Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Feb 1931

Vol. 37 No. 5

Adjournment Debate. - Housing (Gaeltacht) Act Administration.

Mr. T.J. O'Connell

I gave notice that on the motion for the adjournment I would raise a question with regard to the rate of progress made in giving effect to the provisions of the Housing (Gaeltacht) Act. As Deputies will remember, the Act was passed before the Christmas Adjournment of 1929. In all parts of the House there was agreement as to the necessity for it in view of the bad state of housing generally in the areas affected. It was stated by the Minister at the time that the sum of £250,000 would be ear-marked for the purposes of the Act. During February and March of last year tens of thousands of application forms were printed, and a great deal of interest was taken in regard to the Act in the Gaeltacht areas. On this day week I asked a question as to the progress that was being made in putting the provisions of the Act into operation. I was informed that up to 31st January there were 11,520 applications received for grants under it, that the number of inspections made was only 1,508, while the number of applications actually sanctioned was only 369, for which a sum of £34,260 10s. was ear-marked. I also asked the Minister if he could state the number of cases in which the work of building had actually commenced. The Minister was not in a position to answer that, but he did say that in 76 cases sufficient progress had been made to qualify for instalments of the grant, and that the amount so paid out— presumably to the 31st January last— was £2,069.

It was admitted, as I have said, by Deputies in all parts of the House that there was great urgency for this Act. Yet twelve months after its passing we have the statement from the Minister that the actual number of cases in which grants have been paid is only 76, while the total amount of money paid out is only £2,069. There were inspections made in 1,500 cases, so that the remaining 10,000 applicants have got nothing except the usual sheaf of circulars. This Department seems to be almost as prolific in the production of circulars as the Department dealing with the Dáil Loan. The position is that these 10,000 applicants have not had their applications dealt with. An inspector has not visited them. They do not know what is going to happen their applications. In this respect it may be no harm to look back to the debates that took place when the Housing (Gaeltacht) Bill was under discussion here. I find in Vol. 32, column 1632, that Deputy Aiken asked: "Has the Minister any time limit set for the expending of that money?" The Minister for Lands and Fisheries replied: "That is a rather difficult question to answer. I should say, considering all the examinations that will take place, and so on, that it will take three years to expend the whole of the £250,000."

That was the Minister's conservative estimate. Protests were made against the Minister's statement that it should take three years to spend the money. The Minister replied: "I am merely making my own estimate," and later said: "It may be speeded up. As far as we are concerned, it may be taken that we will speed up that work as far as it is humanly possible." In column 1634 of the same volume the Minister is reported to have said: "I hope that a considerable amount of money in connection with the Bill will be spent in this financial year"—that is, the financial year 1929-30. "I cannot give any guarantee that all the money will be spent. So long as I have the feeling that it is being spent wisely, and that we are dealing with the persons with whom I want to deal, the more quickly the money is spent the more I will like it. A sum of £250,000 will be made available by the Government. If we are able to spend it quickly, well and good; but I want to make sure that we are going to touch the persons I have set out to deal with."

[An Leas-Cheann Comhairle took the Chair.]

Mr. T.J. O'Connell

Deputy Davin asked the Minister: "What portion of the estimated cost of £250,000 covering the work which is going to be done will be made available in the estimates for the coming financial year?" The Minister replied: "First of all we will have to look for a Supplementary Estimate before the new Estimates will be considered. Before money will be available in the new financial year there will be a Supplementary Estimate introduced. It will be introduced almost immediately."

I speak subject to correction, but as far as I can discover no Supplementary Estimate was introduced last year to make provision for grants under this Act in the financial year 1929-30. Perhaps it was that they found shortly afterwards that they were not able to spend any money before April, but there was a suggestion that as much money as possible would be spent before April, 1931. In any event, we find in the ordinary estimates for the current year that the sum of £60,000 was set down for the purpose of making grants under this Act, but up to 31st January they had only paid out the sum of £2,000 odd. I am not alleging for a moment that the Minister in making the promise that the work would be speeded up was not sincere in doing so, but I want an explanation from him as to why the administration of the Act has failed, as it undoubtedly has. No one can say that the progress made, as evidenced by the figures supplied to me by the Minister, is anything but utterly disappointing. There is very grave discontent in these particular areas with regard to the whole matter.

Not only has there been delay, but the very fact that this Act was in existence, and that applications were made under it, has prevented many people from taking other steps to erect houses or to take advantage of grants available from other Departments Generally speaking, this Act would be more favourable to them because they would be eligible for bigger grants. At the same time a good many of them would undoubtedly have taken steps before this to provide dwellings under previous Housing Acts or to secure grants from the Land Commission.

It appears to me, on examining the Minister's reply, that the difficulty has arisen on the question of inspection, and that it is there the trouble lies. I agree that it is necessary to examine all the applications carefully, in order that people who are deserving of grants and who fulfil all the conditions necessary, get them, but what is the explanation of the fact that out of 11,500 applications received only 1,508 inspections have been made in nine months? What I believe to be the trouble is that the number of inspectors put on the work is altogether insufficient to cope with it, and that with 1,500 inspections in nine months it is unknown how long it will take before the inspections are made in the 11,520 applications that have been received, in addition to those that will be received this year and next year. At that rate what is the Minister's estimate of the length of time it will take to spend the £250,000 that was to be spent in three years?

This is a very important matter for the areas concerned, and I think that an explanation is due to the House from the Minister, especially in view of the urgency that was said to exist when the Act was passed, and the general agreement there was amongst all Parties that the work was urgent, and should be proceeded with as quickly as possible. Surely there has been a great failure at some stage of the work when we find that such little progress has been made since the Act was passed. I do not need to go into the matter at any great length. I have quoted the particulars that appear in the Minister's answer to my question. They speak for themselves and demand an explanation from the Minister.

Dr. Tubridy

I would like to be associated with Deputy O'Connell in his protest against the manner in which the Housing (Gaeltacht) Act has been administered. I did not quite follow whether the 11,520 applications received included applications for improvements as well as new houses. I know that in the part of the Gaeltacht from which I come the majority of the people have applied for improvements.

Mr. O'Connell

They are included in the figures. The Minister's answer to my question was that the number of applications for assistance received under the Housing (Gaeltacht) Act to 31st January was 11,520.

Dr. Tubridy

I would say that the majority of the applications received from the part of the Gaeltacht from which I come are for improvements. That is because the grant of £80 is not sufficient to enable poor people to build houses. The only people I know who applied for new houses are those who have three or four sons, and who can get assistance in that way. People in the Gaeltacht could not afford to employ labour to build houses on a grant of £80. The very poor only have applied for grants for improvements so as to provide roofs, windows, floors and doors. Out of the 1,500 inspections I have not heard of a single inspection made of a dilapidated house, or of any house where the owner applied for an improvement grant. I was on the island of Gorunna recently, and in the village of Trabane, which was a thriving place when the fishing industry was prosperous, and, as far as I could learn, 30 or 40 of the people had applied for grants for improvements. I was told they had not been visited by any inspector, but that an inspector did visit one or two cases where new houses were required. I imagine when an inspector is sent around to visit forty miles away from his headquarters that it would be quite easy for him to inspect all the applicants in that particular village. It should not be necessary for him to go forty miles and come back forty miles, and then to take another car in a week's time to inspect another house in the same village. I do not see why an inspector, when he goes out to an isolated village in the Gaeltacht, should not do all the visits in one day. It may be necessary to appoint additional inspectors, but at the same time if the inspectors were told to hurry up the work, and if they were given a certain time to do a certain amount of inspection, they could do a lot more than they are doing. I know in that portion of South Connemara in which I reside a few houses have been built, but in the vast majority in which they have been looking for improvement grants nothing at all has been done and people are beginning to think that the housing scheme is going to fall through. I have had some trouble in explaining to them that eventually they will get inspection, but if they were given some encouragement they could get on with the work.

Mr. Cassidy

In the reply which was given to Deputy O'Connell by the Minister for Lands and Fisheries it was pointed out that approximately 11,500 applications have been made under the Gaeltacht Housing Act, and although a year or nine months have elapsed since that particular Act has been passed by the Oireachtas, the Minister admitted that approximately only 1,000 inspections have taken place since that time. On 26th November last I had a somewhat similar question addressed to the Minister for Lands and Fisheries, and, as far as Donegal was concerned, on that particular occasion the Minister pointed out that 1,905 applications had been made there for grants under the Gaeltacht Act. I presume that number has now increased to over 2,000. On the day I raised that question the Minister pointed out that as far as he was aware no houses had been erected under that particular Act in County Donegal. When the question was put, how many houses were in the course of construction, he was not able to give me an answer. As far as the Donegal Gaeltacht is concerned, the people believe there is a great necessity for the Minister's Department to introduce some Yankee hustle into this scheme in order that houses may be built in the Gaeltacht. It is needless to point out to the Minister the great necessity for erecting additional houses as far as the Gaeltacht area is concerned. I think his Department should understand that without any Deputy endeavouring to impress it on them. I would appeal to the Minister to speed up this machinery as far as this particular Act is concerned. The necessity for the houses is there. Applications have been put in. Money has been provided by the Oireachtas, and the only thing that is holding the thing up is the slow motion as far as the Minister's Department is concerned. I appeal to the Minister to speed the matter up so that additional houses should be provided, not only in Donegal, but in other parts of the country.

Minister for Lands and Fisheries (Mr. F. Lynch)

I may say that the greater portion of the delay that has been complained of occurred during the earlier months. There was considerable difficulty in recruiting the type of staff required for this particular job. Not only had the man to have technical knowledge, but he would have been rather useless unless he was able to conduct his business in Irish. Portion of his inspection would have been as to whether or not Irish was the normal spoken language of the household. The inspector, therefore, would have to find out whether that was so. I may say on one occasion, when we were looking for six inspectors, the board set up by the Civil Service Commissioners were only able to supply us with two. Of all the candidates who appeared before the selection board only two had both the necessary technical qualifications and the qualifications in Irish. Therefore considerable delay prevailed at the start.

Now that has been radically changed in recent months. We have now recruited a staff of ten inspectors or assistant-inspectors. The position as given to Deputy O'Connell in the answer last week was that on 31st January last there were 11,520 applications. Of these 377 were immediately declared ineligible because they came from areas outside the scheduled Gaeltacht area. Of the 1,508 cases which have been reported on he was told in reply to a question last week that 369 applications had been approved; 135 others have been deferred because Irish was not the home language. That is why they have been postponed for a time for further consideration to see if the condition of the language in the household changes. A further 96 were found to be ineligible on various grounds. Forty were withdrawn and 863 are at the moment under examination at headquarters or elsewhere. By "elsewhere" I mean either the Land Commission or the Local Government Department. We have to inquire before giving a grant or loan whether the Land Commission may not have some re-settlement scheme for the particular area which would qualify our attitude towards giving a grant or loan. In the same way, we have to find out from the Local Government Department whether or not a grant had been made under the Housing Acts. Eight hundred and sixty-three cases are in that position, under examination in my own office or in either of these two offices. There are at the moment a further 1,865 cases in the hands of the inspectors for report. The files are with the various inspectors in the different Gaeltacht areas. Reports are coming in at the rate of something between 400 and 500 per month. I can give you the figures for each month from September last. Up to the end of August only 98 cases had been reported on, but during September, 150 cases were reported on; October, 135; November, 216; December, 465; January, 439. We expect that about 450 will be maintained for each month for the future. In addition to the 10 inspectors or their assistants we have six gangers employed for the purpose of advising the handymen who are engaged, with a view to avoiding any serious faults in the construction of the houses.

I might say that the ten inspectors are distributed as follows:—One in County Donegal; three in County Mayo; four between County Galway, the Arran Islands and Clare, and two between the Counties Cork and Kerry. We have applied for one additional inspector, who is to be allocated to County Donegal. Their services will only be retained until the Department is satisfied that the existing handymen or the new men coming into that type of job are fully competent. It is anticipated that sanction will have been given this summer for as many houses as there will be skilled labourers available to build in the Gaeltacht. I think that the present speeding up meets the case. While I agree that there was, perhaps, undue slowness at the start, that is the period from about March or April last year until September, since that period I think there has been sufficient speeding up, and in recent months the number of reports having been brought up to between 400 and 500, I think it is sufficiently fast. By the summer we hope to have as many sanctions as as there will be skilled labour available for construction.

I might mention, of course, that preferential attention is being given to those areas in the Gaeltacht where Irish is the ordinary spoken language of the people. You will remember that three-fifths of the money is allotted to those areas where the valuation divided by the population amounts to one guinea.

Mr. O'Connell

Does that mean that there will be no expenditure out of the two-fifths share until that is used?

Mr. Lynch

No. While we are concentrating particularly in the areas where the three-fifths will be allotted, the others are also being attended to. Where the housing conditions are particularly bad they are being attended to.

Mr. O'Connell

Concurrently?

Mr. Lynch

Yes, concurrently.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.50 p.m. until 3 p.m. Thursday, 26th February.