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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 30 Apr 1931

Vol. 38 No. 5

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 42—Dundrum Asylum.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £9,116 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1932, chun Costaisí Coinneáil-suas Geilteanna Cuirpthe i nGealtlainn Dúndroma.

That a sum not exceeding £9,116 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1932, for the Expenses of the Maintenance of Criminal Lunatics in the Dundrum Asylum.

There are at present in Dundrum 115 patients—96 males and 19 females. The cost of Dundrum, so far as it is provided here, is £128 per patient. This cost is comparable with the cost of prisoners. The lower the number of inmates the higher the cost. In Mountjoy there were 270 prisoners in 1929. The cost per head was £107 7s. 0d.; in Sligo, 42 prisoners, the cost per head £127 5s. 10d.; Waterford, 31 prisoners, cost per head £137 4s. 5d.

At present there is not very much to be said on this Estimate, but it has occurred to me that perhaps it might be considered a good thing to take the inmates of this institution and ask some authority like the Grangegorman Mental Asylum Committee to take them over and keep them, as they have to keep some of their patients, in a place apart. I do not know whether the Grangegorman Committee would be willing to do that or not. I do not know even — I have not given much consideration to the matter— whether it would be a wise policy or not, but I suggest it to the Minister as something that might get consideration. As he has just said, the smaller the number of patients the higher the cost per head. £128 per head for the upkeep of these patients is a high figure. There are 58 officials for 115 patients. That means two patients for each official, practically. That is out of all proportion.

It is a good thing we have not more of these patients, and in all probability cases of this kind will be growing less. I would however put it to the Minister that it is worthy of consideration to ask a body like the Grangegorman Mental Hospital Committee whether they would not take these patients over. After all, although they are criminal lunatics, they are criminal because they are lunatics. There are in some asylums other than this criminal lunatic asylum patients who are dangerous lunatics, and who have to be segregated. Perhaps it would be possible to segregate the patients in this institution with similar patients in an institution like Grangegorman, thereby saving a considerable amount of money to the taxpayers.

I observe under subhead C a sum of £554 for uniform clothing for patients etc. Could the Minister give an assurance that that clothing will be of Irish manufacture and that when advertisements are inserted for tenders a stipulation is made that only Irish manufactured tweeds, for instance, should be tendered for?

I should like to draw the attention of the Minister to the situation arising out of the transfer of certain criminal lunatics from Dundrum Asylum to Grangegorman Mental Hospital. I am sure the Minister is aware that when a person is sent to Dundrum as a criminal lunatic for a certain period, and during that period the Dundrum authorities do not think the person sufficiently dangerous to be kept under strict observation, and therefore kept in Dundrum Asylum, he is transferred to Grangegorman, and the Department of Justice pay for him there. But when the good conduct period is taken off, and his term expires, the upkeep of that man falls on the Dublin rates. Where such patients are transferred in this way the Minister should see that at least the period taken off for good conduct should be paid for by the Department of Justice, and not thrown on the Dublin rates.

I have had the point that Deputy O'Kelly makes in mind for some time and, without having come to a definite conclusion in the matter, I might say I would like to come to such an arrangement as he suggests, and the matter will be further gone into. I would be surprised if in getting clothing for Dundrum Asylum Irish manufacture was not procured. As far as tweeds are concerned, I imagine that there is hardly any necessity to specify for Irish manufacture, because Irish manufactured tweed ought to be much better and cheaper than any other tweed we can get.

And more fashionable.

As to the point Deputy Briscoe makes, I expect the Minister for Justice is operating within his statutory powers, but I shall ask him to look into the question. I doubt if in consideration of the rates he can make any change in his regulations. However, I shall ask him to consider the matter.

I am glad the Minister is going to do that. If these criminal lunatics were citizens of Dublin, or belonging to the area of charge for the Grangegorman Mental Hospital, the question would not arise, but most of those lunatics are from outside areas.

I imagine that that is a matter the Grangegorman authorities should look into, and make representations to the Minister for Justice, so that he will be aware of the extent of the problem and will not be dealing with it in a hypothetical way.

Can I take it that if the Grangegorman authorities do make representations to the Minister for Justice, they will have the sympathy and support of the Minister for Local Government?

I do not think the Deputy should ask me to prejudge the matter.

If the Minister finds that what I say is a fact, and representations are made on that basis, I take it that as the Minister for Local Government, in the interests of the borough of Dublin, he will see that our case is met.

Even as a representative of the City of Dublin, I would not undertake to prejudge the matter.

I am not asking the Minister to prejudge the matter, but if he finds what I say is correct, that he should then support the case.

Question put and agreed to.
The Dáil went out of Committee.
Progress reported; Committee to sit again to-morrow.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until Friday, 1st May.
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