I have already moved this motion.
Application for Private Bill. - Trade Agreement With South Africa—Motion of Approval.
The motion is:—
That the Dáil approves of the Trade Agreement between the Irish Free State and the Union of South Africa signed at Ottawa on the 20th day of August, 1932, the text of which is contained in the Report of the Imperial Economic Conference held at Ottawa, 1932 (Supplementary Volume), laid on the Table of the Dáil on the 28th day of November, 1932, and recommends the Executive Council to take the necessary steps to ratify the said Agreement.
Deputies are, I am sure, already familiar with the terms of this treaty which it is proposed to ratify. In accordance with its terms, the Union of South Africa contracts to give to the Government of the Irish Free State preferential treatment in respect of hosiery of all sorts, tractors and parts, and stout. The Irish Free State contracts to give to the Union of South Africa preferences on currants, raisins, and other dried fruits, canned fruits, wine not exceeding 30 degrees proof spirit, wine exceeding 30 but not exceeding 40 degrees of proof spirit, sparkling wine in bottle, still wine in bottle and maize meal. The position concerning the various duties set out in the schedule of the agreement is as follows: The duty in South Africa upon hosiery, including socks, stockings and underwear, is 15 per cent. There is a duty of 20 per cent. upon jerseys and pullovers. There is a preference of five per cent. given to Great Britain and to Canada on socks and stockings. That preference was not heretofore allowed in respect of goods of Irish Free State origin. The result of the concession in that respect, therefore, is to give to hosiery of Free State origin a preference not heretofore enjoyed.
So far as tractors are concerned, there is at present no preferential duty applicable to tractors entering the Union of South Africa. The effect of the treaty will be to establish a preferential rate of 10 per cent. in favour of such articles produced in the Saorstát. As regards stout, the existing duty on stout entering the Union of South Africa exceeding 30 degrees of proof spirit is 2/3 per gallon, with no preferential rate. The effect of the treaty is to secure, for the first time, a preferential rate of 1/9 per gallon.
The preferences which the Free State contracts under this agreement to give to South African produce involve no change in our tariff schedule. These preferences have, in fact, been given heretofore and it is the intention to continue them. In respect of maize meal, the duty at present imposed will cease to operate when the Cereals Bill, now before the Dáil in its final stage, becomes law. That Bill imposes a prohibition upon maize meal imports except under licence. It is intended, however, that the Bill will be operated in accordance with the spirit of this agreement.
It is not easy to give any precise figures concerning the volume of trade with South Africa, either outwards or inwards. The figures contained in our trade statistics relate only to goods consigned direct to South African ports or which reach here direct from South Africa. It is reasonable to assume that there are considerable quantities of goods passing both ways which are consigned through Great Britain. The figures available in the trade and shipping statistics can be taken as representing the minimum amount of trade. The actual trade in each case is probably larger, although only estimated figures could be given. It is our opinion that any reliable estimate would show a substantial balance of trade in favour of South Africa and I think that that is generally agreed. I recommend, accordingly, that this resolution be adopted and that the Executive Council be given authority to ratify this treaty.
This agreement represents one of the two advantages derived from the Ottawa Pilgrimage, which, I suppose, is the proper term to apply to it. The previous agreement was with Canada. So far as this agreement is concerned, we are getting three concessions and, according to the Minister, we are giving nothing more that has been given up to date. We should like to have heard from the Minister what prospect there was of any trade in connection with the three items mentioned in Schedule No. 1. The Minister said that the trade between South Africa and this State was substantially in favour of South Africa. It would seem to be advisable, therefore, to secure some rectification of that balance against us. South Africa is a rather useful country, having regard to some of the pronouncements we have heard from the opposite benches. They are still—or they were up to a short time ago— dealing in gold ounces and they have considerable quantities of gold available out there. Taking this as the other leg of the Ottawa concessions, very little advantage was derived in respect of that important conference. If it were possible to develop our trade with South Africa, much good would ensue. I do not know whether they are importing at present any number of tractors. I am not at all sure that the tractors they are importing are coming from here. I did not gather from the Minister whether or not there had been a prohibition against the import of tractors. He stated that this was the first preferential duty in respect of them. As regards hosiery, I presume that, with the high quality of the manufactures of this country, we ought to be able to develop our trade there. From what the Minister has said, I take it that we have given to South Africa a continuance of the preferences in existence at the moment and that there is no advantage to them beyond that, while we have got something which we had not had before in respect of these three items. When one looks through the report and sees the very big list of articles in respect of which advantages have been given and exchanged amongst the various countries engaged at the Ottawa Conference, one is not inclined to be very enthusiastic about what we are getting out of it.
In reply to what Deputy Cosgrave has said, I merely wish to express the opinion that he is not likely to be enthusiastic about anything that this Government does.
That is quite true.
It is not correct to say that all the advantages under this treaty have been secured by us. The continuance of these preferences in respect of South African goods is of advantage to South Africa. The fact that these preferences were given voluntarily heretofore is no guarantee that they would be continued voluntarily in the future. On the contrary, we must, in the present state of world trade, come definitely to the conclusion that we will only give advantages where we get advantages in return. We think that the advantages in this case balance fairly well and that, in any event, the treaty serves as a basis on which additional arrangements can be built. I think I can say that the Government of the Union of South Africa is quite willing to consider at any time proposals for facilitating trade between both countries, to their mutual advantage. I have no doubt whatever that if developments should necessitate it, representations made with a view to giving or receiving additional preferences will be very sympathetically received without confining consideration to the sole point of the advantage likely to be secured by one country as against the other. On the general question of the Ottawa pilgrimage, I have merely to advise the Deputy that there may be advantages not as obvious as the two trade treaties and that the materialistic aspect from which he regards the whole business is one that should be persisted in with great caution.
With regard to maize meal the Minister said that the Cereals Bill is to be administered in accordance with the spirit of this agreement. Can he explain further what he meant?
When the Cereals Bill becomes law the duty at present operating upon maize meal will probably be repealed and after that date maize meal can only be imported under licence. The intention to operate the policy of issuing licences so as to give preference to South African maize meal if, in fact, South African maize meal is available for import.
Question put and agreed to.