Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Mar 1935

Vol. 55 No. 11

Secondary Teachers' Superannuation (Amendment) Scheme, 1935.

Minister for Education (Tomás O Deirg)

Tairgim:—

Go ndaingnítear Scéim Aois-Liúntais na Meán - Mhúinteoirí (Leasú), 1935, do rinne an tAire Oideachais le toiliú an Aire Airgid fé Acht Aois-Liúntais na Múinteoirí, 1928 (Uimh. 32 de 1908).

That the Secondary Teachers` Superannuation (Amendment) Scheme, 1935, made by the Minister for Education with the consent of the Minister for Finance under the Teachers' Superannuation Act, 1928 (No. 32 of 1928), be confirmed.

Fén bPrímh-Scéim d'fhéadfadh Múinteoir Náisiúnta do raghadh le Meán-Mhúinteoireacht d'fhéadfadh sé, ar dhul isteach do i Scéim Aois-Liúntais na Meán-Mhúinteoirí, na prémiumacha do bhí íoctha aige le Ciste Pinsin na Múinteoirí Náisiúnta d'aistriú chun Scéime Pinsean na Meán-Mhúinteoirí, agus ansan déanfaí a sheirbhís mar Mhúinteoir Náisiúnta d'áireamh mar sheirbhís inphinsin fé Scéim na Meán-Mhúinteoirí.

Tá Scéim Aois-Liúntais na Múinteoirí Náisiúnta, 1934, do cuireadh deireadh le prémiumacha pinsin agus níorbh fholáir socrú éigin eile do dhéanamh le haghaidh Múinteora Náisiúnta gur mian leis a sheirbhís do bheith ina seirbhís inphinsin fé Scéim na Meán-Mhúinteoirí. Deineann an Scéim leasuitheach seo an socrú san. Is féidir leis an múinteoir fen Séim seo a éileamh ar an Aire suim is ionann agus 4 per cent. dá thuarastal inphinsin mar Mhúinteoir Náisiúnta in aghaidh seirbhíse tar éis an 31adh Márta, 1934, d'íoc isteach i gCiste na Meán-Mhúinteoirí agus ansan, beidh an tseirbhís sin ina seirbhís inphinsin fé Scéim na Meán-Mhúinteoirí.

The object of this scheme is to enable national teachers who become secondary teachers to get credit for their service as primary teachers by transferring to the Secondary Teachers' Superannuation Fund amounts corresponding to the premiums which formerly they were entitled to transfer from the National Teachers' Pension Fund to the Secondary Teachers' Pension Fund. On account of the fact that last year an end was put to the contributions as such from the national teachers to their pensions, there are now no contributions and this scheme gives power to teachers who had been national teachers but who become secondary teachers to ask the Minister for Finance to transfer to the Secondary Teachers' Superannuation Fund proportions of their salaries from the 31st March, 1934, equivalent to their former pension contribution, that is to say, 4 per cent. In other words, the object of the scheme is to make certain adjustments consequent on the fact that there are now no pension contributions as such chargeable to national teachers. The scheme deals only with this single matter of adjustment necessary to enable national teachers who become secondary teachers to get credit for their services as national teachers. The adjustments necessary are mentioned in paragraph 5 of this scheme chiefly.

Professor Thrift

May I ask the Minister a question? Is it right to assume that if a change had not taken place last year as to the contributions from the national teachers to the Pension Fund, those proposed changes now would put the national teachers who would become secondary teachers in exactly the same position as before?

Mr. Derrig

Yes, I think that is substantially the case. There may be minor matters. For example, the operation of the scheme has taken into account that rather hypothetical circumstance in which the teacher might have left the service, or the teacher might have left the service twice and re-entered as a secondary teacher. It is in order to cover these exceptional circumstances that the scheme is framed as it is. I think Deputy Thrift has summarised the position. The national teachers will be in exactly the same position as they were before the new superannuation scheme was introduced.

Mr. Dillon

Will this scheme have any effect on the junior assistant mistresses who until recently had no pensionable rights? I understand that they have now pensionable rights. In the event of their taking up secondary teaching will the entire period of their service as junior assistant mistresses count, or will that period which elapsed between the time when they were made pensionable and the end of their period as junior assistant mistresses be the only time that will be taken into consideration?

Mr. Derrig

The position of junior assistant mistresses is regulated under the national teachers' superannuation scheme published last year. If junior assistant mistresses have already transferred to the secondary branch and are teaching as secondary teachers, their cases are covered. In my opinion, it is extremely unlikely that junior assistant mistresses would be qualified to become secondary teachers. One has to be registered and to have put in a certain number of years' service as a secondary teacher before one can become registered. I should be greatly surprised if there are cases of junior assistant mistresses who are able to transfer without improving their qualifications very considerably. I shall look into the matter. I think the case is extremely unlikely to occur on account of the lack of qualifications of junior assistant mistresses.

General Mulcahy

I should like to ask the Minister whether this scheme is intended to be an inducement to national teachers to transfer to secondary teaching and whether the Minister is taking any active steps to induce national teachers to transfer to secondary teaching? The matter is important.

Mr. Good

To remove the bar.

General Mulcahy

If it is a bar, I think there is a special problem that might be assisted by a transfer from national teaching to secondary teaching. The Minister, I think, is aware that primary teachers only get any kind of systematic training through the medium of Irish, and that some systematic steps have been arranged for the training of primary teachers now, so that the primary school programme can be thoroughly taught in future through the medium of Irish. On the secondary side, there is a lamentable absence of any provision at all of that kind. The material for the secondary schools teaching, I take it, comes from the University where they go through the usual University course, taking Irish as a subject, but arrangements for the training of the teaching material for secondary schools to teach through the medium of Irish do not exist at all, so that if the present scheme was going to be an inducement to a certain number of national school teachers to transfer, I think it would materially assist in improving the position with regard to teaching through the medium of Irish in the secondary schools. If, as Deputy Thrift suggests, the effect is going to be the reverse, I think it is unfortunate.

Mr. Derrig

The position is that under the original scheme of 1929 special provision was made in Clause 16 in relation to former national teachers who subsequently became secondary teachers, and the sole object of the changes in the scheme I am now proposing to the House is to adapt these provisions to the new circumstances, in which pension contributions are no longer payable as such. With regard to the other point which Deputy Mulcahy raised, I do not think it is quite relevant to the matter on hands. I do not think this will be an inducement to national teachers to become secondary teachers. It is an entirely different class of work and most national teachers would, I think, prefer to remain in the branch of the profession for which they have been trained and of which they have experience.

The matter of the provision of persons competent to teach through Irish in the secondary schools is, I think, a matter which does not belong to my province. It concerns the Universities, in the first instance, and, in the second instance, in relation to registered secondary teachers, it concerns the Registration Council. I think the Registration Council have had their attention called to the matter by representatives of the Department of Education, and as regards the Universities the Deputy might be able to persuade them to improve their courses in such a way that Irish will at least be placed on the same basis as modern continental languages.

General Mulcahy

The matter may not be relevant but I should not like to allow the Minister's remark to pass without saying that I consider that he ought to assume a very great responsibility for seeing that there is proper provision of secondary school teachers who are competent to teach through the medium of Irish.

Resolution put and agreed to.