I move that this Bill be now read a Second Time. In doing so, I think it desirable that the Dáil should understand that this Bill is one of a number which will be introduced for the purpose of regulating the conditions of employment in various occupations. It was originally intended to introduce a measure relating to employment in factories and workshops which would not merely cover conditions of employment but also effect a codification and improvement of the existing Factories and Workshops Code. It was found, however, that the preparation of such a measure would take a considerable time, and I considered it desirable to proceed at once with that portion of the proposals which is dealt with in this Bill and to leave until later the portion dealing with the codification of the Factories and Workshops Code. That second Bill, I think, will be ready in time for introduction during the present session of the Dáil, although it is not possible to say that definitely, having regard to the very complicated nature of the Bill and the possibility of difficulties in drafting arising.
Furthermore, Bills are being prepared to effect, in relation to persons employed in commercial occupations— that is, in shops and so forth—provisions similar to those which are proposed to be enacted by this Bill in relation to persons employed in factories and workshops. Arising out of the report of the Commission on the Registration of Shops, certain legislative proposals for the regulation of retail trading are also under consideration. As I informed the Dáil, in answer to a Parliamentary Question this week, a Bill, which it was originally intended should be part of the first measure to be introduced but which, for legal reasons, has to be introduced separately, for bringing the law of this State into conformity with the International Convention for the abolition of night work in bakeries, has also been prepared and will be introduced shortly.
This Bill does not cover employment in mines, because, in the existing code of laws, mines have been dealt with separately from factories and workshops and, for legal reasons, whatever provisions it is desirable to introduce in respect of employment in mines, must also be dealt with in a separate Bill. A decision on a legislative provision of that kind, which can be introduced, has been deferred pending a meeting of the International Labour Convention at Geneva next month, when the Convention concerning employment in coal mines is being brought forward for revision. We will have to take into account the decision made there in considering the introduction of legislation here.
The whole purpose of the series of measures which we propose is to institute in relation to all occupations, where undesirable exploitation of labour might occur, machinery for the regulation of working conditions, which will prevent abuses, and which will enable the State to exercise a general supervision over these conditions of employment. It is recognised in all countries at the present time that it is necessary to have such legislation, and that the State must exercise the function of maintaining supervision over conditions in which its citizens are employed. There are very few countries which have yet adopted legislation of the nature now under consideration here, although progress in that direction has been made in various European Parliaments. I do not know whether any Deputy will seriously question the necessity for legislation of this kind. It is now generally agreed that, in modern conditions, the employment of workers and their remuneration cannot be left to be determined solely by the laws of supply in demand. The great development in industrial employment that has taken place in the past 50 years throughout the world, and that is now taking place here, is bound to produce certain undesirable conditions, if State action is not taken to prevent them.
Neither do I think it possible to contemplate conditions of employment and the remuneration of labour being regulated solely by trade union action. The effectiveness of trade unions to deal properly with these matters is limited, and that is particularly so in this country at present, where we have in relation to many classes of workers, rival unions seeking these workers as members; where, I think, it is the general experience of all trade unions that where rival unions operate in relation to any class of workers, trade union organisation deteriorates, the number of workers which belongs to neither union increases considerably, and the power of the trade union movement to secure improvement in working conditions in agreement with employers is naturally lessened. That situation exists here as well as in other countries, and it is of such a nature for us, and it exists to such an extent, that we could not possibly contemplate leaving conditions of employment in workshops and factories unregulated by the State or not subject to State supervision, in the hope that in time the abuses would be eliminated by trade union action only. There are in this country, and in every country, employers who will seek to secure competitive advantages over their rivals by employing workers for longer hours, less wages, or in less satisfactory conditions than others. The effect of such action by any one employer in an industry is generally to reduce the working conditions of all branches of that industry, because in modern life, with the considerable competition for markets which exists between employers in all competitive trades, no employer can for a long time succeed if he maintains a higher standard of working conditions, a higher rate of wages, or shorter hours than other employers with whom he is in competition. The fact is therefore beyond question, that the worst employer very nearly set the standard of employment in the industry in which he is engaged. That is another reason why it is necessary that the State should be in a position to intervene to prevent any progressive deterioration in working conditions in any industry, in consequence of the desire of a particular employer to secure a greater share of the market at the expense of his competitors and workers.
The main provisions of the Bill are few in number, and can be easily understood by any Deputy who has read them. It is proposed to fix in relation to the class of workers covered by the Bill as maximum hours of work those set out in the Washington Hours Convention. It is true that for the great majority of workers in industry here that part of the measure is not going to make any change. The 48 hours week is generally recognised in industry, and other provisions of the Washington Hours Convention are, in fact, in operation amongst all good employers in all parts of the country. There are certain trades which have not yet adopted the 48 hours week as provided for in the Washington Hours Convention, and, in so far as these trades are concerned, the Bill will automatically operate to produce a reduction in working hours. The Washington Hours Convention provides for the maximum 48 hours per week in industries which are worked in the day time only, and for the maximum 56 hours per week in continuous process industries; that is, industries which must be operated continuously and in respect to which the shift system operates.
We go further than the Washington Hours Convention in the automatic fixation of maximum hours of work, in providing that for juveniles the maximum working week will be one of 40 hours. I will deal with that at more length later. I merely draw attention to it now in order to make it clear that, whereas the main body of the Bill is based on the Washington Hours Convention, in that one respect we propose to go further than was proposed in that convention. However, in order to prevent misunderstanding it is necessary to make it clear that in fixing these maximum hours of work for industry we are not, at the same time, expressing the opinion that for all industries these maximum hours are suitable. It is necessary that Deputies should clearly understand that, in that respect, the Bill is fixing what we regard to be the minimum conditions, and it is proposed to take power in relation to any particular industry to make regulations providing for a shorter working week, after consultation with those who are engaged in that industry, whether as employers or employees. There are, in fact, some industries at the present time where the normal working week is less than 48 hours. A recent agreement made between the wholesale clothing manufacturers and the trade unions catering for their workers provided for a normal week of 44 hours.
A 44-hour week has been instituted in other industries by agreement between employers and employees already. There is no necessity to amend these agreements in consequence of the passing of this measure. In fact, it is not improbable that immediately upon the passage of this measure arrangements will be made to bring into consultation in accordance with the Bill the representatives of workers and employers in a number of industries with a view to having arrangements made for the enactment of regulations prescribing a shorter week than 48 hours in respect of these industries. Certain people who have expressed their views in the press upon this Bill have urged that the Bill should provide automatically in general for a shorter working week than a 48-hour week. I do not think anybody could possibly contemplate the introduction of a shorter week than a 48-hour week for a general application, without first having a full and complete examination of the effect of the change upon particular industries. The effect may be serious upon some industries; it may be negligible upon others. The procedure, therefore, proposed in the Bill is to provide for the examination of conditions of each industry by representatives of the Department of Industry and Commerce in consultation with representatives of employers and employees before any regulations are made so that the temporary or permanent circumstances of each industry may be fully considered before any change in working hours is proposed. I refer to temporary as well as permanent circumstances because there are obviously factors operating at the present time in relation to certain industries which may make it undesirable, if not impracticable, to effect a reduction of working hours. If there is an industry which is protected by Customs duty or Quota Orders, but which is not quite able to supply the full requirements of the country in the goods produced by it even when operated to the full limit of its existing productive capacity, then it is clear that any reduction in working hours would only have the result of increasing the importation of such goods until new equipment had been installed or until new workers had been trained. That shows in some cases what may be the effect of the reduction in normal working hours. Similarly there are other industries in respect of which that precise set of circumstances might not operate but where other circumstances such as a deficiency in the number of skilled workers and temporary difficulties on the part of employers in finding the capital involved for the purchase of new equipment, would suggest to us to institute any change in the working hours gradually rather than in a drastic manner. We would also have to consider the effect of a change in working hours in one industry upon another industry in such cases where the product of one industry was the raw material of another.
The International Labour Conference in Geneva met last year to consider the adoption of a 40-hours working week as a solution of the unemployment problem. I would like to make it clear that in putting forward proposals for a reduction of working hours I am not doing so primarily because of its effect on unemployment, but because it is desirable. It is a desirable social change which modern circumstances permit us to effect. It has not been fully established in relation to industries that a general reduction in the working week would increase employment. There are many factors which might operate in a contrary direction. One very well known firm of manufacturing druggists and chemists in Great Britain instituted a 40-hour week for their employees some time ago. They at the same time carried out a rationalisation scheme and made changes in their method of production. After a time the results were examined by a committee of experts. I had an opportunity of reading a report of the persons who examined the conditions and the results. They found that the reduction in working hours plus the rationalisation scheme operated so as to increase the output per individual worker so that they were able to maintain a much higher output on shorter hours than previously when working in longer hours with the same number of workers. If the market for that firm's goods had not expanded so as to absorb the increased production, the reduction of working hours might well have resulted in a reduction in the number of persons employed. When one considers the matter from a general view-point it appears that a reduction in hours not accompanied by a reduction in individual earnings need not necessarily increase the general consumption of goods. Unless there is an increase in the general consumption of goods there will not be any substantial effect upon the volume of employment consequent on the reduction of working hours. The Americans have been experimenting on this matter for some time past. From the reports to the International Labour Office at Geneva as to the operation of the industrial codes brought into effect it appears that while they secured an increase in the employment in the industries subject to these codes and an increase in payrolls they have not succeeded in securing an increase in production. These increases took place while production was decreasing.
The conclusion which one might draw from that fact was that the operation of the codes has not had the effect upon the general prosperity of the nation which was at first anticipated because the case for the reduction of working hours was that by increasing employment and consequently increasing the purchasing power of the workers there would be a general stimulation of trade and that more purchases would take place and that this would be reflected in the production of the factories and the employment in the general industries.
It is, however, unwise to draw any general conclusion from facts of that kind, because other factors were operating which may have had effects upon the general prosperity and the total consumption of goods of which we are not aware, and of which no single individual could attempt to give a precise account. In any event I am quite satisfied that in proceeding towards a reduction of working hours on the lines proposed in this Bill, we are proceeding along the best lines and, incidentally, the lines along which the International Labour Conference at Geneva now appears inclined to move. The draft convention proposed at Geneva last year provided for a general reduction of working hours, but it did not get the necessary majority there to enable it to be brought forward to another stage. In fact, only eight or nine Governments, including the Free State Government, supported the adoption of such a convention. Even amongst these Governments I do not think there was complete unanimity as to whether a reduction of working hours should take place without a reduction in individual earnings or with a reduction in individual earnings. But this year, it seems clear that the drive at Geneva will be in the direction of having an international agreement made to effect a reduction of working hours, not over industry generally, but over named particular industries, the facts of which are fairly well known, and are common to all countries.
A general reduction of working hours accompanied by other measures will, of course, in due course produce an improvement in the employment situation. But I want to make it clear that I am not banking upon any such policy as a solution of our unemployment problem. It will help us towards a solution of that problem, but it will not by itself solve it. The main argument in support of that reduction is that it will improve the working conditions of persons employed in industry. It will enable them to share in the benefit of technical improvements. It will prevent the full benefit from any technical development going to the employers in an industry. It will permit us to secure that the workers will also share by a reduction of their hours of labour and an increase in their leisure. In doing that, we will, of course, be able to secure to some extent that future technical developments will not be immediately accompanied by a reduction in employment, as they have been in the past. In that respect, it does also help us to deal with our unemployment situation.
The Bill proposes that where any reduction in working hours takes place, either in consequence of the general provisions of the measure, which apply automatically to all industries, or because of special regulations made to govern working conditions in a particular industry, there shall not be any reduction in the weekly earnings of the workers concerned. That is a somewhat difficult provision to frame in a form which will be watertight.