Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Mar 1936

Vol. 60 No. 14

Dublin Fever Hospital Bill, 1936—Second Stage.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health (Dr. Ward)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." This Bill is intended to implement an agreement arrived at between the Corporation of Dublin, the Dublin Board of Public Health and the trustees of the House of Recovery and Fever Hospital, Cork Street, Dublin, with a view to the provision of improved institutional accommodation for cases of infectious disease occurring in Dublin City and County. The principal institution at present available for the treatment of such patients is the Cork Street Fever Hospital, founded about 130 years ago, and which is under the control of a voluntary association incorporated by charter in 1903 under the name of the House of Recovery and Fever Hospital, Cork Street, Dublin. This institution contains about 250 beds. A convalescent home situated at Beneavin, Finglas, County Dublin, is owned by the same body. There are also beds for cases of infectious disease available in Clonskeagh Fever Hospital and in several of the general hospitals in Dublin City.

Recent epidemics of diphtheria and scarlet fever in Dublin City and portions of Dublin County have demonstrated that the existing institutional accommodation for dealing with cases of infectious disease in these areas is inadequate. A grant has already been made available from sweepstakes funds for the extension of the Cork Street Fever Hospital, but it is not possible to provide any further suitable accommodation for the purpose on the site of the present institution, and the continuance of a fever hospital in the midst of a densely populated area is open to serious objection. It is, therefore, necessary to obtain a new site and it is deemed desirable that the proposed new institution should provide sufficient facilities for the treatment of all cases of infectious disease occurring in Dublin City and County so as to obviate the present objectionable arrangement under which such patients are dealt with in several institutions, and are received into hospitals in which other non-infectious cases are treated.

Moreover, as the great majority of the patients dealt with in Cork Street Fever Hospital are paid for by the Dublin Corporation and the board of public health, it is obvious that these authorities should be represented on the governing board of the fever hospital which is to serve their administrative areas. The grant already made from sweepstakes funds to the trustees of the Cork Street Fever Hospital will be made available in respect of the expenditure involved in the provision of the new hospital. The chargeability of the cost of administering the new institution has also been agreed upon. The annual establishment expenses will be payable by the Dublin Corporation and the board of public health in the proportion of the respective valuations of the City and County of Dublin, while the patients' expenses will be defrayed by the sanitary authority of the area in which the patients have resided before being sent to the institution. I will now give a general summary of the provisions of the Bill.

Part I of the Bill contains the title and definition clauses, and authorises the fixing of an appointed day on which these provisions shall come into force. Arrangements are provided for the election of representatives of the trustees administering the present fever hospital to the proposed Dublin Fever Hospital Board. The usual powers are given to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health to hold sworn inquiries and to incur necessary expenditure in connection with the exercise of his functions under the Bill.

Part II of the Bill authorises the establishment on the appointed day of a board entitled the Dublin Fever Hospital Board to administer the existing fever hospital at Cork Street, Dublin, and the convalescent home at Beneavin, Finglas, and to establish and maintain a new fever hospital in due course. This board is to consist of 20 members, comprising seven representatives of the Dublin Corporation, three representatives of the Dublin Board of Public Health, seven representatives of the corporate body at present administering the Cork Street Fever Hospital and three representatives appointed by the Minister for Local Government and Public Health.

The Bill sets out the arrangements for election of these various representatives and deals with their tenure of office and the procedure to be observed in carrying out the business of the hospital board. It is prescribed that a resident medical superintendent shall be appointed by the board who shall be responsible for the internal administration of the hospital and convalescent home, but who shall in the performance of his duties carry out any directions given by the medical superintendent officer of health of Dublin City. The hospital board are further authorised to appoint and remove officers where necessary, subject to the approval of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health and the necessary enactments for dealing with such officers are applied.

Authority is given to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health to make rules governing the discharge of patients from the fever hospital and convalescent home, while the hospital board are empowered to make any necessary regulations for the conduct and management of the institutions and for the admission and control of patients. The board are required to admit into their institution so far as accommodation is available, cases of infectious disease sent by any medical officer in Dublin County Borough and Dublin County, and they are empowered to enter into agreements with sanitary authorities of outside districts for the treatment in the institution of patients sent by such sanitary authorities. The medical superintendent officer of health of Dublin County Borough and the county medical officer of health for Dublin County are to be entitled to enter and inspect the board's institutions and to engage in research work in consultation with the resident medical superintendent.

The Bill sets forth the procedure for defraying expenditure incurred by the hospital board in providing and maintaining the necessary institutions for the treatment of infectious disease, and for this purpose such expenditure is classified either as establishment expenses or patients' expenses. Establishment expenses, which may be roughly defined as the general overhead expenses such as those of a capital nature and the cost of staff and general services, are to be defrayed by the Dublin Corporation and the board of public health in the proportion of the respective valuations of Dublin City and County. Patients' expenses include, generally, the cost of food and medicines and other matters provided for the treatment of individual patients. These expenses are to be defrayed by the corporation in respect of patients admitted from Dublin City and by the board of public health in respect of patients admitted from Dublin County.

The Bill provides for the expenses payable by the corporation, being defrayed from the Municipal Fund, and for the expenses payable by the board of public health, being raised by means of the poor rate as a county-at-large charge. Provisions are included in the Bill dealing with the borrowing powers of the hospital board, the audit of their accounts, their power to acquire and dispose of lands, to make contracts, to accept endowments, and to exercise, generally, the powers conferred on a hospital board in relation to any institution under their control. The Minister for Local Government and Public Health is authorised to make regulations in regard to the financial relations between the hospital board and the corporation and board of public health.

Part III of the Bill provides that the hospital board shall, as soon as possible after their first meeting, submit to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health a scheme setting out the proposed arrangements for the establishment of a new fever hospital in or near the City of Dublin, including particulars of the intended site, plans and estimated cost. The scheme may be approved by the Minister with or without modifications, and he shall then fix a period within which the new fever hospital is to be established. The hospital board are thereupon to erect and equip a hospital to be known as the Dublin fever hospital in accordance with the approved scheme, and are empowered to administer that institution when provided. They are also authorised, subject to the Minister's consent, to extend, alter or otherwise improve the new fever hospital in due course, and to erect, establish and improve a convalescent home.

Part IV of the Bill prescribes that on the "appointed day" the body corporate and the committee of the Cork Street Fever Hospital shall be dissolved, and their property, assets and liabilities shall pass to the Dublin Fever Hospital Board. Special provisions are made for the preservation and continuance of existing contracts of the dissolved body and of any pending legal proceedings, as well as for the transfer of their officers and servants to the Dublin Fever Hospital Board. The rights of these officers and employees are safeguarded.

Part V of the Bill contains transitory provisions for the control of the existing fever hospital and convalescent home as from the appointed day, and authorises the closing of the existing hospital and the existing home when such course may be deemed necessary, subject to the consent of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, and the control of the Minister is also retained in regard to expenditure on extending or improving the existing hospital or convalescent home.

Mr. P.S. Doyle

In supporting the Second Reading of this Bill, there are a few matters which I should like to bring to the notice of the Parliamentary Secretary. The first thing I would suggest to him is that he ought to consider incorporating the old name, House of Recovery, in the title of the new fever hospital. It would be an indication of the continuity of the hospital started 130 years ago. I think I am right in saying that the present Cork Street Fever Hospital was about the first of its kind in Ireland or Great Britain, and I think it would be a great compliment to those who have carried on this class of treatment in Dublin for so many years to continue the old name.

As regards the provision of accommodation in the new hospital, there is some suggestion that there will be about 400 beds. I do not know whether that is correct, but I should like to point out, in connection with the treatment of measles and other epidemics that occur, say, every two years, that the Cork Street Hospital has not been able to cope with the number of cases. In 1935, application for treatment was made by 2,289 persons, and 538 of those were refused. One hundred and fifty-four of them could receive appropriate treatment in their own homes or in hospital, but 584 were suitable and could have been admitted to Cork Street Fever Hospital had accommodation been available. In the first five weeks of 1936 there has been an alarming increase. No less than 132 cases have had to be refused through want of accommodation. Of these, 122 were suitable for admission to the hospital. Those cases relate to scarlatina, fever, diphtheria and measles. I think that whatever consideration is being given to the capacity of the new hospital, some opinion is advanced that having regard to the amount of better housing conditions, sanitation and such like, there is less danger of those epidemics occurring. I am sorry that from the particulars we have before us, such does not appear to be the case; it is quite the contrary. The reason, I think, is that, if I may say so, there is more of an accumulation of children in the new housing areas than in any other part of the city, with the result that measles and such diseases, which are usually very contagious, are more inclined to spread. I just make that point in order to urge on the Minister that in the provision for the new hospital every care should be taken that, if we are going to make an improvement at all, the improvement will be in the right direction.

Sub-section 2 of section 21 says:

The resident medical superintendent shall be responsible to the hospital board... and shall in the performance of his duties observe and carry out any directions given by the medical superintendent officer of health of the County Borough of Dublin.

Here we find the resident medical superintendent having to carry out the instructions of the medical officer of health and the hospital board. Perhaps the Minister would explain in what way it is intended that should be done. I should like also if the Minister would explain the wording of section 28 which says:

The medical superintendent officer of health... shall be entitled at all reasonable times to enter any institution... and to inspect such institution and the arrangements made for the care of patients therein and to inspect and examine respectively the city patients and the county patients in such institution. ...

The implication there is that this officer can come into the hospital without acquainting the medical superintendent. I would suggest to the Minister that the wording of that section might be improved on, or perhaps when he explains what is in his mind about the word "examine" it may satisfy all concerned. Having made those few points, I support the Second Reading of the Bill.

Mr. Briscoe

Without doubt, all sections of the House will welcome the introduction of this Bill, in view of the principle that has been established by the Bill, but there are a few points which, perhaps, the Parliamentary Secretary could answer, if not now, at a later date. There are other difficulties confronting the citizens of Dublin, and in particular members, say, of the Dublin Corporation, with regard to hospital accommodation for cases of fever and other diseases. While I know that the Parliamentary Secretary and his Department have been in consultation with the county council and also with officials of the Dublin Corporation, I should like to know from him whether any decision has been taken with regard to a definite fixing of the site for this new hospital. My reason for raising the point is that some of us in the Dublin Corporation have for some considerable time been advocating that the Clonskea institution, which is at present used for fever cases, should be used as an institution to take care of tuberculosis cases amongst infants, as the present practice which exists of infants suffering from tuberculosis being sent to Crooksling with adult cases is certainly not correct. If it is going to be the decision of the Department to acquire the Clonskea site, I should like to know what arrangement is being made for the development of the other ideal. I am sure other members of the Corporation in the House here are aware of that situation. I think it was discussed some considerable time ago and left in abeyance pending the introduction of this particular Bill.

Deputy Doyle has dealt with the number of beds that it is proposed to have in this new hospital, and I am wondering whether it would be wiser, now that this new scheme is being embarked on, to have a hospital with considerably more accommodation than is at present being provided for. It is quite true, as Deputy Doyle has said, that the present institution which is covered by this Bill has on occasions been unable to cope with the cases when epidemics arise. Consequently, although we are going to increase the accommodation, at great cost, from 250 beds to about 400 beds, I think that that is not ample provision at all. I should like to say that I am sure every one of us would prefer to see unoccupied beds in a hospital of this kind than to hear, as we all do from time to time, that beds are not available for cases, and that great difficulties arise. From the point of view of the amount of money that is going to be spent, I think that the Parliamentary Secretary ought seriously to consider making much more accommodation available than is evidently conceived in this Bill. I want to again emphasise that I should like the Parliamentary Secretary when he is replying to give us, if he can, an indication as to what is going to be done with regard to providing accommodation for infant cases of tuberculosis. As I said before, I believe the corporation hoped at some time to acquire Clonskea— which is at present being used as a fever hospital, chiefly for children—for this particular purpose. I think the present practice of sending infant children to mix with adult patients in the Crooksling Sanatorium is, to say the least of it, scandalous. If the intention is to acquire the Clonskea site for the removal of the present Cork Street Hospital to that area, I think the Parliamentary Secretary should give us some indication as to what is going to be done about the other problem.

Dr. Rowlette

I join with the two Deputies who have spoken in welcoming the Bill which the Parliamentary Secretary has explained to us. I think he and the Minister are to be congratulated on coming forward with this Bill to bring about a very much needed reform. Deputy Doyle has spoken of the great service that has been done to Dublin for over a century by the Cork Street Fever Hospital, a similar service being rendered in many institutions by such purely voluntary bodies as the Cork Street Hospital was. I join with Deputy Doyle in suggesting that part of the name of the old hospital should be incorporated in the name of the new one, in order to perpetuate some recognition of the debt which the citizens of Dublin are under to the philanthropic people who established and managed this hospital for many years, and to show the continuity of the new institution with that old institution. While that institution gave great service to the city, it was quite clear that its accommodation and equipment were not adequate for modern requirements. Having studied this Bill, I believe that the scheme which has been brought forward to-day is as efficient a scheme as one could devise for providing suitable accommodation for fever cases in Dublin city and county in the near future.

There are a few points on which I should like to get some additional information from the Parliamentary Secretary, if he can give it. He mentioned that the grants already made to the Cork Street Hospital from the Sweepstakes Fund will be available towards the cost of building the new institution. I do not know the amount of those grants or whether the grants already given are adequate for the purpose of building this hospital. If not, I should like to know if the Minister is prepared to make such a further grant from the Sweepstakes Fund as will erect the institution and equip it, or is the whole of that expense to fall on the public health authorities of Dublin City and County? Will the Parliamentary Secretary give us some indication also as to what is the total amount he expects would be needed to build and equip this institution? Reference has been made by, I think, Deputy Doyle and Deputy Briscoe to the suggestion that the hospital should be built to accommodate 400 patients. I do not know if there is any limitation in the Bill as to the number of beds in the hospital or the number of patients to be accommodated. Will the Parliamentary Secretary tell us if it is his intention, at the moment, at any rate, that it should accommodate 400 patients? I do not suppose that anybody would consider the building and equipment of a smaller institution than one with 400 beds.

As to the point that Deputy Briscoe has raised—the selection of the site— I would say that is a matter of very great importance and not merely from the point of view from which the Deputy approached the subject. I was very glad to hear that aspect of the matter put forward by Deputy Briscoe and to hear this view emphasised as coming from an important representative of the City of Dublin. As regards the position of the hospital itself, there is no doubt that its site is a matter of very great importance. The selection of the site taken will rest with the governing body of the hospital and, will, I take it, also be subject to the Minister's approval. With modern transport facilities, proximity to the centre of the city is not a matter of primary importance, more particularly in the case of such an institution as the fever hospital, where ordinarily there would be no visitors. For that reason there is no necessity why those in charge of selecting the site should confine themselves to the neighbourhood of the populous part of the city or, say, to the neighbourhood of Clonskeagh. What is of extreme importance in the choice of a site is that there should be plenty of open space around it, plenty of space within its grounds and, if possible, plenty of open space outside. Any one who has happened to visit the fever hospital in the City of Belfast will have noticed that the fever hospital is some way outside the city and will have noticed also how much more attractive that has made the hospital. There you have several wings of the hospital isolated and connected by covered corridors with each other. The hospital there stands out as a series of pavilions in a beautiful garden. Such surroundings have more than an æsthetic beauty and they add to the value of the treatment in the hospital.

I understood the Parliamentary Secretary to say that it was intended that the fever wings in the existing hospitals would be closed. I do not desire to comment on that. I do not know whether that is provided for in the Bill or not or whether it will still be in the power of the existing hospitals to maintain separate wings as fever hospitals cut off from the rest of the hospital. If it is the intention of the Parliamentary Secretary or the Minister that these wings should be closed in the existing hospitals, I think myself that that would be a desirable thing. I do not know whether that is provided for in this Bill and I do not know whether it would be desirable to provide for it in the Bill. That is a matter on which I would like to have the views of the medical officers of health of Dublin City and County.

In the past it was almost necessary to maintain those wings for the purpose of clinical teaching. I understand that under the present and future management of this hospital there will be adequate arrangements for clinical teaching. That is the only respect in which the proximity of this hospital to the city appears to be of importance. I think the Parliamentary Secretary referred to the fever wings as if they were in the same building. I do not think that that is so. In Dublin, in every case, the section of the hospital devoted to fever cases is entirely separated structurally from the rest of the building. It has a different entrance from the main building, the part which is occupied by the ordinary patients. I welcome this Bill. I think its scheme is a good one, and I wish the Minister, the Parliamentary Secretary and the governing body of the hospital success in carrying it through. It will be a great boon to the residents of Dublin. I hope that the accommodation will be such and the structure of the building such as to be capable of expansion in the event of an epidemic.

Mr. A. Byrne

With the Deputies from the city who have already spoken I welcome this Bill whole-heartedly. Deputy Rowlette has touched on a number of points that I would like to have cleared up by the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary. One is what it is they propose to do with the old building of the Cork Street Fever Hospital. I understand that there is a suggestion in the Department of Local Government and Public Health that the old buildings, or some of them —I hope none of them—are to be handed over to the Coombe Maternity Hospital, in fact that the whole site of the old Cork Street Fever Hospital is to be handed over to the Coombe Maternity Hospital, and that some of those buildings are to be kept for maternity purposes. If that is so I personally would most strongly object and I hope every Deputy in this House will join with me in that objection. There is sufficient money to build a suitable building for the Coombe Maternity Hospital purposes. Some time ago I brought this matter to the notice of one of the hospital boards and asked them what they would do with the old buildings of the Cork Street Fever Hospital. One member of the board said, "Knock them down." The suggestion of the Hospitals Commission, I understand, was that some of the old buildings of the Cork Street Fever Hospital were to be retained and that the Coombe Maternity Hospital would get the site. The suggestion was that some of the buildings used for fever purposes would be left standing. I mentioned the matter at this particular board, and one well-known city doctor said, "We will knock them down," while another said, "We will burn the damned thing." I agree with the second view. I believe that rather than hand them over for maternity purposes that these buildings should be burned down. I believe when the Cork Street Fever Hospital is given over to the Coombe Hospital that not a brick of the place should be left standing. It will be better and cheaper in the end to take it all down and erect a new building on the site. I wish to join with other speakers in paying a tribute to the Hospitals Board which has done so much for Dublin City in the past in their management of Cork Street.

Mr. Belton

I hope the advice given by the Lord Mayor of Dublin will not be taken; otherwise premiums on insurance in the city would soar. I join with him, and with previous speakers in welcoming this Bill. I can also extend a welcome to the Bill from the Dublin County Council and the Dublin Board of Health. Deputy Rowlette spoke with that technical knowledge upon this matter which, of course, I could not at all claim in connection with this Bill. I accept his analysis of the Bill from the medical standpoint when he said it was a good Bill and one which could scarcely be improved upon. That was a great tribute coming from Deputy Rowlette —a distinguished member of this House with no associations with the Government to which he saw fit to pay it. I think it is a tribute in which we can all join, when such independent testimony as to the value of the Bill is made in this House.

There are a couple of points I would like to develop. The first is this: Fever, I understand, is very largely due to bad housing and bad food, and on these two points I wish to say a word. This hospital, I presume like all other hospitals, will be endowed. Before the Minister for Local Government, at the moment, is a requisition from the Dublin Corporation that the endowment fund should be invested in housing. Whatever endowment moneys are available, the Dublin Corporation, and the board of health are prepared to accept for the building of houses. There is I understand a considerable amount of money from that fund that finds its way into British War Loan. I suggest to the Minister that his last answer to the Dublin Corporation upon this matter should not be his final answer. At any rate the Dublin Corporation are going to keep on knocking at the door, and indeed another messenger is now on the way.

I pressed on the Parliamentary Secretary, the last time this Bill was before the House, to provide good milk for the citizens. If he would carry out what was proposed in the Bill to be carried out he would not allow a loop-hole to exist whereby that section of the Bill could be got around by a request from the Minister for Agriculture to allow milk into Dublin which should not be allowed in. That milk is coming into Dublin at the rate of 10,000 gallons a day at present, and it is not up to the specification of milk for human consumption in either Northern Ireland or Great Britain.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy please get back to Cork Street?

Mr. Belton

There is no use providing good hospitals for fever patients if we provide bad kind of milk.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy opened his speech by stating that he was not competent to go into the causes of fever. I do not say he is not, but it would not be in order on this Bill.

Mr. Belton

I think, a Chinn Comhairle, that you misunderstood me. I said I was not competent to go into the treatment of fever, but at the same time if I am out of order that is an end of it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order.

Mr. Stephen Jordan

He was roving around on "roulette."

Mr. Belton

I must give the Deputy this time the full benefit of his joke.

Mr. Dillon

There are two observations I wish to make in connection with this Bill. One is that I wish the erection of fever hospitals in rural Ireland could be proceeded with upon the same or similar lines as the Cork Street Fever Hospital. I do not want to labour that at any length because it might make me stray from the context of this Bill. But I think the Minister will agree that when money of the same kind is necessary to be spent on hospital accommodation it ought not to be wasted. The other point is one of very great importance to this House. The board of Cork Street Hospital will be very largely under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health. Until recently I would have concurred without hesitation in any proposal that permitted the Minister for Local Government and Public Health to set such a service upon its feet. I would have been satisfied that he would have done that with no other object in view than the best interests of the sick poor and the interests of the prospective occupants of the fever hospital. But now I desire to address this categorical question to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister: Whether his attention has been drawn to the utterance made recently by Deputy Corbett at the Galway Board of Health to the effect that the Minister was habitually overridden by permanent officials in his Department and that there was prima facie evidence that Freemason opinion bore upon the decisions of the Department; and whether the Minister has any information that these allegations made by Deputy Corbett are in fact true. If the Minister is a Freemasonridden slave we ought to consider well whether Cork Street Hospital ought to be run by Freemasons. If he is a hoodwinked fool, as suggested by Deputy Corbett, we ought to consider whether he is a proper person to set it going. Heaven forbid that fever patients should be given over to Freemasons and fools for care. If these charges are not true, we only hear echoed from the lips of Deputy Corbett, charges which the Minister for Local Government and Public Health when he was Deputy O'Kelly, made himself against Deputy Mulcahy when he was Minister for Local Government and Public Health. I remember the eloquence with which the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Local Government used to shriek Freemasonry across this House at Deputy Cosgrave or Deputy Mulcahy. I remember how they used to charge that Deputy Blythe was in the pocket of Freemasons and how the Freemasons used to comb Deputy McGilligan out of their hair. Is it any wonder if Deputy Corbett will have discovered at the next election that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government is a Freemason and, I suppose that the Minister for Industry and Commerce is infesting the hair of the Freemasons. I think it is wise that the effect of this kind of thing should be known.

Mr. Lemass

Are these matters relevant in this debate?

Mr. Dillon

I think it is right that this House should realise first that Ministers of this State were not susceptible to any kind of improper pressure during the last Administration, and that it is as false and as libellous and as unscrupulous to allege such pressure and intimidation against the Minister for Local Government to-day as it was to level them against Deputy Mulcahy when he held that office five or six years ago. It is as necessary to bring home to the country the fraudulent libels that were published about those men as it is to do the excellent work contemplated in this Bill.

I am satisfied that the Minister for Local Government will carry out the duties in connection with this excellent proposal scrupulously, having received the advice of competent civil servants, and having weighed that advice carefully, as it is his duty to weigh it. I am satisfied that he will not be hoodwinked by civil servants and I am satisfied that no civil servant will seek to hoodwink him. I am satisfied that he will not allow the influence of anybody outside this House to sway his judgement improperly; and that neither Freemasons nor Knights of Columbanus or any other sectarian body in this country will concern itself to have anything done in regard to the Cork Street Fever Hospital or the affairs of the Galway Board of Health that they do not believe to be in the best interests of the country. I think it is right that the Minister for Local Government should take this opportunity to scatter ashes on his own head and to cry "Peccavi; I cannot blame Deputy Corbett for saying to-day about me what I delighted in saying about my predecessors six or seven years ago"—with just as much truth, just as much foundation, and just as much justification as Deputy Corbett has for saying it about the Minister to-day.

Dr. Ward

The point raised by Deputy Doyle and Deputy Rowlette as to the name of the new institution is a point which has not been raised before. The proposed name of the new institution has, I understand, been agreed upon by the trustees, the representatives of the Dublin Corporation and of the Dublin Board of Health. If, however, there is any very strong feeling in favour of a change in the name of the institution, I do not see that there can be any radical objection to it, but it is the first time the point has been raised. On the question of the number of beds, I am quite sure that everybody is anxious that adequate provision should be made for the future as far as we can reasonably anticipate the demands that will be made upon those beds. At the present time, in the existing institution, the number of beds is 250 approximately, and it is proposed to provide 400 in the new fever hospital. I am not satisfied that that is not adequate provision, but, at any rate, on the new site there will be plenty of room for future development, and if we begin by providing a 400-bed institution and plan our institution in such a way that it can be advantageously extended in the future, I think the position is sufficiently safe to satisfy anybody. If it is necessary to add 100 beds at some future time it can easily be done.

Deputy Doyle is anxious that Section 28 should be explained. It seems to me that it is not too easy to put it in any clearer language than is set out in the section. The medical officer of health for County Dublin and the medical officer of health for the borough shall be entitled at all reasonable times to enter any institution, being a fever hospital or convalescent home which is for the time being being managed and controlled by the hospital board, and to inspect such institution, the arrangements made for the care of patients therein and to inspect and examine respectively the city patients and the county patients in such institution. Deputy Doyle apparently has some anxiety as to whether the medical officers of health under this section may consider themselves free to go into an institution at any time they feel so disposed, without acquainting the resident medical superintendent.

Mr. Doyle

And to examine.

Dr. Ward

It is not to be set out in the Bill that previous to going in to inspect an institution or examine patients it shall be a statutory obligation on them to inform and consult with the resident medical superintendent, but I think it can, with absolute safety, be assumed that the medical officers of health will not visit an institution and examine the patients unless after consultation and in agreement with the resident medical superintendent.

Mr. Doyle

The Minister will agree that that is plainer than it is in the Bill.

Dr. Ward

That may be so, but so long as the Deputy is clear as to what the intention of the section is, I am quite satisfied. Deputy Briscoe is anxious about the question of the site. The Bill, of course, does not deal with the site at all. A provisional committee is at present engaged in inspecting a number of possible sites, and these will eventually come to the Minister for Local Government for approval. They will be further inspected by the Minister's technical advisers, and ample opportunity will be offered to members of the corporation, and to any other interested parties, to put forward their views as to the suitability of any of the sites offered, and any views put forward by responsible persons will be very carefully considered.

The Bill does not fix the number of beds, as I said earlier. The ultimate decision on the number of beds will rest with the Minister, after consulting the local authorities concerned. As to the capital expenditure that will be incurred in the provision of the new institution, it is not possible at this stage to indicate with any degree of accuracy what the probable cost of a 400-bed institution will be, but, from our experience in providing similar institutions throughout the country, I should say that we are not likely to build and equip a new fever hospital at a much lesser figure than about £300,000. The existing fever hospital board have in hands, from moneys provided from sweepstake funds, approximately £58,000, and while it is not set out in the Bill, nor is it necessary that it should be, it can with safety be anticipated that the balance of the cost of building and equipping the institution will be borne out of sweepstake funds.

As to the provision being made for fever cases in general hospitals in Dublin at present, there is no provision in the Bill directed towards preventing general hospitals from having a fever wing. If it is desirable that such a practice should be discontinued when the new fever hospital is provided, I do not think it will be necessary to have any statutory power to bring that about. I believe it can be brought about by negotiating in a friendly way with the voluntary hospitals, and that they will be quite in agreement with us if the necessary provision for that particular type of case is found in the new institution.

Deputy Byrne, the Lord Mayor, appears to be concerned as to what purpose the existing fever hospital buildings may be put when the new hospital is provided. I think it will be a number of years, at any rate, before we will have to deal with that problem, and nothing definite has been decided. Negotiations have taken place between the board of governors of the existing institution and the authorities of the Coombe Hospital, and I understand that a tentative agreement has been reached, but nothing in the nature of a final agreement has been reached.

I am sure that Deputy Byrne will be satisfied that every precaution will be taken to ensure, if the buildings are given over for a maternity hospital or for any other purpose, that the Minister will satisfy himself, whatever the particular scheme may be, that the public health will not be endangered. Anyhow, if it is considered necessary to burn the buildings, as Deputy Byrne suggests, I suppose we shall have to burn them; and if it is considered sufficient to demolish them, they will be demolished. If, in the long run, it is considered that it would be safe to hand them over intact to the new institution, having carefully considered Deputy Byrne's representations and his anxiety, the Minister's ultimate decision will, I am sure, be one that will safeguard the public interest.

I do not think that there are any other points arising out of this discussion. I do not propose to follow Deputy Dillon's diatribe. We get accustomed to that kind of thing from Deputy Dillon, and I think that the country generally pays just as little attention to Deputy Dillon when he gives vent to such outbursts as the members of the House do.

General Mulcahy

Does the Parliamentary Secretary deny that the statements were made by Deputy Corbett?

Dr. Ward

I have no knowledge as to whether Deputy Corbett made the statements alleged or not. I presume that Deputy Dillon read the statements alleged to have been made by Deputy Corbett in some newspapers, perhaps the Irish Press or the Irish Independent, but I am not concerned about that. I am not prepared to accept Deputy Dillon's version of anything that Deputy Corbett or any other Deputy said. Neither am I prepared to accept the report that appears in any of the daily papers as representing the views of Deputy Corbett or anybody else unless, and until, such statement is confirmed by the person concerned.

General Mulcahy

Is the Parliamentary Secretary prepared to take into consideration statements made by public representatives reflecting on the credit, the bona-fides, and the honesty of his Department?

Dr. Ward

I have yet to be satisfied that such a statement has been made.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage to be taken on Wednesday, 18th March.