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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Nov 1943

Vol. 91 No. 14

Committee on Finance. - Vote 62—Wireless Broadcasting—(Resumed).

I think that, during the course of the debate yesterday, although there was a fair amount of criticism, there was at the same time, to an unexpected degree, commendation of the station as a whole. The amount of criticism indicated that a vital interest is being taken in the station—more so, perhaps, than on previous occasions—and I think that that is very encouraging both to the director and to the staff of the station. I cannot avoid, however, commenting on the way in which two of the chief daily newspapers here distorted the general tenour of the debate here in connection with this matter. While they published speeches, or parts of speeches, condemning certain items, they did not refer, except in a very few cases, to the praise that was given to the station; nor did they indicate the atmosphere of the whole debate. Perhaps, it would be better for me to deal first of all with specific criticisms that have been made before coming to more general matters. There have been questions asked about so many details which deserve to receive detailed answers that I think that, perhaps, I should deal with these first.

Deputy Cosgrave, the Leader of the Opposition, raised the question of the wave-length of Athlone, and other Deputies spoke of the quality of reception in various parts of the country. As to the wave-length, I can assure the Deputies that 531 metres, the present wave-length of the Athlone Station, is one very well adapted for the solution of our problem of serving the needs of the whole country from a single centrally situated high-power station.

The demands for wave-lengths for the numerous varieties of service given by wireless are so great, that it is only by world-wide international agreement that the various stations can be worked with anything approaching efficiency. World-Wide conferences, at each of which this country has been represented, were held about every five years for the purpose of allocating bands of wave-lengths to the various wireless services, including broadcasting, and then European regional conferences allocated the individual wave-lengths to broadcasting stations on the Continent of Europe, and those parts of Africa and Asia that were, for all practical purposes, in the European broadcasting zones. Briefly, it may be said that for wave-lengths in the bands used for local, as distinct from intercontinental, broadcasting, the longer the wave-length used, the greater is the effective coverage, and there was great competition at the European broadcasting conferences for the longer waves. Our efforts to obtain an efficient wave-length for our main station were very successful, as the following facts show.

Dublin—then our only station—was opened on the 1st January, 1926, using a wave-length of 390 metres. On the 13th January, 1928, following a conference held in Brussels, this was changed to 411 metres, and on the 30th June, 1929, following a conference in Prague, to 413 metres. This wave-length of 413 metres was transferred to the Athlone high-power station when it was opened in June, 1932, and, in accordance with what is known as the Lucerne Plan, the wave-length was increased to 531 metres on the 15th January, 1934.

As I have said, this wave-length is a very good wave-length for our purposes, but only on the condition, of course, that we are left in undisturbed possession of it. This, not withstanding the various international conferences, we have not been able to ensure, and certain troublesome interference occurred from time to time even under normal conditions. During the present hostilities, when radio services are of such vital concern to the belligerents, respect for international agreements has naturally weakened, and reception of the Athlone programme is seriously marred over the greater part of the country by unauthorised signals emanating from the station of a belligerent, and although we have made efforts to have the interference removed, we have been unable to do so. Our efforts in this direction are, however, continuing.

Apart from this widespread interference, it may well be that there are some spots in the country at which reception from Athlone is not entirely satisfactory. Any specific complaints of this kind that reach the broadcasting service are investigated on the spot, and if Deputies will give me details of particular cases in which they are interested, I shall take steps to have them carefully examined. In some cases the trouble may be in the individual receiving-arrangements, or in locally generated interference, and my technical staff will, in such cases, be able to advise how an improvement may be effected.

Deputy Cosgrave also spoke of the site of the station as being unsuitable. I think there is some confusion here. The site of our main station is Athlone, and there is no doubt that this is a very suitable site for a station that has to serve the whole of our country. Probably, what Deputy Cosgrave had in mind were our studio arrangements, which are certainly capable of improvement. The matter of a new specially designed and equipped building, as headquarters for Irish Broadcasting, was being actively pursued in 1939 when the present emergency arose. Naturally, nothing effective can be done in the way of providing new buildings and elaborate equipment at the present time, but the matter is being constantly kept in mind and the design pushed ahead as far as is practicable.

The Deputy also raised the question of harp broadcasts and suggested that we do not feature the harp to any extent. I find that in recent times we had harp broadcasts on the following dates: 18th September, 24th September, 6th October, 10th October, 25th October, 27th October and 1st November. Another broadcast is arranged for the 15th instant. There are four or five harpists who are employed on these broadcasts. It is impossible for any individual to listen in to the radio all the time and very often a person will miss the very item which he would like to have heard. I think that criticism on details of this sort would be more properly made direct to the station than made the subject of public controversy. The Deputy also raised the question of announcers and their accents. Literally hundreds of people were examined in order to get announcers who would be clearly and thoroughly understood. One Deputy said that the best language to use was the language most easily understood and that must be always the criterion by which we shall choose our announcers.

The Deputy also asked if we had employed experts in the examination for new members of the orchestra. I may say that I was very careful both for purposes of self-protection and also for the purpose of good policy, not to interfere in any way with the examiners, who were carefully chosen and were themselves expert musicians of high standing. The matter of choosing the members of the orchestra was left entirely in their hands. I may say that my friends were very considerably disappointed, because at least two of them were not chosen, so that any complaint cannot be founded on the alleged exercise of political influence in these appointments.

Deputy Esmonde raised the question of propaganda, and appeared to be under the impression that it was a question for the station. It is, however, a matter for other Departments. It is a question of high policy or international policy as to how far we should enter into propaganda on the wireless. Personally, I think everybody is extremely sick of propaganda, and wherever one finds propaganda mixed up with the news from other countries, the tendency is for one to shrug one's shoulders and turn away from that station.

I did not suggest that the Minister should mix propaganda with the news, but that he should treat it as a separate item.

I am referring now to propaganda in general. People have got tired of it. It must be remembered that a neighbouring country is spending at present £9,000,000 a year on their station, and a very large part of that sum is being devoted to propaganda. We could not possibly compete with the British on these terms. Of course, if there is any propaganda to be carried out by the various Departments, we are always at their disposal, and from time to time the station is used for the purpose—for instance, of broadcasting announcements from the Department of Industry and Commerce or the Department of Supplies.

And occasionally by Fianna Fáil.

Upper Mount Street.

I shall come to that. Deputy Esmonde also asked me to give more space to the broadcasting of announcements in connection with legislation, or what amounts to legislation, by Emergency Orders. We discovered that the best thing we could do in that regard was simply to refer to the Order, and say that it had been made and then refer people who are interested to the daily papers for details of the Order, because we think that it would be a most dangerous thing for us to try to summarise some of these Orders.

Or for anybody else.

We might very easily mislead the people as to the details of an Order, but whenever Departments immediately concerned desire to give simple explanations for the benefit of the public, the Director is always prepared to make arrangements accordingly. The Deputy also asked for an extension of hours of broadcasting. An extension of two hours would cost £17,000 a year. We do not arbitrarily choose the hours during which we broadcast. As a result of investigations, not merely in this country but in other countries, we discovered by means of a graph that the hours we have chosen for the broadcasts are the hours in which people are generally in the habit of listening-in. They listen-in in the middle of the day and then the graph drops steeply. Then it comes on again from about 6.30 p.m. until 10.30 or 11 o'clock. These are the peak hours which are most favourable according to the ordinary habits of the people for listening-in. That is the best we can do having regard to our limited resources.

Deputy McCann raised the question of fees but he seems, somehow or other, to have mixed up his figures. The actual amount we spend on artistes' fees and copyright is £29,215.

Mr. Byrne

How much per artiste?

I have a note on the artistes. The Deputy, amongst other things, stated that the pay of members of the orchestra was £5 per week for men and £4 for women. The general wage for members of the orchestra is now £6 per week for men and £5 for women, except in the case of new members who are paid the lower rates for the first year of employment only, after which they are advanced to the rates which I have quoted. In addition to these rates, sums of 10/- and 5/- are paid to the leaders of the various sections in the orchestra and the leader has a substantially higher rate. In this connection it must be remembered that the employment of the members of the orchestra is part-time and that they are free to engage in other musical work outside their normal hours of attendance at the station for rehearsals and broadcasts. I may say that, when the additional posts in the orchestra were advertised early this year, many applications were received from artists in outside employment.

In regard to the fees which in general are paid to artistes, I would like to remind the House that this time last year I presented a Supplementary Broadcasting Estimate to the House when it was agreed that extra programme funds would be provided at the rate of £11,150 per year. While a substantial amount of this amount has been devoted to increasing and improving the orchestra, improvements have been effected in the pay of authors, script writers, actors, singers and artistes in general. Looking through recent lists of fees, I find that for a half-hour play or group feature involving the writing and preparation of a script, the author's fee has not in any case been less than £3 and that a similar fee has been paid to producers for features of similar length. These are average fees, but in special cases substantially higher rates are paid. It is not left to a producer to pay the actors out of his fee, and in nearly every case contracts are made direct with the actors and actresses taking part. The fee paid to actors for taking part in station broadcasts is not less than £1 for features of 30 minutes and under and, in the case of productions by outside companies such as the Abbey and Longford Players, the fees are very much higher. Live broadcasts are now very often paid for at 50 per cent. higher rates than were paid before I introduced the Supplementary Estimate last year.

In considering the question of increased programme expenditure, I must have regard to the financial position of the service. Taking into account the fall in the number of licence holders and the loss of advertising revenue, I am afraid that in the present period of acute financial stringency, there is not much likelihood of inducing the Government to provide more money for broadcasting at present.

Deputy Larkin raised several questions and I notice, with reference to him, that while certain condemnatory remarks of his of a rather loose nature were quoted, the remarks which he made in encouragement of the station were not quoted in the papers at all. There was no balanced report in the newspapers. He referred to one particular individual, who has been employed from time to time and has received fees, and his statement was completely erroneous. He said that this individual had received £1 per broadcast for his work. In fact, he was employed continuously for several years on programmes for school work, and the fee paid to him during 1941-42 and 1942-43 for a 20-minutes weekly broadcast was £3. In the 1942-43 season, this gentleman was unable to do the broadcast regularly and other arrangements had to be made. One cannot, of course, keep the same broadcasters on all the time: the public demand variety and so there must be a change.

The staffing of the news department is a matter that is under very careful consideration at present. What Deputy Norton said is true and if it were not for my enforced absence I would have dealt with the matter long ago. The reporter who is employed at present is purely a temporary officer, employed on a week to week basis, and under existing regulations he is not entitled to leave. His duties are being considered, with a view to determining whether there is justification for the creation of a regular post. In such event, the post would have to be filled in accordance with the provisions of the Civil Service Regulations Acts. One cannot, as Deputy Larkin did, compare it to the service in a newspaper office. If newspaper reporters are sent to the House for a short while, they can be sent on to other work afterwards; but the reporters that we would have to employ would have to be employed all the time on the same work, and that gives very great difficulty. I shall have the matter looked into very carefully, as we regard the news service as one of very vital importance.

Would the Minister give the man leave, seeing that he has been there for years?

The Deputy knows as well as I do that there are certain Civil Service regulations and that, unless this man becomes a regular civil servant, he cannot be paid for sick leave or holidays.

Surely, the Minister——

I do not think we would get any further by a discussion here. I can assure the Deputy it is receiving very sympathetic consideration, but the difficulties are there.

I wish to remind the Minister that he employs hundreds of temporary civil servants himself, in other branches, and gives them paid holidays. That is just in case the Minister overlooks it.

He is paid on a fee basis from week to week. However, that is another matter. We will go into all those details. The most serious attack on the station was made by Deputy O'Higgins and Deputy Dillon, though I cannot say that I regard Deputy Dillon's attacks ever as being very serious. The public have long since ceased to attach any importance to his irresponsible remarks. He showed, in his rather lengthy speech yesterday, considerable ignorance in detail. He was not present when I made my speech and he remade bits of it and raised questions which I had already answered. As to the station, he referred to matters which were actually being done—which indicated that he does not listen-in at all to the station. He made certain suggestions, which are being carried out, but it is rather a waste of time, I think, to take him seriously.

Deputy O'Higgins is different. I must say that he was very fair in the compliments which he paid to the staff for their efforts to improve the station, but he was entirely wrong on the question of the news service. The principle that I followed—it was an obvious principle—was that I would not interfere, and would not allow interference from the House, with the news reporting. So far as the arrangement of the news is concerned, I think it is right that that should be left to the experts. If the war news is the news which is in most people's minds, I am afraid we have to give the war news first, because that is what they want first. We must leave that to the expert and we cannot take into consideration that our people who listen-in are also listening in to the British Station. We must assume that, for the Irish people, there is only one station to which they listen and, therefore, we must give them a good all-round review of the news. On the whole, our foreign news has been praised as being most objective and carefully balanced. Personally, I think it is almost too carefully balanced sometimes, but that is an individual opinion, and I am sure there are many Deputies who, according to their views as to how things are going, will regard the very careful and objective presentation of the news in the same way.

With regard to our own news, some Deputies seem to think that, when the newspapers give the Fianna Fáil Government such a bad time and give such a distorted picture of the Government, the radio should do the same thing. I examined figures which were made up for me, as to the space given to the various speakers, and I find that, for the Dáil proceedings on October 20th, 21st, 22nd, 27th, 28th, and November 3rd, 4th and 9th, the total of the number of lines in the typescript— which is all we can go by as being perfectly fair and reliable—devoted to the Government Party was 827, while the number devoted to the Opposition was 785. That is, I think, an extremely fair distribution. Of course, when the Deputies of the Opposition listen-in to the radio and find that their arguments are so futile and pathetically useless that the weight of merit goes entirely to the Government, we cannot help that—we cannot make their speeches for them.

Who decides they are useless? Is it the Civil Service or the Minister?

Does the Minister realise that that offensiveness does not prove his case? The Minister has tried to give offence, and he is very foolish.

What did I get from the Deputies yesterday but offence to the Government?

That is one of the disadvantages of being in the Minister's position. He should have a thicker skin than he has.

Is the Government in power or not? Has it the responsibility of office? Is it to put its policy before the people through the radio or not? Must only the Opposition speeches be given?

Do not be foolish now. You are bad enough, goodness knows.

The Deputy's words have not the least influence on me.

I think that is about as much as I need say in reply to the arguments that have been put forward. The only thing I am going to insist upon is that no one in this House, and no opinion in this House, will bully our reporters into changing from their proper function, which is to give a fair presentation of the news, according to their expert views.

Mr. Byrne

What about Deputy Mongan's criticism yesterday? Has the Minister anything to say to that? Deputy Mongan was crushed out of the news last night and he was the only one treated in that way.

I am sorry. I have a note of Deputy Mongan's criticism. He suggested that the Irish we broadcast is nothing but rámeis, because, I suppose, our broadcasters in Irish are not all native speakers. We do employ quite a number of native speakers. Last week we employed, in our various features, as many as 19 who are native speakers, or substantially native speakers. The number of native speakers in Dublin who are good broadcasters is limited, and obviously we cannot bring people from the Gaeltacht for single programmes in present circumstances.

Sa tuarascbháil ar imeachta na Dála a chraol Radio Eireann indé, ní raibh oiread is focal dár dhubhairt an duine a cuireadh annseo ón gceanntar a ndeachaidh an Piarsach ann le Gaedhilg a fhoghluim. Labhair mise ag a hocht a chlog agus bhí neart ama ag lucht stiúrtha Radio Eireann ar dhubhairt mé a bheith réidh aca in am le n-a chraoladh.

Perhaps the Minister will reply? Seeing he does not understand a word of Irish, I will translate for him what the Deputy said. How is it that 14 or 15 Deputies spoke here yesterday and two Deputies spoke in Irish and all but one Deputy was mentioned in the broadcast? One Deputy who spoke in Irish, Deputy Bartley, was reported. The other Deputy was Deputy Mongan. Every Deputy who spoke on the Estimate for Wireless Broadcasting, with the exception of Deputy Mongan, was mentioned in the broadcast. Is it the penalty for speaking in Irish in this House that one's constituents in Connemara cannot hear from Radio Eireann what one said? Are we to understand in the future that if a Deputy addresses the House in Irish his remarks will not be reported and his constituents in the Gaeltacht will be left ignorant of the fact that he took part in the debate? If that is the condition of affairs, I think it is scandalous.

It is with the greatest difficulty that the reporters could, at that late hour, get the reports into the station. There were other Deputies who spoke and who were not reported. On the whole, it as about as fair a report as one could expect, having regard to the time.

Misc an t-aon Teachta amháin nach raibh focal dár dhubhairt sé san gcraoladh. Labhair go leor Teachtaí in mo dhiaidh agus cuireadh ar dhubhairt siad sa tuarascbháil, ach maidir le gach ar dhubhairt mise, rinne Radio Eireann leath-chuma orm.

Is i nGaedhilg a labhair an Teachta agus is dócha nar thuigeadar é.

Thuigeadar an Teachta Mac Phárthaláin agus craoladh a chuid cainte, agus is i nGaedhilg a labhair mise ach ní tiubharfaí le fios do mhuintir mo cheanntair gur oscail mé mo bhéal chor ar bith.

Question put and agreed to.
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