One always comes away from debates on the Forestry Department with one impression—that everybody is in favour of increasing the amount of land under timber and the amount of timber grown. That is about as far as we get. There is unanimity on this subject. It is interesting to compare the situation in this country with the situation in other countries. But we do not always make the proper comparisons. Yesterday, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia were mentioned by way of comparison. These are countries in which there were originally vast amounts of native timber. It had been growing there for centuries. A better comparison would be furnished by Holland and Denmark which often serve as comparisons in other matters. I have taken from the Planning Exhibition around the corner the figures for these countries. They may not be strictly accurate but I assume that they are approximately correct. They disclose an extraordinary state of affairs so far as this country is concerned. We all know, generally, what the physical and geographical characteristics of these countries are. These countries are flat countries, more or less surrounded by the sea. In Denmark, 9 per cent. of the soil is under timber, according to the figures which I obtained. In Holland, 6 per cent. is under timber and, in our own case, less than 1 per cent. I think that the exact percentage mentioned in our case by some Deputy was .3. That figure was, probably, taken from the statistical reports. That shows that our position is completely unsatisfactory and I think that we are all agreed that we must rectify matters as best we can.
The question is: Who will grow the timber and look after it? The Minister and his Department are the only people who can do that unless individuals to whom I shall presently refer are brought in. The private grower grows timber because he likes it and he has not any great inducement to grow it for the purpose of profit. When the Minister was introducing this Estimate, he said—I have not got his exact words—that, in order to be a paying proposition, State forests should be of sufficient extent to keep the cost of fencing, cultivation and supervision within economic limits. He went on to say that they would have to be of not less than certain dimensions. That is the position as regards the State, which goes on from generation to generation and which does not have to reap a profit within the lifetime of an individual. There is another advantage which, I think, the State has over the private individual in this connection. I do not know that the State contributes any sum corresponding with that which the private individual has to pay annually by way of income-tax on the land on which the timber is grown. I think that the State is exempt from the payment of income-tax. So that, in addition to the difficulties which the private individual has to contend with and which are common both to himself and the State, there is this burden of an annual tax upon the land.
The Minister will readily appreciate that no scheme is really worth while, from the point of view of the private individual, unless it covers a considerable extent of soil. That being so, if we are to conserve the timber resources of the country, it must be done on a national scale and we must not look to private individuals to provide any substantial quantities of native timber. Undoubtedly, a number of private individuals will go in for the planting of timber. Those will be divisible into two categories. In the first category will be those who start out to lay down new plantations and, in the second category, will be those who are bound under the law to replace old plantations which they have cut down. The Minister has referred to inducements. One inducement is an increase of the grant from £4 to £10 per acre. Notwithstanding the inducements, I do not think that we shall get under present circumstances the result which we all wish to see brought about. The question will come to this—that the State will have to carry the entire burden of conserving the timber supply of the country.
The Minister mentioned that there was a new Bill on the stocks. It would be of great interest to those concerned with afforestation if we could have a general outline of what is likely to be envisaged in connection with that Bill. Timber is a matter for long-time planning and we should like to know whether anything likely to affect the running of timber plantations is contemplated. I have here a very interesting little book on forestry which I turned up in the Library since this Estimate came before the House. It is one of the few books we have in the Library on this subject. It is by Mr. E. P. Stebbing, and it is entitled: The Forestry Question in Great Britain. It is a work I would recommend to all those interested in the possibility of forestry development. Page 47 gives an account of the development of the district of Landes, on the western coast of France, 100 years ago. I quote it because it illustrates the possibilities of forestry development in this country from the paying point of view. In this particular district in France, considerable economic benefit resulted to the community concerned by that development of forestry. With the permission of the House, I shall quote the paragraph of the book I refer to. It is a very well written book, and the paragraph is so clear and devoid of technicalities that everyone can understand it. Speaking of the development of forestry in England, it says, at page 47:—
"The above contention can be easily substantiated by a trip across the Channel and a study of any forest centre in France. The well-known case of the Landes on the western coast on the shores of the Bay of Biscay may be instanced. Something over a century ago this ribbon of country edging the sea consisted of shifting sand, sand dunes and malarious marshes, the sand being constantly being blown inland thereby covering up valuable agricultural lands and vineyards. The population was sparse, lived under the most miserable conditions and was racked by fevers. Chiefly with the object of arresting the march of the sand, the French Government commenced a forest in this region which now presents to view a great belt of forest of the maritime pine. The work, commenced at first as a purely protective one, has turned out an extraordinary financial success. A large and healthy population (for the marshes have been drained and fever has disappeared) is now entirely immersed in great industries; timber, resin (the pines are tapped) and paper pulp (the last the latest), the direct outcome of the afforestation schemes and most lucrative ones."
This I think is the most important part:
"For years ships have brought pit props from here to the Welsh mines and carried back therefrom, coal."
That refers, of course, to the war of 1914.
"Since the war we have been paying France well over £1,000,000 sterling, per annum, for the pit wood sent us from these regions..."
That alone indicates the financial benefit of forestry to a country. A study of that passage shows what can be done and illustrates the possibilities before us in this country too. Of course, one of the obstacles in our path is that we have not the facilities at the present time because of wartime conditions. But, certainly, there is a great future for forestry in this country and I trust that the Minister and his Department will see that the opportunity for development is availed of by the State and that something less will be expected from private individuals.