asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware of the execution of court decrees against 33 leaseholders in Carndonagh for the non-payment of ground rents, and of the serious local unrest in the area as a result, and if he will state whether it is proposed to introduce legislation concerning the compulsory sale of ground rents to tenants.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Carndonagh Leaseholders—Sale of Ground Rents.
asked the Minister for Justice if he now proposes to take steps to enable leaseholders to become the owners of the ground rents of their houses.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 13 together.
I understand that the recent scenes in Carndonagh were the culmination of a concerted refusal on the part of a number of tenants to pay ground rents to persons legally entitled to those rents. This refusal followed on the failure of the leaseholders and the ground landlords to agree on the terms for the purchase of the ground rents. The policy of non-recognition of the law has, in this case, been carried to the extent of making things as difficult as possible for the officers of the court. Premises are barricaded against them, crowds are assembled to embarrass and intimidate them, and a campaign is carried on to deprive them of police protection. The real question now at issue is whether organised obstruction or intimidation of the officers of the court in the discharge of their duty is to be tolerated.
As regards the demands for further legislation on the subject of ground rents, I may point out that, so far as leaseholders generally are concerned, the present law as embodied in the Landlord and Tenant Acts, 1931 and 1943, represents a distinct advance on the position that obtained prior to 1931. The demands of leaseholders for the further revision of the terms of the 1931 Act and for the introduction of a scheme for the compulsory sale of ground rents to leaseholders have been, and are at present, receiving careful consideration. I cannot give any indication of what the Government's decision is likely to be on those questions nor can I, of course, say what, if any, further legislation on the subject may be approved by the Oireachtas. It should be obvious, however, that no Government could allow itself to be coerced into taking precipitate decisions as regards this complicated and difficult matter by action such as has been reported from Carndonagh in the last week.
Is the Minister aware that the agitation now going on in Carndonagh is the result of the contempt with which the association has been treated by the agents and trustees of the landlords in breaking off negotiations? Is he further aware that, so far as the question of disturbance is concerned, the Town Tenants' Association, through their chairman, the Very Rev. James Bonner, parish priest, have appealed to the people that there will be no disturbance or intimidation so far as the execution of the decrees is concerned? So far as I understand, the first execution of decrees took place last Thursday, and while the doors were closed and were broken in by the sheriff's bailiffs, there was no interference on the part of the people——
The Deputy is now making a speech.
I will ask the Minister, in view of what I have stated, and in view of the fact that, as regards a number of the tenants against whom decrees have been granted by the court, these decrees have not yet been executed, to ask the sheriff, if it is possible now, to postpone the execution of these decrees for a certain length of time in order that the tenants, or the members of the leaseholders' association, and the agents for the landlords would be brought together again with a view to arriving at a reasonable settlement in connection with the whole matter.
The Minister has no function in that respect.
Mr. Boland
That is a matter for the parties concerned. I cannot interfere with civil decrees at all.
As a gesture from the Minister——
Mr. Boland
I have no right to interfere in these matters.
The Deputy is asking the Minister to do something in respect of which he has no function.
Is the Minister not aware that legislation in relation to ground rents is long overdue? Is the Minister not aware that there is as strong a case for legislation to acquire ground rents as there was for legislation to acquire land under the Land Acts?
Mr. Boland
I am not aware of that at all—not by any means. It is not the same question at all. There are plenty of people paying ground rents who are far better off than the people to whom they are paying them. This is a most complicated matter and it requires the most careful consideration before we enter into legislation.
That question as to whether the landlord or the tenant is better off does not arise.
We cannot have a debate at this stage on the question of town tenants and ground rents.
Is the Minister aware that there is a grave infliction on the owners of houses in urban areas by reason of the fact that the ground on which their houses are built is owned in many cases by absentee landlords?