On the Adjournment, Deputy Davin has given notice to raise the subject matter of Question No. 6 on the Order Paper of Thursday, 9th October.
Financial Resolution No. 13. - Adjournment—Closing of Railway Branch Lines.
On Thursday last I addressed the following question to the Minister for Industry and Commerce:—
"To ask the Minister for Industry Commerce if he will state the number of branch lines closed down by Córas Iompair Éireann during the present year; the number subsequently re-opened; the number still closed down; under what statutory authority the company is entitled to keep these lines closed for an indefinite period; also the number of staff displaced during the first nine months of the present year by reason of the closing of branch lines."
The Minister in reply said:
"Twenty-two branch lines have been temporarily closed by Córas Iompair Éireann in the present year. Of these, three have been re-opened for all traffic and seven for limited services, leaving 12 still closed. The company have acted under the provisions of Emergency Powers (Córas Iompair Éireann) (Reduction of Railway Services) Order, 1944, as continued in force by the Supplies and Services (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1946."
The Minister in that reply has stated that 12 of the 22 branch lines closed down as the result of the fuel shortage in the beginning of the present year still remain closed. Everybody knows that the Act of 1944 which gave very great powers to Córas Iompair Éireann was passed after it was supposed to have been submitted to and received the approval of the people at a general election. During the discussion of the Bill in the House and on the platforms in the country, neither the Minister nor any member of the Government indicated that branch lines were to be closed down.
When the Bill was going through the House and when it was being discussed by the Government representatives in the subsequent general election it was explained that the additional debenture capital which was being sought under the terms of the Transport Bill at the time were for the purpose of enabling Córas Iompair Éireann to reconstruct the railway lines, to build railway stations, and to provide modern rolling stock. I invite the Minister to say whether at any time it was stated that it was the intention of the Government, under the terms of that legislation, to close down even one branch line or any station on any of the main lines. Apart from the powers that the Minister has under the Act and from the authority which may be given by him to Córas Iompair Éireann, this action of the company in closing down a number of branch lines certainly has not the approval of the people of the country or of Deputies.
The Minister has given particulars of the branch lines reopened or partially reopened. Of the 22 branch lines originally closed down, three are situated in the constituency of Leix-Offaly. One, the Birr-Roscrea branch, has been reopened after considerable local agitation. That is satisfactory so far as it goes. The Clara-Banagher line has only been partially reopened. I would be obliged if the Minister would give the reason why it has been only partially reopened. I understand that, following a recent fair held in the town of Banagher since the branch line has been partially reopened, most of the cattle bought at the fair were kept in the town until six o'clock in the evening because the necessary number of road service vehicles did not come along at the proper time; whereas if the line had been reopened for the carriage of live stock the cattle would have been transferred to Dublin or elsewhere not later than 1 p.m.
I suppose the Minister will say on behalf of the company that the line has been partially reopened. I wonder what Deputies will think about the way in which it is being carried on since it was partially reopened. A road freight service is actually running in competition with the railway line which is partially reopened, for the purpose, I suggest, of enabling the company at a later date to try to prove before a public inquiry or to the Minister that the line is not paying its way. How can it pay its way if the road freight service section of the same company is running in competition with the branch line?
The local people submitted a memorial to the chairman of Córas Iompair Éireann as far as 10th July last pleading that normal services should be fully restored in that area. Notwithstanding the statement made by the chairman on a previous occasion when addressing the shareholders of the company and the statements made by the Minister in the House, the reasonable request of the local people so far has not been complied with. Answering questions in the House in connection with the closing of branch lines in other areas, the Minister, on the 3rd July last, in reply to Deputy Murphy of West Cork, in regard to the branch lines closed down in that area, said:—
"None of the branch lines to which these questions relate has been closed otherwise than under an Emergency Powers Order. They cannot be closed permanently and they cannot be abandoned by the company unless there has been an order made under the Transport Acts."
That is in line with what the chairman of the company told the shareholders in relation to the branch line services in the Gresham Hotel on the 14th March, 1946. On that occasion the chairman of the company, dealing with the branch lines, said:-
"The branch lines have been reopened because we undertook not to use the temporary closing of them during the emergency as an excuse for closing them permanently."
That more or less fits in with the Minister's reply to Deputy Murphy on the 3rd July. If the Minister's reply was a correct one and if the chairman's attitude in 1946 was in line with it, why is it that these branch lines, which were closed owing to the fuel shortage in the early part of the year, have not been reopened? According to the Minister, a public inquiry must be held and the local people, if they so desire, given an opportunity of making their case at such an inquiry. No public inquiries have been held so far as the Clara-Banagher branch line or the Portlaoighise-Mountmellick line are concerned, and the people's wishes have been ignored.
In co-operation with my colleague, Deputy Flanagan, I made a request in July last to the company to have the Portlaoighise-Mountmellick line opened for running an excursion train for the All-Ireland football semi-final in which County Leix was interested. What were the reasons given by the chairman for refusing to carry out that reasonable request? In reply, the chairman said: (1) that the line had not been in use for a considerable time and, therefore, might require to be put in order by the chief engineer's department before passenger trains could be operated; (2) there was no oil-burning engine available; (3) there was a shortage of coaches. The main reason given by the chairman for still refusing to reopen that line is that, in the opinion of whoever advised him—not men with railway experience—the branch line had not been paying. If the latest reason given is the correct one, surely there is a case for a public inquiry. The chairman or his expert advisers— they are all accountants—should be brought before such a public inquiry and made to prove their case. In any case, in the meantime, the lines should be reopened until the Minister's conditions have been complied with.
I suspect there is a change of policy behind this whole matter and there is clear evidence to prove it. Here is some of the evidence. Last week at the Industrial Court in connection with the hearing of applications for improvements in the working conditions of railway men—and that court is constituted of representatives of railway workers and of the board of Córas Iompair Éireann—a question was addressed to Mr. Stewart, traffic manager of the company by Mr. Burns, representing the members of the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen. Here is the question and the answer:
Mr. Burns: You have suggested that the railways might have to close down. As an experienced railwayman, can you suggest that the country could be run without railways?
Mr. Stewart, who has been associated most of his life with the roadside of the undertaking, answered:
"I am coming to that view."
Now the general manager, Mr. Lemass, who was Mr. Stewart's boss if you like, put this trap question to Mr. Stewart and I am sure he had it prepared:
"Would it be cheaper for the country in operating its transport to operate it by road rather than by rail?"
To that Mr. Stewart replied:
"Here you are raising very important issues and I want to be very careful in my reply."
Naturally he would have to be careful in his reply, otherwise he might have to go before the general manager afterwards. He goes on to say:
"The position as I see it is this, that if these very enhanced payments have got to be met by the railway company in Ireland, then the operation of railways in Ireland will become a luxury which the country cannot afford."
I would ask the Minister to ponder on this very important statement, which follows:-
"—and the board and management of Córas Iompair Éireann will have to consider very seriously the continuance of the railway undertaking whether or not it would not be better to put all traffic on the roads".
I want to know whether the chairman of the railway company or any officials of the company have authority to close down the railways of this country without the prior approval of the Minister and of this House, if necessary? I suggest they have no such authority. How then could Mr. Stewart tell the committee that the board of Córas Iompair Éireann are carefully considering the question of putting all traffic on the roads? I want to know from the Minister, as a matter of major policy, whether it is proposed by the board of Córas Iompair Éireann to scrap the railways or whether he has had any proposals under consideration for scrapping the railways of this country and diverting the traffic from the branch lines and the main lines to the roads, thereby automatically increasing the cost of transport and the cost of living.
With regard to the branch lines that have been closed down, the case of Birr and Roscrea is a clear example of what will happen. Live stock that had to be carried by road were charged for at a rate not less than 100 per cent. more than the railway rate, when the railway was operating in that particular part of the country. I raised a question previously as to whether the Minister had any control over the road rates charged in areas where branch lines have been closed down. He admitted that he had certain power but that in view of the financial position of the company he had not exercised his power. He was allowing Córas Iompair Éireann to charge a road freight for live stock of 100 to 120 per cent. more than was previously charged on rail. This is supposed to be a suitable alternative service for railways but if these are the rates to be charged, I suggest that it is a very unsatisfactory alternative service for areas in which lines have been closed. This is a matter of policy and I would ask the Minister to make his policy and that of the Government clear on the matter.
I should like to join in the appeal to the Minister to make a statement as to the Government's intentions and on the action of Córas Iompair Éireann in closing down branch lines. I look upon this as a very grave matter for the people of my constituency. Within the last 12 months, a number of protest meetings have been held in the constituency which were attended by a representative of Córas Iompair Éireann. He there met merchants, traders and members of the general public and on each occasion he made an appeal for more business and more traffic by rail. In fact he was in the position that he came down as a representative of the company to put a pistol to the heads of the local traders and say, "Give us your business or else the branch lines will close down". I think that is a very mean and low type of policy for any company to operate and I am very sorry that the representative of the company gave expression to such a policy in Birr, Banagher, and other areas he visited in the constituency. The Minister knows well from these protest meetings that West Offaly is completely isolated.
I have in my possession a statement which shows that in 1906 we had a far more efficient rail service in the country than we have to-day. Instead of making progress in that regard we are going backwards. In 1906 we had a daily service in every part of Offaly. To-day we have the railway company abolishing these services despite the fact that the Transport Act of 1944 provides that an inquiry must be held before such lines are closed. I hold that in the case of the Clara and Banagher lines, no such inquiry was held. Neither was any inquiry held in the case of the Mountmellick-Portlaoighise line. When the Minister rises, I should be glad to hear from him what is the future policy of Córas Iompair Éireann with regard to these lines. I had occasion to make certain representations in regard to these lines and this morning I received from the public relations officer of Córas Iompair Éireann a letter, which states:—
"The general position about branch lines is that we simply have not got the fuel at present to reopen them generally for passengers and goods. Provision is being made only for special seasonal requirements which cannot be met otherwise than by rail. We are already eating into our coal reserves—burning more every week than we are currently importing. That is not a healthy position and we cannot make it worse by extension of rail services on branch lines otherwise than for the most vital needs. An increased service will be provided on the Clara-Banagher branch to meet beet season needs, but otherwise no immediate change is proposed."
Is that not a splendid ray of hope for the people of Banagher, Ferbane and Belmont, all of whose traffic was carried over this line formerly? In reference to the Mountmellick-Port-laoighise branch, he says that the branch will be reopened early in November to handle beet for the Thurles factory but for that purpose only. Are the citizens in these areas not entitled to an adequate transport service, both for passengers and merchandise of all kinds?
I think that this is a question which calls for immediate action by the Government. The people very much resent the action of Córas Iompair Éireann in depriving them of transport facilities which they have had for over 100 years. To-day we have a policy put into effect and sponsored by the Minister, or at any rate without any protest from the Minister, whereby a private individual, an official of a company, can deprive thousands of citizens of a means of transport which served them efficiently in the past. I should be glad if the Minister could take the necessary steps to see that Córas Iompair Éireann is compelled to reopen these lines, or else to see that inquiries will be held immediately at which it can be shown whether there is any justification for the closing down of these branch lines.
A branch line may be closed under the authority of an Emergency Powers Order as a temporary measure, or permanently, under the Railways Acts. Deputy Davin presumably knows the difference between a temporary closing under an Emergency Powers Order and a permanent closing under the Railway Acts. He mixed both up very cleverly in his speech, although I am quite certain there was no confusion in his own mind. The temporary closing of branch lines is due to the fuel shortage. You cannot run a railway without coal or fuel oil. You might be able to run them in Leix-Offaly on hot air, but not generally.
The position of Córas Iompair Éireann at the moment is that it has lower coal stocks than it had at this time last year. That position is partly due to the fact that certain economies which it was hoped to achieve in the reduction of passenger train services were not possible, due to the bus strike. It is also partially due to the fact that the company is disinclined to purchase more American coal. The American coal is very dear. The company is making heavy losses, and, if it were to purchase further dear coal and increase its losses, it would have to face the possibility of a further increase in its fares and freights. That is something which the company does not desire to do and which we do not desire it should have to do. The position is being eased by the conversion of engines to fuel oil. That conversion is proceeding rapidly, but the company is now entering the period of heaviest traffic. The transportation of beet, fuel and wheat and other cereal crops has to be effected at this time of the year, and the company cannot restore branch line services, with its present fuel supplies and its present equipment, at this period.
As regards permanent closing, I think Deputies must learn to try to face realities. Deputy Flanagan tells us that there was a daily railway service in 1906. What happened since 1906? Some guy invented the motor car. Before the railways were invented, there was probably a daily stage-coach service, but there is none at all now. The railway is losing traffic to the motor car and the inevitable consequence of its present difficulties is that more and more traffic will be lost to the private lorry, and traffic lost to the private lorry will never come back to the railway.
To its own lorries.
To the private lorry owned by the private trader to carry his own goods. Deputy Davin talked about the powers and privileges given to Córas Iompair Éireann under legislation. If I repealed that legislation, how long does Deputy Davin think the railways would last? Would they last a week? Deputy Davin knows quite well the answer to that question. The railways at present are running at a loss—they are losing money. The railways cannot continue to be run at a loss. I am sure that every railway worker understands fully the insecurity of the future of his job while the railway which is employing him is losing money.
You were to do good for them.
Certainly, and if I had time I would tell the Deputy something of what I did for them. The losses which the company is incurring cannot be recovered by increasing its freight charges or fares. It cannot recover them in that way because it has already lost to the private lorry a substantial amount of traffic which should be passing over its system, and, if it increases its fares, the incentive to traders to buy lorries for the transportation of their goods will be increased and the traffic lost in that way will not be recovered to the railway company. It would therefore be a fatal blow to the future of the railway system if a further increase in freights had to be contemplated.
I want to make it clear that the railways will not be subsidised. If they do not operate at a profit, then their fate is sealed. I believe the railways can be made economic. I have fought to preserve the railways more than any other man in this country. When I came into office here, the Irish railway system was on the point of collapse. It was only a matter of months before the last train ran over our railways. By legislation and other measures, I kept them going until now. I believe they can be made an economic proposition. I believe they can be made to pay their way, provided they get time to carry out the reorganisation which they contemplate and the re-equipment which they have planned. I am not sure that they are going to get that time. We had hoped that by now reorganisation and re-equipment would be well under way, but the difficulties of the situation, the problems arising out of our present position, the higher cost of fuel which the company has to meet, the higher cost of materials and the higher wages the company is paying—all the factors tending to increase its operating costs—are taking place, while, at the same time, the possibilities of other forms of transport are increasing. It is, therefore, necessary for the railway company to cut out every uneconomic element in its system.
I have never undertaken that branch lines will not be closed. Deputy Davin misrepresented what was said about the Transport Act, 1944. That Act did contain provision for the closing of branch lines. I say that a branch line cannot be closed by the company permanently, unless I, as Minister for Industry and Commerce, answerable to this Dáil, make an Order authorising it to do so; but I want to make it clear that I will not oppose an application by the company where it is quite clear that the maintenance of the branch line or the railway station in question is going to impose on the rest of the system a burden of cost which may bring it to an end.
Deputy Flanagan referred to a proposal put by the company to traders in a town in Offaly, to the effect that if they would undertake to send their traffic by rail the company would keep the line open, as a threat to the traders of that town and equivalent to putting a pistol to their heads. What did he expect the company to say to them: "Do not send your traffic by rail and we will still keep the railway there as a public monument"? Does he expect them to keep a railway open with no traffic? Surely that was the fairest proposition that could be put to any traders? Are there in Offaly traders who seriously believe that they can have a railway there whenever they want to use it, when their own goods are being carried by their own lorries or by public hauliers' lorries whenever it is more convenient for them? Surely no Deputy thinks it possible to run a railway system on that basis? I said I believe there is a future for the railways provided the company gets time to carry out reorganisation and re-equipment.
What about Mr. Stewart's statement?
There is nothing in what I am saying now which is in conflict with that statement. The company, as Deputy Davin knows well, cannot permanently close or abandon a line without the authority of a Ministerial Order. The company is fully entitled to consider what application it will make under the Act and in accordance with the provisions of the Act. So far as these railway branch lines which are temporarily closed are concerned, I cannot say off-hand if the company has made application, or proposes to make application, for their permanent closing or for the reduction of services on them. If they do make that application it will be considered on its merits. It will certainly not be considered on the basis that the company must keep branch lines going even if the traders of any town want to use their own lorries for the transport of goods or if its maintenance means that the cost of operating the whole system is being increased and its economy being jeopardised. Having said that, I want to make it quite clear that the branches now closed are closed under the authority of an Emergency Powers Order—closed temporarily because of temporary difficulties—and that does not necessarily imply that any decision has been made as to the future of these branch lines.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 16th October, 1947.