Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 20 May 1948

Vol. 110 No. 14

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 6—General (Resumed).

Question again proposed:—
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

Having listened to the debate on the Budget for the past few weeks and having observed the various holes picked in it by the members of the Opposition, I find it very difficult to understand the attitude of the ordinary Deputy. I can understand the attitude of ex-Ministers, who find themselves, after 16 years in luxury, with State cars and all the rest of it, now once more in opposition. Some members of the Fianna Fáil Party talked of the Minister wielding an axe. I hope that he will wield that axe again and cut off the £500 per year pensions that these ex-Ministers now enjoy and which they voted to themselves when they had a majority in this House. I hope that he will wield it in Arus an Uachtarán and let it fall heavily on the £52,000 per year which the country pays there. Far back in 1932 Fianna Fáil told us that the President was only a rubber stamp. I cannot see why we need a rubber stamp at all. These are the directions in which economies should be made and the money saved should be devoted to the more necessitous sections of our community.

Deputy Allen, in trying to defend the Supplementary Budget, introduced here by Deputy Aiken, who was then Minister for Finance and who has now run away out of the House altogether, said that that Budget was a sound one over which the Government could stand, but that it was misrepresented to the electorate by the then Opposition for political reasons. Surely, the misrepresentation which has taken place in this House by the Opposition now on the present Budget is purely for political reasons. I am perfectly satisfied with the Budget. Under it people in rural Ireland will get an increase of 5/- per week and people in the towns an increase of 2/6. Hitherto, under the Fianna Fáil régime, these people were on home assistance. The aged people were put in the same category. I am glad that the voucher system, the pauper system, is going. That is what it meant in the country.

The former Minister for Finance came here and boasted about the saving made on the teachers' strike that lasted over seven months in this city. During that time the children were running wild. That was all the Government thought of at that time— the saving of what would have been paid to the teachers. But they had money enough to give to those who acted as blacklegs on their comrades in the Irish National Teachers' Organisation. Deputy O'Rourke and other Deputies of Fianna Fáil who are national teachers walked into the lobbies on several occasions and voted against their own organisation. They said they were members of the Irish National Teachers' Organisation, but they had to vote against it. Will Deputy O'Rourke interrupt me as he was interrupting here yesterday?

With regard to the short-wave station, people in rural Ireland who occupy thatched cabins do not need a short-wave station. The majority of the people are not able to buy a wireless. Anyone who has a wireless is lucky. Perhaps he has friends in Britain who can send home the price of one.

Then we have Aer Lingus. I have in front of me a newspaper reference to the great cargo that left Collinstown on the 13th of this month. One Dublin evening paper refers to the ton of seagulls' eggs from Lambay Island that went by Aer Lingus for London hotels. Is it possible, after all we heard about agriculture from Fianna Fáil, that we have nothing to export by Aer Lingus only seagulls' eggs? Does that represent Fianna Fáil agricultural policy, with all the inspectors they had going around the country forcing the farmers to till? In a constituency almost up against Deputy Allen's place one inspector took over a holding without authority, but that inspector was brought to book.

Along with other Deputies, Deputy Allen is of the opinion that people in rural Ireland should not see the pictures and a man in the country should not have a cheap pint. The Deputy talked about 1939 and 1947 and he referred to all the drink consumed. Who consumed that drink? Was it the road workers, the agricultural workers, or the forestry workers? Not at all. What they were getting would not keep body and soul together. The tourists from Northern Ireland and England did most of the drinking. I can tell Deputy Allen that the publichouses in rural Ireland would be closed only for the change of Government. Fianna Fáil put up the price of the bottle of stout and the unfortunate agricultural workers could not afford to drink one. There was wholesale unemployment in the bottling stores.

We have heard a lot about emigration. What did Fianna Fáil say when thousands of our young men and women were going across the Channel? I told the last Taoiseach that there were queues outside the Permit Office looking for permits to go abroad as nothing could be done for them here. They even had difficulty getting passports. They had to smuggle themselves into the North of Ireland in order to get to Britain. There was nothing about emigration from Fianna Fáil at that time. Now they tell us it is on the increase. I have in my possession one of the labels they put on the young women and men from this country. The ex-Taoiseach who now talks about Partition did not say much about it while he was in office.

Over there is the Republican Party that talked so much during the election. The people of Wexford did not send me here to vote Fianna Fáil into power. I have no apology to make to the members of Fianna Fáil clubs in my constituency or to that rag, the Irish Press. We, as representing the working classes, had no option but to put out the Government that failed the people for 16 years. They got too stale. They were up in the clouds—airminded. They could not be seen in a constituency that time, but they are very busy now all over the country. I see that in mid-Roscommon the ex-Minister for Justice described the Coalition as racketeers.

We are now discussing the Budget.

We are not racketeers at all. I believe there are some honest Irishmen in this Government. The Budget has been received in my constituency very well. I never heard anyone condemning it. With the exception of the Fianna Fáil Party, all sections of the people are satisfied. The motorists are not grousing. They say the tax on petrol should be 6d., making it even money. They are well able to pay. They bought petrol in the black market for 10/- a gallon. When one remembers the fields full of motor cars at Punchestown, Tramore and at other race meetings, one can realise how little the Budget affects motorists. We know they could not get to these places on eight gallons of petrol, and we are aware they were getting the petrol from some other source.

I congratulate the Minister on having the courage to tackle the serious position he found this country in when the change of Government took place. People were anxious after the election to know who would form the Government, where they would get the money and how they could administer affairs economically. It was the greatest shock for Fianna Fáil and their followers when the Minister came here and gave necessary reliefs to the poor. Fianna Fáil increased the cost of cigarettes and tobacco and they also increased the admission fee to the pictures. One Deputy, who was then on this side of the House, said the old age pensioners were getting as much as the State could allow. He did not get back to the Dáil, because he lost his seat in Drogheda.

Take the turf workers. We hear a lot about them. But what about the dockers? They have made sacrifices during the past five or six years but in this city, in Waterford and Cork, and other places, they are employed in unloading the coal where they get a decent wage. They get more in a day than turf workers would get in a week. The turf worker had to go on the turf because he could not get away and it was the same with the agricultural worker. If we have freedom, we should let a man go where he likes, where he will do better for himself or where he will get the best market. That is freedom. But the agricultural worker and the turf-worker were put into fetters so that they could not stir and they had no place to go except on to the bogs. They left the bogs and there were strikes on the bogs and the conditions on the bogs were not all that the Fianna Fáil Deputies think they were. They had to leave the bogs because conditions there were not up to the mark. If you were to mention turf in the county I come from to the women I would not tell you the language they would use. Prayers were said for the ex-Taoiseach and the Fianna Fáil Party by the women of Ireland because of the wet turf dripping out of the bags. And then you talk about hand-won turf. Why do the Fianna Fáil Deputies want more handwon turf up in the Phoenix Park and in the dumps in Wexford and everywhere else? Because some members of the Fianna Fáil Party put it there and they were getting a good whack out of it. Then the coal merchant was getting 6d. out of every ton sold by the other poor fellows, 6d. for nothing.

The sooner the Opposition gets going to help the Government to right the wrongs which they committed, the better. I remember one promise they made, though it is a long time back. One Minister that is gone out said in my own town, in 1932, that he would put a shovel at every man's door and that the man who did not work would be sent to gaol. That was Dr. Ryan.

They are sneering and jeering at the Labour Party, but why should we vote for a Government that brought in standstill Orders and who told us that the road workers should not get more than 50/- a week? Deputy MacEntee cries salt tears, crocodile tears, for the widows and orphans, but he did not give his sanction when it was agreed by Tipperary County Council to give the workers an extra twopence per day. It is hard for the ordinary worker to have to listen to these people who are using petrol in State cars to bring their wives out to buy ice-cream. They could not even walk that far. When those Deputies stood on the platform they did not tell the people that they would not grant extra pensions. They said: "Put us in and we will do more than that." But they got 16 years to do it and they failed. A quarter of a million people voted for the change of Government, and that should answer the people to-day who say that they expect elections at any minute, and who are going around the country saying: "We have the men in the Dáil. You must pull together, get the local Press, and show that the organisation is alive." We know all that is going on and it is no secret to us.

It seems to me that this is rather far away from the Budget.

Deputy MacEntee, Deputy Lemass, and other speakers on that side were a hell of a long way away from the Budget too. They did not come near the Budget at all. They can only see their own point of view, which is that they want to impose duties on the poor people. But there may be some other critics on the far side who want to get in after me. This debate has been going on for a long time.

This Budget is a good Budget, as far as I am concerned, and I am a working man. It relieves those classes which I represent, and I am satisfied. I know that when the next Budget is introduced we will have another improvement, not alone in the old age pensions or in the widows' and orphans' pensions but in children's allowances and we can do that by scrapping all the unnecessary things that are going on at the moment. As Deputy Davin told us last night, there were 13 people working in Aer Lingus who were not Irish at all. They were brought here to get the fat of the land while our own people were queueing up at the labour exchange. But we are going to find employment for them. It will not be long until the employment schemes are in operation, but the people who were over here for 16 years could do nothing except to bring in Americans. The answer of the Minister for Social Welfare to Deputy Corry was very sound, that the ratepayers of Cork would gain by the transfer and I am sure that the ratepayers would be glad. Deputy Corry and the other Deputy from Cork, when they moved the question of the rates on the adjournment, had to sit down and they got a hell of a drop. And when the Official Report of the debates of the Dáil is read in Cork City they will get a greater drop. It is a good thing that what we say here is put on record and can be used against us again.

I would like the Deputy to keep that in mind.

It is not like the local committees where the Press have to drop their pencils when the members say "this is in committee" and it is a good thing that in Dáil Éireann you can show them in ten years' time what they have said. They do not like plain, honest facts. I believe that the present Taoiseach is an honest, honourable man. If he were not he would not come in here. He is a man of position and he is not here for any personal gain, but a man who left his profession outside. The men in the Front Benches are capable and qualified——

The fact is that they are there, and would the Deputy come to the Budget?

These men had to provide the first Budget that was ever made in this State and I am sure that their experience is as good as that of the people who are now over in America talking about Partition. The country is satisfied with the Budget, and the sooner the Fianna Fáil Deputies get that at the back of their heads the better, for no matter what slander they say, this Budget has Fianna Fáil beaten to the ropes.

We have listened to a long drawn-out debate on the Budget. It was not until this evening that we were treated to gems of Irish oratory by Deputy O'Leary. As I listened to speeches from two of the smaller groups I asked myself are those the gentlemen who came before the public during the election campaign and promised them revolutionary changes if they were returned to power? The Clann na Poblachta Party promised that if they were returned to power they would spend so many millions on afforestation. Is there any reference in the Budget to all that money that was to be spent? They promised, among other things, to end emigration, and Deputy McQuillan the other day referred to the fact that the people of Connemara have not sufficient transport to get them away from the country. What is the position now? Have they done anything to end emigration? Has the position in regard to emigration improved or worsened because of the change of Government? Naturally, they will tell the people that they are not in power, but they cannot convince the people that they cannot have power or have not enough power to force the Government in this matter if they wished. Have they said anything about it? Not a word.

Deputy Cowan appears to be greatly concerned about Deputies' allowances. He has stated in this House that he is getting too much. If the Deputy has any qualms of conscience, I would suggest to him and to his nine colleagues that instead of transferring the allowance to their Party funds, if they are doing it as they promised, they should transfer it to the Minister's account. I am quite sure the Minister would not object, and I am quite sure the House would not object. But have they done it? Deputy McQuillan, I am sure, is satisfied that he is overpaid. Not only is he looking after the interests of his own constituency, but he goes around Connemara.

Is not that my business?

With regard to the other small Parties who claim to represent the small farmers, in the course of a long speech by Deputy Commons the other day he failed to mention the effects of the Budget on the people he represents. Is he satisfied that this Budget will mean a reduction or an increase in the cost of living for those people? Is he of opinion, are the other Deputies in his Party of opinion, that the small farmers are satisfied with this Budget in so far as it affects butter? They have to sell their butter at at least 1/- less than it was a month ago. Evidently, he can convince the people who sent him here, the people of Mayo, that the milk producers will continue to produce milk at less than the cost of production. Next winter, how will he like to tell the people who put him here, when they find that the towns are short of milk, that they can put cheap beer and cheap porter in their tea? What answer will he get from those people?

With regard to old age pensions, in the course of the election campaign, the Clann na Poblachta Party promised 25/-. They are now quite satisfied with 17/6. I am glad the old age pensioners are getting something, if they are getting something.

Mr. Collins

It is the first time it was admitted.

It is the first time it was admitted.

If they are getting something.

Are you doubtful about it?

If they are getting something. Let us be sure that to get 3d. they do not have to pay 5d. Time alone will tell. With regard to the closing-down of the air lines, I can well understand the anxiety of the present Government to close down those lines. They could not be expected to agree that the name of Lemass should be blazoned around the globe. We could not expect that.

Mr. Collins

Was he going to start a Lemass airways?

There were many references to the shortwave station. I consider, and every holder of a wireless licence in this country considers, that the action of the Government in this matter was shabby. In regard to the increase of the tax on petrol, as a user of a private car, it will not affect me very much. I do not mind that.

Do you get an allowance?

With regard to its effect on Ferguson tractors, something should be done about it. Deputy O'Higgins stated the other day that arrangements are being made to convert those tractors so that they will consume kerosene or t.v.o. If the Deputy has any information about it he should pass it on. I do not think it can be done with the Ferguson tractor.

We shall. I am afraid we will have a long period of waiting. With regard to the decrease in the Army Estimate of £750,000, Deputy McQuillan is very anxious to have the Estimate cut down but Deputy McQuillan reminds me very much of the bold bad boy who, on the first day he was sent to school, tried to get his own way and was chastised by the teacher and, for ever after, bore a grudge against the teacher.

To what is the Deputy referring?

In regard to the Army, I think it is foolish, if it is not fit. Must not the impression be created abroad that we are not prepared to defend ourselves in the event of war? If the Minister is satisfied that that impression will not be created abroad, then I wish him the best of luck.

All through the debate great stress has been laid on what was said during the recent election and the promises made during the election have been related to the Budget. It would be well that Deputies on the opposite benches should realise that the Parties on this side have formed the Government, rightly or wrongly, consciously or unconsciously, by the votes of the people. Therefore, it is not good policy on the part of the Party opposite to use such terms as "satellites", "conglomeration of Parties", "splinter Parties", "Fine Gael Parties", which have been used all through the debate. It will be agreed by all sensible men in the House and by the people generally that if this country is to make any progress in solving such problems as unemployment and housing, it will require the goodwill and co-operation of the Government, of the members of the Party opposite and of the people generally if any progress is to be made. It would be a mere waste of time for any Government to try to cure these problems unless they have that goodwill and co-operation.

This country is too small: it is comprised of less than three million souls. If you take out the women and the children you will find that the wealth of this country depends upon the productive capacity of about 700,000 souls. It is a great record to say that, in addition to carrying on our ordinary operations in industry or commercial life, we can afford to subscribe almost £68,000,000 per annum by way of taxation. That is equivalent to almost £2,500,000 per county. Just imagine the smallest little county—County Louth—having to put up £2,500,000 per annum in order to carry on the Government. Therefore the present Minister for Finance deserves great congratulation on having selected the road that will lead us eventually to a reduction of the taxation that has existed during the past 15 or 16 years. Every man of common sense knows that high taxation is not conducive to providing or increasing employment. I would ask the members of the Opposition in particular, and the members of the InterParty Government as well, to remember that this little country is not a great empire with vast resources at its disposal. It has done very well through difficult and dangerous times during the last 15 years. This old country, Dark Rosaleen, in my opinion requires a little rest, a little breathing space, so that she can rehabilitate and recuperate herself so as to be in a better position to give a little more comfort to those who find themselves uncomfortable.

There is not much point in referring to the promises made by Clann na Poblachta, the Labour Parties, or others. It is an old saying that the wise man changes his opinion, the fool never. There has been a reduction in the Budget and that is good business from the national point of view. The fact that the Minister has saved £6,000,000 or £8,000,000 does not mean that he is putting that money into his pocket or locking it in some hole or secret corner in the country. It means in effect that instead of taking that £8,000,000 into the common basket, to be doled out by civil servants at great cost, he is leaving that money to be diffused amongst the population. That is good business. I am sure the people with whom that money is left will apply it and make greater use of it than if it were put into the National Exchequer to be doled out according as it appeared expedient to the Government.

There may be certain things which one could criticise. One is the increased tax on petrol and the other is the unemployment contribution that will have to be paid by workers and employers. Beyond that, on the whole, this is a very good Budget. Reference has been made to the fact that the Government does not propose to proceed with the saving of turf to the same extent as it was proceeded with during the last seven or eight years. I would remind Deputies that wars make many changes, not alone in this country, but in all countries. Some people make fortunes as a result of the outbreak of war, while other people lose fortunes. Some people make fortunes when the war ends and others lose them. Certain people get employment when war breaks out and the same people lose employment when war ends. That is not peculiar to this country: it is universal. I would remind, especially Deputies who represent Galway and Mayo and other turfproducing counties, that I myself, as Deputy for Louth, could have criticised the Government during the six years of the war, because there were hundreds of dockers in Dundalk who never turned a shovel during those six years. I did not do that, as I knew it was not the Government's fault: they could not bring in cargoes of coal when the coal was not to be had.

In the same manner, I cannot see why the Deputies of Galway and Mayo should criticise the Government now because they are not producing turf at the same rate as during the war. Do those who speak in that strain expect that the people along the eastern sea-board, if they wish to use coal, are not entitled to get that coal, more especially in view of the fact that they have to keep up their harbours at great expense? That applies along the whole eastern seaboard—Dundalk, Drogheda, Wexford and also to Limerick, Cork, Tralee, Ballina and Sligo. There will be increased trade going into those ports, more or less at the expense of the turf-cutting areas. But that is what war does: war has no respect for persons or nations. I am of opinion that the whole turf criticism has been magnified out of all proportion to the situation as it really exists. Though I am not in a turf area, I can apply the experience gained in other directions to what the position is in reality in those counties. Everyone knows that, as a result of the boom in the turf business during those years, the small farmers of Galway went into it 100 per cent. over and above what they did prior to the outbreak of war. If this turf industry is not being carried on to the same extent now, it does not mean they are going to starve, but simply that they will make less money than they made before. They are not going to starve. They lived before this boom came and, please God, they will live after it.

In further connection with that I want to say, as a working man who knows as much as any other man, that I do not think it is good policy to be asking the Government to provide work for men overnight simply because they happen to lose their work as a result of the war being finished. I do not believe in that. I myself had to travel the roads and the towns and the cities of this country when I had no work with my boss. I did not go across the water to the then Minister for Industry and Commerce, whoever he may have been. I went like a man and looked for work. There is too much of this kind of thing going on—everybody who loses employment thinks that the Minister for Industry and Commerce has got to provide him with alternative employment overnight. No Government can do that. Employment can only be provided through the goodwill and co-operation of the workers, employers, and all concerned. That is the only way the problem can be solved.

Take the case of housing as applied to this Budget. I should like to refer to a few facts and to reiterate the appeal that has been made in this House by the Minister and which, unfortunately to the detriment of this country, has been and will be misrepresented all over the country. I refer to his appeal for the stabilisation of wages and salaries. As a working man I reiterate that appeal. I consider that we cannot stabilise prices until we stabilise the costs of production. That is especially applicable to the question of houses. The Government must provide money in this Budget to provide houses —and God knows the people for whom the majority of these houses will be built are not millionaires; they are our own class, kith and kin. They are very poor people—some of them on the dole. In connection with this matter of increased prices I would ask how, in the name of common sense, is a man on the dole or with two or three pounds a week going to pay 15/- or £1 a week rent for houses which, at the moment, cannot be put up under a minimum cost of at least £1,000. The same types of houses could have been built some 30 or 40 years ago for £120. There must be reason in all these things.

I would appeal to everyone in this country who at the moment is fairly comfortable to be content with his position so as to enable whatever Minister for Finance may be here to make the people who are at present uncomfortable a little more comfortable. That is the real Christian spirit which should permeate throughout the length and breadth of this country. There is no other way to succeed if we want to improve the position of thousands of our people here who have to live on fixed incomes—not to mention the old age pensioner, the widow, and all the other sections of our people who are not getting increases commensurate with the cost of living and will not get them so long as certain sections are selfish enough to look for everything and, as the saying goes, give little thought to the position of the poorer sections of our people. Therefore, whether I am misrepresented or not, I agree with the Minister in his appeal. Some people seem to be afraid to speak in that strain because they might be twitted that they want to reduce the salaries or wages. I do not want to reduce the salaries or wages. Neither does the Minister nor, in fact, does any Deputy of this House. But there is such a thing as reason and there is such a thing as the capacity of this country and its present resources. This little country is not a vast empire with great resources behind it. We all know what it is—an island in the Atlantic. Being an island it cannot expand one yard and it has got to live directly within its own confines. Therefore, whether or not we have in this House a very strong Opposition Party, I would appeal to them to remember their responsibilities to the people.

Although you are not the Government to-day you represent a very large section of our people, due to the numbers of your party in this House. If you want this country to succeed, if you want it to overcome the difficulties that lie ahead, and there are difficulties lying ahead, whether you look at it from the economic, industrial or commercial sphere, you will have to work in harmony with the Government that is in power. That Government has been elected by the people. We, who were members of the House, did not look for a general election. It was held 18 months before it should have been held. The only man responsible for our being in office to-day is the ex-Taoiseach, Deputy Eamon de Valera, and every honest Deputy on the far side must admit that. We are here as the Government by the votes of the people, and we ask for and are entitled to receive from the Opposition a little sympathy and a recognition of the difficult task which we have to face. We want a little of the same co-operation which we gave when in opposition. There are Deputies listening to me who in the past actually complimented me on my remarks in this House when the late Government was in power. I want the same spirit now from the Deputies opposite. There is no need to run away from your principles in doing that. You are not doing it for the Minister for Finance or for the Government. You are doing it for the country, in which we are all interested.

Taking it all round, I think it will be agreed that this is a good Budget in the sense that it has reduced taxation. I believe reduced taxation will add to the prosperity of this country. It will give a little encouragement to those people who are engaged in industry, and who have to give employment, that the amount of money to be taken from them this year will be less than it has been in previous years. I am not here to criticise unduly the late Government. I was always prepared to admit that anything they did was done by them in the conviction that it was in the best interests of the people. The people have now decided otherwise. Therefore I ask the members of the Opposition, for the sake of this country, to give the same co-operation and to extend the same sympathy to the Government as we extended to them when they were in power.

I do not think I am parsing his words when I say that the Minister for Agriculture, when explaining his change of attitude in regard to the glasshouse scheme, suggested that he felt there was a certain obligation on a new Government. Their action was not merely for the sake of showing their disagreement with the policies that their predecessors had instituted or inaugurated, not merely for the sake of being able to say: "Our predecessors have brought this scheme into operation. Therefore, it is not good enough for us. We are not going to stand over it because it was something established by them." The Minister for Agriculture, at least in his explanation of his change of attitude, suggested that that was not his position. He honestly believed that the scheme in question should not have been continued but when he went into the matter and found that there were specific commitments on the part of his predecessors he at once reversed his previous decision and permitted the scheme to continue. I daresay that the Minister also, having some knowledge of the conditions in Connemara and the Irish-speaking districts—whatever doubts he may have felt about this scheme—must have put into the scale the fact that a decision had definitely been come to by a previous Government which would affect and which it was hoped would benefit a considerable number of the poorest section of our people in whom we are all interested. In fact, the Minister for Agriculture said:—

"I realise that it is not the duty of a new Minister to behave like a bull in a china shop, simply to upset everything that has been done before merely for the sake of change, for showing his power and that he is in a position to do these things."

The Minister for Finance has shown a somewhat different attitude. Perhaps one has to excuse him on the ground that he has a certain responsibility and, if Ministers for Finance did not take their stand on reducing the burden on the taxpayer and leaving as much money as possible in his pocket, they are not likely to get other members of the Government to undertake that responsibility. At the same time, the Minister has had previous experience in a high Government office. He has been a Front Bench member of the House for a great many years. He has expressed from time to time sympathy with proposals for national development and has, I think, asked for approbation for the steps that he himself took to institute the Shannon scheme, one of the biggest projects carried out by his Government. Now he comes along in the most deliberate manner and, without any satisfactory reasons, he simply sabotages—there is no other word to describe his attitude—some of the projects that, from the point of view of our position in the world, can be honestly held to be of the first importance. It was pointed out to him in the debate yesterday that the Shannon scheme was unable to pay the interest on the capital allowed to it over a long period of years even though the Electricity Supply Board have the monopoly of the production of electricity in this State and have various other advantages.

When we decided to establish a transatlantic air service we were fully aware that it was a very heavy responsibility. Nothing is easier than to produce arguments from the narrow financial and budgetary point of view as to why large schemes of that nature could not be gone ahead with. But if in this country the Government of the day is not going to show a progressive attitude to keep the country in the forefront in modern development, is private enterprise going to do it? This is not a country which has had an industrial tradition like other countries. This is not a country which has had enterprise or initiative of such a character as to expect that considerable schemes will be forthcoming merely by the effort of private enterprise. It is surely recognised in the modern world, and all the newer States that we hear of, such as Australia, boast of the fact, that from year to year the investment of the State itself increases in proportion to the amount of private investment, because it is recognised that there are community services, national services and national productive work which cannot be provided in any other way. This project of the transatlantic air service was important in establishing direct connection between this country and the greatest modern Power, the United States of America. It is surely of importance to us, and would have been a valuable investment, to establish the closest connection possible in that way.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted and 20 Deputies being present,

We see that countries like Belgium, which were overrun and occupied for many years during the war and which now have great difficulty in establishing themselves economically, have turned their attention to developing the closest possible relations with the United States of America. We see them establishing air lines. We see them devoting the greatest possible attention to the tourist industry. We see them sending business missions, trade missions and tourist missions to the United States of America to develop trade. We in this country have always prided ourselves on the fact that we had a large body of our kith and kin in the United States. In this present age, as is well known, their influence is greater than at any previous time or perhaps than at any future time, because the next and succeeding generations will probably not have the same interest in this country, as they will be further removed from it, as the present generation which at least knows of the close connection between the two countries during the struggle for independence and before that—countries which still have so many living bonds of attachment between them.

The Minister simply came along and said that if he could do anything to stop this enterprise he would do it. He has done it. As to the Constellations about which so much propaganda was made regarding their enormous cost, the Minister and the critics will have the satisfaction of knowing that, although they have dispersed the highly technical staffs which were being built up and have dismissed this wonderful imaginative enterprise without giving it a year's trial, the Minister has been enabled to balance the Budget by getting a profit on the planes that have been sold.

The latest rumour is that we are negotiating for the sale to the Turks of the short-wave station equipment which was practically erected. I suppose it will be a satisfaction to the gentlemen on the Government Benches to know when the war breaks out, if it does break out—it seems to be breaking out already between Islam and the Jews—that the equipment of the short-wave station, which would have carried the voice of Ireland around the globe, will be used to give forth Mohammedan and Islamic propaganda in the holy war they are proposing to undertake. In any case, that is the rumour that is going around. I suppose the Minister will find it hard to secure a purchaser for the short-wave station equipment unless he can get some Government to purchase it.

I cannot let the opportunity pass without referring to the rather petty economies which the Minister has sought to bring about in the Department of Education. These economies were not mentioned by the Minister in charge of the Department when placing the Estimate for it before the House. I hope that is not a foretaste of what is to happen in regard to other Estimates. In the list of economies which the Minister put before us in his Budget statement, he has computed that there is still some £1,100,000 in the way of economies which he does not choose to give particulars of until he has the amount safely in the bag. Let us hope that, at least before the Estimates connected with the Departments in which these economies are being made come before us for discussion, the Minister will enlighten us as to what exactly the economies are. It is stated in the Budget statement that national school work will be continued, but presumably the work of building other schools is to be held up:—

"The programme of State building in the present year, apart from works actually in progress and national schools, will be restricted to projects of an urgent nature which cannot be deferred."

There is a certain number of vocational schools in contemplation for erection. Having regard to the fact that the Minister on more than one occasion, I think, put his name to a motion in this House for the raising of the school-leaving age from 14 to 16, it is certainly an extraordinary preliminary for him in his new post to start off by reducing, or deleting completely, a provision for the expansion of the school-leaving age through providing vocational education facilities in Dublin City and elsewhere.

There was provision also for an increased grant for the heating and cleaning of national schools. The Minister for Education made the feeble rejoinder when taxed with this yesterday evening on the Education Estimate: "Why was the Estimate for the heating and the cleaning of schools increased in this particular year?" It has been increased on several occasions and is now very much greater than it was before the war. There is the expense of providing fuel. Deputies speak of the advantages and comfort of coal. Managers provide either coal or turf, and those of them who choose to have coal will have to pay dearly for it. The difficulties in regard to providing cleaners for schools are growing, and of keeping the out-offices of schools in repair are very serious. The managers, in a great many cases, try to carry out their responsibilities. I think it is the duty of the State to give them the utmost possible aid in doing that work.

It is an extraordinary thing that, at a time when the Minister for Health is setting up so many councils—quite recently he set up another one to deal with matters of child health—the Minister for Finance, who apparently has bowed to all the expenditure which it must be foreseen will come from the legislation that has already been passed dealing with health—not to speak at all of the recommendations that may come from these councils—is prepared to face that expenditure, and at the same time cavils at the comparatively small additional expenditure, having regard to the size of the Education Vote, of £25,000 for the cleaning of schools. There is no subject on which we have heard more criticism and condemnation in this House than that children have to deal with that at all. The managers and teachers are compelled to ask the children to clean the schools. If we cannot take the responsibility over completely—and I am not in favour of taking away from the managers any responsibilities that they have—then I think the State, by being fairly generous to them, will be in a stronger position to insist that they on their part must carry out their responsibilities.

The Minister has made small and very minor economies in regard to films. We have had talk in this House for a great many years about the importance of having a national film industry. That is a very big undertaking. From a Minister who is able to slash, right and left, projects of the nature that I referred to in my opening remarks, it would be too much to expect that he could ever look favourably on the building up of an Irish film industry. It cannot be said that the last Government were extravagant in this matter. Their decision was that such a project should be left to private enterprise, very largely subject to whatever assistance might be given, say, by way of the provision of a studio, but that in the main the building up of an Irish film industry would have to be undertaken by private enterprise and not by the Government. The suggestion is that, from the point of view of advancing the Irish language and of meeting the grievances of those who felt that nothing whatever was being done by a Government which, presumably, favoured the national language as we did: that nothing was being done by the Government to advance the progress of Irish in the films and that nothing was being done to provide educational films. The Minister, whether by way of showing that the Department of Education must have tribute levied on it in order to make up his bagful of economies, has come down on this project, and also on the arrangements in relation to Irish historical records in foreign collections. That is quite a temporary matter which could not continue very long. Most of the work, I think, has been done in the Spanish collection, and why the Minister, or why the Minister for Education, should come down on that particular project is quite beyond my comprehension.

We have had the belated admission from the Minister that the 1939 standards of living cannot be obtained at present by those who seek for increased remuneration. The only fault that I have to find with that declaration by the Minister is that it seems to be entirely at variance with the attitude that he took up for so many years when in opposition in this House, and with the attitude that he took up immediately prior to his assuming office when he tried to make the people of this country believe that his predecessors were defrauding—to use his own words—the old age pensioners and others of their full rights by not allowing them compensation to the extent that would put them in exactly the same position as they were in pre-war. The Minister has now completely veered round from that position. Are we to take it, then, that the Minister did not believe that that could be done, but that he was prepared to use any argument by propaganda against a Government which he also wrongfully charged with being responsible for the reduction in the value of the £ from 20/- to 8/-? The Minister knows very well that economic influences in the world outside were such that it was impossible for his predecessors, or for any Government, to prevent this huge aggregation of purchasing power, to prevent that purchasing power from becoming more active and, in the steps which they took by way of taxation, to try to gather up some of that spare purchasing power. Nobody was more critical than the Minister. He wanted to have it both ways. On the one hand, he would criticise the Government of the day for failing to give the people full compensation and to bring them back to the standards which they were accustomed to enjoy in 1939.

On the other hand, when the Government, in order to try to stem the tide of that inflation about which he waxed so eloquent, took the steps that experience in other countries has shown to be the only steps that can effectively deal with the reduced spending power of the community, he was of course the most severe critic of these measures. Now he comes forward with his own Budget and it is interesting to see how his performances compare with his promises. I can see nothing in this Budget to indicate that the old age pensioners or any other classes of the community are going to be brought up to the 1939 standard. Neither can I see that the inflationary pressure about which the Minister waxed so eloquent and the reduction in the value of the £ sterling, are going to be in the slightest degree improved as a result of the proposals in this Budget.

Deputy O'Leary and his confreres may take consolation from the statement, which has been alluded to so often in the debate, at the conclusion of the Minister's statement, where he says:—

"Until supplies generally expand, increases in wages, salaries and money incomes can only result in raising prices still further."

It is extraordinary that the Minister only discovered that when he took over the portfolio of Finance.

I discovered it five years ago.

The Minister went on to say:—

"To arrest and reverse the inflationary trend, to which wage and salary increases and the present high level of profits in rent contribute, is a matter of prime urgency in the national interest. Substantial wage and salary increases already secured by all classes of workers, with such further advantages as shorter hours, paid holidays, children's allowances and other increases in social services, have gone as far as is possible, in present circumstances, to meet the claims of social justice and I would make a most earnest appeal to all employees not to seek further increases in monetary remuneration or improvements in working conditions, unless warranted by exceptional circumstances. Recent experience confirms that the benefit of an increase in money incomes is rapidly swallowed up by rising prices."

That was not the Minister's opinion when he was campaigning during the general election and telling the electors of Dublin that the bad, tyrannical, extravagant, and spendthrift Government in office were responsible for their situation.

So far as the cost of living is concerned the Minister has raised the cost of living in this Budget. He has adopted the device of borrowing in order to pay the price of the people's bread during the present year. He has increased the cost of commodities like oatmeal and margarine and has added indirectly, if not directly, to the weekly budget of a great many working-class families by the changes he has made in regard to butter, sugar, and even tea. I calculate that these additions will mean about £500,000 or £600,000 at least, and were it not for the windfall which the Minister was able to utilise in the shape of a reduced price of wheat, it might be even more. He had to devise the expedient to which I referred in order to balance his Budget, and he is failing to pay his way as he goes at a time when he boasts of taking steps to reduce inflationary pressure. Surely if there is any way of reducing inflationary pressure it must be by the Government taking effective steps to reduce the volume of money in circulation. Far from that, the Minister has distributed additional purchasing power at the same time as he tells us that the monetary circulation has gone up very substantially. He does not give figures, but it may be some millions of pounds. He gives us a certain percentage and he tells us that bank advances during a single year have gone up by over £30,000,000. If there is financial stringency, which nobody but the Minister can see, if there is necessity for economy, if there is a paramount need for increasing production, it is extraordinary that the Minister and his new-found colleagues, who should have influence with the labour organisations in getting production going, do not devote more attention to that side of the question. If their whole attention has been devoted first to carrying out the undertaking they had given to a particular interest, as detailed by Deputy Allen last night, and then trying afterwards by all these devices and expedients of borrowing to pay for our bread and flour for the present year from future years, all these expedients and devices were necessary and were inescapable because of the Minister's generosity in dealing with that particular interest.

Of course, we were told by the Taoiseach last year that these matters were under consideration. I hate to remind Ministers of the attitude they took up on that occasion but I wonder have we any principles left in public life or is it going to be accepted as the normal state of affairs in this democratic State, that the principles and the policies which we preach and the views to which we give utterance only a short year ago, are now to be completely departed from and that Ministers, who were then in opposition and who are now entrusted with responsibility for the country's affairs, can turn their back completely on what they then said? "The wealthy people," said the Tánaiste, "lined their pockets." He spoke of "the orgy of spending" that was going on, "the luxury and the aristocracy of wealth" that had grown up, "the ill-gotten gains" they had made and "the fortunes they had raked out of the community". The Minister for Finance flayed the business community right, left and centre. He examined the balance sheets and accounts of Dublin stores to show that they had made extravagant and excessive profits. According to him all that was necessary was to take money from the people who were making extravagant profits. Admittedly there was danger of inflation but it could very easily be got over, according to him, by drawing money from the profiteers and handing it over to those in whose case it was necessary that compensation should be made to bring them up to the 1939 standard.

What has the Minister done in the Budget to carry out that policy? It was not in one year or in two years but in several years that he enunciated it. He was supported very ably by the present Tánaiste. Nobody was more eloquent than the Tánaiste on the excess profits tax. Nobody was apparently more anxious that it should be reimposed and nobody could have displayed more energy in pointing out to the country that people were suffering by allowing this racketeering and profiteering to continue. The new Government has an opportunity of carrying these beliefs, if they did believe them, into operation and all we get from the Minister is a pious supplication to the business people—will they not be good enough to reduce profits?—adding that, if they do not reduce them, he may have to take steps against them later on. With the information which he says he has before him, showing that in a number of instances excess profits are being made, why does he not take the steps now which he told the electorate in the City of Dublin earlier this year should be taken to deal with this exploitation of the poor, this exploitation of the people?

Of course, if the Minister is honest, he will have to admit, as the Taoiseach had to admit last year and as he still admits, because it is extraordinary how these gentlemen can put forward a wonderful case when in opposition and can then change round, forget it entirely and frabricate something entirely new—that it is legitimate to have profits. The present Taoiseach admitted that it was legitimate and said he had nothing against business people making profits. He differentiated between those who were exploiting the community, making these ill-gotten gains to which he referred, but, he said, if a businessman shows enterprise and initiative and makes profits, if he risks his own money in doing so, he is entitled to a return, and I think he went so far as to say, a very good return. In what way are the Revenue Commissioners, backed by the Minister for Finance, to draw a distinction between those who are wilfully profiteering, wilfully exploiting the poor, and those who are legitimately gaining profits which accrue to them and to which they are entitled by reason of the moneys they have expended and the capital they have risked?

Everyone who has any experience of this problem knows that it is almost impossible, and that is one of the reasons the excess profits tax scheme broke down—because it worked out so inequitably in particular cases, that while some people could get away with the swag, if you like to call it that, others were driven out of business. If the Minister can devise a means of dealing with that situation, nobody will come more quickly to congratulate him than I, but I do not believe that the Minister was really serious or really believed it was possible to devise a better scheme than that scheme which had to be dropped because it inflicted such hardships on people who did not deserve them.

That was not the reason given for dropping it.

Why did you not bring it in this year?

Just do not talk too soon. You may not be out of the wood yet. I am being urged very steadily towards a goal I should like to achieve.

The Minister has reduced these taxes to which Deputy Allen referred last night. The Deputy was questioned as to the accuracy of the figures and I think it is no harm to refer again to the Official Debates of 14th April where in column 634, a reply by the Minister shows that the consumption of beer increased from 593,000 standard barrels in 1942 to 771,000 in 1947, an increase of 30 per cent.; the consumption of spirits from 682,000 proof gallons in 1942 to 970,000 proof gallons in 1947, an increase of 40 per cent.; the consumption of wines from 488,000 gallons in 1942 to 645,000 gallons in 1947, an increase of 30 per cent.; and the consumption of tobacco from 8,477,000 lbs. in 1942 to 12,398,000 lbs. in 1947, an increase of 46 per cent.

The Minister has chosen to reduce the taxation on these commodities. By so doing, he has put these additional moneys into circulation and they are going to be spent in a way which we can all agree is not likely always to be in the very best interests of the community. It is going to increase the expenditure upon non-essentials at a time when our whole effort ought to be devoted to dealing with the possibilities of depression outside which may very seriously affect us or the warnings about a possible war situation or some other crisis. The present situation of buoyancy and high optimism is scarcely likely to continue indefinitely and we should now be making plans for dealing with that situation and for having national development schemes in view which would meet a situation of depression and we ought to be saving money now for that purpose. In such a period, the Minister is throwing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of pounds into consumption which the country could spare and is thereby taking away productive effort and employment and initiative from enterprise which would be beneficial to the country and diverting these moneys into non-essential, uneconomic and comparatively luxury expenditure.

That is the Minister's contribution to the stopping of the inflationary pressure about which he complains. The pretence that the reduction in the contemplated expenditure in the Budget will reduce the cost of living is an argument which I could never follow. It is well known that the total amount of Government expenditure is only a proportion, and a comparatively small proportion, of our total national expenditure. The Minister has not given us figures to show us what the total private consumption expenditure in this State is compared with public expenditure, during the present year, or what it is likely to be during the coming year, but, according to the 1944 figures in the White Paper on national income and expenditure, it appears that some 88 per cent. of the expenditure was private expenditure generally and some 11 per cent. public expenditure on the Supply Services and so on.

If we assume that the present income of the country has substantially increased—and I believe it has, probably from £220,000,000 in 1944 to some £350,000,000, if not more, at present—it is quite obvious that private consumption expenditure and private spending generally must be the main factor in determining the level of prices and costs generally and the cost of living to the community, and that public spending, however extravagant or ill-thought it may have been, cannot have represented more than the percentage I have quoted, even if we admit that all that expenditure was uneconomic. The Minister in reducing these taxes made no allowance for the income-tax paid. We used to hear a great deal from Ministers, who looked for support to the white-collar workers living in the City of Dublin and whose suffrages they were so busy in seeking, about the income-tax paid by these white-collar workers. The present Ministers when they were on this side of the House shed many tears over them. They shed tears over the man with the regular income of £400, £500, £600, or £700 per year, because of the extreme difficulty such a man had in trying to bring up his family, educate them and keep up the standard forced upon him by circumstances if he happened to be a civil servant, a teacher, a clerk, a professional man or whatever else he might be. That section of the community who presumably gave their support to the present Government, since they have been looking for subscriptions to present portraits to certain members of the Government recently, must have had a certain amount of belief in the promises that were made to them and in the anxiety that was shown over their position. They must feel somewhat chastened now when they find that the Minister can make no gesture towards them. Admittedly as a class they deserve serious consideration. I am sure the Minister will remind me that we increased the tax on these people.

We did increase the tax as part of a general scheme in which the motor industry, the beer industry, the whiskey industry, the tobacco industry and entertainments all bore their share. I think if it had come to our turn to make a decision as to what remissions or adjustments should be made we would not have had the effrontery to shed the crocodile tears the Minister shed over the white collar workers—and the Taoiseach with him—and to give these extensive remissions, amounting to some millions of pounds, to the classes who consume luxuries and non-necessities, without making any corresponding gesture or remission to the man who has to pay in income-tax and in direct costs additional costs of labour, additional costs of distribution and additional costs of those services which he is compelled to employ. That ununfortunate citizen has got very little consideration in the Budget.

The Minister announced in his Budget statement that the Exchequer had got over £2,000,000 from motor vehicle duties and taxation on petrol had increased very considerably during the past year—£184,000. As well as the £2,000,000 on motor vehicle duties there was also £575,000 of an increase on motor cars, parts and accessories. It would be interesting to know to what the total amount of the taxation on the motor industry at the present time comes. From both sides of the House appeals have been made to the Minister to adjust this additional taxation on the consumers of petrol in order that it may not fall upon production, upon productive effort and particularly upon agriculture in this country. I am told that the owner of a five ton lorry in this country pays, under this petrol impost alone, about £60 per year. I am sure that upon the tractor owners and upon the professional men, whose cars are a necessity to them in their work, the tax will be equally onerous. The Minister, however, has proposed that an additional £1,000,000 shall be taken from the consumers of petrol simultaneously with these handsome remissions to which he pledged himself to those particular interests to which reference has been made during the course of the debate.

I come now to the Minister's statement regarding wages. I hope that Deputy O'Leary, and others who think with him and who cherish grievances against us because of the steps we took to try to stabilise wages, profits and prices in so far as it lay within our power to do so, will cogitate over what the Minister has said and ponder on the things he has left unsaid. The Minister can point to the fact that labour representatives who were so eloquent last year in denouncing a wages pegging policy have now agreed in a public statement issued by the Labour Court some time before the change of Government that "The wage problem is only part of the wider problem of restraining a rise in prices and, wherever possible, reducing them and of increasing the supply of goods. Alterations in wages may affect the distribution of the available goods among the various sections of the community but a general increase in wages will not of itself add anything to the stock of goods that can be bought." That is an admission signed by the representatives of the labour organisations, as well as by the employers, in a document issued by the Labour Court. The statement continues: "Wages are a considerable factor in driving up prices and it is even admitted that it is a false policy to pursue all the time, irrespective of all other considerations and aspects of this problem, the rather short-sighted policy of getting hold of all you can." Deputy Connolly paraphrased that and in his own words said "getting all we can out of it." That was Deputy Connolly's explanation of the support which his group are giving to the Government. They want to get everything they can out of it for those they represent. I do not blame them for that. I think Deputy Connolly has been quite candid and quite honest and I admire him. I have no disagreement with him in the purpose he has before him. I merely want to suggest to him that there is a certain inconsistency in leaving himself open to the interpretation, which his statement does, that his only interest is to get what he can out of the production of the country for the particular class he represents and that the statements subscribed to by Labour leaders in that document issued by the Labour Court are merely so much eye-wash.

Was that the Deputy's approach to the problem when Ministers' salaries were increased while he was a member of the Government?

"The subscribing organisations accordingly agree that every effort must be made (a) to avoid any unjustifiable increase in prices; (b) to adjust wage increases within limits which will give a reasonable assurance that they will not result in an inflationary rise in prices; (c) to avoid losses in production caused by stoppages of work; (d) to maintain and, wherever possible, to increase output by greater efficiency and productivity on the part of both managements and workers." If Deputy Connolly is right in his candid statement, if he has not overstated the case, feeling he is in a very strong position in this House now to enforce his demands and that he is in a strong position in the country also —if he has not overstepped himself and gone further than he intended, and his statement seemed to be very deliberate, candid and fully thought out —I must say it is very hard, indeed, to reconcile what he said with the statement which the organisations that he and other Labour Deputies are associated with made to the Labour Court, and it is still more difficult to reconcile it with the position that exists with regard to housing in the City of Dublin.

The Government have set up a housing council. It is extraordinary we have not had any indication from Deputy Larkin as to the attitude of his Party with regard to the housing crisis. We all know it will be the most serious situation with which the country will be faced during the coming year and we all would have liked that Deputy Larkin and his colleagues would have given some indication of what their attitude will be. Are they going to approach this problem in a constructive way, or will they confine themselves to what we must regard as platitudes and fine phrases, such as are contained in the statement to which I have referred?

We read in the daily Press recently where the Dublin City Manager, Dr. Hernon, said contractors were completing only 450 houses a year; that there were sites for 18,000, and 1,400 houses were under construction. It was stated that a scarcity of labour, especially of plasterers, was delaying the handing over of houses and at least 3,000 a year would be necessary to meet requirements. In another statement regarding a special conference held by the Dublin Corporation Housing Committee we read that the slow rate of house building has worried the committee for some time past, and figures indicate that the rate of building has reduced in recent years.

From 1933 to 1939 the output of houses per 100 men was 90.5. It was only 62 between 1945 and 1947. From January, 1946, to January, 1948, orders given to contractors totalled 876 houses, but of these only 460 have been handed over to the corporation. Of 540 houses ordered in June last year, not one has been completed. It is the working-class people, the workers for whom Deputy Larkin and his friends speak, who will suffer most, particularly those who can least suffer a delay. Over 1,000 families are living in single rooms in an insanitary condition, while 700 families whose members suffer from tuberculosis also live in one-room dwellings while waiting for houses.

After 16 years of Fianna Fáil government.

In January only 48 houses were delivered to the corporation; in February, 25, and in March, 15. We shall see what progress the Minister for Industry and Commerce will make with his former associates. It is necessary to call the attention of the country, and particularly of the citizens of Dublin, to the hypocrisy, fraud and humbug that have been practised upon them when people such as Deputy Davin were sent into this House. Last year Deputy Davin got up here and he shed tears over the turf industry. He had the impertinence and audacity to attack the Government of the day because they were unable to pay £3 a week to the turf workers. They were giving them only £2 14s. 0d. or £2 16s. 0d. This essential industry, according to Deputy Davin, was important. It was important for him in view of the coming election. He insisted that it should get every support from the Government of the day. Where is that industry now? Where have Deputy Davin's vote and influence gone? Did they go to destroy the industry?

Get back to the houses.

And stop the window-dressing.

Perhaps Deputy Davin's tears were responsible for the very wet turf we were getting?

If the Deputy knew anything he would not ask such a silly question. Since the emergency the people of Dublin, who could not secure fuel in any other way, were provided with it. It happened that early in the year we had the worst weather and floods in the country for a generation. In what way could the Government have averted that situation? The Government went out at once to get all the coal they could get. They got the coal; it was as a result of Deputy Lemass's efforts that this country, last November, got a supply, before the British Government had made any public statement on coal policy, and before they were in a position to state what the future of the coal industry would be, because they did not know whether their expectations would be fulfilled for an improvement or whether there again would be a state of uncertainty, as there seems to be coming along now.

We were able, through Deputy Lemass, who was then a Minister, to get sufficient coal to ensure that from the end of last year and through the spring period the transport and essential industries of this country would at least be carried on. As early as possible in the new year we got sufficient supplies of coal. But we did not know last spring what the position would be and it was for that reason that we put down the very heavy expenditure in the Budget Estimates for turf production throughout the country. If the present Government happened to be faced with a situation similar to what we faced last year—such a thing could scarcely happen a second time, but if it did—and if the Government had taken no steps to provide fuel from wherever it could be found, even if it were from the ends of the earth, then they would have stood condemned, and rightly condemned, for their failure.

Come back to the houses.

Coming back to the houses, the position is that Deputy Davin as a middleman, as one engaged in distributing goods, as one engaged in the transport industry, knows that wages form the biggest factor in the cost of production. He knows that wages are a contractual element in regard to manufacturing and employment generally. He knows that profits can only be paid out of what is left when the industrialist or the employer has paid all his costs. He knows that the higher the wages go the higher will be the cost to the consumer. Deputy Davin has only to read the speech of his friend, Dr. D'Alton, to realise that even the English Labour Government admit the profit motive is the only real incentive and that private enterprise, to which they, like all Parties in this House, profess themselves to be attached, will collapse if you have not an economic motive behind it. They admit you must have profit, but Deputy Davin and his friends come along and create a smoke screen by talking about profiteering and racketeering. They refuse to face up to their responsibilities as leaders of public opinion and as leaders of labour organisations.

The great pity of the present situation is that the Tánaiste can no longer leave the Front Bench where he is now installed to go over to his former seat and declaim in eloquent accents against the Government. I am sure that nothing would please him better than to be able on occasions to go over there and take up his old place as leader of the Labour Party. He has had to entrust that responsibility to Deputy Larkin and it will be very interesting in future to see how the new arrangement will work out, Deputy Norton in the Government trying to get his policy accepted by his colleagues and Deputy Larkin in the strategic position that if Deputy Norton should fail in pulling his colleagues round to the Left as he would wish, then he will cover up his failure by becoming even more eloquent and even more threatening from his bench as leader of the Labour Party. Why do those leaders not turn their attention occasionally to some constructive aspect of some national problem and show some interest in the welfare of the country? Now that this Government is in power, which all sections over there have supported and put into office, they should show something more in their backing of them than mere words, something more than mere anxiety to save their seats and not to have to face the people in too early a general election, because that is what drove them into the arms of the Fine Gael Party. Surely the people of Leix-Offaly will not be pleased to hear that Deputy Davin was compelled to advocate Deputy McGilligan as Minister for Finance in a Government holding office by his vote. Deputy McGilligan is a Minister who proclaimed on several occasions that social services carried to the pitch that Fianna Fáil were carrying them merely indicated a servile State and were bringing the country to a state of slavery so that conditions in plantation days in America paled into insignificance compared with the state of serfdom which the Fianna Fáil Administration was inflicting on the Irish people.

The Taoiseach said that all social services were simply an indication of weakness in the body politic. "Spending money on social services is the excuse for everything and the existence of social services is an indication of ill health in the body politic. In any case, as has been said, they are nothing more than a row of medicine bottles showing disease in the household." That is the Taoiseach's view, the policy and the thought which Deputy Davin prefers as a Government, as the councils of the country, as the policy of the country, and which he thinks will do better for the country than the previous Administration.

I will ask the Deputy to tell us what he is quoting from.

I am quoting from the Dáil Debates of the 13th May, 1947, and if the Deputy wants more he can look at column 2478, where Deputy Morrissey said that social services are something to be ashamed of and not proud of, that they are weakness instead of strength, reducing the people to a state of mendicancy.

That is exactly what you were doing, but you will hear all about that again. You will hear about the turf and you will hear about the coal, too.

"The greater necessity," said Mr. McGilligan—column 527 of the Report of the 28th March, 1947 —"for social services, the greater the condemnation of the system under which we live." The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance have gone to the old medicine-chest where all those old musty, useless bottles accumulated by the Fianna Fáil Government rest, and they added a new bottle, a watery mixture such as the greatest caricature of a dispensary doctor gave to his patients in the worst days of the old dispensary system. They gave a cough mixture to the old age pensioners, £500,000 a year, which was got by taking moneys from the widows' and orphans' pensions fund that were properly attributed to it and transferring the responsibility from the National Exchequer to the shoulders of the workers.

If Deputy Davin thinks that there is anything sincere or that anything will be done in the future in regard to a constructive policy for better social services or better care for the poorer sections of the people who under our Constitution must have prior consideration from the Government in office, I do not think that his hopes will be fulfilled. The fact is that the Fine Gael Party has come back to its old allegiance, safety, retrenchment, hesitancy, lack of enterprise, lack of vision and lack of belief in themselves, because if they had any belief in themselves or in their policy they would realise that the present juncture, the present hour is the best that has offered itself since the Irish Government came into existence for the development of our national State, for the building up of our resources and for the provision of employment here at home.

We heard a great deal about emigration and I am not going to quote Deputy Blowick or any of the others who informed us that national schemes such as land division, afforestation and drainage should be provided at any cost, even that the credit of the country should be mortgaged. Deputy Davin went so far as to say that we should get a printing press to devise the necessary credits against the national wealth. Schemes of national development have been reduced and diminished and they have become so insignificant that we only see the little portions which the Minister for Industry and Commerce is throwing out through the county councils to the turf workers whom he has disemployed in the turf areas in this country.

You are on thin ice now, again.

I am not on thin ice. The Budget Estimates are there and the money made available by us for the production of turf is there for Deputy Davin or anyone else to see, but Deputy Davin does not understand. He does not want to understand. The Government handed over the responsibility for the production of hand-won turf throughout the country generally to the Turf Board.

Careful, now.

Because it was necessary that local administrations should be made free to tackle their own job of road work. If the roads were not attended to there would be considerable further deterioration and the loss would be much greater. The cost of replacements would have been enormous. So it was decided that it was necessary that, as far as possible, the attention of the county councils should not be devoted entirely to turf work but that as much of their attention as possible should be devoted to road work and that they should get the necessary organisation going; and that since there was no other machinery for dealing with turf work than the Turf Board the work of hand-won turf production, which was not within their arena or jurisdiction up to that time, was thrust upon them unwillingly. At any rate, the idea was that until conditions became quite normal there would be no sudden or revolutionary change, nothing like taking a decision overnight to change the whole face and aspect of the situation and cause all this unemployment and all this loss to business and trade which we read about in the newspapers and which must be a very serious matter in the rural areas and small towns which were affected.

Was that decision reviewed on the 12th February? Answer that question.

The decision on the 12th February had regard only to hand-won turf carried out by camp workers.

It went a bit further.

It had no reference—and the second portion of the statement read out by Deputy Davin proves it—it had no reference whatever to county council work, which the statement he read out admits would have to be gone into at a later stage. There was no idea whatever of dropping that.

In another ten days the decision would have been taken if the Minister came back.

That is not so. The Minister and the Leader of the Party had given public assurances that the work would be continued.

When was that?

For the present season at any rate.

When was that given?

It was given during the election campaign.

Give me a date.

I have not got it by me at the moment.

Kilrush on the 6th January.

The 12th February is later than that, you know. The 12th February is the vital date.

The Minister for Finance has told us that it is more than ever necessary to examine critically proposals for capital expenditure which add to the taxpayers' annual burden and thus tend to stifle incentive and to reduce savings. Are we to understand from that rather equivocal statement that all expenditure which the taxpayer is called upon to face in regard to capital works tends to stifle incentive and to reduce savings? Is the Minister taking up the position that the State has no part to play? Does he not admit that not alone through encouragement, direction and advice to public enterprise, to industrialists and employers the Government through its annual Budget can exercise a powerful influence in maintaining reasonably prosperous business conditions but that the State itself has a part to play, and does he not admit that all private enterprise is not successful? How many of the enterprises which have been started in this country, even under the most favourable circumstances, could show a profit over a period of years? A considerable number of them must have failed if we were to take that narrow interpretation, that purely financial criterion, that Budget criterion, of a national enterprise which everybody believes is necessary, which would give employment, which would develop the resources of the country, which would keep our young people at home.

Remember, it is only large schemes of national construction work that can give employment to young unskilled labourers. We have a shortage of skilled labour and let the Dublin trade union organisations deal with that situation. If they are in earnest about increasing production and improving their own standard of living and if they hearken to the Minister's advice, they will sit down to consider how the numbers of skilled tradesmen in this city can be increased.

I say again, with some experience, that it is only in the large constructional works, like bog work, road work, building, that you can absorb a considerable proportion of unskilled labour. In smaller works nearly all the money goes in materials and highly skilled employment. If you want to get employment for these people from the West of Ireland and elsewhere whom you desire to keep at home in Ireland, you will have to approach that problem in a way different from the way in which the Minister for Finance announces he is going to deal with it—"to examine critically proposals for capital expenditure which add to the taxpayers' annual burden and thus tend to stifle incentive and to reduce savings." The only exception he makes to that very general statement, into which many things might be read, is housing: "There is general agreement that housing, though unproductive" and so on,"is entitled to special consideration." Is there no field of activity, is there no agency for the production of employment which is entitled to consideration other than housing? Perhaps the Minister, now that he has changed his mind also with regard to interest rates and has seen fit to charge higher rates on advances from the Local Loans Fund, feels that is unnecessary.

Last year and previously we used to hear the Minister complaining of lack of incentives. Now he has changed his tune completely with regard to incentives to production. His argument was, why should the worker work harder, what are his incentives to give more to the national pool if he sees his employer, the business man, taking an undue proportion. Apparently, according to the executive of the present day, when they were in opposition, all business men were in the category of people who were taking an undue proportion of the national wealth and an undue share of profits from the community. There were no incentives, according to them.

I contend that the Minister, in those statements, weakened the morale of the country deliberately for political purposes, reduced the spirit of the country in facing the national problems in a realistic, honest way, that would be best for the country in the long run. He thought that owing to the difficulties of the times he could blame the Government of the day for all the evils with which we were afflicted. So far as I know, he never made a qualification or admission that any influences outside this country, or the world situation, affected the position. Of course, he was too careful to suggest, if he was looking in advance for the support, patronage and sponsorship of Deputy Davin, that the Labour Party could have any responsibility in this matter.

He tells us that we cannot afford these things. This country is one of the best-off countries in the world. Few countries are better off than we are from the point of view of the standard of living and of the happiness and contentment of the people. Our liabilities amount to about £105,000,000. Our income is at least £350,000,000 a year, so that our total national debt is only a proportion of the annual income. The interest and sinking fund, at £4,500,000 per year, substantial as that sum may be, when related to the figure I have given, which I believe to be an approximate one, of the present national income, would be only 1½ per cent. so that we are paying only 1½ per cent. of our national income in interest and sinking fund on our national debt. The Minister has admitted that almost half of that national debt is represented by assets, although not all of them are giving the Minister the return he seems to demand.

Of what enterprise of a national character, whether it be the Shannon scheme or any other, could it be said in advance that it was going to pay all the interest and sinking fund charges over a period of years? I know that when we were in office there were two opinions expressed: One that the Shannon scheme should many years ago have reached the position when the Electricity Supply Board ought to meet these charges.

There was another attitude, the progressive and the right attitude and the attitude which this or any other Government will in the long run have to adopt if it is going to carry out what the Irish people want—a policy which will establish the country and improve the standard of living. The attitude was: "This is an enterprise which must get reasonable and fair play and if they are not able to pay these charges we are not going to press them. It is a national enterprise and must be regarded as such—whether it is the Shannon scheme, the rural electrification scheme or the turf scheme." Are we to judge these schemes—the magnitude and importance of which none of us can truly envisage in their advantages to the people of the country—merely on this narrow measure which the Minister has laid down, of computing whether year by year they are going to pay the charges that he fixes upon them or not? If we are going to adopt that attitude, it will retard all national development on a large scale, national enterprise such as we had hoped an Irish Government would set its hand to in order to make up for the misgovernment of the past and the errors, the lack of tradition and the lack of experience that our people had in regard to industry and technical matters generally. We had hoped that all that would be overcome by the Government of the day, an Irish Government putting its shoulder to the wheel, putting itself in hand manfully to take control of the levers, and of the controls themselves where necessary and where private enterprise was unable to do it. If they took charge of these big national undertakings, they would be followed by a tremendous number of smaller undertakings throughout the country— craftsmanship would be developed, small workshops would grow up, there would be distribution of industry throughout the country and we could look forward to the future with a great deal more optimism than this Budget can possibly give us.

This Budget does not seem to have aroused very much enthusiasm, beyond the slight handclapping at the finish of the Minister's statement on the day on which he made it. Ever since, in any of the speeches made by the smaller Parties in the Coalition Government, they have been very apologetic. Most of them adopt the line that the Budget is not the Budget they would be responsible for if they happened to be the Government. However, I agree with Deputy MacEntee that this is the Budget of all the component Parties of this Coalition Government and that each of them has the responsibility, whether they wish to accept it or not. They must share the blame or the credit for this particular Budget and its financial provisions.

The only item that the smaller Parties are inclined to gloat over and give as a reason for their support is the increase to the old age pensioners. Deputy Michael O'Higgins stated here last week that already the Minister for Finance, who had been only a couple of months in office, had been able to do more for the old age pensioners than anything done by Fianna Fáil in 16 years. I assume it is on the basis of that statement that we have had this reiteration by all the speakers of the smaller Parties, telling us that the old age pensioners are getting an increase. I would like Deputy O'Higgins to go into the Library and look up the Book of Estimates for the year 1932-33, when he will find that provision was made for old age pensions to the extent of £2,777,450. If he looks up the Book of Estimates for this year, 1948-49, he will find that there is provision—apart from the extra provision that the Minister is going to make—for £5,132,000, an increase since Fianna Fáil took office of £2,354,550, or almost double what they were getting when Deputy McGilligan was previously a member of the Government. Remember that if Fine Gael Ministers are giving something now to the old age pensioners, they owe something to the old age pensioners. When they were in the Government before, they did not increase the pension but decreased it.

They are all dead now.

Some of them are not.

Mr. Brady

Some of the Fine Gael Ministers are not dead.

Some of those pensioners are living on the equivalent of the 5/- they gave.

Mr. Brady

The Minister for Finance, as given on page 1045, speaking on the Budget, gave as one of the excuses for the delay in making this alleged increase to the old age pensioners, the legislation involved and "the investigation of 150,000 existing old age pensions and 22,000 other cases." We can take it that the figure for old age pensions in the Budget is £600,000 and that there are 150,000 of them, so that the old age pensioners in this financial year, the year in which he is gloating about these huge increases, they are going to get an average of £4 per old age pensioner. Anyone who is inclined to make a song about that is welcome to do so.

The change of attitude on the part of the Labour Party is surprising, when we compare this Budget with previous Budgets. Speaking on the Financial Resolutions last year, Deputy Davin had a readymade solution for all our ills and difficulties. He has an opportunity this year, as he has influence with the Government. In fact, he practically owns the Minister for Finance, as he told us yesterday that he got the Minister for Finance appointed. Deputy Davin's solution last year was:—

"We can have full employment in this country under the financial system that gives full freedom to the Minister for Finance to create credit and provide cheap money for development schemes."

Can the Deputy say what he is quoting from?

Mr. Brady

It is a quotation from a speech by Deputy Davin on the Financial Resolutions this time last year.

Is that the quotation?

Mr. Brady

Yes, it is an exact quotation. I will get the book if the Minister wants it.

I am not querying it at all.

Mr. Brady

If Deputy Davin did not create the Minister for Finance, at least he told us yesterday that he was responsible for getting him appointed. Having that influence over him, now that the Minister for Finance is not going on the lines of full employment but is creating further unemployment, it is up to him to use his influence to get all the hair-brained schemes he can into operation, in order to save the situation. One is surprised, too, at Deputy Davin's attitude and that of the Labour Party generally, in view of an amendment that was down to a private member's motion which was to come up for discussion but which had not been reached when the last Dáil adjourned in November last. Deputy Costello, now the Taoiseach, and the present Minister for Education, had a motion down dealing with the housing situation in Dublin and the Labour Party were not satisfied with the terms of that motion and put down an amendment. It is very interesting now to get their views on the housing problem and the steps they are taking to implement what they wanted the previous Government to do when in office. There is the Minister for Finance and Deputy Costello is the Taoiseach and Deputy Mulcahy is the Minister for Education. Deputies M. O'Sullivan, Tadhg Ó Murchadha and Michael Keyes had an amendment as follows:

"and accordingly requests the Government to introduce without delay proposals for the establishment as a public utility corporation of a national housing authority financed by State advances to plan and promote in conjunction with the local authorities a national housing programme designed to satisfy the present demand for houses in the shortest possible time; and desires further that provision be made (a) to accord to the proposed corporation priority in regard to labour and materials on the assumption that stability of employment for building workers be guaranteed for ten years; (b) to enable the corporation to undertake direct responsibility for building houses where local authorities are unable or unwilling to do so;"

——and this is a gem, in view of the attitude taken by the Minister in the Budget——

"(c) to make advances for the purposes of the corporation at rates of interest not exceeding 1¼ per cent. per annum including the provision for capital redemption, and (d) requiring that houses erected by or for the corporation be let to tenants at rents which tenants may reasonably be expected to afford."

Deputy Davin, Deputy Martin O'Sullivan, the Minister for Local Government, and Deputy Michael Keyes are supporting this Budget despite the fact that, instead of making money available for houses at 1¼ per cent. the Minister has taken on himself the duty of increasing the rate of interest on loans from the Exchequer and the Local Loans Fund from 2½ to 3¼ per cent.

Is the Deputy quoting now?

Mr. Brady

I am going to.

Mr. Brady

The Minister stated that it is proposed to alleviate the effect of this increase in the case of housing schemes of local authorities.

Does that answer the Deputy?

Will the Deputy be good enough to give the reference?

Mr. Brady

It is an extract from the Minister's Financial Statement on the Budget: Volume 110, No. 9, column 1055; Tuesday, 4th May, 1948. I should like to know from the Minister to what extent he is going to alleviate the housing loans.

Will the Deputy criticise first before he knows what it is? Is that not what he is doing?

Does the Minister deny that that statement is not a fact? If he made it, it must be a fact.

It is not a fact.

Mr. Brady

With the exception of housing loans the Minister is going to authorise a rate of 3¼ per cent. per annum interest on loans instead of the former rate of 2½ per cent. He does not say that——

But if I had, would the Deputy not still have his argument about the 1¼ per cent?

Mr. Brady

I would, but I would not have it in connection with the 2½ per cent.

The Minister is trying to help the Deputy.

Mr. Brady

I want some information about the 2½ per cent. to local authorities. But even at the figure of 2½ per cent. I am surprised that Deputy Davin did not make a case in that connection on this Budget statement. Deputy Davin had an opportunity on this particular item of raising that question first of all in connection with this national housing council and, secondly, for the purpose of getting the Minister to advance the moneys at the rate of 1¼ per cent. per annum. I would like the Minister to tell us whether he is going to alleviate to the full extent the increase in interest on moneys from the Local Loans Fund for housing schemes.

We had on an Order Paper a motion for which no provision has been made in this Budget. It was put down by two members of the present Government—the Minister for Defence and the Taoiseach.

"That Dáil Éireann is of opinion that immediate steps should be taken by the Government to increase, by means of a bonus related to the costof-living index figure, all smaller pensions payable at rates or on a basis fixed before the 1st September, 1939."

I do not see any provision in that connection in the Budget.

Was that motion put to a vote?

Mr. Brady

No, it was not reached.

Would the Deputy have voted against it?

A Deputy

He would have done as he was told.

Mr. Brady

The Minister has a chance now of putting that motion into operation. I want to know why he has not done so. It does not matter about my attitude——

Does it not?

Mr. Brady

That was a Fine Gael motion. The Minister has the support of Deputy Davin and the Labour Party as well as that of other Parties, including the Fine Gael Party——

Would it not be honest to say that the Deputy would have objected.

Mr. Brady

I want to know what the Minister is going to do about it, now that he has an opportunity.

I am asking the Deputy if he would not have voted against it. Once he would have done so.

A Deputy

How would Deputy Brady vote on the matter now?

Mr. Brady

There are several other motions. There was a motion for an increase for the old age pensioners.

The Deputy voted against that.

Yes, indeed.

I think the Deputy should get a chance to make his speech.

Mr. Brady

Deputy Larkin and others were not satisfied when Fianna Fáil increased the old age pension allowance by 5/-. Their motion was— and it was an old pet view of the present Minister for Finance—that:—

"In view of the considerable deterioration which has taken place over a period of six years in the purchasing power of money and the consequent inadequacy of the pensions paid at present to old persons and blind persons without means, Dáil Éireann requests the Government to introduce without delay legislative proposals with the object of amending the law so as to provide for the payment of pensions to such persons at the rate of 22/6 per week and to modify the existing provisions relating to the calculation of means so as to secure that any income not exceeding 20/- per week enjoyed by an applicant for an old age pension or a blind person's pension will not be taken into account."

Does the Minister recognise the phrase: "In view of the considerable deterioration which has taken place over a period of six years in the purchasing power of money..."?

It is certainly not yours.

Mr. Brady

"...with the object of amending the law so as to provide for the payment of pensions to such persons at the rate of 22/6 per week...." Where is the provision in the Budget for the payment of pensions to such persons at the rate of 22/6 per week?

Was that motion put to a vote.

Mr. Brady

I do not remember.

The Deputy was out that day.

Mr. Brady

What is the position of the Labour Party? What is their attitude now?

What about the means test?

Mr. Brady

There was a motion by Clann na Talmhan to the effect

"That, in view of the urgent need for a very substantial expansion in agricultural production, Dáil Éireann is of opinion that better credit facilities should be provided for farmers and that rates of interest on loans for agricultural purposes should be drastically reduced."

I wonder how much pressure Clann na Talmhan has brought to bear in that connection, now that one of their members is a Minister in the Government? I wonder what pressure the Party brought to bear on the Government to have more money made available to farmers and the rates of interest on the loans drastically reduced? The Minister has asked me something about the means test. Does he remember that when the Fianna Fáil Government took office in 1932 a Bill was introduced to improve the means test which meant that, in that year, we provided an extra £1,000,000 for old age pensioners? We reduced the means test from what it was under the Fine Gael régime. If the Minister is going a bit further now I say that it is an advance that he should not be crowing about. With the exception of this one particular item there is nothing in this Budget about which the supporting Parties can crow. All the suggestions and schemes which they proposed when they were not in a position to put them into operation have now, to use a phrase which has become famous, "been put in abeyance". They are not prepared, now that they themselves have a share in the Government, to take a hand in implementing any of the schemes they wanted the previous Government to implement. It is a fair comment to say that evidently these motions were put down without sincerity, not in the hope or knowledge that they would be carried out but just to make political Party capital and to blame the Government of the day for not putting those schemes into operation. I say to these Parties, and I think I can say so quite legitimately, that they now have the power in this House to have those schemes implemented. Now is the time to exert the influence they have on the Minister for Finance to make provision for those schemes in his Financial Resolutions in this Budget. I hope that when the Division on this Budget takes place those Parties will see that some provision is made for those schemes or, if it is not being made, that they will join us in voting against it.

Not so simple as all that, unfortunately.

A Deputy

You would be surprised.

This Budget is the more disappointing when we think of the programmes put forward by the different Parties at the last election according to which they had a plan to do all the great things they said they would do overnight. They had schemes of employment ready to be put into operation, plans ready for the reduction of taxation and plans to end emigration. Now when we listen to the speeches made by Deputies who sit behind the Government we find they are making very mild apologies for not being able to put any of these things into opera tion. They are trying to convince us that they have succeeded in bringing in a small Budget, whereas it is the highest Budget ever introduced in this country.

Who produced it?

The reason given for that is that the Estimates were already prepared.

And were they not?

The Estimates were prepared. We listened to speeches from the present Minister for Finance last year and the year before. The Minister for Finance and other Ministers stated that, when they took over Government, all the Estimates that might be prepared by any Fianna Fáil Government could be thrown into the fire and they would immediately be able to produce plans. Not one of these lightning schemes has been put into operation. They are running around now with the Book of Estimates under their arms saying: "Hit me now with the baby in my arms." Where are the plans? Where are all the things about which you fooled the people? Put them up. Let us see what they are like. Give us an opportunity of criticising them.

Or obstructing.

Where is the obstruction coming from? When the Deputy talks of obstruction, he should remember that people in glasshouses should not throw stones.

Not a Connemara one.

Leave Connemara out of the picture altogether. The Minister for Agriculture tackled Connemara and he had to withdraw everything he said. The Deputy may find himself in the same position if he does the jack-in-the-box too often. He has done it too often in this House.

I never withdraw.

Every Deputy is entitled to express his opinions honestly and sincerely and should be prepared to stand over the statements he makes, not like the Deputy who is running away from the speeches he made in Cork and Dublin during the election and is now trying to convince the people that the Government are really doing something when we all know very well they are doing nothing useful.

Will the Deputy tell me what I am running away from?

Deputy Collins should let the Deputy make his speech.

There is nothing you can run away from because we do not know anything you ever did.

You said I ran away from my speeches.

The Deputy should keep to the Budget.

We had a tremendous programme put forward by Clann na Poblachta.

A good programme.

So good and so wise and so sensible was it that the people had discovered it before Clann na Poblachta thought they had discovered it and if there is one Party which got a terrible "sell" in the last election it was that particular Party.

We did not do so badly.

You will do worse next time. Last year we listened to the present Minister for Finance criticising the Budget then brought in and one of his greatest criticisms was of the Army Estimate. He was supported in that by leaders of the different Opposition Parties then in the House. He said he could make drastic reductions in the Army Estimate overnight. Now, when he brings in his Budget, we discover the drastic reductions were not worth mentioning.

There was a lot of trouble about it all the same.

I did not see any trouble about it.

There was a lot of talk about the £750,000.

I cannot see any reduction that would be beneficial to the people of the country.

£750,000.

When the Minister was speaking on the Budget last year he made very strong statements regarding the profits made by certain drapers, bacon curers, Messrs. Rank, etc. Everybody would think that he would examine these and see in what way he could tax them. The Labour Party were——

Disappointed.

Deputy Davin stated last night that the Labour Party were more or less responsible for having him made the Minister for Finance and I think it is because of these statements.

Probably, yes.

Now the Labour Party are disappointed because he has failed to give effect to any of these things. Therefore the Minister must have been talking through his hat.

He might go through their pockets yet.

Deputy Davin, when Deputy Derrig was speaking, referred to this question of houses as if no house had ever been erected by the Fianna Fáil Government. He was asking about the number of houses. If there is one proud record which Fianna Fáil had during its period of office it is the housing programme which was carried out. In the building and reconstructing of houses I think we had to our credit some 140,000. When the emergency started we were held up, as everybody knows, and were not able to go ahead. But we built or reconstructed practically 20,000 houses per year when we were at it.

Under this Budget old age pensioners are promised an increase. As a matter of fact some of them are expecting it every Friday, but the date on which they will get it has been kept a secret. When this matter was being discussed the other day some Deputies on these benches referred to Deputies opposite having made statements to the effect that the means test was to be removed altogether. From Deputies on the opposite side there was a cry to the effect that they never made any such statements.

I said I made that statement.

I notice anyhow that there were some prominent members of the Government who said that they never made such a statement. I took the precaution of looking it up because the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance happened to be sitting in the Front Bench taking the place of the Minister, and because he is one of the people who said that he did not make such a statement. I looked it up, as I say, and I found that he made an appeal to the Minister to give pensions at 65 of £1 a week and also appealed for the abolition of the means test.

The members of the Government Party are now running away from these statements because they realise that they are going to be called upon to fulfil some of the promises they made and to stand over some of the statements they made in days gone by. I suppose a number of these people have been checked up in their wild statements. We have all noticed from time to time in this House that they have had to withdraw statements they made as to whether certain individuals should or should not be allowed into this country.

In connection with the old age pensions there is a proposal to raise the means test. As far as I know, it was fixed many many years ago, and so far as rural Ireland is concerned the estimate of means then would not be as high as what it is to-day. I would like to know from the Minister whether, in raising the means test, there is also to be a revaluation of the means of each old age pension applicant. In other words, a cow that had a certain value 25 years ago has a much higher value now, and the same with regard to pigs and horses or an acre of agricultural produce that an applicant may produce.

Is this a plan of your own?

I am asking the Minister if anything like that is going to happen.

It must have been in the mind of the last Minister.

I am anxious to find out from the Minister how he is going to give increased pensions to all those people although he seems to be going to reduce the social services by, I think, £150,000. I do not know how that can be done, and I would like to be educated on it.

On the first day the Dáil met we had a full taste of this new economic programme. Deputy Beegan referred to two additional Ministers being appointed, a thing that did not happen during the most critical years that this country ever had to face up to. There were no protests against that from the great economists in Clann na Poblachta or in the other Parties.

They were Ministerial appointments.

Of course, I clearly understand why the additional appointments were made. It was hard to fix up all the Parties and the difficulty had to be got over. The next move we had was the glasshouses in the Gaeltacht. I notice that the Minister for Lands supported that very strongly. I wonder did he look up his speech on the Budget last year. In case he did not, I would like to remind him of what he said. It will be found on page 2272, Volume 105. He said:

"The sum of £100,000 has the same relation to that vast figure as 1d. would have to the person who would give it to the beggar coming to the door."

In other words, that the Government were only putting up something very small and should have put up much more. The Minister and all the Ministers should look up their speeches and see the things they said in the days gone by, of how they find a way out now of running away from all those things and of sheltering behind the policy of the new grass Minister or the Minister for Agriculture, as we know him.

Yesterday, when Deputy Davin opened up his attack on Deputy MacEntee he made reference to Deputy MacEntee's slanderous allegations in the House and hoped that they would be made outside. I think that if there is one man in this House who has at all times voiced his mind very openly outside on some of the issues on which he voiced it here yesterday, it is Deputy MacEntee. We have been hearing all the time about the slander actions that are being brought against him, but it is very strange that all those Deputies, when they get the opportunity of bringing on such slander actions, run away from them.

It is not a slander in this country to call a person a Communist.

Deputy Davin, referring to Deputy MacEntee, said that he should make some of those statements outside. I do not know why Deputy Davin should have made such a statement here yesterday or why he should have asked Deputy MacEntee to repeat the statements he made here outside, because Deputy MacEntee has several times made the same statements outside.

He is very careful to avoid the law of slander.

There are a great many lawyers and professional men now on the Government Benches, and if they got together I am sure they might try and make a case against Deputy MacEntee.

You know what he said about Mr. Cosgrave.

I am anxious to know from the Government when are the productive schemes that will give full employment going to come into operation, and when are the men who are being thrown out of employment in the peat industry going to be re-employed. We have been told that their re-employment is not going to mean any additional burden on the taxpayers. That, of course, is not the case because already our county council, in connection with schemes designed to try and keep our young men at home, has had to put an additional 3d. in the £ on the ratepayers of the County Galway. I do not think that they were quite as charitable to the workers in the County Mayo because on the proposition of a man, who I think I may term the private secretary to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance, a scheme of the same kind was thrown out altogether. However, if such a scheme ever comes to be put into operation, it will mean an additional contribution from the local authority, and I think that is placing the burden on the wrong shoulders.

I understand also that the additional moneys given to the local authorities for carrying out the schemes that were to be put into operation are to be taken out of the Relief Vote. It will be very interesting to see if that is so. If it is, it is simply taking money out of one pocket and putting it into the other and in the exchange, of course, losing a little on the way.

I am anxious to know from the Minister what he proposes to do regarding the large number of lorries formerly employed in turf haulage during the most difficult years of the emergency. I know that certain promises have been made to those men to the effect that there is going to be a new transport Bill and that they will all get hauliers' licences. I do not think that is going to work. I think it is just another way of bluffing them for the moment, by the individuals who make such statements.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance.

Deputies will please address the Chair.

I suppose that is another of the statements that he will run away from, like the statement about the lowering of the Corrib by ten feet. The young men who own these lorries purchased them out of their hard earned savings, savings of from £200 to £300 each. They paid a deposit on them and the balance, of course, was put up by Bowmakers or some hire purchasing company. These unfortunate owners now find themselves in the unhappy position that they have to work two or three days at any kind of work they can procure in order to pay off the instalments on the hire purchase but again they find that they have been hit by the tax on petrol. Some Deputies have been talking of a tax of 5d. per gallon but I should like to point out that only a few days before that tax was put on, the price of petrol went up by another penny so that now there is really a tax of 6d.

If so, it is at the same rate which the former Government carried on for years.

You put on 6d.

And you had it at 6d. up to 1946.

There is no comparison between the risk of getting petrol during the emergency and the risk of getting it to-day. The circumstances are entirely different. The Minister is not going to get away with that so easily. There is no use in trying to put that bluff over here.

Your tax was 6d. too.

That was because of the heavy insurance on boats and the dangers which tankers had to incur in bringing petrol here. The risks were much greater.

Did that make the 6d. any the less?

We are also to consider another problem which the Minister might as well face. We have tractors in this country which are worked by petrol. The most useful tractor we have is that suitable for the small farmer. The Minister for Agriculture, in his statement a few days ago, told us in pretty strong language that if he had his way he would put any man in jail who would be seen working a horse from now on. That is the type of man I refer to. If he uses a tractor in cultivating the soil of this country, for the fuel that goes into that tractor he has to pay an extra 5d. under this Budget, an extra 6d. as a matter of fact. In some very timid speeches from the opposite side there was a gentle reminder thrown out to the Minister that he should do something about that, but why do these Deputies not open their minds fully and boldly and ask the Minister to remove this tax altogether? They are all applauding the Minister, no matter what he does, in the same way as Deputy Davin applauded him yesterday. Again, we have a number of taxi owners who, during the emergency, had to work on a limited amount of petrol and who barely survived that period. They have to meet this additional burden, too, and, of course, they cannot afford to meet it. It will have to be passed on to the consumers, the passengers they carry. Again, the tractor owner, if he is ploughing for hire, must pass on the extra charges to the man for whom he is working just as the taxi owner must pass it on to the passengers he carries. There are many people who, in order to earn a livelihood, have to use cars. A number of these were off the road during the emergency and now, when there was a prospect of getting these cars on the road again to enable them to carry out their work, they find that they are almost prevented from using their cars by the heavy taxation. This tax was imposed on them practically over-night. Nobody would object, and I am not objecting, to a tax on petrol provided it were imposed in a reasonable way.

What everybody expected the Minister to do was to carry out the policy enunciated by the Labour Party, by Clann na Poblachta, by the National Labour Party and the other Parties who support him. That was to tax the wealthier sections of the community and to avoid hitting the poorer sections, the sections who are endeavouring to make an honest living by hard work and who are now being punished by the Minister. However, you cannot get the leopard to change his spots. "It is not the duty of the Government to provide employment for anybody." We all remember that. We also remember that Deputy Davin made a statement yesterday that the Labour Party were partly, if not wholly responsible for insisting on the present Minister being selected by the Taoiseach as the Minister for Finance.

On a point of order, I did not use these words. Quote correctly if you presume to quote me at all.

I have not the exact words. These may not be the exact words you used.

Deputies must address the Chair.

Quote the Fianna Fáil plan.

The Deputy in my hearing—I cannot quote the exact words because I did not bother bringing in the official record and I do not know that I could get it within such a short time—expressed the opinion that the Labour Party were mainly responsible for having Deputy McGilligan appointed Minister for Finance. Deputy Davin might go back over the records of this House, back to 1931, 1930 and earlier years and let him read for himself what the official records of this House reveal, and what he thought about the Minister during these years. It will form some very nice reading for the Deputy because anything he did not say about the Minister at that time was not worth saying. This Budget is, as I say, a very disappointing document for the people of this country, and judging by the speeches we have listened to from Deputies opposite, it must be still more of a disappointment to them. However, I suppose when a person starts to slip a little, it is very hard to get a foothold again. They have all slipped so far now that it is exceptionally hard for them to get back on their feet and all they can do is apologise.

Fianna Fáil slipped over there.

Fianna Fáil slipped over there before the Deputy came here and they will slip in again when he will not be in the House.

It was the Labour Party slipped them over.

I listened to Deputy Desmond the other day answering some of the criticisms from this side regarding the increase imposed by this Budget on the price of margarine and oatmeal. He told us that the labouring man should not be fed on margarine. The fact is that it is the labouring sections, the poorer sections of the people, who use margarine to a much greater extent than the wealthier section and he might have addressed a different type of argument to the Minister in his efforts to come to the assistance of these people, if he is so interested in them. I trust the Minister will see his way immediately to remove the increase on petrol for essential services, such as tractors and lorries owned by men who are now trying to find a day's work in order to meet the moneys due every month on the hire purchase of these lorries, so that Bowmakers or other hire purchase companies will not be taking over these lorries. These people gave good service during the emergency and should not be forgotten to-day. I hope also that, when the Minister comes to decide on his attitude regarding old age pensioners, he will ensure that the position will not be worsened. I am afraid that, when it comes to the making of this allocation——

You are terribly sorry for them, but you did not say a word about them for 15 years.

When we have, as Minister for Finance, a man who, when Minister for Industry and Commerce in years gone by, stood behind a Government which relieved income-tax payers to the extent of 1/- in the £ and took 1/- from the old age pensioners, we should know where we stand. We have had experience of these people and the people of the country have had experience of this Fine Gael Government. They know the type of Budgets they brought in in the past and the Labour Party has given expression to its views in the past of the type of Government they were. As I say, you cannot change the spots on the leopard. No matter how you paint them, they reappear after the rain. The Labour Party may paint the Minister for Finance, may decorate him and say that he is a lovely chap, but let them not forget that, when the rains come to-morrow, the spots will be there as fresh as ever and they will find that there is no change in the Minister for Finance.

Deputy Killilea made a statement that a Deputy of this House is private secretary to a Parliamentary Secretary. I am the Parliamentary Secretary referred to. Such is not the case.

I said "if I may refer to him as a private secretary", because I notice he is here answering questions.

I am not as thick as Deputy Killilea that I must have somebody to do my business for me.

We have heard the views of the different Deputies and Ministers on this Budget. The people on this side say that the Budget is a good Budget and the people on the other side say that it is a bad Budget. I say that it is a reasonable Budget, a Budget that the people of the country are pleased with, and I will go so far as to say that the Minister has done a good day's work. He has been in office only a few months and miracles will not be expected from him. I feel that this Government, if it gets a chance, will make good and will do good.

Much has been said about turf production. Whatever Government is in power will have to curtail the production of turf, and the Minister for Industry and Commerce is faced with a problem in getting rid of the enormous quantities of fuel in the country at present. I appeal to him to move heaven and earth to get rid of the enormous quantity of timber stored in Cork and Dublin and in dumps all over the country. Otherwise, it will go bad. The same applies to turf. The coal which is available will, I am sure, be utilised by the State industries, and I am sure the Minister will see to it that these industries will use some, or all of it. Very probably by reason of some trade agreement existing at the moment, the Minister cannot curtail the importation of British coal. Industries here should be made use the American coal which is in stock. Some people say that that American coal is bad coal. It is not. I have been in the trade for the past 25 years and I say it is good coal. It is slacky, but we burned very inferior coal during the war period, along with turf and duff, and the industries were able to manage on it.

I will say that the previous Government did a good job during the emergency. They had a difficult task in that period. They had to go all over the world to get supplies of grain and fuel and other essential commodities and they did a good job. All Parties should join now with this Government. I did not vote for the nomination of Deputy Costello as Taoiseach and my reason for not doing so was that I thought the previous Government was a stable Government and we wanted a stable Government. I am now satisfied that this Government is composed of capable, honest and God-fearing men who will do good and I will support them every time I think their policy is right and—as I have independence— vote against them when I think they are wrong.

We have wasted a lot of time in this debate. Speakers to the number of 50 or 60 have spoken on this Resolution and the people of the country are very patient with us, able-bodied men sitting here for the past three weeks discussing this Budget. We are merely delaying progress by these long speeches, many of which merely repeat what has been said. I compliment the Minister for Finance on his Budget.

This Budget strikes me as being a Budget of deceit, a continuation of the deceit practised on the electorate during the election campaign. We were told during the election that we were to have reduced taxation and an increase in social services, but where is the reduced taxation? We have a transfer of taxation from the taxpayer to the ratepayer and that is evident from what has happened regarding the turf scheme. It has been transferred from the taxpayer to the ratepayer because the ratepayer is now being asked to contribute by way of giving employment to those men who have been disemployed, thereby throwing a further burden on to the farmers and the agricultural workers.

You are not forgetting the £6,000,000.

I am not forgetting the £6,000,000 at all. We have now a tax on diesel oil. That oil is used extensively in agricultural production. It is used in creameries. The way in which you tax people is not the important point. You can tax them by reducing their income or you can tax them by putting an additional tax on production. That is the tax that has been placed on production. There has been a reduction in the income to the farmer as far as butter is concerned because that is the effect that the tax on diesel oil will have. The same applies as far as petrol is concerned. The farmer uses lorries for the haulage of beet, corn and manures. The additional tax of 5d. per gallon will be transferred to the farmer where he uses a lorry for the transport of his own produce or for the haulage of the essential commodities required by him on his own farm. These are two additional taxes that have been placed on the farming community. The farmers were the mainstay of the country in the last seven or eight years when the people required food. The farmers were lauded and applauded by every section of the community. Now, when an opportunity presents itself, the urban dweller with the urban outlook gets some of his own back on them by putting increased taxation on his produce.

In County Kilkenny we have 50 or 60 Ferguson tractors. Assuming that these tractors work 200 days in the year, that will mean an additional tax of £40 on each of these tractors because consumption of petrol runs in or around one gallon per hour. That is how the tax will affect ordinary cultivation on the land. Does the Minister not consider that it would be a wise thing to remove that tax? I know it may be a difficult problem but the brain that conceived this Budget should find no difficulty in the solution of it.

The withdrawal of the subsidy of £150,000 is yet another tax on the farmer. It reduces the cost of one of his most important commodities. For the first time in the history of this country a Minister has come into this House and stated that butter is not as important as margarine. Margarine to-day is 2/- a lb.; butter is 1/11. That is what the Coalition Government have done—a Coalition Government with farmers and Labour representatives in it.

The Minister has said that he is going to alleviate the interest on local loans. He has not told us to what that alleviation will amount. The position all over the country is that, because of the war, housing was discontinued. Now, every council in Ireland is making an all-out effort to house the people. The Minister for Local Government has toured the country and he has been given every encouragement from the county councils. In Kilkenny we had a scheme under which the all-in cost of these houses was in the region of £1,000. We get £300 by way of grant plus, I suppose, a further grant of £200 which means £500 altogether. We will have to borrow £500. By increasing the interest, the Minister has increased the rents of these houses by 75/- per year. That is roughly 1/6 per week. We had our scheme prepared. We had our rents discovered. The rents for houses for agricultural labourers would run to about 5/- per week—that is, 4/- rent and 1/- rates. By the imposition of this tax through an increase in the interest on the loan, there will be now an additional 1/6 per week on these houses, thereby increasing the rents to 6/6 per week. That is what this Labour-Fine Gael-Clann na Poblachta-Clann na Talmhan Government has done for the agricultural labourers in this country.

With regard to the old age pensioners, one would imagine from what we have heard during the course of this debate that nothing was ever done for the old age pensioners by the Fianna Fáil Government. It is hardly necessary for me to remind the House that Fianna Fáil restored the cut of 1/- which Fine Gael made in 1931. It is hardly necessary for me to remind the House that during the emergency supplementary allowances were made available for old age pensioners. In urban areas to-day old age pensioners are drawing 15/- per week. From that you may discountenance the fact that the Coalition Government are going to give them an increase of 7/6 per week. The most they are going to give them is 2/6 per week. I see the Minister shaking his head. Will he tell me where I am wrong?

12/6 and 17/6—the difference is 5/-.

You will still have to make more money.

I do not know why Deputy O'Rourke should be so sore about our giving the old age pensioners money.

I am delighted.

By taking away the vouchers the Government has again placed a levy upon the ratepayers at the expense of the taxpayers. These people have to be provided for and, if one does not provide for them out of taxation, then the rate-paying public must provide for them. That is what has been done in the case of the vouchers. Those people who were in receipt of vouchers are now applying to the relieving officer for assistance. What has been done with regard to food vouchers has placed the old people, the sick and the infirm, in a position in which they were not during the emergency. During the emergency extra rations were provided for them but the bread and butter has been taken from them by the action of the present Government.

Oatmeal prices have been increased. It means yet another tax on the farmer. There is an increase of 3/- per stone on oatmeal. If the people are unable to pay 3/- per stone extra, that means a reduction in the price of oats. As I have already said, you can tax people either by direct taxation or by increasing the cost of production, whereby you reduce their income.

I referred a few minutes ago to old age pensioners and to the fact that this Government is giving them an extra 2/6 per week. In County Kilkenny I will take a specific case where there are two old age pensioners and two sons and two daughters working. The national health contribution will be increased, according to the Minister's statement, by 3d. per week. Four threepences make 1/-. Add to that an increase of 1/6 in rent and your half-crown is gone.

I understand that in this case the Minister will reduce the interest as regards housing, but I further understand that Labour organisations in Dublin were able to give £100,000 at 2½ per cent. interest to the corporation to build houses. Will the Labour members agree to what the Minister is looking for? He is looking for 3¼ per cent. in relation to housing for people in rural Ireland. Will they stand for that if they themselves are prepared to lend at 2½ per cent? It will definitely raise the cost on the unfortunate people who kept many of those in the city in existence during the past six or seven years. Of course, the city outlook will not permit the Government to take notice of that. The Government have increased the rents of agricultural labourers' houses in Kilkenny by 1/6 per week, or 22½ per cent.

I appeal to the Minister to withdraw the tax he has levied on petrol for Ferguson tractors and to lend money on the same terms as it was lent by the Fianna Fáil Government—at 2½ per cent. for house-building purposes.

Deputies on this side of the House can at least congratulate the Minister for Finance on one thing and that is his complete dominance over the smaller groups in the Coalition Government. The reason why we can compliment him is that practically every speaker on Fianna Fáil platforms, in the course of the election, made it very clear that that would be the effect if a coalition Government were formed. Unfortunately, it came to pass that such is the position.

I regret seeing a man of the calibre of Deputy Larkin acting as the chief apologist of the Minister for Finance. Indeed, he made what I thought was a rather depressing speech in which he appeared to be suffering from certain qualms of conscience. He praised the Minister, as did Deputy Davin, but he also expressed grave fears in respect of certain aspects of the Budget. One of these aspects about which he showed his perturbation was in respect of mineral resources. A sum of £85,000, which was earmarked for the development of our mineral resources, is being withdrawn. He very rightly showed his anxiety by making an appeal to the Minister to forego that particular portion of his Budget.

Almost a century ago, a very learned scientist in this country, Dr. Robert Kane, wrote a thesis on our industrial resources. He went into the question of the mineral resources of the country in very great detail. Indeed, his thesis is as up-to-date to-day as when he wrote it. He wrote it for no other purpose than to encourage the people of this country who had money to invest it in resources within this country, which would eventually produce employment and wealth for the people. It is an amazing situation that 100 years after that eminent scientist made that great effort to have the industries of this country lifted up, a native Government and an Irish Minister for Finance should withdraw an infinitesimal sum which would pay valuable dividends.

I say that Deputies on the opposite benches should impress upon the Minister the need to have that money restored for the purpose for which it was earmarked. If they do that they will be doing a good day's work. Even in the days when that book was written, Dr. Kane pointed out that very large numbers of people were being employed in practical work on the land in their endeavour to mine ores and minerals that were known to exist. He gives facts and figures and points out in one place where something like 700 people were earning a living from that particular type of work. If that could be done at a time when equipment was crude, I suggest that now, with modern equipment and an opportunity of getting the work done quickly, is not the time to withdraw that money.

Will the Deputy say why his Government did not develop these mines 15 years ago?

The last Government was doing that work and the fact that they were responsible for this £85,000 estimate should be sufficient answer for the Minister.

Will the Deputy explain why Deputy Lemass last year told us that this type of work would be merely chasing hares?

I am making this suggestion without any reference whatever to political matters. I think the Minister will realise that this £85,000 would be very usefully employed if it were devoted to the purpose for which it was originally intended. He would realise that on examination.

There was nothing sincere in putting that down in the Book of Estimates.

During the course of the election various Parties in this House expressed their policies to the public and there are something like six different Parties. Each of these Parties had a separate programme which they placed before the public and they had various numbers of candidates standing before the people. Clann na Poblachta had something like 93 candidates standing and of that 93 they only secured 10 elections; the Labour Party had 43 candidates securing 14 seats; the National Labour Party had 14, securing five seats; Clann na Talmhan with 24 candidates secured seven to election and Independents who had 32 candidates secured 12 seats. Everyone of these Parties had a policy and a programme of their own though it cannot be suggested that the public accepted their programmes because an examination of the figures will show that, but however that may be, the position is that they are now members of one group and I would like to know what Clann na Poblachta, for instance, is going to do about their policy in respect of forestry. We all know that they were very keen on forestry and that it was their intention to plant something like 1,000,000 acres of trees in a period of five years. I have not heard forestry mentioned in the course of the discussions. It is perhaps one thing to talk to the public outside and another thing to put it into operation in here. Would it by any chance be because of the dominance of the Fine Gael policy which I mentioned a few minutes ago, that these numerous policies were dropped? We have not heard anything from the Labour Party in respect of their £37,000,000 programme which was to be operated according to their promises during the course of the election. Again it may be for the same reason.

We have another saving in this Budget of £25,000 which was earmarked by the former Government for the encouragement of athletics.

Not at all.

Why not at all?

What was it meant for? Would the Deputy say what the £25,000 was meant for.

The Deputy is trying to make his own speech.

With all due respect, the Deputy should not make such misstatements as that.

The Minister is under quite a misapprehension in saying that a Deputy may not make misstatements. Who is to be the judge of whether a Deputy makes misstatements or not?

The Chair.

The function of the Chair is to make rulings with regard to order.

The Deputy would have no objection to a question.

Put the question and let him answer it.

All Deputies would be anxious to see the youth of the country participating in healthy outdoor pastimes. I do not think that there is a Deputy in the House who would not say that it would be highly desirable that the youth of the country should be got out into the open to indulge in the training necessary in order to become proficient in athletics. If any Deputies in the House have any doubts about that they ought to consult the Minister for Health and I am pretty sure that the Minister for Health would be prepared to endorse the statement that participation by the youth of this country in healthy outdoor exercise is highly desirable and should be encouraged. If that is so, why then withdraw this meagre amount of £25,000 from something that was going to be of very great benefit to the youth of the country and incidentally a great benefit to the nation, as a result of the fact that a strong youth will naturally produce a strong healthy manhood? These are things that Deputies on the opposite side of the House will be anxious to see and anxious to encourage and why it should be withdrawn at this stage I cannot see.

If I might ask a question——

You may not ask a question without the Deputy's consent and if he objects to a question it may not be asked.

I do not object.

It is purely a matter of information. I have heard this scheme discussed and I am anxious to know, for my own information, how it was intended to spend the £25,000. I am quite in the dark as to that.

As far as I know, the money was to be spent in order to provide athletic training grounds throughout the country and to provide coaches to teach the youth the proper way to go about their training lest they should indulge in cruder methods that might endanger their health.

The Deputy is standing over that statement, I take it.

I am standing over the statement that a sum of money had been provided for this.

These were to be provided all over the country?

And the nation generally would benefit.

I would like to ask why——

I would like to ask the Minister to keep quiet and let the Deputy make his speech.

I would like to say further that it was only the first instalment of Government aid for the development of athletics.

Would the Deputy tell us the cost of one cinder track?

What was done in Dublin to-day might be done in the country later.

Let me ask——

The Deputy must get an opportunity of making his speech.

So much has been said with regard to the air service that has been exterminated, as some of the Government Deputies themselves suggested, that I would like to say that these planes which are now being got rid of were purchased—if I am not making a mistake—by the use of dollars. If that is so, I would like to know from the Minister for Finance whether they are being sold for dollars or for pounds. If they are being sold for pounds, of course, if the Minister's views on that subject are to be taken seriously, he is selling the Constellations for waste paper. I do not share his opinion in that regard but it would be interesting to know from the Minister if he is satisfied to accept pounds for aeroplanes which were purchased with dollars.

I do not want to go over what has been said in respect to the short-wave station but I should like to know if the same is happening with regard to the disposal of the short-wave radio equipment. If it is being sold, is it being sold to some foreign Power? I do not know whether the radio equipment was purchased with dollars or with sterling but it would be interesting to have that point cleared up. In particular, I would like to know to whom it is being sold.

In regard to savings, something like £750,000 is to be saved on the Estimate for the Department of Defence. I have no objection to that. That is a matter for the Minister. The Minister, of course, has operated his will in that respect. What I do feel is wrong is that he should come into the House and make a serious statement of this character—Volume 110, Dáil Debates, No. 6, columns 713 to 714:—

"I am glad to say that the proposed reductions which I have outlined in the Dáil were the proposals of the General Staff and there is not a single reduction there imposed on them by me. What was put to them by me was the general picture of the national situation and the desire and determination of the Government to effect sound economies everywhere economies could be effected, and then I asked for their proposals. Their proposals are the proposals I have read out in Dáil Éireann.

That suggests to me something like this: An individual who has been sentenced to death is allowed to choose the form of his execution.

Not always.

I say that that is what it suggests to me. It is not much consolation to the individual to know he can select his own form of dying. That is the position that was put up to the General Staff and then it is called "their proposals". They were told in clear language: "We want to reduce the Army Estimate by £750,000. Show us how you are going to do it."

The Deputy is familiar with the procedure.

And the Minister comes and calmly tells the House that these are the proposals and recommendations of the General Staff. And they are!

It always has been that way.

We know the circumstances in which the recommendations were made. He made another statement in rather picturesque and descriptive language. Again I quote from the Official Report, Volume 110, No. 6, column 712:—

"We have to remember that every man knocking sparks out of a barrack square——"

that is good, is it not?

"——is one less man in production and 1,000 extra men marching and counter-marching in any barrack square in this or any other country is the productivity of 1,000 men lost to the people."

These are fine words, picturesque and descriptive phrases, but let us examine them. I notice in the returns which, I presume, are issued by the Department of Industry and Commerce showing the week's unemployment figures that the figure given a fortnight ago was 6,000 more than the figure for a comparable week in the previous year. Last week the figure had increased by 1,000, which meant there were 7,000 unemployed more than were unemployed in the previous year. I suggest that it would have been much better for the State and the unemployed, especially those who would have been willing to have become soldiers, that they should have been knocking sparks out of a barrack square than that they should have been knocking sparks out of the labour exchange. Every reasonable man will admit that. When we get statements of that kind we should examine them and we should be honest with ourselves and ask ourselves what do they mean. What it means here is that we are neither finding employment for the men nor allowing them to become useful citizens by joining the Army and receiving the discipline and the physical development which the Army gives. It would be much more desirable that that should follow than that they should be knocking sparks out of the labour exchange.

There is nothing to prevent them joining the Army.

In the course of the debate, Deputies, especially those on the Government side, have made statements in regard to the former Government almost suggesting that that Government had done nothing whatever with regard to housing. I do not want to weary the House with a lot of statistics or tabular statements but I suggest that Deputies should look up these things and they will see, as far as the former Government is concerned, that they have done very valuable work. Not only have they carried out very valuable work but they left behind them, as can be seen from a White Paper issued at the beginning of the year, a plan for the building of something like 100,000 houses and flats for which a sum of £90,000,000 was earmarked. That plan, which would cover a number of years, would have been operated. I should like to know if it is the intention of the present Government to go ahead with that plan. I do not object if the Minister improves the plan. That would be all to the good. My anxiety is that that plan should not be dropped. The White Paper is there and can be examined and if what we do to-day someone else can better to-morrow, that is all to the good. We will be behind whatever Minister improves on the housing work which the Fianna Fáil Government operated over a number of years.

It was stated here to-day that something like 140,000 houses were built or reconstructed. That is perfectly true. That means that very large numbers of people, as a result of the régime of Fianna Fáil, were rescued from shocking slum conditions and put into reasonably decent, hygienic homes. Any of us who are honest have only to look around the City of Dublin and see the huge housing estates, north, south, east and west of the city. The estate in Crumlin is one of the most magnificent achievements that any Government or any people could accomplish and, even though it has been carried out under the auspices of Fianna Fáil, I say that every Deputy has reason to be proud as an Irishman that the Irish people could achieve such a magnificent objective. There you have a veritable town with a population about equal to that of the City of Limerick, erected and established in the course of a few years. That is something that every man, woman and child can be proud of. It does not matter what Government does it. We will be proud if the present Government achieves as much as we achieved. Had the former Government had the same activity and the same desire to spend money in the interests of those people in the slum areas, then the housing problem would be practically solved. Unfortunately, that was not the position. However long or short the present Government may reign, they should follow the example we set them as actively as they can and if they achieve something more than we achieved we will be just as proud of that as they will be themselves. About 65 per cent. of the 180,000 houses provided in the 50-year period were made available since 1932. That is something to be proud of. There were 53,000 built by local authorities and 60,000 provided under the Acts 1932-46.

What we were doing in regard to housing we were also doing in regard to health organisation. A White Paper issued on October 2nd, 1947, outlined the plans we hoped to operate, but which we were not given the opportunity to operate. We hope the present Government will not discard them but will try to improve on them. Under these valuable plans, £30,000,000 was earmarked for the development of health services. I am putting these points in good faith and not in any political sense. I hope the members of the Government, whatever they do, will not discard those plans but will improve on them.

Despite the jubilation with which this Budget has been welcomed by speakers on the Government Benches, there will be far less jubilation down the country when the full implications become widely known and understood. I do not intend to detain the House, but there are some items which I wish to speak against and which I intend to vote against. First and foremost, a large section of my constituents have been severely hit by the abolition of the hand-won turf scheme. Many of them dependent also for their livelihood as lorry owners were also adversely affected by that decision. These people have now a very poor future to face, as their means of livelihood has been taken away. It has been argued that the production of turf was uneconomic. On the other hand, we know of industries where not merely the actual wages and salaries were met in whole by subsidy, but the actual profits of the people concerned were also met out of subsidies. If it is fair to subsidise certain industries to that extent, surely a good case can be made for providing a subsidy for turf, which is giving so much employment in the districts once known during the British régime as the congested districts.

Those people are being hit also in another way. In the outlying districts they have not the advantage of creameries and that particular section of the farming community has been adversely affected by the abolition of the subsidy on farmers' butter. As a result, within the past fortnight, the price of butter in the market at Ennis has fallen 1/- a lb. It is poor consolation for those producers to know that this reduction is being made effective because of the support given to the Fine Gael Party in power by the other smaller Parties—Clann na Poblachta, Labour, Independent Labour and, more particularly, Clann na Talmhan, who were supposed to represent the farming community. This proposal is inequitable and unjust.

We had Deputy Madden, who represents a large creamery district in the Golden Vale, quoting scripture in his description of the Budget but at the same time deploring the fact that nothing was being done to improve the prices paid to the milk suppliers to the creameries. He did not deplore the fact that, not merely was nothing being done for the poorer sections of the farming community who have not the benefit of the creameries but that they are now having their means of livelihood taken from them and their sources of income reduced to the extent that has been done under this Budget. The Minister, in his desire for economy, has ranged over a very wide field. Amongst the items that have come under his axe are some that affect the rural parts of this country. There is a saving of a small sum for mineral exploration—a sum of £85,000.

That will be of very little benefit to the Exchequer but it might prove to be of very great benefit to the industrial development of this country. There is another item—a smaller amount of £10,000—which was proprovided to enable the unemployed from the western seaboard and the congested districts, who have been so adversely affected by this Budget already, to find employment of a seasonal nature in the Midlands and the eastern counties. That scheme, which was estimated to cost the small sum of £10,000, is being abandoned in the interests of economy. At the same time its abandonment is imperilling the safety of the harvest in the coming year. If we are to have a repetition of the harvest conditions we had the year before last the services of every available man will be required. Despite any assurances we may have got from the Minister for Agriculture, there is no guarantee but that the entire harvest will be required by our people in the future as it was in the past. We are told, of course, that all this is being done in the interests of economy—to enable the Minister to provide the additional sum of £600,000 for increased benefits for the old age pensioners and the widows and orphans.

The Minister told us that 150,000 old age pensioners would benefit under this scheme, with 22,000 others plus an unnamed number of new applicants. That gives a total of at least 172,000 persons who will share this £600,000 between them. A simple sum will show that the average amount each person will receive will be in the neighbourhood of 1/3 per head per week in the present year. It is because of this average increase of 1/3 per week that we have all the jubilation from the benches opposite and that we have had to impose these hardships on the most industrious and hard-working section of our people.

The Minister has also chosen to impose an additional tax of 5d. a gallon on petrol. It is all very well to say that only the wealthy people use motor cars. Nowadays everybody, no matter how poor he may be, has to use a bus or other means of transport which are driven by petrol.

Including the Deputy.

That amount will not be paid directly by the transport companies—it will be passed on to the users of these vehicles and will thus help to raise the cost of living which the Minister set out to reduce. We were promised during the election that the Fine Gael Party, if returned to power, would reduce the cost of living and, as well as that, reduce taxation by £10,000,000. I submit that this Budget, far from doing any of these things, indicates that there will be an increase in the cost of living and no reduction in taxation.

It is not just for the sake of speaking that I now propose to say a few words. As a matter of fact, the situation in my constituency forces me to speak on behalf of certain people who have suffered very much within the last few weeks. I refer in particular to those people who were engaged in turf production and who are now unemployed. Almost all of these people live in the very congested areas in various parts of County Roscommon. The same remarks apply, of course, to people living in the mountainous, boggy districts of Mayo, Galway and, in fact, every county in the west. It is not just for the sake of abusing the Government in office that I speak. I am doing so in the hope that something will be done, and done immediately, to alleviate the suffering that is bound to be caused by the discontinuance of the hand-won peat scheme. There are, it is true, a very small number working on the machine-produced turf. In this connection I may say that, from what I have seen, I do not think these small machines are going to be of any advantage whatsoever. I know that the big machines which are used in Leinster are a great success and are producing turf at a cheap rate.

However, I do not think that will hold in regard to the machines I have seen engaged in turf production in the West. As a matter of fact, I consider that the staff of five per machine, who are employed to work it, would produce as much turf by hand. In addition, I am of opinion that in most cases only the very worst class of turf is being cut and that the good turf, which is underneath, is left there. However, that refers only to a very limited number of men. The vast majority who were engaged on the job, before the order came to discontinue it, are now unemployed. We are told that they are going to get alternative employment. I hope that that is true. I only know of the case as it is in County Roscommon. We are offered £12,000 provided we put up £4,000. That would make a total of £16,000. Last year the amount paid in wages by the county council for hand-produced turf was £74,000. Anybody can see that a total of £16,000— provided the council gives the £4,000— is a very small fraction of what the figure should be. This proposal came before the last meeting of our county council. A motion was there tabled by the people who are not pro-Fianna Fáil. Fianna Fáil has the majority in the council but this motion was tabled by members who are opposed to us. It was to the effect that the council should not contribute anything—that the grant should be free and that it should be increased. That is the position there now. As I understand the situation—I hope I will be corrected if I am wrong—the money being applied by the Government as a substitute for the money spent on hand-produced turf is taken out of the Employment Schemes Vote, so that money would be coming from employment, anyhow.

What are the Government doing? Nothing so far as I can see. But we are asked to provide £4,000. In ordinary times that would not appear to be so much, but our rates are now 22/1 in the £ and under the new health schemes, etc., there are increased demands and will be increased demands in the future, and I think any responsible councillor cannot feel that it is justifiable to ask the council to provide £4,000 for something which they had no share in bringing about. It was not the county council that brought about the unemployment of hundreds of men.

I am seriously seeking information yet about this statement which has been made that the former Minister for Industry and Commerce proposed to stop hand-produced turf. If that is true, I am terribly surprised. I was chairman of the Fianna Fáil Party at that time and never heard anything about that. I did hear that it was proposed to use machinery mainly in the Leinster bogs so as to produce turf for use in Dublin and elsewhere. But I did not hear any word whatever that the hand-produced turf in the West of Ireland and elsewhere was to be discontinued. The fact is that there were never so many men employed as there were just before the order to stop came. These are the facts as I know them. I am not going to quarrel or speak in anger about this matter, but I do speak really in sorrow, because I think that something should be done and done at once. We hope to have a deputation received by the Minister on this very question and that he will depart from the conditions he is imposing, namely, a contribution by the council of a sum of money which they cannot reasonably provide. I am honestly speaking the truth.

The Minister for Finance said across the House some time ago that I seemed to be vexed because the old age pensions were being increased. I can assure him that there is no one, neither himself nor anyone backing him, who is more proud to see the old age pensions increased than I am. The old age pensioners are a section of the community which I have worked for all my life.

You kept quiet about them for a long time.

I did not.

Did you vote against them?

I always voted in the place where it was most effective and any member of my Party can tell you that. I can tell the Minister that there is nobody better pleased than I am at any assistance that is provided for the old age pensioners or the widows. The only doubt that I have about it is that the sum provided is not so very big.

You said £600,000 for part of the year. If it is only £600,000 for this year, you will admit that that is very little, unless you increase it.

How much would you have given if you were still in Government?

If we did it at all we would do it right.

It would be like the sympathy he gave the teachers.

Our Minister for Social Welfare was engaged on this matter and I cannot say how much. I can assure the Minister, however, that he would not have any more ardent backer than I would be on that question.

It would be like old times to have you back again.

In old and new times I have always backed that class of people and the Minister will find that wherever he finds any record of me. I would appeal to the Minister to deal liberally this year anyhow with those unemployed turf workers. If his policy is to depart from the production of hand-won turf, I deplore it and I hope he will revise it. I believe it is a very valuable industry. I hope for this year in any case he will deal liberally, whereever he gets the money, with those people who will be knocked out of employment. Apart from this proposal to increase old age pensions, I cannot see anything commendable in the Budget. It is more or less a negative one.

What about the tea ration?

The former Minister for Industry and Commerce told you on the day you introduced the Budget that you could do away with the rationing of tea if you liked—that there was sufficient tea in the country to do that.

He did not say that when we were in Opposition.

The tea was there when you became the Government.

Why did you not do it?

The turf was there too.

The sugar is there now.

Perhaps Deputies will bring this conversation to a close.

I should also like to refer to the absence of some things from this Budget. There was a certain proposal with regard to the teachers and I was twitted the other day with not backing the teachers. There, again, I cannot plead guilty to any of these things, because in every way that I could I did back the teachers.

Wait a moment. Let me explain.

He did back the teachers.

The other sinner is talking with you now.

There was a motion introduced by the present Minister for Education, I think, to the effect that there should be arbitration on this question of the salaries of teachers.

What has that to do with the Budget?

It has a lot to do with the Deputy's past.

The Deputy is well able to take care of himself. I said that that was a bit of political eyewash. There is no provision made in this Budget for that, which shows that it was political eyewash. Nobody can deny it. I am deeply disappointed at that, in view of the fact that every one of the people now on the Government Benches voted, as they pretended, in favour of the teachers. But there is no evidence of that sympathy in this Budget.

A Deputy

How did the Deputy vote?

I voted honestly as I always do.

No eyewash.

He voted against the teachers being tricked. That is how he voted.

These gentlemen are always trying to justify themselves. I understand that the Minister is determined to cut down the grant for school buildings. I hope I am wrong in that.

I am glad to hear it. I have been told that.

That was only Fianna Fáil propaganda.

You will find it in the Budget statement.

Will you find it for me?

Did you not say that the building of schools would be confined to those absolutely necessary?

Look it up.

Have you the speech?

I can get it. You will find that I am right.

May I read it? "The programme of State buildings in the present year, apart from works actually in progress and national schools, will be restricted"—"apart from national schools."

I am glad to hear that. The rumour has been circulated. I am glad to hear that the school building programme will be continued because it is very necessary. I am very glad to have the assurance of the Minister on that matter.

You had it before you made the statement.

As a supplement to the road work which is to be provided for those who are disemployed we are told that drainage work will be started. I hope it will start soon because, undoubtedly, a big number of those who were engaged on turf production have already left or are applying for permits to leave the country. It would be a disaster if those people had to leave the country especially in view of the fact that no provision is made for a grant for harvest work.

I do not wish to delay the House any longer. I do not think there is any aspect of this Budget that has not been discussed. Everything that has been said has been repeated. Before I finish there is one thing I would ask the members of the present Government to do. I was present at various meetings during the election, and long before it, and I heard many charges made against the late Government of jobbery, corruption, etc. Now I am sure the present Government is in a position to prove these charges if there is any foundation for them. I have no knowledge and I want to say this candidly regarding these things, that I should have to be convinced that they did happen. Even since the formation of the new Government a member of the Cabinet has stated that in future——

On a point of order, is this relevant?

I was going to call the Deputy's attention to the fact that it has nothing whatever to do with the Budget.

This is my finish up.

That does not excuse irrelevancy.

It excused a lot of other things.

That is not so. Does the Deputy want to suggest that the Chair let other things pass deliberately?

I think I would be fairly correct in suggesting that.

The Deputy will withdraw that, if he is suggesting that the Chair has let other irrelevant statements pass.

What Chair?

The institution—the Chair.

I did not say it was you at all.

I do not care to whom you refer. You referred to the Chair.

What did I say about the Chair? Did I accuse the Chair of anything?

Deputies

Sit down.

The Deputy will resume his seat.

I understood the Deputy to say that other irrelevant matters were allowed to pass when I held him up for speaking irrelevantly. Do I understand the Deputy to say that?

What other irrelevancies?

That the Chair allowed other irrelevant matters to pass.

I stressed that about three-quarters of what was said on the Budget was irrelevant.

Tá cupla ceist agam le chur ar an Aire mar gheall ar an gCáinfhaisneis seo. The first matter that I want to refer is one that affects very acutely the constituency that I represent. That is the dairying industry. There is no extra provision in this Budget for the dairying industry. It has been referred to already, in an apologetic kind of way, by a speaker on the Government Benches who represents the same constituency as myself. I would like to know from the Minister if there is any prospect of an improvement in the position of dairy farmers who derive their principal means of livelihood from dairying. That applies to the farmers in the constituency of West Limerick. I know that a good deal of money has already been provided in the Budget by way of subsidy. The subsidy that was provided last year is being provided again this year.

This problem of dairying is, I know, particularly difficult for any Government or Minister. I am quite prepared to admit that, but the County Committee of Agriculture in Limerick, which can speak with authority for the farmers of County Limerick with regard to dairying, has asked for improved prices for the milk supplied to creameries. The Minister for Agriculture told me, in reply to a question, that he does not propose to recommend the Government to do anything, that he considers that the prices that are being paid at present to farmers who are sending milk to the creameries is quite satisfactory. But a body in the County Limerick which can speak with authority on that subject does not agree with the Minister for Agriculture on that, and the principal combatant on behalf of the dairy farmers is a supporter of the present Government. I am asking the Minister if he proposes to do anything either by way of subsidy or in the way of freeing the industry from control. Butter is now a very scarce commodity on the market. It is rationed, and if it were de-controlled the price would go up. I am interested to know what is the policy of the Minister and the Government in regard to that in the future. I am raising this question on the Budget as it is the Minister for Finance who has to find the money.

The question of turf was dealt with ad nauseam. It also affects the constituency that I represent. Last year there was a sum of £22,000 paid by the Limerick County Council in wages for turf workers employed by the county council. That scheme was to be carried on this year by Bord na Móna. All preparations had been made to start it on the 1st March. Now we are told it is going to be replaced by a county road scheme. The amount of the grant made available to Limerick County Council for that scheme is £10,000, and they have to find an additional sum of £3,333. That will not provide for the people disemployed in the same way as the turf scheme did last year. There is a difference, therefore, of £9,000 in the amount of money available for work in County Limerick. All the turf that was won under the county council scheme, since the emergency started, was, I understand, used by the local authority institutions either in the county or City of Limerick. That could have been the case again this year.

There is another point with regard to this turf scheme. I understand that this year the rate of wages for workers in the bogs under Bord na Móna would be £3 4s. 0d. a week as a minimum, with the prospect of a bonus on output. The wage available last year was, I think, 50/-. The wages on the road scheme will not be as good as the wages that would have been available for the men now disemployed if they were working under Bord na Móna, so that they are hit every way.

Taking the Budget as a whole, the only thing of benefit that is in it as far as the community is concerned, is the increase promised to old age pensioners and to widows and orphans. The Minister was pretty obscure in the details he gave about these increases. He said that the increases for old age pensioners would be from 2/6 a week to 5/- a week, but that the pension would not be more than 17/6. He was obscure also as to the date on which the increases will come into operation. Will it be the 1st September, the 1st October, the 1st November or the 1st December or when will it be? He was also obscure as to the rate of increase that will be available for widows and orphans. I should like if he would clarify both these issues when he is replying. The amount of money set aside, £600,000, will not, I think, go very far in providing an increase of 5/- for old age pensioners and what the Minister called "substantial increases" in widows' and orphans' pensions. It took over £1,000,000, nearly £1,250,000, to provide an all-round increase of 2/6 for old age pensioners last year for the full year. If that was the case when an increase of only 2/6 was given, how far is the £600,000 going to go? I should like the Minister to clear up the obscurity as to when this scheme is to come into operation and the rates of increases that will be available for widows and orphans, both contributory and non-contributory.

Finally, I should like to ask the question, what is the policy enshrined in this Budget? What is to be the future policy with regard to various aspects of our life in this country? What is the policy of this Government with regard to economic development and industrial development? What is to be the agricultural policy? We have heard rumbles from the Minister for Agriculture that he wants to go back to the pre-1932 policy, the policy that has come to be known as "Hoganism"—and I say that without any disrespect to the man who gave it its name. That was the Fine Gael-Cumann na nGaedheal policy. There is no mandate for the resuscitation of the old Cumann na nGaedheal policy in any shape or form.

What about the Agricultural Loan Fund?

There is no mandate at all from the people for the resuscitation of the old Fine Gael policy. That was finished in 1932. It is dead and damned by the votes of the people and there is no authority for the resuscitation of it. As a matter of fact, no mandate has been given to any of these Parties opposite for any of their policies. They have no mandate from the people. Fine Gael has no mandate, neither has Clann na Poblachta nor Clann na Talmhan, neither has the Labour Party nor the National Labour Party. If any mandate at all was given in the last election, it was given to the Party over here. We have more than twice the number of any other Party. The people have given a mandate for the continuation of the Fianna Fáil programme, the policy of national development, the old Sinn Fein policy. What policy is going to replace it? We have got no clear statement from the Government on that matter and I think it is only fair that we should get such a statement on the occasion of the introduction of the Budget.

I do not wonder that Deputies on the opposite side get vexed about mandates but I really think the Fianna Fáil Party should be ashamed of themselves. They have wasted the time of the House for the last three or four days on which the Dáil sat, as the Lord Mayor of Cork pointed out, talking about turf. The situation in regard to turf is the legacy which the Fianna Fáil Party left to this Government. The turf position to-day it what they made it. They handled the production and distribution of turf in such a way that no one will burn it nowadays. Nobody wants turf. They have destroyed the turf industry themselves. At the present moment in the Phoenix Park, there are miles of banks composed of nothing but coal dirt. Passing through the Park recently on my way to a race meeting, I saw these banks stretching on every side, practically all dirt and it was a sad thing to think that good ships were wasted in bringing such stuff into this country. That is one of the reasons why there is a slump now in the demand for turf.

The Deputy who is chairman of the Roscommon County Council spoke of the unemployment which, he alleged, existed amongst those who formerly worked in the production of turf. He is chairman of the Roscommon County Council and he is aware that every year previous to this, during the months of April, May, June and July, all men available were employed on the bogs while not a single soul was employed on the roads. Why not give these men employment on the roads now? He said that the rates had gone up by 4/- or 5/- in the £ because he knew these men would have to be put to work on the roads. If he had given the engineers in the county proper instructions, he would not have an unemployed man in County Roscommon now. The Fianna Fáil Party tried that bogey in Westmeath at a county council meeting last Monday week but we passed a resolution directing that every ablebodied man should be employed from the very next day. We were not dependent on funds to be provided by the Government to do so. We realised that in former years during the months of April, May and June we never spent a penny on the roads and that probably we would have to face a different situation this year.

As a result of the steps we took to provide the necessary funds, together with the grant coming from the Government, we will not have an ablebodied man unemployed in the county. Every county council in the country could do the same thing. They could provide for this work from the first day of April in their estimates and not be holding the money up until the months of September and October when the men will be required for harvesting work. There should be no unemployment because every county council so far as I know can make provision for extra work on the roads. You will find that every man who was formerly employed on the bogs can now be employed on the roads.

We have now got a good sensible Government and we have a good Minister who will, I am sure, provide more money for this purpose if the money already provided is not sufficient. He showed in the Budget that he can manage a difficult financial situation capably. People asked how he was going to get over the gap of £8,000,000. Honestly, I did not know—I do not understand much about finance—how he would bridge the gap, but he succeeded in doing so. We were told at the election that if De Valera did not get back, the old age pensioners and the widows and orphans would lose their pensions but the widows and orphans and the old age pensioners have now got increased allowances. The criticism which we have listened to for the last few days from the opposite benches is just so much propaganda and waste of time. If Deputies opposite would only realise that the people are solidly behind the present Government, if they would try to help the Government instead of trying to put up obstacles, it would be much better. For the last three or four days we have heard complaints about taking money from the widows' and orphans' pension fund but it is time that these moneys were utilised to benefit the people for whom they were intended instead of holding it up indefinitely like the tuberculosis scheme. We know that hundreds were waiting for new hospitals while the Government were dallying with that scheme.

It was the same way with the widows and orphans. Hundreds of them might be dead before any benefits out of this fund would materialise under the previous Government's policy. We have heard complaints also about the increases in national health contributions but it is time that something was done to increase the scanty allowances which a man received when ill—£1 a week and 15/- a week after six months. People must be human in their treatment of the unfortunate sick, and I do not think that employers or employees will grudge paying increased contributions to provide better allowances for invalids.

I recently came across an instance in which an old lady applied for the blind pension under the Fianna Fáil Government and got 6/- a week. Why did she get only that amount? Because her husband was getting £1 a week home assistance from the Westmeath County Council. I wrote up to the present Minister for Social Welfare and I understand that is what happened. The home assistance which the husband was receiving was counted as income. Is it just or human that a woman whose husband is so poor that he must get £1 a week home assistance, will have her blind pension cut down to 6/- a week because of that fact? I am glad that the means test is about to be abolished. I think most old age pensioners should be entitled to the full pension when they reach 70 years of age. I maintain that any worker or his wife, when he or she reaches 70 years of age, should get the full pension. If the man works for nine or ten weeks, his wife does not get the pension. That is inhuman, and I hope that, when the modification of the means test comes into operation, it will do away with that state of affairs.

We heard a lot of talk about farmers' butter and someone spoke of butter at 1/- and 1/2 a Ib. in Clare. We in Westmeath welcome the doing away with the subsidy on farmers' butter, because, if we brought butter into Mullingar market and got 3/- a Ib. for it, we were summoned. Now we can get 3/- a Ib. for it—we are free to sell it. If there was a subsidy, farmers in Westmeath never got it but anyone who made stinking dirty butter got the subsidy from the factories. We made good sweet butter and we welcome the doing away with the subsidy.

I want to congratulate the Minister on his Budget which I say is a fine Budget. Since it was presented, the people of the country feel free and easy, and there is an air of freedom generally in the country. The people know where they are and they are not afraid to move. Everything has changed. The weather is good and everything is good, and, if we are sensible, we will be able to have a good country here.

I want to advert to a subject which has not been dealt with very adequately in this discussion—the question of turf. It has scarcely been mentioned during the debate, but if all the turf talked about here had been produced and put up in the Park, we would not need to import coal for the next ten years. I sympathise with Deputies on the opposite benches in their tears with regard to turf and the unemployment which they say will be created. We have constant and repeated assertions from the Fianna Fáil back-benchers that they had nothing to do with the abandonment of the hand-won turf scheme. They are practically alone in that position because the general public are aware that the previous Government had decided to get away from hand-won turf.

There is a sum of £1,900,000 in the Estimate. Will it be spent? Is that not a clear question?

Which you said you did not know anything about.

Will it be spent or not?

Deputy Keyes is entitled to make his statement without interruption.

He is not the only Deputy who has that right.

Deputy Lemass had a long time to speak himself.

And Deputy McGilligan has interrupted 256 times to-day without reprimand from the Chair. I counted them.

The Deputy has not been here long enough to hear me interrupt so often.

That was the number of interruptions while I was here.

I am prepared——

And the Chair is not prepared to hear the 257th interruption.

——to say that there is sufficient business acumen and common sense in the Government and on the front and back benches of Fianna Fáil to realise that the time had come when it was not possible to continue hand-won and machine turf at the same time, that it was necessary to get on to machine turf, if it was proposed to maintain the industry at all, and it is generally recognised that there was a departure from hand-won turf.

So there was.

Otherwise, it would have been suicidal. The Government has made a genuine effort to provide useful alternative employment on roads and small drainage schemes at good wages for the men who have been taken away from turf. It would not have been useful work to continue producing turf for which there was no market and it will probably not be possible to get a market for the turf which is already piled up. I hope that machine turf will take its proper place as an Irish fuel in competition with coal to reduce by 50 or 60 per cent. the coal imports, but this constant whining about the loss of hand-won turf is the one black spot in this debate. The fact that Opposition Deputies have fastened on to that point is sufficient evidence to show that there is very little in the Budget into which they can sink their teeth. Their remarks were intended as a kind of panegyric because they had hoped that the day of the introduction of the Budget would be the last day of the inter-Party Government.

I am glad to note that the estimates of the life of that Government are being extended. Deputy Allen gave us six months and some body else said 12 months, so that, by degrees, the estimated life of the Government is becoming longer. I hope the Opposition realise that this Government will introduce another Budget which, I am sure, will be even more impressive than this Budget. They have been taunted with failure to produce all the schemes about which they spoke on the hustings. They have been about three months in office, but if they had been 16 years in office, like Fianna Fáil, they would have produced much better Budgets than ever Fianna Fáil produced, and that is not saying very much.

Deputy O'Rourke's attitude was, I think, very unworthy. He said that his county council had refused to contribute to the employment schemes and that they insisted on getting a 100 per cent. grant from Government funds. Deputy Fagan has dealt adequately with that point. It is very unpatriotic for any county council to refuse to make their contribution towards putting people into employment. Deputy O Briain complained that if the turf scheme had gone on, the wages paid would have increased to £3 4s., while the wages on the road schemes will be only 56/-, so that the imaginary wages which might have been paid are to be reduced to the sorry sum of 56/—all pure imaginary stuff, as against the solid reality that a definite effort is being made to absorb the people who will lose their employment at hand-won turf into productive work on the roads and boreens. That should get the co-operation of everybody, irrespective of Party, because, as Deputy Traynor, whose contribution to this debate I admired more than anything I heard from the opposite benches, said, it ought to be a matter of common concern when it becomes a question of dealing with the needs and necessities of the people. The relieving of unemployment and the building of houses are not matters for scoring political debating points and not matters to be carried into the county council chambers for the purpose of blaming either Government. The people elected to this House should have a higher conception of their responsibility. We may have slanging matches here from time to time, but these are matters which deserve more serious consideration.

Having found it necessary to do what has been done, the Government is making a genuine and decent effort to provide alternative employment in the turf areas and I cannot think very much of the patriotism, local or national, of the members of these councils who refuse to make a contribution, unless they get a 100 per cent. grant from public funds. It indicates that they hope to damn the scheme propounded by the Minister for Local Government. Notwithstanding the wails from the Opposition Benches, I believe that these Deputies know in their hearts that the Budget has been surprisingly well received. It has not brought about miracles and people did not expect miracles. The fact is that they have been able to produce this Budget, and all the revolutions we heard about did not take place. The old age pensioners were not turned back from the post offices the day after the Government was formed and widows' and orphans' pensions were not cut off. Prior to the last election the people had been told that if the Fianna Fáil Government were not successful old age pensions and widows' and orphans' pensions, which were brought in through the good will of Fianna Fáil would automatically cease. There was jubilation in the ranks of pensioners when, after the recent change of Government, they found their pensions had not been cut off. There will be more jubilation still because of the increase that has been made, not a very considerable one, perhaps, but certainly one that will help.

Where are they going to get it?

That is worrying you, is it not?

The general opinion throughout the country among the better educated people was that there was no alternative to Fianna Fáil. Recent events have proved that there is an alternative. Some amazement was evident when the Coalition Government was first formed. Its formation under such difficult auspices has been just one other proof that there is an alternative. The wheels are moving smoothly now and I can assure the House that when we come before it this time 12 months we will have progressed towards a position in which we will be able to put forward an even more satisfactory Budget.

I do not know of any measure which has received such lukewarm support in this House as the present Budget. It has been damned with faint praise by members on the Government Benches. It was quite evident from their speeches that their hearts were not behind it. With their election promises so fresh in their minds one can well understand their attitude. We were told by members of Clann na Poblachta that they are delighted with the Budget because it provides £600,000 for old age pensions and widows' and orphans' pensions. The Deputy who made that statement promised in his election address an old age pension of 26/- per week at the age of 65.

Without a means test.

That would have cost an additional £16,000,000. He is delighted now because he has got £600,000. £2,000,000 extra was provided for social services in last year's Budget. The people who benefited under our social service schemes were told on the election platforms that they were being absolutely neglected. Now, an additional £600,000, mulcted on the contributors to the fund, is evidently a matter for congratulation.

There was an outcry about the Standstill Order because it affected wages and salaries. From the Minister's own statement on this Budget it is clear that wages and salaries are included as well as profits. The Government is merely trying to deceive itself in endeavouring to impress upon this House that it only applies to profits. We heard Deputy Davin speak very strongly yesterday about excess profits. What difference is there this year in the position as it exists now from the position as it prevailed then? Why does he not use the same language as he used then about the present Government and the present Minister? Is not the position exactly the same? If he wishes to be consistent, should he not say so? I think Deputy Davin should give us some credit for intelligence and honesty. If he feels so strongly about things why does he not insist that remedial steps be taken under this Budget?

The Atlantic air line has been abandoned. We have heard a lot from time to time about prestige. I would remind the Deputies on the Government Benches that Arthur Griffith wrote at length at one stage of our history about the injury done to this country through England by-passing Cobh for shipping in the Atlantic. Liverpool and Southampton were developed out of that. Our geographical position to-day is the same as it was then. It is just as important on the Atlantic air route as it was on the shipping route. We all know that the future of transport is in the air. To-day we have a native Government cutting out the advantages we had by being in on the ground floor for trade on that route. They have thrown over all that has been done and they have thrown away the advantages of the friendship of our people in America. I refrain from saying anything about the financial disabilities imposed through the non-accumulation of dollars we might otherwise have had. A native Government is guilty to-day of the very crime that Arthur Griffith condemned in a foreign Government. I hope the members of the Government Benches can congratulate themselves on that. Surely, there is no economy in cutting out an important national enterprise, an enterprise in competition with every nation on the western seaboard of Europe.

We are throwing away the advantage we had because one day the air route on the Atlantic will have to be taken up. When that day comes it will probably be a much more expensive enterprise and taken up under less favourable circumstances. We are throwing it all away now. One of the first points in the ten-point programme of the new Government was an agreement to stop emigration. We are training up young Irishmen now at some expense to ourselves and these young men are going to foreign countries where that training, at our expense, is of advantage to them. Only last week several young men decided to leave because they were so dissatisfied with their prospects. It is foolishness on our part to do these things. There can be no economy in such a system.

Under this Budget, catering establishments will pay the full price for rationed goods. We are told that that will not affect the ordinary consumer. As far as the big hotels are concerned it probably will not. But in the case of the smaller establishments, which are supported chiefly by thousands of people who lunch in town, whose profits are restricted to some extent, the price will be passed on. I move to report progress.

Progress reported.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 25th May.
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