This matter arose out of a question addressed to me to-day as to whether I would give the Dáil an opportunity of considering the terms and conditions of repayment of any proposed foreign loan before the Government agrees to accept it. My reply was that if any agreement for a foreign loan came within the Article of the Constitution to which I referred, the agreement naturally would come before Dáil Éireann for approval. I went on to say that, whether it did or not, I was prepared to acquaint Dáil Éireann of the terms and conditions applicable to the proposed loan. How that answer can be supposed to be unsatisfactory, I do not know. The Deputy has decided to put this matter within the framework of raising the recent agreement made in London, and, dealing with the financial arrangements which reads:
"In addition to the matters covered by the formal arrangement, it was agreed that, pending clarification of the amount of assistance to be received from the U.S.A. under the European Recovery Programme, the Government of Ireland will continue to effect the maximum economy in expenditure of hard currencies and would not exceed the level of expenditure during the first half of 1948. The Government of Ireland will use their utmost endeavours to obtain the maximum amount of aid available under the European Recovery Programme, with the object of ensuring, as far as practicable, that their recourse to the sterling area pool for hard currencies will not involve any ultimate drain on the pool."
I want to go back two steps from that. Last autumn, the Government of which the Deputy was a member signed an agreement and the dollar requirements were stated in this way:
"It was agreed that the Irish Government, with a view to conserving the dollar resources of the sterling area, would effect substantial reductions in their drawings of dollars from the dollar pool for the period 1st October, 1947, to 30th June, 1948, bringing the net requirements to..."
and then certain figures are mentioned Prior to that, in September of last year, the then Minister for Industry and Commerce told a meeting which he addressed that "the London dollar pool is running dry and what is left of it is insufficient to meet the needs of countries like ours who have claims on it, except for a very short time. The net result is that we will have to curtail our purchases from the United States of America and at some stage they may even have to stop". That is the framework into which I want to put this matter.
In that context the Minister for External Affairs, my colleague, recently introduced into this House a Convention for European Co-operation, and, in asking the Dáil to approve of that convention, he said that he at one time had certain doubts whether we could accept a loan, seeing that the repayment terms were set out in terms of dollars. He had some doubt whether we could service the loan and ultimately make the repayment. He indicated that a certain easement of our situation had been brought about and that we had good assurances with regard to the servicing of the loan, and, so far as the rest was concerned, he said that the whole Marshall Plan aimed at the objective of making sterling convertible with dollars, that it was not our gamble so much as the gamble of the Americans, and they believed that sterling would be exchangeable for dollars, or would be interchangeable, at the end of four years. The Deputy will have noticed, since the Minister spoke here on 1st July, that Mr. Hoffman, the administrator, has spoken publicly and announced his belief that there would be convertibility at the end of that period. In any event, the whole plan is based upon that, and to a certain extent our fears with regard to it have been modified because we have found that the American objective is still held to. They believe it will work out and it is hardly for us to say that the complete objective of the Marshall Plan will break down.
As to what I am to do, the relevant Article of the Constitution says that every international agreement to which the State becomes a party shall be laid before Dáil Éireann. I believe that any agreement made with the Export-Import Bank must be regarded as an international agreement and must come before Dáil Éireann, and I said so to-day. I said that there was some doubt about it, but that I had very little doubt myself. The second sub-paragraph of paragraph (5) of Article 29 says that the State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge on public funds unless the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann. It does not say: "Shall have been approved beforehand by Dáil Éireann." I have stated here as a public assurance that, in any event, whether I am bound by that Article or not, whether, in other words, the agreement is an international agreement or not, I am prepared to acquaint Dáil Éireann with the terms and conditions applicable to the proposed loan and, if necessary, have a discussion on the matter; but I do say to the Deputy—and I think it is a statement which I should be entitled in reason to make—that if the House is not sitting and it is a question of clinching a loan at a particular time and getting the matter approved of later, I think I am entitled to clinch the loan and to get approval after.
In the matter of the terms and conditions of the loan, nothing much is going to be written into any detailed arrangement likely to be come to that has not already been announced to the Dáil. Let us take it that they will be of the most onerous type—repayment in dollars and servicing of the loan in the meantime. We have certain funds at our disposal and certain assurances with regard to others. We believe that we can carry out our promise in that respect, and, through the Minister for External Affairs, we made clear to the American Government and those administering the Marshall Aid Plan what our position was and they are well acquainted with it.
As to whether there will necessarily be any charge upon public funds, I ask the Deputy to consider that. Some people hold the view—I do not know whether the Deputy shares it—that, because we get a loan, whatever we get by way of loan will be loaned to people here. That is not the situation. We will sell for the equivalent of the dollar value whatever we get to people here. We will have a fund and there will be sufficient funds to repay our obligations to America. There will be a currency but whether that currency will be convertible or not does not depend on us. The Americans are ready to take that gamble. Having modified our fears, as to whether we should take that risk, we have made our position perfectly clear to them, and I think we are on terms of the utmost good faith with the American Administration in that regard.
So far as this House is concerned, I have already stated, and I repeat here, that, whatever the terms and conditions of the loan are, the Dáil will get an opportunity of discussing it, but I cannot bind myself to say, and nobody should ask me to say that that discussion will take place before any agreement is entered into. The terms of the Constitution I will obey, but I will go further than the terms of the Constitution and give the Dáil as much opportunity as it desires, at the proper time, of discussing, either beforehand, it if it is possible, what we intend to do, or, after the event, if we have done something.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 8th July, 1948.