Last night I was drawing attention to a statement the Minister made in the Seanad on the sale of local authority houses, and trying to relate that statement to the preparation of purchase schemes by local authorities. Members and officials of local authorities, while they are anxious for the co-operation of the tenants, are faced with many problems in preparing their schemes. I believe that the Minister would do well to give suggestions to local authorities. I have no intention of going into a matter which we cannot claim to have discussed on this Estimate, but we do know that the existing purchase Act leaves us in grave doubt in many respects. I may recall without going into detail the instance I mentioned last night While on the one hand we ask tenants to purchase their houses from the local authority, we have on the other hand such interesting cases as this: a tenant of an old local authority cottage, a kitchen and two rooms, has purchased his cottage under the Act; a son of his with that son's wife and three children occupy one room; the local county medical officer decides that under the heading of overcrowding the son is eligible for a cottage of his own from the local authority.
That was agreed to, and the son went into occupation of his own cottage. Then the old man, believing that, under the Purchase Act, he was entitled to sell, offered his cottage for sale. We believed that that could be done under certain circumstances. It seems extraordinary, then, that the county manager, believing that the powers vested in him warranted such action, should decide that the tenant was not entitled to sell. However, that is beside the point at the moment. Instead of adopting some reasonable measure, he proceeded in court, not against the old man, but against the son, and claimed possession of the newly-given cottage. That new cottage had been given on the advice of the county medical officer and on the responsibility of the county manager himself. Apparently they considered they were entitled to prevent the sale of an old purchase cottage by moving in court for the eviction of the son from his newly-given cottage. If we are interested in getting tenants to purchase their cottages, some other attitude must be adopted. Local authorities are now preparing purchase schemes which will eventually be submitted to the Minister. Instead of waiting until they are submitted, however, and then referring them back, it would be more appropriate if the Minister would now send them, not directions, but advice, which would help them to expedite the preparation of those schemes.
It is an everyday complaint—and people are justified in making it—that there are too many Acts in connection with local government. Even local officials and members of local authorities who want to inquire into any given subject find that the Act they refer to is tied up with another score of Acts. In the last few years a sum has been included in this Estimate each year for the preparation of a textbook on local government law. Surely the time has arrived when that textbook should be in the hands of local officials and others anxious to work within the law to get certain work carried out. The publication of that text-book is long overdue. It should be in the hands of all local officials at the earliest possible moment. It is not within the last 12 months alone that this has been pointed out; it has been brought up over the last few years. I appeal to the Minister to look into this point and see that something is done about it.
Another item of vital importance in every rural area, as well as in cities and towns, is provision for fire-fighting. As the Minister's predecessor mentioned in his time, it is most important that local authorities should treat this question with the seriousness it deserves. It is only on rare occasions that we have disastrous fires, but local authorities should be told, through the Minister, that preparation to meet any such event is a matter of urgency. My colleague, Deputy Tom Kyne, raised this matter here by a parliamentary question, drawing attention to the absence of protection in hotels in case of fire. We were given to understand in reply to the question that it was a matter for local authorities. Now, if so, it also must be a matter for the Minister and he should draw the attention of local authorities to the fact that where hotels have not proper facilities available in case of fire the lives of their guests are not safe and proper precautions should be taken. The Minister should ask local authorities to insist that all hotels within their jurisdiction provide any necessary equipment for this purpose.
We now come to another part of the Minister's statement in introducing this Estimate, the part dealing with housing in the Cork Borough area. The Minister stated that less than 10 per cent. of the programme was completed by March 1951, that is, a total of 332 houses; yet he stated that he was quite satisfied with the progress since his period of office began, because up to the 31st May, 1952, 644 houses were completed. Of course, to commence with, if we are to take into consideration the number of houses completed by the 31st May, we must assume that those 644 were constructed, not in 12 months but in a period of 14 months. He also mentioned that there are 495 houses in course of construction or in progress. The view I get of the Minister's statement is that he is satisfied with the progress made by the housing authority in Cork City. I can tell the Minister that generally the people are not satisfied with the progress. Not being a member of that local authority, I have no desire whatsoever to try to place responsibility on the members of the corporation if the responsibility is not theirs. I cannot say whether the members of the local authority, have pulled their weight or not and therefore I do not wish to criticise their actions.
While, according to the Minister's statement, very little satisfaction was being shown in the Cork Borough area up to the time of his advent to office, it is well to remember that his predecessor, in 1948, was also faced with a grave and difficult problem in Cork Borough area in the matter of housing.
A member of the Minister's Party, who is as interested in the housing problem in Cork City as any Deputy, went so far as to state in July, 1948, when we were discussing the Estimate for Local Government, that there was no site available in Cork City on which to build houses at that time. He stated, I believe correctly, that they were preparing a site at Ballyphehane, with a view to building on it, but he mentioned that, unfortunately, it was being held up for this sanction and that sanction. He clearly stated, as can be seen from the Dáil Debates of July, 1948, that no blame could be placed on the local officials concerned because it was the withholding of sanction prior to 1948 that held up building in Cork City.
I have no intention of discussing the merits or demerits of the case so far as the members of the corporation are concerned, but we cannot say that satisfactory progress is being made in the building of houses in Cork City.
A woman told me a week or two ago that she was pleased, after being ten long years on a waiting list, that she was getting a house. That woman has four children, including a boy of ten, and they were all living in one room. That woman has succeeded in getting her house after ten years, but what of the large number of families in that city who are still waiting? Some of them are giving up hope of getting a house. Instead of being satisfied with the progress in housing in Cork City, we should devote every ounce of energy to building houses for those who require them there.
We know of the long waiting list in the offices of the Cork Corporation. I appreciate that for the members who represent Cork City and the members of the corporation, the problem is much greater than it is for those outside the city, because they have to meet day-to-day complaints of prospective tenants and their repeated pleas for housing.
We need in Cork City in any year at least twice the number of houses mentioned by the Minister. In rural areas, facing much graver difficulties in the matter of sites and other items, we are showing much better results. The necessity to speed up the building of houses in the Cork Borough area should not be overlooked. While the Minister, naturally, is satisfied that progresss is being made and while we are all pleased to see houses being built, it must be admitted that much greater progress is required in this important feature of the lives of people in rural Ireland.
We should relate this matter to the views expressed by members of this House a few years back. Thanks be to God, the prophecy of a prominent member of this House, in 1948, that he was prepared to bet that when his successor retired from office there would be as many homeless as there were then, has been proved, in many respects, in rural areas, completely incorrect. The views expressed by Deputy MacEntee, in July, 1948, have proved incorrect so far as we are concerned in rural areas. We can take pride in the fact that the work done by the inter-Party Government, particularly by the Labour Minister for Local Government, has given hope to those who for so many years were living in tenements and in slumland, people who almost despaired of getting a home. We want a continuation of that policy. Within the last 12 months, as many Deputies have mentioned, delays have been noticeable in building. That should not be allowed to continue. Housing should continue at full swing and we should aim at a higher target each year than an average of 7,000.
People, both in city and country areas, are faced with another great problem. In reply to parliamentary questions, both the Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Finance said that they have no direct connection with this matter. It was then raised with managers of local authorities, who said it was not their responsibility. I am referring to the increase in rates as a result of improvements to premises. According to the terms of their employment, rate collectors must submit reports when city or rural dwellers, who wish to keep their premises in a decent condition, carry out some repairs. The result of the reports is that there is an immediate rise in the rates. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for Local Government have informed us that the question is outside their jurisdiction, and the same holds good for managers of local authorities. Surely somebody must accept responsibility, and the Minister for Local Government should clarify the position.
It has been brought to my notice that valuations have been increased even when no improvements have been carried out. People have to provide money for the rates at all costs, and I consider it very unfair that they should be subjected to a repetition of the rack renting system carried out by the landlords in bygone years. The rates are increased if people improve their premises. I believe the reverse should be the case, and that a rebate of rates should be allowed to them to compensate them for carrying out improvements. We are aware that this is a matter which cannot be remedied immediately, but I would suggest to the Minister that he should at least tell us with whom the responsibility lies. I assure him that the members of the local authorities are determined to follow up this matter until they can pin the responsibility on somebody.
As I stated last night, our housing problems, from start to finish, are tied up with this question of finance. Local authorities are saddled with a heavy burden by allocating out of the rates a certain amount of money to meet housing costs. It would be well, even at this late stage, if the Minister investigated a minority report submitted a few years back, which suggested that money for housing and national development generally should be free of interest. We should reach the stage when it would not be necessary for any member of any Party in this Assembly to draw attention to increased interest rates on loans for these important matters. This problem will have to be faced eventually; the sooner we tackle it the better, both for the central Government and for the local administration.
I now wish to draw attention to another important matter of direct concern to local authorities. I am sorry to say that it is again necessary for me to repeat the complaint about the delay in giving sanction to local authorities to commence water and sewerage schemes. Time and time again members of this House have had to draw attention to the fact that, in their own particular areas, local authorities have had to wait for long periods before they could get sanction from the Department to carry out these important schemes. It is very often our experience when we inquire at local authority offices about certain water and sewerage schemes to find that the schemes have been sent up to the Department for approval. After a while, we learn that a reply has come back suggesting certain changes and improvements. Local authority engineering staff must then examine the scheme again and carry out suggested improvements.
The project is then sent back to the Department, and after another time lag it is sent to the local authority office again with more suggestions. What is the point in our local authorities paying engineers and qualified architects? The Minister and his Department seem to have adopted an extraordinary attitude towards these professional men. In my view, it is totally unjust that a Department of State should keep a scheme going back and forth between itself and a local authority office recommending trivial changes the meanwhile. Each one of these trivial improvements delays a scheme by at least a period of three to six months. We would like the examination of these schemes to be expedited. This delay has not been created since the present Minister took office. It is one that has been in existence for a long period, and it has been discussed on all sides of the House, year after year. We consider that we have a right to draw attention to the fact. Local authorities are of primary importance to the Department of Local Government, and the sooner the system of sending schemes back and forth, for trivial improvements, is abolished the better.
A few years ago members of the Minister's Party drew attention to the fact that the committee set up to investigate piped water supplies had been abolished. I could not say if the Minister himself mentioned that fact. Perhaps the members of his Party considered they were justified in so doing. I do not know what the Minister's intentions are in connection with this project. In my view we have too many of these committees; we have too many of these commissions investigating matters. The reports—if they are good ones—of these commissions will probably not be put into operation for 50 years.
We have our difficulties in the local authorities when we discuss questions relating to piped water supplies and public pumps. If we can get over our immediate problems, which are of greater concern to us than a general report dealing with piped water supplies all over the country, it would be much more advantageous and beneficial to the people concerned. It would be much better than a report from any committee that may be called in the future to examine and report.
I can appreciate that financial difficulties are the greatest problems in connection with the provision of public pumps. Local authorities are assisted, through the Local Loans Fund, to provide public pumps, but I should like to ask the Minister to help the local authorities to a greater extent in connection with the provision of money for public pumps. All of us who are trying to do our best in the administrative areas in which we work know that it costs an average of £220 to £230 to bore and sink public pumps. Naturally that involves a large amount of money, having regard to the necessity for providing hundreds of pumps throughout a particular administrative area. It would be of great importance were the Minister to come to the assistance of the local authority to a greater degree than at present in helping to have this matter attended to. Such assistance would automatically assist local authorities from the point of view of their own finances.
There are a few other matters upon which I wish to touch briefly. Unlike some other Deputies who find themselves in opposition, I am not shouting for increased grants for this, that and the other thing. We ought to realise the responsibilities and the difficulties which confront any Minister or any Government. It should be possible, even in the immediate future, to provide local authorities with increased grants. Even where loans are available, grants should be given to local authorities in connection with such matters, matters which are of vital importance to small towns and villages, as the provision of public conveniences. Money seems to be the difficulty there. If we are to make any advancement in regard to local government, if we are to give facilities and amenities to local authorities which they, in turn, will pass on to the various areas under their charge, it would be well if we could devise some means of coming to the aid of these local authorities. In that way we would improve the standards throughout the country.
There is another matter of great importance, a matter which has a direct bearing on administration in Cork County. I believe this equally affects other counties on the sea coast.
The Cork County Council considered the necessity of employing life guards at their seaside resorts. After all, not a year passes and not a summer leaves us without there being an account in the local papers about some life having been lost in an unfortunate bathing accident. Cork County Council took cognisance of that position even though the provision of life guards would mean an extra burden on their financial resources. They considered it essential to employ these qualified life guards. A grant towards this important work would not mean a very large amount of money. It can hardly be said that such people will be needed in the Midlands nor can it be said that the number of life guards who may be employed will be large. I, therefore, consider that it would be a great help to local authorities if the central authority came to their aid by giving a grant each year towards this important work.
I know that other Deputies—especially Deputy Corry—are anxious to participate in this debate. I will not keep them much longer.