I second the motion. I think Deputy Flanagan is to be congratulated on bringing it forward. He is asking that the Government grant should be increased by a substantial amount, namely 50 per cent. I am satisfied that such a substantial increase in the Government grant would enable the municipalities to build houses and let them at reasonable rents. If the Government give this extra grant, the Dublin municipality can reduce the high rents that they are at present forced to charge for new houses especially. The new houses, of course, cost a good deal more than some of the older houses, which the corporation own. Deputy Flanagan has pointed out that the fact that a reasonable rent is not charged, or at any rate what the new tenant would regard as a reasonable rent, has caused grave dissatisfaction amongst the people who are called upon to pay rents which they think are not in keeping with their incomes. In some cases, in order to pay these high rents, families have to go without some of the necessaries of life which they would ordinarily use. Organisations especially in Dublin have put forward suggestions of what they consider fair rents based on so much per room — say 5/- per room or 15/-for a three-roomed cottage. These organisations have a good following of people who think that 15/- for a three-roomed flat or a three-roomed cottage is a reasonable offer. I too think it is a reasonable offer. Deputy Flanagan also suggests that there should be an extension of the period for the repayment of the loan by local authorities. I agree with him although it does mean that the ratepayers have to pay interest for a much longer period. The motion is in every way worthy of the Minister's consideration.
The problem of housing in Dublin City at present is a very serious one. It was mentioned last week that we have now 6,000 or 7,000 young married people, commonly called newly-weds, who are on our housing lists. They have been waiting for the last five years and they are no nearer to getting a house now than they were five years ago. I know cases in the City of Dublin where a mother occupying a working-class house, has made room in her three-roomed cottage for her married son or daughter. Families are now coming along and these people are imploring us to take them out of the overcrowded conditions under which they have to live. I have put it to the Minister that something should be done to increase further the output of houses especially in the City of Dublin. We have an average output of about 2,500 houses per year. I would say that that number of old houses are going into disrepair annually so that the problem is not being eased in any way. I would ask the Minister to give a greater proportion of Government money towards the solution of this problem.
I want to say that the Dublin Corporation or the Dublin ratepayer is not under any compliment to the Minister or to anybody else. The Dublin ratepayer has already by raising money through the corporation with the backing of the Government, made a fair contribution towards the solution of the housing difficulty. We are only asking the Government now because it is the Government's job, to come along and give us the necessary encouragement. We have a five years' residence qualification in the City of Dublin before a family can be housed. If a young couple are settled in Dublin for five years they can come to the corporation and ask for housing accommodation. We are anxious to facilitate them even though they originally came from the country. They are citizens of the Republic and we are anxious to help them but we are not getting the encouragement we should get.
If we could get a bigger grant from the Government we perhaps could increase the number of houses which are provided annually from 2,500 to, say, 5,000, and we would be able to give those young people who are living in overcrowded houses with their relatives a house for themselves. I have been in this House since the Dáil was first set up, and I want to say that each Government in succession has done a fair share to solve this problem. It is not their fault that people are still living under overcrowded conditions. I know of cases where there are two families in one room. I know cases where mothers have brought young married sons and daughters into their own single rooms and have given them a part of that room. Since this State was established, all Governments have done reasonably well, but I think they have got to do more and so has the local authority, if this problem is to be ever solved.
I do not want to exaggerate, but I think I can say that every 500 yards I go in the City of Dublin I am stopped by young people, who ask me what I can do to solve their housing problems. Three times within the last hour I was called out of this House, and each time I met a young couple who asked me what I could do to get them a flat or a cottage. They are all willing to pay a fair rent. The Minister may recall that, about a week ago, I tried to enlist his assistance to get some information from the corporation in regard to three evictions that had taken place. These three evictions took place from a building called the White House, in Finglas, in which three young married men were accommodated. The house was apparently required for some other purpose. It may be of interest to Deputy Flanagan to know that one of these young couples came from his constituency of Laois-Offaly. The three families were evicted and for two or three nights had to sleep out in the open. I do not know what has happened them since, but I failed to get anything done for them in the Dáil. My object in questioning the Minister was to find out what the corporation proposed to do with the house.
I congratulate Deputy Flanagan on putting down this motion. If the Government grant were increased by 50 per cent., as the Deputy suggests, I think that considerable progress could be made by local authorities in providing more houses for people of the type to whom I refer. He says that there is great dissatisfaction at the fixing of reasonable rent.
I have already mentioned that organ-isations representing tenants have suggested that 5/- is a reasonable rent for a room, 10/- for a two-roomed flat and 15/- for a three-roomed flat or three-roomed cottage. Deputy Flanagan has gone into that, and he asks for an extension of the period of loan repayment for local authorities for housing schemes completed by the 1st of January, 1951, so as to enable those authorities to let the houses at a rent which the tenants will be able to pay.
It may be of interest to know that people in their anxious desire to get out of some of the hovels in which they are living at present are prepared to accept the tenancy of a house at a rent which they reasonably cannot afford to pay without inflicting some hardship on their families. I would ask the Minister favourably to consider the special point so far as Dublin is concerned of giving increased grants, based upon the cost of house building at the present moment. If the Government would do that, it would ease a little the burden which the Dublin ratepayers are carrying. The Minister will reply that I want to ease the burden on the ratepayers and that I do not want to put it on the taxpayers. My answer is that Dublin at the moment is composed of people from the whole of the Twenty-Six Counties. When a person is resident for five years in Dublin, the corporation makes no distinction. We do all we can to provide decent housing accommodation for the people.
The trouble, I fear, is that many members of the Dáil, I mean apart from the Dublin Deputies, have no idea of the extent of the housing activities of the Dublin Corporation. They have never gone out to see the 4,000 or 5,000 houses that we have built in Ballyfermot, Finglas and other places where magnificient new towns are growing up. The houses that we are putting up would do credit to any country in the world and we are trying to let them at reasonable rents. One of the results of that activity is that the tenants have heavy charges to bear in the way of bus fares. They went out to those areas because they did not want to have their children in the tenement areas. We are taking the people out of the old houses in the city and are sending them out to Coolock, Finglas and Ballyfermot. That means an extra charge on each family of 1/- a day for bus fares, or 7/- a week. It is equivalent to a rent in itself. When the housing scheme at Coolock is completed the bus fare for the new tenants will be 6d. for a single journey. That will be a very heavy charge for working-class people. The schemes there and at St. Ann's are expected to be completed in a year or two. If a member of a family in one of those areas has to make a couple of journeys to the city it will mean an extra charge of 2/- a day. In view of that, I think we might change the words "bus fare" to the word "rent."
That is one of our problems. We would be very glad if the Government would assist us. I am afraid the time will come when we will have to ask, so far as these new housing areas are concerned, to have a limit put on bus fares. Otherwise, the people will not be able to pay them. I met a woman this morning who told me that it was costing her 1/- per day to send her children by bus to George's Hill school. In that situation, and in order to meet these bus charges, those families have to do without something in their homes.
I think the Minister should do something to see that the rents are not extravagant. He can do that by giving the municipality increased grants. We are anxious to give some benefit to the people who are looking for houses. I congratulate Deputy Flanagan on bringing forward this motion. It is one that is near the hearts of all of us who are members of a local authority.