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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Mar 1953

Vol. 136 No. 14

Committee on Finance. - Vote 40—Primary Education.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £167,300 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1953, for Primary Education, including National School Teachers' Superannuation and a Grant-in-Aid, etc.

The main item in this Supplementary Estimate is the provision of £130,000 under the new sub-head DDto pay the first instalment of the ex gratiapayments in the nature of lump sums which it has been decided to make to pensioned national teachers who retired before 1st January, 1950. National teachers retiring on or after that date are entitled to lump sums under the National School Teachers' Superannuation (Amendment) Scheme. 1950, viz., 1/30th of pensionable salary for each year of pensionable service, up to a maximum of 45/30ths. It is now proposed to amend the superannuation schemes further so as to allow of payments in the nature of lump sums to those on pension on 1st January, 1950, calculated as follows:—

(a) 1/30th of average annual salary for each completed year of pensionable service rendered between 1st January, 1935, and 31st December, 1949, inclusive, and

(b) 1/100th of average annual salary for each other completed year of pensionable service rendered between 1st January, 1905, and 31st December, 1949, inclusive.

Payment will be made in three equal annual instalments, except where the total amount payable does not exceed £50, when it will be paid in one sum. The total cost is estimated at £350,000. The amount now provided—£130,000— covers payment in full of the sums under £50 at an estimated cost of £20,000, together with one-third of the balance of £330,000, viz., £110,000. The necessary preliminary work is well advanced and it is hoped to make the first payment before the end of the month.

An extra £20,000 is needed under sub-head D to meet the ordinary pensions, gratuities, etc., under the superannuation schemes. It has turned out that the estimate of the amount required for the current financial year was too tightly drawn.

An additional £8,500 is required for preparatory colleges. Of this, about £4,000 is attributable to increases in the remuneration of the professorial staffs, which were granted after the Estimate for the current financial year had been prepared. The balance is due to increases in the cost of board and of books and other requisites.

An extra £3,000 is required for van and boat services. The grant for Protestant van services has been increased by £600 to £4,800. A new bus service was started last autumn for the conveyance of children from the Finglas district to schools in the city (Gardiner Street Convent for girls and infant boys and St. Joseph's, East Wall for boys) pending the provision of schools in Finglas. This service will cost about £600 in the current financial year. The balance of the additional sum required is attributable to an increase in the cost of existing services.

An extra £3,000 is needed for grants towards the cost of heating and cleaning national schools. Broadly speaking, the State recoups one-half of the amount spent locally, and it looks as if the provision of £63,000 for the current financial year will be about £3,000 short.

Under sub-head B, Examinations, an additional £1,800 is required to meet the cost of increases in the payments to superintendents, assistant superintendents, oral examiners, etc., given after the Estimate for this year was prepared. There has also been an increase in the number of candidates sitting for the examinations.

The extra money for training colleges is needed to meet an increase in the grants to two colleges.

The Minister told us that a sum of £600 was necessary for a new innovation—a bus service for school children in Finglas this year. I am interested in bus services for school children principally in the Gaeltacht areas where schools have been closed as a result of the falling population there. In cases where the schools have been closed children may find themselves having to travel four five, or sometimes six miles from the far end of an area. It can be argued that that would affect only a few families and that there might be only a few families living at such a distance from the school. It is not the fault of the parents when a school is closed. When a school is closed, provision for transport of the children should be made, at least from the far end of the area, particularly in the Gaeltachtareas. Some schools have been closed in my constituency in the Gaeltacht areas within the last 12 months. I think that is a mistake. I know the regulations are there and that when the average drops below a certain figure it is deemed advisable to close the school. Might I point out to the Minister—I have done so on a previous occasion—that in most cases the school is regarded as a local centre and closing the school goes a long way towards completely depopulating the area the school served? Even though the number of children attending falls below the number specified—I think it is 15—it is a fatal mistake to close the school. I would ask the Minister to revise that system completely.

The Deputy is getting away from sub-head C (3) which deals with transport services.

I think the subject I am speaking on is complementary. Transport would not be needed if the school were not closed. It is the closing that raises the problem of the transport of children in practically all cases. The difference between the cost of transport and the cost of keeping the school open would not be very great. I consider it is a serious and tragic blunder to close the school in a case like that.

I welcome the provision that the Minister has made for teachers who retired prior to 1950. I think all sides of the House agree that they have been placed at a great disadvantage compared to their brethren who retired and received better benefits after that period. It is a step in the right direction, although they will not receive the full amount they look for. Under the circumstances, and as we understand that the Budget outlook is rather grim at the moment, probably the Minister has made the best provision possible.

On sub-head C (6), covering £3,000 extra cost of heating schools and cleansing out-offices, I am interested in the heating part, as I have already raised this question offuel on a previous Supplementary Estimate this evening. I want to inquire from the Minister for Education whether the heating systems provided in the schools are maintained through the use of native fuel or through the importation of oil or coal. I want it to be clear that I oppose at all times the use of foreign fuel in any State institution. I would like the Minister to elaborate a little further for me whether this £3,000 has been devoted to the purchase of native fuel or not. The total sum involved is £66,000—that is the revised Estimate for this service—and whatever portion of that goes to the fuel for heating would give considerable employment on our bogs. I would urge on the Minister—perhaps I am pressing an open door—to ensure that native fuel is used at all times in the schools under his control and in any other institutions for which he may have responsibility.

Can the Minister give the details of the manner in which he proposes to pay the other instalments he intends to give to these retired teachers? Is it a protracted period or is it within 12 months that the amount arranged is to be paid?

The provision of the £600 for transport from Finglas to the City of Dublin is altogether a different matter to that which is raised by Deputy Blowick—which I do not think concerns this Estimate at all. I would like to assure the Deputy that it is only as a last resort a rural school is closed. I am most anxious to keep in operation every rural school but, unfortunately, conditions arise sometimes in which that is impossible. Wherever it is necessary and feasible to provide transport when a school is closed, that transport is provided. I would be very interested to get from Deputy Blowick information about any children who have to walk four miles to school. I think it must be a very unusual case when that happens, and I doubt very much if it happens at all.

I have one case ofwhich I can give the Minister particulars.

Of course, when Deputy Blowick speaks about it not being the parents' fault, I feel it might be Deputy Blowick's fault in that constituency.

Not guilty.

In reply to Deputy Collins, we propose to pay the first instalment within a month, completing all payments of under £50. Twelve months from that date, I assume we will be paying the next instalment, and in the third year we will make the final payment.

It is difficult to answer Deputy McQuillan. All schools are not in turf-producing areas and the transport of turf to certain schools might make the cost of heating prohibitive.

Coal has to be transported from America.

At a much lesser cost, possibly.

Whatever about the relative merits of the transport of turf and coal, I am entirely in favour of utilising turf where possible; but in most of the older schools the fireplaces and chimneys are such that turf is pretty useless. Even coal is pretty poor, and until we can make a change in all these fireplaces we will find it impossible to make a proper heating system available to the children.

My Department was recently pressed very strongly by the local committee to provide an oil burning heater, not in a primary school but in a vocational school in the heart of the bog area. We got into communication with Bord na Móna whose engineers have devised a very satisfactory heating system, which is just as effective as an oil burning system, which costs 50 per cent. less and which involves very little trouble in handling. So far as we can utilise the inventions of the Bord na Móna engineers in the heating of schools in the future, we will do so.

Question put and agreed to.
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