It seems to me that the method by which the Irish language was taught in the good days of the Gaelic League was, relatively speaking, much more satisfactory than the method which is being generally used in the schools to-day, and I have often made the plea here that the teaching of Irish or the imparting of Irish to non-Irish speakers ought to be made much more attractive. The Gaelic League made it attractive inasmuch as the learning of the language was combined and associated with social activities, usually in the form of singing and the form of dancing especially. I venture to remark that many of the older people in this country and even in this House who have a speaking knowledge of the language got their fluency from Gaelic League activities in their Gaelic League days.
My personal belief is that there is too much inferiority complex, so far as the speaking of the language is concerned, and too much reprimand from people who have the language fluently, which deters young people, and especially adolescents, from using even the small amount they have. I have met people who, if I said "An tAire Oideachas" would come right back at me with "An tAire Oideachais". I do not think that in the speaking of the language, we ought to pay severe attention—I stress the word "severe"—to grammar and the finer technical points, because any of us who have met a Dutchman or a German during his initial period in this country knows that he makes outlandish mistakes. Tenses, moods and everything else are wrong, but he has words and conveys an idea. He knows how to ask for a meal, how to ask what town he is in and which is the road to such-and-such a place. He has not got the righttense or the right case, but one finds after months of practice that he has the English language, as we know it, pretty fluently. That is the view taken by many of the older Irish scholars and in this connection I might be permitted to quote An Fear Mór who is of the opinion that, if we laid much more stress on conveying an idea than on being absolutely correct grammatically, the Irish language would progress much better than it is progressing at present.
I said when speaking here last Wednesday that so long as we regarded Irish as a strict subject, as a subject to be taught strictly in the schools, we could not have progress, because it turns many of the students against the language. It is my opinion, too, that the teaching of ordinary subjects in schools through the medium of the Irish language is not good either for the Irish language or for the general education of the children. One of my constituents remarked over the week-end, speaking of the teaching of subjects through the medium of the Irish language, that his children—I will not say that they are stupid children—would probably grow up to be illiterate in two languages.
For that reason, I want to make one suggestion in answer to the Minister's invitation with regard to giving a half-day per week to a teacher to do what he liked with for the general well-being of the students. I suggest that on some of those half-days throughout the year, plays in Irish be produced. That would serve a very useful purpose so far as the language is concerned. At present there is terrific competition with the language from the cinema and the radio and every song or play or film, apart from some portions of the Radio Éireann programmes, is in English. That is something the Minister cannot compete against in his effort to revive the language and it is something the students cannot compete against.
It does not seem as if we can produce films in this country through the medium of the Irish language so we must of necessity look at and listen to British and American films, and the new words and phrases being picked up by the children of to-day are solelyin the English language. I do not know how it can be done, but I wonder— I think it is possible—if, through the Department, through the school managers, certainly through the teaching orders and, above all, through the vocational education schools, there could be established holiday camps for the holiday period where nothing but the Irish language would be spoken. That would serve two useful purposes— the purpose of giving a good holiday, a cheap holiday and a beneficial holiday to students from the cities and large towns and also the purpose of providing practice for students in the Irish language without the fear of failing in an examination or a reprimand from a teacher. I have often quoted here the success that has attended the efforts of the County Wexford Vocational Education Committee in relation to Coláiste Carman. Nobody can call it a school; neither could one call it a Butlin's Holiday Camp, but in my opinion, and I might say in my experience, anybody who has attended there for two weeks or a month, whether boy or girl, has found that he or she will learn much more about the Irish language than they ever did for a period of, say, two or three years in either a secondary or a primary school.
I do not believe that the Irish language should be a subject in the first year of any child's education. I do not believe it should be a subject even in the second, third, or fourth year. I believe ordinary children, unless the parents have Irish or unless they are in Gaeltacht districts, should not be introduced to Irish as a subject in the schools until they are at least nine or ten years of age. It gives these young children enough to do to add two and two, to multiply three by four or to spell without the confusion of two languages, when the first words they ever learned were in the English language and when the first directions they were ever given were in the English language. Therefore it is, in my view, confusing to those children to have to try to think out and express their first thoughts with half Irish and half English. I know one young boy at least in my home town who, at seven years of age, even though he speaksEnglish quite well for his years, can only write his name in Irish. That may be desirable; but he is able to write his name only in Irish because he has been taught most or all of the subjects in the school through the medium of Irish. When he is outside he knows no other language but English.
These, as far as the Irish language is concerned, are my comments. I am afraid I have not been very helpful to the Minister. The only reason I make these observations is in an effort to tease out the big problem which the Minister has, which Ministers for Education have had in the past and will have for many, many years to come. I would merely close my remarks on the Irish language by repeating what I said in the first instance: as long as we regard Irish as a subject which must be passed in examinations, as long as there is reprimand, as long as there is punishment —I will not say physical punishment— for not having the Irish language, we can never expect the young children and the boys and girls up to 18 years to have any love for the language. The only way we can have Irish revived is by trying to get the students and the young boys and girls of this country to attain a love for it.
I would like to support the appeal that has been made here by Alderman Byrne and, I think, Alderman Butler and Deputy Palmer for increases in the capitation grants to secondary schools. It is a big reflection on past Governments to say that there has been no appreciable change as far as I know since 1921. The burden has been greater on some schools than on others. I do not think anybody would take exception if I mentioned in particular the Christian Brothers who do not cater for a particular section but whose classes are composed in the main of boys who could not be regarded as being really wealthy and who could not be regarded as students who could afford to pay large fees. As a matter of fact, many of us know that a big number of students—to mention one type of school—in the Christian Brothers' secondary schools receivetheir entire secondary education from about the age of 13 or 14 up to the age of 18 years completely free. I think some assistance should be afforded to those secondary schools and if the Minister will bear in mind the type of school of which I have given an example, I feel he will be inclined to consider favourably an increase in the capitation grants.
There is another suggestion I would like to give to the Minister for what it is worth. There is talk of economy now in the general administration of the Civil Service and I would suggest that the intermediate and leaving certificate examinations could be used as means of entry into the Civil Service. In the first place, it is most annoying for students, whether boys or girls, at the age of 14 or 15 in the case of the intermediate certificate and at the age of 18 years or so in the case of the leaving certificate to say that in one year they must do the intermediate or leaving certificate examination and if they want to enter the Civil Service they have to do a similar examination a month, two or three months later.
This situation is peculiar inasmuch as the examination for a clerical officer and writing assistant in the Civil Service is of the same standard as the intermediate certificate. Therefore, I would suggest that if the Minister wants to achieve economy for the Minister for Finance in that respect, he could use the intermediate certificate as a means of entry into the Civil Service for, say, writers, and for clerical officers; similarly the leaving certificate could be utilised in the same fashion for entry into the Civil Service for a post such as junior executive officer.
I do not know whether it is a long tradition or recent practice, that is the custom in examinations of coupling history and geography together. I cannot imagine how these two subjects got together. If a young student is reasonably good in history, it is possible for him—and it has often happened—to fail in that subject that is described as history and geography. In the intermediate certificate examination I think that the maximum marksfor geography are 150 and those for history 250—it may be vice versa—but if a student secures good marks in history and passes on the basis of the maximum being 250, it is quite possible for him, if he does not do well or does badly in geography, to fail both in history and geography. I can see some connection between history and geography but I would submit that a big portion of geography could very well be associated with mathematics rather than history. History is a subject which depends more on memory than anything else, the retention of dates, different occurrences and that sort of thing. The Minister may disagree but that is the way I learned history. In any case, I think the Minister will agree with me that there is not a great connection between history and geography. Why one should hang on the other for the purpose of passing the collective subject I cannot imagine.