I move that the Supplementary Estimate be referred back for reconsideration. I want to protest against the manner in which the affairs are carried out here. Some months ago, I tabled a motion to refer this Estimate back. Even though a considerable amount of the time of the House was wasted on very small and trifling matters, this Estimate was steamrolled through with the Estimate for the Department of Finance.
Having regard to the connections between the Government Party and the major Opposition Party with University College, Dublin, I should have thought that in their own interests and in the interests of the university, and of this House, they would have made quite sure that any matter affecting the university was fully discussed and dealt with here.
This Supplementary Estimate is for a sum of nearly a quarter of a million pounds—£200,000.
The original Estimate was passed through this House with the Estimates for the Department of Finance without any explanation or discussion, good, bad or indifferent. I think that having regard to the fact that the presentTaoiseach is Chancellor of the University, and that the ex-Minister for Finance, now the shadow Minister for Finance, is on the staff of University College, Dublin, this is a matter that should have been very carefully and seriously discussed by this House. Instead of that, we had not time to discuss an important matter of this kind, while we had plenty of time to waste in discussing matters that were of little or no importance.
Now we have a Supplementary Estimate for University College, Dublin, to enable it to buy certain premises. So far as I understand it, the university entered into that commitment without coming to this House or without getting any authorisation from this House to enter into that commitment. We had a statement from the acting-Minister for Finance in the House on the 25th November, as reported in column 977 of the Official Debates, in which, referring to Deputy McGilligan, he said:-
"He did not tell us, however, that if they were going to build the university it would cost £12,000,000."
I believe that if we are going to establish an elaborate university, it should not be tagged on to the present City of Dublin, which is already top-heavy in relation to the rest of the country. If we are going to spend £12,000,000, £6,000,000, or any such considerable sum in this way we should take that university outside the City of Dublin.
The authorities of the National University or of University College, Dublin, have a peculiar idea about university education. They feel that university education should be confined to the classics, to literature and the arts and they sort of frown on any industrial or agricultural pursuit as being a waste of time in that university. I think that if we are going to establish, at the expense of the State, a large university and round it a large university town, that should be taken outside Dublin. The suggestion to build it at Stillorgan will only have the effect of making Dublin more top-heavy than it is already.
The Governing Body of University College, Dublin, had a meeting last March and at that meeting they decided that they would evict theagricultural faculty from University College, Dublin. They agreed in principle to a resolution deciding to hand over from the National University all control as regards agricultural science students, agricultural research and agricultural advisory services. Why they did that I do not know. I understand that in University College, Dublin, at the moment there are 72 first year agricultural students. I do not know how many second year agricultural students there are in University College, Dublin. But if they get rid of the 72 first year students and whatever second year, third year and fourth year students they may have, it will probably have the effect of making more room for other people in the university. Personally, I think that the action of the governing body was a retrograde step. All over the world to-day the tendency is to bring agricultural education, agricultural research and agricultural advisory services into the universities and not to throw them out of the universities.
The proposal that has been accepted by the Governing Body of University College, Dublin, is, in effect, to hand over agricultural research and agricultural education to a semi-State organisation which will be known as an agricultural institute. The only justification that the college authorities can give for that is that we get some money from the American grant.
But we have had some experience of work done by the Department of Agriculture and if we hand over agricultural education and agricultural research to the Department of Agriculture, which in effect is what it means, we shall get nowhere. We know that the Department of Agriculture frowned and sneered at artificial insemination until the co-operative creameries down the country adopted it and put it into operation in spite of the Department of Agriculture. Now the Department of Agriculture are taking it up. I heard myself brass hats from the Department of Agriculture a few years ago speaking at University College, Dublin, and sneering at the question of soil surveys and soil analysis. Afterwards, when soil surveysand soil analysis were taken up by an individual in Limerick, a Mr. Spain, an agricultural instructor, and subsequently by the Sugar Company, the Department of Agriculture came in, late in the day, and agreed that there was something in soil surveys. They have now, I am glad to say, established Johnstown Castle, where they are taking a serious interest in soil surveys and soil analysis.
A few years ago the brass hats in the Department of Agriculture were sneering at this idea. Are we going to hand over agricultural education and agricultural research to the same people? These are the people to whom it is proposed we should hand it over; it is to these people that University College, Dublin, agreed to hand it over when they decided to evict the agricultural faculty from University College, Dublin, and hand that faculty over to an agricultural institute, half of the governors of which are to be nominated by the Minister for Agriculture, the director of which is to be nominated by the Minister for Agriculture and the remaining half of the governors are to be nominated (1) by the university colleges and (2) by the Minister for Agriculture, if there are not agricultural societies which he considers proper bodies for putting forward nominations.
It is a very serious matter for the agricultural community. It is a new departure in regard to agricultural education and agricultural research methods. It is something that has not happened in any other country in the world.
It is an extraordinary thing that in the year 1953 we should have University College, Dublin, coming to this House and asking for an extra grant. There is already over £500,000 to be provided for university colleges, and they are asking for an additional £200,000 in the same year in which they have decided at a meeting of their governing body to evict the agricultural faculty from their university. I think that it is an extraordinary thing that they should have the brazen effrontery to have this Estimate submitted to the House this year havingregard to the action they took last March.
Of course they want more money for their medical school. We have heard a great deal about the medical school lately. To my mind, it is doubtful whether it is worth our while to vote very considerable sums of money to University College, Dublin, or to any other university for the purpose of training doctors for export. I understand that it costs this State approximately £1,500 to turn out every doctor that we export from this country. In addition to that, according to the report of the American Medical Council, if we are to continue to pay this £1,500 to export every doctor, we must also provide that every second patient who dies in a hospital must be cut up by medical students.
