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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Feb 1955

Vol. 148 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - City and County Management (Amendment) Bill, 1954—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

First of all, I would like to thank Deputies for the manner in which they have received this Bill. It has been criticised, not for what is in it so much as what it is alleged it does not contain. Deputy Smith says it is merely a rehash of the Bill introduced by him last year, but I would like to remind Deputy Smith and the House that the Bill introduced early in 1954 did not contain Section 2 and Section 4 of the present Bill. I consider—and I respectfully suggest to the House—that Sections 2 and 4 are the emancipation of the local authorities.

Under Section 29 of the County Management Bill of 1940, local authorities could requisition county managers to do certain things, but unfortunately, as I was told on my tour of the country, these things were fait accompli before members of local authorities knew of them, and they had no method of finding out what the intentions of the county managers were, and, therefore, the section was useless. Now, under Section 2 of the present Bill, information may be sought in advance of the county managers on what they propose doing in the future, not only about a certain thing but about a series of matters, and if the local authority does not agree with the intentions of the county manager, then they may invoke Section 4 of the present Bill to compel or requisition the county manager to carry out their instructions. That, in my opinion, goes a long way to meet the requests which were made to me by the various local representatives whom I interviewed.

Section 4 simplifies the procedure whereby county managers may be requested to do certain things. A very cumbersome procedure was laid down in Section 29 of the County Management Act of 1940. As I have already explained in my opening speech and on the Second Stage of the Bill, such a resolution or motion required the signature of one-third of the members of the local authority. As proposed here, the simplified procedure merely requires the signature of three members of a local authority. The resolution also merely requires seven days' notice and it may be brought before an ordinary meeting of the local authority.

Criticism has been made here of the proposed estimates committee. I found that one of the complaints which I received was that local authorities were ignorant of the financial matters of their councils during the year. They knew nothing about the finances until the estimates were produced by the county manager at the end of the year. This section will enable local authorities to keep in touch during the entire year with the financial position of their councils. It is ridiculous to suggest that under the section the estimates committee will be required to sit down and prepare the estimates. They will do no such thing any more than a Minister prepares the estimates which he presents to this House. The estimates committee will have the assistance of the manager, the secretary, the accountant and all the clerical staff of the local authority. They will have that assistance just as a Minister has the assistance of the Civil Service in preparing estimates. They will require to meet no more often than they are meeting at present in some of these financial committees to which reference has been made in this House. The estimates committee is being set up to give the local authority an opportunity of keeping in touch with the financial situation of the council during the financial year.

We always had that in the Dublin Corporation.

I know, but you had no statutory power.

There is nothing new in the Bill.

There was no statutory power. That was just the position. You might find a county manager who did not want to give you that information—as you do find them —and we are merely trying to give to the rest of the country some of the unwritten privileges which Dublin Corporation has. I am ensuring that every council in Ireland will be given the same information which is now evidently given to Dublin Corporation by its city manager. I think it is a good thing to make it statutory and that is the only reason why I put it into the Bill.

Some Deputies have criticised my itinerary in the country in going around and meeting representatives of local authorities. I make no apology for it. Every solitary suggestion made to me by a majority of the representatives whom I met has been incorporated in the Bill without exception. I am prepared, between now and the Committee Stage, to accept and consider any amendments which may be put down to the Bill and I invite suggestions from the House just as I did from the local authorities when I was going around the country.

Again, an effort is being made to make political capital out of this, saying that the Government now accept the principle of county management. The Government's predecessor, the old Cumann na nGaedheal Party, introduced the first County Management Act into this House when they introduced the Cork City Management Act away back in 1929.

They kept it under their hat for a while.

Anything introduced in this House is not keeping it under the hat.

Afterwards.

They also introduced the City Management Bill for Dublin. The present Opposition, after some years in power and after seeing how these two Acts worked, introduced the City Management Act of 1940. The last inter-Party Government introduced a Bill amending it and the Opposition when in Government last introduced a further Bill. Now the present Government are introducing a Bill not to repeal the County Management Acts but to amend them as far as possible and that is the main purport of this Bill.

As regards the control of staff, I have received no request from any local authority that the individual members or the council as a whole should have or should exercise any control over the staff. They say that is a matter for the official end and for the county manager and with that I fully agree. It has been the principle since 1926 that officers be appointed by the Local Appointments Commission. We must consider what the position was in this country prior to the setting up of the Local Appointments Commission. There is no doubt whatever about it, as was said here, officers were then appointed on patronage and nothing else. Now as a result of the competitions held by the Local Appointments Commission the very best procurable officers are procured, be they professional or otherwise. Local government has gone a long way in that respect. I have heard no professional criticism of any officer appointed. I did hear of their being less yielding and less willing to bow to the requests of individual members of local authorities, but on the whole I found no criticism of them. I think it is right that young people should have an opportunity of competing for these various positions. I know that Dublin Corporation are anxious to confine the filling of vacancies to the corporation by promotion. That is very unfair.

I do not see why a border or boundary should be set around Dublin Corporation. The officials of every county should have the right to compete.

What about reward for service?

That is the system since 1926. Officials of every county in Ireland have an opportunity of competing for these vacancies in Dublin which are considered plums and I do not see why they should be confined to the corporation.

Look at all the Dublin men down the country.

Give them an opportunity to come back and compete for these appointments.

I stand for promotion for faithful service within the service.

Is that not setting up a boundary or a wall around Dublin Corporation? I would think it very unfair that officials of Cork County Council, Cork Corporation or from Galway should not have an opportunity of competing for these positions in the City of Dublin. It has been the procedure laid down since 1926. It is a most satisfactory one and one from which I do not want to depart.

I do not wish to go into the matter any further at this stage other than to say I welcome any suggestions that might be made for the amendment of the Bill. I am prepared to consider, and in many cases to leave to a free vote of the House, amendments which may be put down.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage fixed for Wednesday, 9th March, 1955.
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