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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 2 Jun 1955

Vol. 151 No. 5

Workmen's Compensation (Amendment) Bill, 1954—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Before I moved to report progress last evening I was dealing with what appear to be some defects in the existing code of workmen's compensation. I was dealing in particular with the position that faces a workman who, without any court award, was in receipt of weekly compensation in respect of injury that he met with arising out of and in the course of his employment. I said that it often happens that the employer and the insurance company, where the employer is insured, often pick what appears to them an opportune time to cut off that compensation. The workman then has recourse to the courts and if his compensation has been cut off shortly before the beginning of the long vacation, he is in a particularly vulnerable position from the point of view of having his claim settled by a tempting offer, often inadequate, from the insurance company.

I said last night that I thought that was a matter that the Minister possibly could not remedy, but, on giving it second thoughts, I feel, perhaps, there might be some method whereby such a man could have his claim brought before a court, say some kind of floating Circuit Court, during the long vacation. Otherwise, if his compensation is cut off, say early in July, that will not give him time to have his claim heard before the end of that particular term. The courts normally do not resume until well into October, therefore, giving him a very long period in which he has no weekly compensation to remunerate him for his loss of earning capacity. In urgent cases in different types of litigation, people who have to seek redress from the courts are given that facility and I think it might, in some manner, be extended to workmen whose compensation has been stopped at such an inopportune time.

There is one other aspect of that problem which again is a defect in the present system as it has evolved from legal decisions; that is, if the workman's compensation is cut off he usually goes to court for the purpose of having it restored or else of having whatever proper compensation the court considers fit awarded to him. Under the present legal position, if the court finds that the man is no longer totally incapacitated, the court then has to look to what earning capacity the workman has in his partially incapacitated state. But unless the court has actual evidence of what the earning capacity of the man is, it must adjourn the award of his partial compensation to see what work the man can actually do.

It usually happens, I think, that if a man is cut off from full compensation he has not in the meantime tried to work in his partially incapacitated state, and even though the court decides on the hearing of his case that he is no longer totally incapacitated and that he is partially incapacitated, it cannot give him a partial award until such evidence is forthcoming. That evidence cannot be got together by the workman until another period has elapsed, when he has tried his hand at other jobs. After he has succeeded in getting a job and earning some reduced wages, only then can the court assess his partial compensation.

There is, of course, a prejudice always against such a man and having been injured with a particular employer, a prospective employer is not anxious to take him on. Fortunately there is a section providing against any hardship in that respect, that is, Section 24, whereby the court, if by reason of his continuing disability, even though he has recovered somewhat, but still fails to find employment, can treat his partial incapacity as total and award him full compensation.

Last night I mentioned, too, that I was doubtful whether an appeal would lie to a superior court in the event of either the employer or the workman being aggrieved in respect of an award given under Section 8. Generally it is only on legal questions that appeals can be taken against workmen's compensation decisions in the Circuit Court. Possibly in the case where an award by a circuit judge is considered inadequate or excessive, the Supreme Court, which is the appellate tribunal in this case, would probably exercise its judicial discretion in setting that particular award right, but I would ask the Minister to ensure that there is some appellate jurisdiction in respect of that section.

Another aspect of the present code which urgently requires remedying is the award of medical fees. Under Section 73 of the 1934 Act that sum was fixed at a maximum of £5 to the doctor who treated that workman for his injury. I accept entirely that the principle of workmen's compensation is not compensation for pain or suffering or for any consequential loss, but compensation for loss of earning capacity. Nevertheless, nobody can tell me or convince me that a man who is seriously injured can adequately repay his medical adviser, his surgeon as the case may be, by a court awarding this paltry £5 under Section 73. It must happen that the workman's commitments are very much higher than that particular fee. Therefore, apart altogether from the rights of the medical profession to get their just fees, I think it is only fair to the workman that he should at least have the comfort and satisfaction of knowing that his medical adviser, his doctor or surgeon, is properly compensated and properly paid for whatever treatment is given.

I do not think anyone will accept that the £5 which at present is the maximum—and that is only given on application to the court by the doctor at the end of the year—is adequate. There are cases and cases will continually arise where not only ordinary medical treatment but a surgical operation is necessary. The insurance company or the employer are, under the present legislation, in no way bound to provide that treatment.

In practice it does not appear that in reference to their own liability the employer or the insurance company will undertake to pay whatever fees are due for such specialist treatment so long as there is no obligation on them to do that—so long as they are not bound by existing legislation to do so. It often happens that the workman, in relief of his own conscience, will make some attempt to pay out of his weekly or lump sum compensation something over and above that £5 to which the doctor may be entitled.

One other matter to which Deputy Kyne referred, and rightly referred, is the question of whether or not workmen's compensation insurance should be compulsory. I do not think there is any doubt that it should. The man who owns and drives a car continuously on the roads is obliged, under pain of fine or imprisonment, to insure that car. He is presumed to have an instrument of death under his control. Many employers, even employers in a small way, who own or occupy factories have instruments of death so long as they have inexperienced, and sometimes experienced, workers occupied around their machines. It would be false economy and, in some cases, actual exploitation of the workman, for employers to fail to insure employees. We all have knowledge of cases of severe hardship where people were severely injured, often maimed for life, and got no benefit because they were uninsured. In some such cases an employer might pay the workman a small sum, but in many cases a small employer is no mark because he has no money and he emigrates rather than submit to the execution of a court decree.

If anything requires to be compulsory in this country I think it is insurance of workers against injury, particularly in factories and on farms. With reference to the amendment put down by Deputy Dr. Ryan, I should like to say that even though we are discussing it now in the middle of 1955, the Bill is titled the Workmen's Compensation (Amendment) Bill, 1954. The Minister has said that one of his first acts on assuming office was to examine what was necessary for the relief of injured workmen and this Bill was produced as a result. The last Government did set up a committee to examine the whole problem of workmen's compensation and the Minister, even though he did not agree with the personnel of that committee, should have tackled the matter seriously at the beginning and there is no doubt that in the 12 months that have intervened that committee would have reported adequately and would have enabled the Minister to bring in a comprehensive measure. Even when the Bill had its First Reading he should have adjourned the Second Reading for three months, set up a committee, and have had their report for the Second Reading.

As I said at the outset, that is my main objection to this measure. We all agree that increases in compensation are necessary but, on the other hand, one must also consider the effect it will have elsewhere. Some suggested effects, made from this side of the House, were scorned by Government Deputies but there is no doubt that the increased weekly maximum compensation payments will put a big new onus on employers. There must be an increase in insurance rates and, therefore, it could happen that a man now able to employ four people will have to reduce that number to three in order to meet the increased insurance commitments. It is very likely that this increase will have such an effect, and much as we appreciate what the Minister has done for the employees, we have a corresponding obligation to insure against the imposition of additional hardship on employers.

On the question of the constitution of the suggested committee, I said last night that I thought it should be a mixed body of Oireachtas members and of outside interests. I would suggest that if possible the committee would be presided over by a Circuit Court judge because the Circuit Courts have most to do with awards under the existing legislation. I think the Minister would find very little difficulty in finding a chairman among the Circuit Court judges who would do justice to the work of this committee. I would also suggest that some of the lawyer members of the House should be put on the committee. I should like also that the industrial employers, the trade unions and the farmers represented in the House would have representatives on the committee. Outside interests, I suggest, should similarly find a place on this committee. I have little doubt that when this body would make its report the cleaning up and the tightening of the workmen's compensation code would at last have been achieved. I would appeal to the Minister that, having got this Bill on the Statute Book, he will not rest there but proceed with the greatest possible expedition to set up this committee and remedy the defects in the code, some of which I have referred to and the many more equally important flaws.

I should like to say at the outset that I feel particularly satisfied with the type of discussion we have had on this Workmen's Compensation (Amendment) Bill. I think Deputies, from all sides of the House, have spoken freely and sincerely on the different aspects of workmen's compensation and the different provisions of this Bill. With, I think, two exceptions, the debate could be regarded as being entirely non-political.

I indicated in my opening speech that I did not intend this Bill to correct the many defects that have been apparent for such a long time in the workmen's compensation code. My original idea—I might say my primary aim—was to come immediately to the aid of workmen injured in the course of their employment. I considered that the weekly allowances being paid were inadequate, that they should be stepped up, that there was no justification for a differentiation between a single and a married man. I considered also, as, of course, the Government did, that the lump sums being paid in the cases of fatal accidents were scandalously inadequate. I considered that the age of juvenile dependents should be raised from 15 to 16 years and that the waiting period in respect of the first three days also should be reduced. I think that on these points every single Deputy who has spoken has been in agreement with me.

As I said also in my opening speech, and Deputy Lynch mentioned it now, it is my intention to set up a committee that will deal with the whole code of workmen's compensation and will consider particularly whether or not workmen's compensation should be run as a State scheme.

I will admit that in respect of the composition of the committee of inquiry, I have changed my mind. Two years ago, I was of opinion that a Committee of the House would be a better type of committee to consider the question of workmen's compensation, but on reconsideration I decided that an outside body, representative of workers and employers, the legal and the medical professions would do a far better job. I hope that this committee will report to me in the shortest time possible.

Section 8 seems to be the only controversial section. Let me say at once that I am not one of those who want to steamroll any particular section or measure through this House if there are genuine and sincere opinions opposed to mine on any side of the House. I can see certain defects in regard to the operation of Section 8, but I do not say that these defects cannot be remedied on the Committee Stage, or that the difficulties which have been mentioned in the course of the debate are insuperable. At the same time, I am of opinion that some of the fears which certain Deputies expressed are not well founded. In any case, between now and the Committee Stage I will have Section 8 re-examined to see whether or not it can be amended to meet the viewpoints which have been expressed.

Deputy Dr. Ryan said that he was in entire agreement with sub-section (1) of Section 8 which gives an employee the right to seek redemption where there is permanent incapacity. The period within which an employee can make application to redeem is, under the terms of the Bill, six months. I will consider whether or not a solution can be found to meet the points expressed by extending that period to 12, 18 or 24 months. I can see the difficulty in respect of sub-section (3). I also undertake to have that sub-section re-examined to see if certain viewpoints which have been expressed can be met.

Many of the Deputies who raised objection to Section 8 did so on many assumptions. Some seemed to assume that our courts do not know their job, and that Section 8 will always be operated in favour of the worker. A number also assumed that the members of the medical profession hold totally opposite opinions on the condition of an injured man according as to whether they are appearing for the applicant or the defendant. I do not think we are going to have the spate of applicant or the defendant. I do not think we are going to have the spate of applications for redemptions under Section 8 that was mentioned by some Deputies, especially in view of the fact that the weekly payment, on the passing of this Bill, will be much more attractive than it is at present. I think that a worker who is permanently incapacitated will think twice before appealing for a redemption, especially when he knows that he will now be in receipt of £4 10s. a week.

Deputy Dr. Ryan also spoke about the relationship that should exist between workmen's compensation payments and social welfare benefits. I suppose he has a certain point there. He expressed his point of view pretty clearly, but unfortunately that was not the point of view he adopted when he was Minister for Social Welfare, nor do I think it was the attitude that was adopted by his predecessors who had responsibility for workmen's compensation. I am referring now to the various Ministers for Industry and Commerce down through the years. Their attitude was not that there should be any relationship between social welfare benefits and the rate of workmen's compensation. That has been the history of workmen's compensation during the last 30 or 40 years. Indeed, that goes back to the beginning of this century when there was no such thing as sickness benefit payments.

I want to say that the Government are not unmindful of the inadequacy of social welfare benefits as they stand at present. Deputies are aware that the Government have introduced legislation to increase the rate of benefit in respect of old age, blind pensions, widows' and orphans' and noncontributory pensions. I can also say that, in respect of other benefits, it is the stated policy of the Government to come to the aid of the recipients of sickness benefit, unemployment benefit and unemployment insurance and to provide for increases there as well.

Much of the opposition to this Bill has been on the question of cost. Those who dwelt mainly on the question of cost did not deal with the Bill in the detail which one would expect. It seemed to me there was an effort on the part of some Deputies and among them, strangely enough, two of my own colleagues for the constituency of Wexford, to try and stampede certain members of the House to vote against the Bill on the allegation that it was going to impose a particularly heavy burden on employers, industry generally and on the agricultural community.

You know it is.

I do not think that such is the fact. I think that Deputy Allen said last night that if this Bill became law, in the case of certain local authorities—I think he mentioned county councils—it would mean an increase in the rates of between 6d. and 1/- in the £. I do not know if Deputy Allen was speaking about the County Wexford, a county in which he takes a particular interest and of which he has a very detailed knowledge. I made it my business this morning to inquire from the Wexford County Council how much it provided last year for workmen's compensation. Deputy Allen knows that the Wexford County Council carries its own workmen's compensation risk. Last year, the Wexford County Council provided £1,600, and this year it is providing £3,000 on the assumption that this Bill will be in force during this year. That sum of £3,000 represents a rate of 2d. in the £.

That is no argument.

Assuming it was insuring with an insurance company, what would it be?

We will come to that later. I am only dealing with the allegation that was made last night.

I did not make reference to any county council.

I said that. I merely want to point out that, in respect of County Wexford, which may be regarded as a typical example, the increase suggested by Deputy Allen of between 6d. and 1/- in the £ in the rates is entirely fantastic. He also suggested that if the Bill were to become law it would mean an increase of from 6d. to 1/- in the rents of houses. I confess that I have not examined that in detail, but I think I would be safe in saying that his statement in respect of that matter was nearly as fantastic as that the rates would be increased by from 6d. to 1/- in the £.

Let us hope so.

Deputy Dr. Ryan moved an amendment asking that this Bill be postponed for three months to enable a Committee of this House to determine what effect the Bill will have on employment and on prices. It amazes me that, in relation to a Bill designed to do good for workmen, anybody should propose its postponement until the effect on prices and employment can be ascertained. It amazes me particularly when I remember that the Deputy who moved its postponement was a member of a Government which in 1952 introduced a Budget, the result of which was to increase unemployment by 18,000 in one year.

We challenge that statement. Such a statement has no relation whatsoever to the motion.

There was no concern then shown by any member of the Fianna Fáil Party about the effect of the increase in motor taxation on employment and prices in 1953. The members of the Fianna Fáil Party were not—or should I say no single member of the Fianna Fáil Party—concerned about the effect on employment and prices of the increased telephone charges.

They were not reduced this year.

That is not the argument.

It is just as good an argument as the Minister's.

I am trying to be as logical as I can.

The Minister is not logical.

In any case the Deputy's interruption was not designed to be logical. Certain increases were proposed here, and effect was given to them, in relation to telephone charges and postage generally in 1953 and there was no concern shown by any member of the Fianna Fáil Party at that time as to the possible effect of those increases on employment and prices. The motor taxation increase at that time amounted to £2,000,000. That is a pretty big sum.

That money was spent on labour on the roads.

That increase had a certain effect on employment and prices in other industries and I do not think that either Deputy Dr. Ryan or Deputy Allen concerned themselves when that particular measure was being steered through this House by the Minister for Local Government.

Employment has increased considerably in the motor business.

Let us examine now what the effect of this particular Bill will be. I think it was Deputy Allen last night—I hope I am not misquoting him because I have not had an opportunity of looking at the records—who suggested once or twice in the course of his speech that this Bill would impose an additional burden of £5,000,000 on both the agricultural and the manufacturing industries. That of course is very much exaggerated. At the present time there are approximately 500,000 workers insured for the purposes of workmen's compensation. The total premiums paid in respect of them come to £1,500,000. That represents about £3 per head.

Deputies spoke about the possibility of an increase of 100 per cent. in the rate of premium. I shall be a little bit more conservative and put the increase at about 80 per cent.; that would mean an increase of £1,200,000. Now the total insurable population is 750,000; that is to say there are 250,000 workers who are not covered for workmen's compensation by their employers. Assuming that another 50 per cent. of the 500,000 are not insured, we have 750,000 who would be insurable and whose employers would be responsible for compensating them in the event of an accident. Assuming that the total increase is £1,800,000 that would represent an average of £2 8s. per workman. I admit that £2 8s. per workman may seem a large sum, but that is on the assumption that the premiums would be increased by 80 per cent.

Will the Minister give an assurance that in future there will only be an additional £2 8s. per workman? It is only £3 at the moment. Is that an assurance?

It is not an assurance.

Is the Minister correct in stating £3 is all that is required to pay the premium for a workman's compensation?

Let me put it this way: the total premiums paid amount to £1,500,000 in respect of 500,000 workers. The average per worker is £3. It varies, of course, up and down, but the average is £3 per head.

The Minister may not be aware that it costs £6 10s. to insure an agricultural labourer.

I am talking about averages only. It may be £15 or it may be 10/- in some cases.

It is £30 for some.

It is quite simple arithmetic really—very, very simple. I am arguing on the assumption that the premium increase would be 80 per cent. and I do not think there is any justification for anybody saying or the insurance companies proposing that there will be an increase of 80 per cent. in the present premiums.

I am concerned with the worker in this Bill. I am concerned about the employer, too, but the main idea of workmen's compensation is to compensate the worker for loss of earnings. The number of workers involved, whose employers are liable to compensate them, is in the region of 750,000 and of that number 500,000 are insured by their employers. The total premium in relation to the 500,000 is £1,400,000. Let us bear in mind at the same time that that £1,400,000 does not cover workmen's compensation entirely. It is also intended to cover common law actions. I think it would be unreasonable to assume that £500,000 of that £1,400,000 is paid by way of compensation to injured workers.

Deputy Desmond gave certain figures, and I think they are pretty accurate, showing the premiums paid per year and the amount paid out to the ordinary workman. I think all of us must admit that of the total sum received by insurance companies by way of workmen's compensation premiums the injured workman certainly does not get a fair proportion; he gets a very small part of it indeed.

The legal profession get just as much.

That is another day's work. I think employers themselves ought to be concerned about the treatment meted out to them by insurance companies. The insurance companies have indicated to me that in respect of the increase from £2 10s. per week to £4 10s. per week and also in respect of the increase in the case of fatal accidents, and in relation to other minor changes, the increase will be in the region of 23 per cent. In relation to Section 8 and Section 11 they have suggested an increase of 49 per cent. on the existing rates. Frankly, I cannot understand where the insurance companies get this notional figure, because it can only be a notional figure, of 49 per cent. I believe it is on the assumption that every injured workman will now seek redemption. I believe, too, that it is based on the assumption that in every case where redemption is sought the courts will grant the redemption.

They have power to do that under the Bill.

The judges administering the courts in this country are not fools. The injured workman must prove his case. He will have to prove permanent incapacity.

That represents a total increase of 72 per cent.

On existing rates, yes. As I have said, I cannot for the life of me understand how the insurance companies can justify an increase of 49 per cent. on existing rates in relation to Section 8 and Section 11 of this Bill. I will deal with Section 11 later, but, in respect of Section 8, I have given my views already and I said that I was prepared to reconsider Section 8 with a view to amending its provisions on the lines that were suggested by Deputy Dr. Ryan, Deputy Kyne and Deputy Larkin in the course of this debate.

Deputy Dr. Ryan submitted that we might, in respect of workmen's compensation, consider the setting up of a special court or tribunal to deal with compensation claims so that we might achieve some uniformity in decision. I appreciate his concern about that, but I do not think it would be at all feasible or desirable. If a special case can be made for establishing a special court or tribunal to deal with workmen's compensation cases there would also be a case for the setting up of a special court to deal with drunken driving charges in order that there would be uniformity in decision.

Many people have complained of the different decisions in workmen's compensation cases, but so also people from time to time have complained of the differences in judgments by one district justice as against another in respect of drunken driving or other charges. I appreciate what Deputy Dr. Ryan has in mind and I think it is something that might be considered by the commission which will deal with the whole code of workmen's compensation.

Deputy Kyne made reference here to a case, or cases, brought to his notice in the last few weeks where employers are seeking now to achieve a redemption of weekly payments being made to injured workmen, believing, of course, that the redemptions that might be made by the courts would be at the old rates. If such a practice is being engaged in, or to be engaged in, between now and the passing of this Bill, I think it is only right that steps should be taken to rectify that position. The Bill has been under discussion for some time and it is a few months since it was published, but it could be described as nothing less than sharp practice, on the part of these employers, if they now seek redemption whereas heretofore they made no effort to come to terms with the injured workman. If this sharp practice is to be engaged in now and in the next few weeks I will have to seek the permission of the Dáil to include an amendment which will do justice to the injured workman.

Will the Minister's amendment be retrospective in case what he fears may have happened?

I want to remind the Deputy that I have promised nothing. I will consider the introduction of an amendment to deal with this matter.

Deputy Dr. Ryan took exception to the abolition of the supplemental allowances. I had a pretty rigid view of that matter when the 1953 Act was before the Dáil and I think many of us in the Opposition, from all Parties, took exception to the fact that the supplemental allowances were being introduced. The principal aim in introducing them originally was to compensate a man who had a family and I think it would be a very bad precedent to continue this idea of differentiating between a single man and a married man. We might find ourselves eventually subjected to pressure from certain sections to differentiate between single and married men in industry and to pay a single man a certain wage and a larger wage to a married man. Inasmuch as at present industry does not differentiate between single and married men, and I hope there never will be such differentiation, I do not know of any reason why there should be such differentiation either in the case of workmen's compensation.

Deputies also suggested that we should take steps to make workmen's compensation compulsory. I do not think it was intended that anything should be done in this Bill to make insurance compulsory in respect of workmen's compensation. I believe every one of us considers it to be desirable and I believe that the employer who is not covered by insurance is undergoing a very severe risk which I would not be prepared to undergo. For his own protection, as in the case of a man who is driving a motor car, every person who employs a man should insure for the purpose of workmen's compensation.

I was interested in the views given by Deputy Dr. Ryan on Section 11 of this Bill because I thought that I was doing him a favour. Every one of us applauded the introduction by Deputy Dr. Ryan of Section 6 of the 1953 Act. Section 6 was introduced to allow a workmen's compensation claim within a period of 12 months to proceed by way of common law. I remember listening to Deputy Dr. Ryan and saying to myself that that was the indication of that section of the 1953 Act. Deputy Dr. Ryan now comes along and says that that section was only intended to allow an injured workman to proceed within 12 months by way of common law if it was proved that he was ignorant of his rights. I took the trouble of reading up the debate of the 28th July, 1953, and while certain workers are adverted to Deputy Dr. Ryan that day heard views expressed that the section was not absolutely airtight.

Deputy Dr. Ryan was very insistent that the section was airtight and my only purpose in introducing Section 11 was to make assurance doubly sure. In view of a recent decision that has been given by the Supreme Court possibly my fears were unfounded, and possibly now it will not be necessary to continue with Section 11, but Section 11 was introduced before the decision was given by the Supreme Court, as I wanted to safeguard the position, especially the position of injured workmen who would be affected by Section 11.

Many other small points were raised but I do not think it was intended that they should be dealt with by me or that they should be dealt with in the present Bill. The committee which I propose to set up will, I trust, be functioning in a very short time and will, I believe, tackle all the complicated problems that go with workmen's compensation codes, and make suggestions to remedy these difficulties and overcome the problems involved.

I do not think that the amendment which Deputy Dr. Ryan moved should be considered by the House. The very significant thing about it was that there was practically no support from his own Party for the amendment, which leads me to believe it is not a Party amendment. Deputy Lynch welcomed Section 8 without any qualification here last night although the main theme of Deputy Dr. Ryan's speech was that Section 8 would be the most expensive part of the Bill. Deputy McGrath made an admirable speech on this particular Bill and he demonstrated—as did several others and I merely take Deputy McGrath because he is an Opposition Deputy— that he fully appreciates all the difficulties of injured workmen and what they need. Therefore, I would suggest that the amendment be withdrawn, or failing that, that the House would reject it because it appears to me, on a thorough examination of all the facts at my disposal with regard to cost, that there is no justification at all for assuming that the passing of this Workmen's Compensation Bill will have the effect that Deputy Dr. Ryan seems to think it would have.

Question put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 59; Níl, 48.

  • Barry, Anthony.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Beirne, John.
  • Belton, Jack.
  • Blowick, Joseph.
  • Burke, James J.
  • Byrne, Alfred.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Carew, John.
  • Coburn, George.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan.
  • Costello, John A.
  • Deering, Mark.
  • Desmond, Daniel.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Dockrell, Henry P.
  • Dockrell, Maurice E.
  • Donnellan, Michael.
  • Doyle, Peadar S.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Finucane, Patrick.
  • Giles, Patrick.
  • Hession, James M.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Keyes, Michael.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • Larkin, Denis.
  • Larkin, James.
  • Leary, Johnny.
  • Lindsay, Patrick J.
  • Lynch, Thaddeus.
  • MacBride, Seán.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • Madden, David J.
  • Manley, Timothy.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • Murphy, William.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Carroll, Maureen.
  • O'Donnell, Patrick.
  • O'Donovan, John.
  • O'Hara, Thomas.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas F.
  • O'Reilly, Patrick.
  • O'Sullivan, Denis J.
  • Palmer, Patrick W.
  • Pattison, James P.
  • Reynolds, Mary.
  • Roddy, Joseph.
  • Rooney, Eamonn.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Sweetman, Gerard.
  • Tully, James.
  • Tully, John.

Níl

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Breen, Dan.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Burke, Patrick J.
  • Carter, Frank.
  • Colley, Harry.
  • Collins, James J.
  • Cotter, Edward.
  • Crowley, Honor M.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Davern, Michael J.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • de Valera, Eamon.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Egan, Nicholas.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Gogan, Richard.
  • Harris, Thomas.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Kelly, Edward.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kennedy, Michael J.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lemass, Seán.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • McGrath, Patrick.
  • Maguire, Ben.
  • Maher, Peadar.
  • Moher, John W.
  • Moylan, Seán.
  • Ormonde, John.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Mary B.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
  • Walsh, Thomas.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Doyle and Mrs. O'Carroll; Níl: Deputies Kennedy and Hilliard.
Question declared carried.
Bill read a Second Time; Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 15th June.
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