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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 1 May 1958

Vol. 167 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 9—General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:—
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

I was dealing with what I have called the tragic psychological effect on a people as a result of the failure to implement promises made to them. The curious feature, following upon the Government's withdrawal of food subsidies, was the comparative silence on the part of the people. There was not anything like a scene caused by indignation. There was no protest that could be attributed to their feeling of having been let down. There was, instead, stunned disillusionment. If one might seek for another effect, it is that the people who had been fooled deliberately in such a manner have come, within the past year or so, to regard all public men as alike. That is a feeling which I sincerely hope will pass and that the people, coming out of this state of economic coma and political concussion, will, drawing upon their restored memories, form a firm resolution that, in the future, they will pay more attention to the serious business of separating the wheat from the chaff.

In this Budget, there are three serious defects—that is, quite apart altogether from the overall picture of the almost senile stagnation associated with its lack of planning and obvious lack of purpose. There is no policy indication whatsoever. There is no hope, except perhaps the occasional pious platitude, that unemployment and emigration may be relieved as the result of expected buoyancy in the nation's finances. Nowhere have we been told, in the whole course of the Minister's speech, how that buoyancy is making itself apparent, how it is being effected and what its future prospects are. There is no indication in this Budget statement whereby the citizen of this country—be he big or small, in business, on the land or in a profession—can plan with any degree of security for the future. I name those three defects, leaving out altogether what might be termed the Government's magnificent disregard for those people depending upon social services. The omission to relate the rising cost of living—a cost of living raised deliberately by this Government—to the needs of the people is something that cannot bear classification with other things. It is too serious, too tragic. It shows the utter lack of feeling on the part of the people responsible for those of our people who have to live on remittances from the State.

Almost everybody has mentioned emigration here. It must be conceded, and I am prepared to concede, that people, both men and women, are leaving this country attracted by greater salaries and more pleasant amenities. Some are actually leaving what might be regarded as comparatively good employment here. But is the reason for their leaving comparatively good employment here to go to what appears to be more attractive employment elsewhere clearcut and the only reason? It is not. Lack of faith in the future must be the great contributory cause when that kind of thing is happening. On this question of emigration, which hits my constituency as much as any other—and it should not give rise to smiles on the part of my colleague, Deputy Calleary, when it is mentioned.

Leave my name out of it, please.

If the Deputy smiles when I mention emigration, I think I am entitled to make the comment——

I live amongst the people; you do not.

——that it is not a subject in regard to which he should smile and it is not a situation in which he should so obviously rejoice. After all, the greater the number of people in our constituency, the greater the benefit that will result to Deputy Calleary himself in the setting up of homes. No effort on the part of either Deputy Calleary, as the older warrior in this area, or his sadly misinstructed neophyte colleague, will prevent me from speaking my mind within the rules of this House and at the same time presenting the views of the people I have the honour to represent.

I never attempted it.

It is nice to know even at this stage that the Deputy's amusement at emigration has ceased.

In the year 1931, a greater number of people came into this country than left it. At that time, there was becoming manifest a trend. Stability had been reached within our shores, and that stability was becoming attractive to those who had left, and they were returning. A change came in the political scene and that trend was reversed and has continued—with some small intermissions during the two inter-Party Government régimes—all along during the reign of Fianna Fáil.

I well remember the beginning of that régime. I cannot fail to recall, with admiration, on the one hand, and sadness, on the other, the first evil effect. I recall with admiration the men, the heads of families, the small landowners, who sought employment on State-sponsored works in this country, who were refused it because they were not members of the Fianna Fáil Party and who nevertheless stayed resolutely at home. I remember with sadness the number whose spirits were broken by that Soviet-like and possibly Soviet-inspired campaign to break the spirits of men who left and never returned. Those were the days when our people's hopes were shattered in the first instance. Those were the days when the feeling that open competition and fair play for all no longer existed amongst us. That condition of affairs has continued ever since and is still in our midst, as every Deputy knows who receives correspondence about any position in relation to the filling of which he had a complaint to make.

Emigration can be cured to some extent, to an appreciable extent, very probably to the extent that is necessary to give us that turning point so vital to our survival; but it will not be done by this Budget and it will not be done by this Government. More people have been run out of this country as a result of the Budget of 1957 and they will continue to run as the result of the Budget of 1958. It is all very well to hear something so pitiably lamentable as Deputy Doherty here to-day attributing unemployment to the use of machinery. I suppose it is well not to blame too much somebody who is not the author of the words.

As an effort to meet the rise in the cost of living and as an effort to placate, certain concessions were made to corporation workers in Dublin, to the Army, the Garda and civil servants. Certainly the proper approach was made to all these people—that some help should be given to them in their plight in trying to relate their income to the demands made upon it. But what about the widows and orphans and the old age pensioners? There was nothing for them. Remember always that they are the people who, by any effort of their own, cannot supplement what they are getting. Any person in receipt of sickness benefit, an old age pension or a widow's and orphan's pension is unable to supplement what the State gives.

I would have thought that it was to those sections of the community the Government would have directed its attention when it started to distribute largesse. Let us consider, for a moment, the financial and economic position, vis-á-vis the value of the £ as between 1938 and 1958. In reply to a parliamentary question to the Taoiseach by Deputy Michael O'Higgins, some months ago, in relation to the purchasing power of the £ in mid-March, 1957 and mid-November, 1957, the reply was given that the £ which purchased a pound's worth of goods in 1938 purchased in mid-March, 1957, 7/8 worth and in mid-November, 1957, 7/4 worth. I have no reason to believe that the situation has improved in the meantime. On the other hand, I have every reason to believe that it has deteriorated but let us leave it at the 7/4.

In 1938 the old age pensioner in this country had a maximum pension of 10/- a week which purchased 10/- worth of goods. In 1958 the maximum pension of the old age pensioner is 25/-. That 25/-, in the main, is due to the efforts of two Governments under Deputy Costello who were not unmindful of the plight of these people and tried to bring their position into proper perspective, where their income would be related to the demands made upon it. That 25/- to-day, in relation to the purchasing power of the £, purchases exactly 9/2 worth of goods vis-á-vis the 1938 position. In spite of all our efforts down the years the purchasing power of the old age pensioner has dropped 10d. That holds good for every other person, not alone those in receipt of State benefits but people in every other sphere.

I had an amusing conversation with a student during the week. We were discussing the difficulties of students to-day as compared with their difficulties in my time and the two of us worked out this little formula as to what we could do with 10/-. I said that in 1938, when I was a student, if I were able to lay my hands on a 10/- note on a Saturday evening I could face the town with confidence. It gave me 20 cigarettes, a box of matches, 18 bottles of stout and my chances. In 1958 with a 10/- note a similar student can go out and have 20 cigarettes, no matches and eight bottles of stout. That in itself is an indication of how things have changed. It should do something to bring to the minds of the Minister and the Government the difficulties which face old age pensioners, widows and orphans, blind pensioners and others in receipt of sickness benefits.

I would have thought that, having regard to the changing values of money, the Minister would have seen fit to alter the allowances for people who are paying income-tax. Does anybody realise that the very junior girl who comes to Dublin to work in the E.S.B., Bord na Móna or the Civil Service or in a business house has to pay income-tax on her very low income? That income, even without tax deduction, has to be subsidised by her parents in order to keep her in reasonably good apartments.

The same goes for the junior man. You have that extra drain upon the family trying to place its boys and girls in position in Dublin and the provinces. Reckoning on the same basis, the £45 allowance to the married woman for tax purposes is entirely inadequate and the figure of £1,500, fixed for surtax purposes many years ago, no longer bears any relation to reality. In 1958, £1,500 has exactly the purchasing power of £550 and the man with the £550 purchasing power is paying surtax. These are matters with which the Minister and his Department should concern themselves so as to make the burden of tax paying more equitable.

Contrast the situation even in relation to death duties in this country and Great Britain. In Britain, there is but one duty. Admittedly, it appears to be somewhat high. In this country, there are the three duties following upon a death—estate, succession and, in certain instances, legacy duties, percentage levies varying with means and varying with the blood relationship and so on of the recipients of legacies. It will be found, on examination, I am sure, in relation to any person who leaves over a certain figure liable to estate duty, succession duty and legacy duty, that the aggregate of these percentages will exceed what is being paid by far richer and far more firmly established concerns in Britain.

In a struggling country such as this is still, with its growing pains, as it were, the imposition of a code—or should I say "the continued imposition of a code?"—suited to a country long established industrially like Great Britain is illogical and must, of necessity, bring hardship in its train. If the present commission examining our whole tax code do not advert to these aspects of our fiscal structure, I would ask the Minister and his officials to consider them very seriously.

Part of this Budget will have to meet a subsidy for nationalised transport—C.I.E. That nationalised transport is divided into two parts, freight and passenger. In freight traffic, there is competition; in passenger traffic, there is a monopoly. The monopoly pays, as it must. In freight services, there are losses and we have the extraordinary situation that, in an all-round increase in passenger rail and bus fares, children's concessions will be taken away to pay the losses on freight and, incidentally, to ease the amount of the subsidy which this Budget has to meet. That is a situation in respect of which we can no longer be complacent and can no longer be content with what some paper recently described as the third chance being given to the Minister for Industry and Commerce to clean up the country's transport system. To describe it as a cleaning up must be the greatest euphemism of modern times.

Nowhere in this Budget do I see any relief for the smaller people, the smaller landowners, the people who live in constituencies like mine, like Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Clare, portions of Cork and many other places. I see no relief. There is not any. The same situation will apply this year as applied last year and which nobody has denied.

Deputy Doherty having failed to make any comment or excuse for the increased emigration from our constituency, I now cordially invite Deputy Calleary to tell the House and the whole of North Mayo that that emigration, first of all, is not increasing and to assert that it is not attributable to the burden of the 1957 Budget and this perpetuating charter which we are now discussing.

Speaking last year on that Budget, I said that the effect of the increase in the prices of flour, bread and butter would be an immediate one, certainly, in one respect, that more people would emigrate from constituencies such as mine and emigrate at a younger age than was ever anticipated. It is funny but the mention of young people emigrating from a constituency such as mine and emigrating at a younger age than was ever anticipated brings a smile, this time not to Deputy Calleary's face, but to Deputy Doherty's. Is it amusement or is it a cynical hope that the earnings will continue so that they may flow in a particular direction?

Nobody can deny that the result of those increased prices is that things have been made more difficult for the person whose income has not and cannot increase. Remittances from America and England to areas such as those have become part and parcel of our financial structure in those areas, and they are not as great as they used to be. Jobs are not as easily got in America and England now and earnings have dropped somewhat. Picture then the difficulty of people into whose homes comes less and from those homes more must go out to buy. That is a gap that cannot be bridged in any way, unless another member of the family is sent abroad to supplement the income. That is the contribution of this Budget to the solution of emigration, at least in the area I represent. That cannot and will not be denied.

Emigration has taken on a completely different character from that which it used to have. At one time when children grew up, they went away as part of the system. They became, as it were, in rotation the wage earners for the family. Fathers and mothers were content to let them go. They suffered less hardship because it was the accepted thing, knowing that in that situation they were going only for a while. They were emigrating to get some capital in order to come back and build a home, so that they could set up in their own country and raise a family. Things are different now. Fathers and mothers have long given up the hard stony-hearted practice of parting with children as wage earners. They are now faced with a greater emotional pull. They know that when their children go now they have gone for good.

In my constituency, the same as in many other constituencies, we have a practice called seasonal migration. Having relation to the type of holdings people had, to the type of work they did and to the type of lives they led, it was a good thing. It was part of their lives. They were specialised workers. I know people whose family for four generations have been working with the same British farmer and his family descendants. It was specialised work, work for which there was respect and work which was well paid. The advent of machinery into the farms of England will cause a drop in that employment and will lessen the chances of employment of that type. That is something for which no provision is made in this Budget. It is not even thought about.

Housing, particularly in Gaeltacht areas, will get a wallop. There will be a reduction in that. The policy of the Government in incorporating what were the former levies into the financial structure of the State is a step which I do not think wise. It removes a weapon which one would otherwise have at one's disposal for emergencies, actual or threatening. I shall leave the full examination of that intricate part of our economy to Deputy Sweetman, the ex-Minister for Finance. As I have already said, this is a Budget which gives no hope. It gives the momentary relief that nothing fresh has been imposed. Ultimately, however, the people will realise that nothing fresh has been imposed because the country cannot stand any more.

If it is a Budget, such as the Minister for Health described it last night, preparing the way for reliefs, I should like, in all sincerity, to warn him that when the time for relief comes, there will be very few to relieve. The effect of the Budget, after the feeling of relief stage passes, will be a realisation that what was there before blistering the backs of the community is still there, with ever-increasing force. It is to be hoped that when the time comes, the people will punish as they punished for the 1952 Budget. They will not be punishing so much in revenge for their material sufferings and their material hardships, but they will be, through the medium of the ballot box, wreaking vengeance on the fraudulent, wreaking vengeance on the conscienceless, wreaking vengeance on those who treated them as a means to an end, treated them as the means by which they got back into power, and as the avenue through which they could move to position, prestige and abuse of power.

I hope when that time comes the people, particularly the younger people, will realise there is wheat and there is chaff, and that God will give them an opportunity to select the wheat from the chaff, so that the integrity of public men will be worthily preserved, and that public institutions will be removed from the position of disrepute which they now occupy. I hope that we will go forward, believing in the fundamentals of truth, honesty and integrity in Irish public life. Our people are the best people in the world to withstand suffering, to make sacrifices when the necessity is there. Let nobody come into this House, like Deputy Doherty did to-day, to tell me, across the floor of the House, about housewives having to pay through the nose for tea. The higher the price they pay for tea, the better he likes it, and the more profit he makes. Let nobody tell me that is patriotism lest in my indignation at this shameless effrontery, I might be led to say something which my finer feelings might regret—not that it would not be true but that I might hurt unduly. I shall close by wishing no more upon the Fianna Fáil Party in return for the damage they have done than an awakening of conscience and the resultant restitution to our people.

After the Minister's speech on the introduction of the 1958 Budget, the former Minister for Finance, Deputy Sweetman, made a short statement during which he thought fit to refer to what he considered to be something which was very unusual in the Minister's financial policy. He picked upon the figures for disbursement from the Exchequer during the month of March, the last month of the financial year. He questioned why it was that in the month of March £5,000,000 more was paid out than in the last month of any previous financial year. I thought that the Opposition speakers, having been given the lead, would have gone on and developed the ideas behind Deputy Sweetman's statement. He seemed to think that it was peculiar that a Government should pay its bills at the end of the year. His statement seemed to imply that if he were Minister he would not have thought it necessary to pay out £5,000,000 more than was done in previous years. In other words, he seemed to imply that he would have left the bills on the top shelf to be taken care of at some future date. That query of his typifies past Coalition financial policy: "Do not pay to-day what we can leave off until to-morrow; do not pay this year anything which we can get away with until next year and if we are not there then, somebody else will pay for it."

And do not fake the accounts which you publish every week in Iris Oifigiúil—every week up to last month.

That was one of the points which the former Minister made in his statement on the Budget and it typifies the financial mentality of the Coalition. It is true to say that if the innuendo there were followed up by the present Minister, it is possible that he could keep back that £5,000,000 and not pay it out, with the result that we could possibly expect a better Budget, but the policy of this Government is that we do not leave debts lying over. We pay our way and in that way we can build up financial security and financial equilibrium. I shall give this much credit to the ex-Minister for Finance. In 1956 he certainly got away from the various financial theories put forward by the various Coalition Parties.

A new habit or vogue was set in motion by Deputy MacBride who theorised here year in and year out, for a number of years, on the question of the balance of payments. He said that the economic structure of this country could be set right and that our twin evils of unemployment and emigration could be righted, if we only repatriated that money which, he alleged, lay in foreign parts. He succeeded in convincing his colleagues in the other Parties that he was right and steps were taken to repatriate those external assets. We all give Deputy Sweetman this much credit, that he saw where that was leading and he cried halt. It was unfortunate for him and his Party and the Coalition Parties that halt was cried too late.

His colleague who has just spoken, the former Minister for the Gaeltacht, propounded some contradictory theories here. He bewailed the fact that now one could purchase less cigarettes, tobacco and drink for a given sum. He also bewailed the fact that certain benefits to the poorer sections of the community were not increased. He bewailed the fact that prices of consumer goods had increased. I would like him to whisper into the ear of the former Minister for Finance how this miracle, which he visualises, can take place, how we can get back to the position where larger quantities of drink could be purchased for a given figure and how, at the same time, we could continue increasing social welfare benefits and bring down the cost of living. It is the old war cry, the old battle cry. It is the old election cry: "Better times for all."

The same speaker mentioned the small farmers and said that this Budget represented continuance of the blows given to them in the last Budget. The last Budget provided certain sums of money for the farming community. This Budget provides an extra £2,500,000 for those farmers. How can their position be worsened by increasing the amount which is distributed to them to the tune of £2,500,000? It does not require any great legal mind, such as Deputy Lindsay has, to reason that out. That statement, therefore, is untrue. This Budget will improve the lot of the farming community——

The farmers will be very interested to hear that.

——due to the fact that a further £2,500,000 is to be expended in various ways for the agricultural industry.

Would the Deputy elaborate on that?

I am making my speech. Deputy Lindsay has made his. I am picking holes in his and if the Deputy wants to pick holes in mine, he will get an opportunity.

I want the Deputy to fill the holes.

I will do as I think best. Deputy Lindsay particularly stressed honesty in public life. He says that a man is as good as his word. Let us take his own statement. The insinuation is that if Deputy Lindsay's Party were in office, the public could purchase more drink at a lower price. They could expect better social welfare benefits and emigration would be reduced. The Party to which he belongs and the Government to which he belonged, at various elections, especially the 1951 election to which he refers and the 1954 election, used propaganda which certainly was the start in this country of any weakening there was in the opinions which the public had of public men.

One Party went out and promised the farmers one thing. The Labour Party went out to promise increased social welfare benefits and the Fine Gael Party got going with their famous food consumer price list—a list which contained the 1951 prices which they had not the faintest hope of implementing. If the 1952 Budget was so bad, why was there no attempt in 1954, when another Coalition took over, to remedy it? Would the 1957 Budget be improved upon by a further Coalition Government? My view is that the taxes which were imposed and the financial provisions which were made in the 1952 Budget brought increased sums to the Exchequer. Those sums were very welcome, indeed, to the ex-Minister for Finance. Not alone that, but he even went a good distance in his sweeping levies of 1956 to find a further few millions to add to the millions brought in by the 1952 Budget.

A statement made by Deputy Lindsay was that the position was reached where businessmen could not plan. The periods, 1948 to 1951 and 1954 to 1957, were the bane of industrialists and others whose production depended upon long-term planning. Various Ministers made contradictory statements and we had a situation where, for instance, the policy of repatriation of external assets was in vogue one day and the next day a policy of levies was introduced. Where was the stability there? How could a businessman plan in times like those?

It is strange that a Deputy from Mayo can come in here and refer time after time to emigration, develop the theme, go back on it and twist and turn it and give figures which are, of course, not official figures and, at the same time, not mention unemployment. He did not give figures for unemployment, nor did he indicate what the unemployment position was in his constituency in Mayo. That is the legal mind again, putting up a case, whether it is good or bad. He quoted unofficial figures which at best were guesswork in regard to emigration. The figure mentioned was 50,000.

Has the Bishop of Cork a legal mind?

We all know that there is emigration and we regret it. We are doing our best to reduce it, but a Deputy from Mayo, who is an ex-Minister, refers at length to emigration and does not, of course, make any suggestions as to what should be done to end it but blames us alone for the emigration level. He does not mention unemployment, nor does he ask us to do anything about it. Why then should he make certain remarks to his colleague from the same constituency, Deputy Doherty? Deputy Doherty can go back to the North Mayo constituency and say to the public that Deputy Lindsay did not think it worth while to refer to the huge figure of unemployment. We have this much satisfaction. This year, there has been a steady weekly drop in the unemployment figure. There are 6,000 to 8,000 fewer unemployed. That must be reduced still further and so must the numbers who emigrate.

It is said in this House that all those who emigrate do not emigrate because of economic needs. Emigration is a vicious circle. A young man may leave because financial circumstances compel him to earn a livelihood elsewhere, but his pal may leave because he has gone.

Or because the girl has gone.

That also happens. It is a vicious circle, not entirely due to economic conditions. I am sure the Minister has in mind this problem which requires remedying and remedying soon. We talk about increased production but what is needed most in the country is an increase in the population. We should stem the decreasing of our population through emigration, as the country would, of course, be much better off in retaining here the people who emigrate, those who are young, energetic and hard-working. This Party, having produced the 1958 Budget, has made provision for wise expenditure during the year, has made sure that at the end of 1958, there will not be any debts and that the Budget will balance.

That prophecy last year was pretty much out, was it not?

The financial policy of getting out of debt, using revenue and using the other moneys available to the Government to the best advantage, is the only policy that will ensure that works of a useful character will be available for our people. In that way only can we hope to stem emigration.

Every enterprising person in the country, whether he be a farmer or a businessman, at certain times of the year makes some plan or budget, if you like, in regard to what he may do in the coming year. There are some people who make no plan whatever. You get the old bachelor or spinster who feels satisfied with the accumulations that have been made already. This Budget which has been presented here by the Government reminds me of that old bachelor or old spinster.

I should not like to be taken for one moment as saying that the Minister for Finance is an old man and that his day is nearly wound up. Far from it, but I would say to the Minister that while he was Minister for Agriculture, he took big decisions, unpopular decisions, if you like, in reducing our herds of cattle in the past. I would say he was a man of integrity and a man who was not afraid to do unpopular things in the old days. However, I feel he has become very conservative and whether he is responsible or the Civil Service behind him, I do not know. At the moment it is people with integrity and vision who are needed.

When this State was established away back in 1922, we had a Government that was put in by the people and it was full of integrity and ability. Great achievements were secured. We had the great Shannon electricity supply scheme; we had factories built, such as the sugar factories, and housing and other projects were proceeded with. It is a pity that after all the achievements in those early days of the State we have now adopted the attitude of the old bachelor or the old spinster and seem to be satisfied with what has been done in the past. There is a lot of leeway to be made up and there is much useful work to be done. This State is only in its infant stages. We are now at the crossroads when we must compare how very small are the advances we have made as compared with those of other countries that have been war-torn in the years gone by.

It is generally admitted that agriculture has been responsible for our satisfactory balance of payments position. If agriculture is responsible for that, naturally one would think that more money would be thrown into that important industry by the State. When one looks around our countryside to-day, as bleak as if war had swept over it, one would come to the conclusion that very little had been done during over 36 years of native government. I know there are big difficulties in the way, but where there is a will, there is a way. If those who have been responsible for government down through the years had spent more money on agriculture, a great deal of hardship would have been alleviated and the number who have left our shores could have been reduced. Those people who are leaving our shores at the moment feel that very little is being done to encourage them to remain. Looking at this Book of Estimates and at this Budget for the coming year, I can see very little hope or inducement for them to remain.

I had thought—I could be wrong— that it would be much better if the moneys being given to alleviate the position of the unemployed could be given in some other way to those people who are in receipt of unemployment assistance. The great majority of those people in receipt of unemployment assistance would prefer to earn money the hard way. I often thought that if those moneys could be allocated in some way or other to the county councils to enable them to give more employment on our roads, or if they could be given indirectly to the farmer, with a stipulation that he should give a recognised wage, it would be a great asset to our people as a whole and would make them self-sufficient.

I regret very much that the amount to be spent this year on rural electrification is being reduced by over £1,000,000. That was a very useful scheme and a scheme that encouraged our people to remain at home. There is, as everybody knows, a large part of our country still awaiting the benefits of rural electrification. It was bad policy on the part of the Minister to reduce the amount, until such time as that scheme would have been completed. This year's Budget is no different from that of last year. Although those on the other side of the House are complimenting themselves that there have been no increases, I do not know what they have to compliment themselves about.

I am sure the Government has taken into consideration, judging from all the complaints the Minister naturally must have heard throughout the year, the fact that the people would not be able to bear any further taxation, that they are taxed out of existence. In how many houses in the rural parts and in the towns are there people without butter and other necessaries of life? I know several families in my own area who cannot afford to buy butter. Although the Government might be inclined to impose further taxation, they knew very well that the country as a whole could not accept it.

I cannot conclude without dealing with one section of the people for whom appeals have been made here. I refer to the old age pensioners. It would be difficult to devise a scheme under which they would be treated above and apart from other sections of the community. However, the old man who finds an increase on his ounce of tobacco or little drop of spirits deserves some consideration. It might be possible to work out some scheme which would cushion the blow for those people. They are worthy of consideration and, as the Minister is a very sympathetic man himself, he might consider putting some plan into operation to assist that section of the community.

What grieves me most in the administration of affairs of this country and the spending of money derived from taxation is that first things do not come first. I refer particularly to the agricultural industry, as I have the honour to be a representative of farmers. I speak with a certain amount of pride of the achievements of the farmers in 1957, when they increased production to such an extent that we had sufficient to balance our trade with other countries for the first time in ten years. That was done with very little inducement or incentive from any Government down the years.

While agriculture produces 80 per cent. of the wealth of our country, the amount ploughed back into it is relatively small compared with other services. I may be excused if I speak of those matters in this debate, but coming from West Cork, I feel I must do so. That is where Most Rev. Dr. Lucey, Bishop of Cork and Apostolic Administrator of Ross, made so many important pronouncements very recently. I had the privilege of listening to him myself in my own town of Skibbereen. The following morning, when I read the Cork Examiner, I began to examine my own conscience to see if I were doing my duty as a public representative. The headlines of the Cork Examiner of last Monday morning, April 28th were: “Shame on Us of this Generation”.

I am only 12 months in this House and it is certainly not for want of trying, if I have failed to bring home to the proper authorities the necessity to do something constructive for the area I represent. I have spoken of the necessity for employment in the most productive work which could be undertaken—afforestation. I was surprised again to-day to read in the Cork Examiner that Dr. Lucey has referred to afforestation. Last December I asked the Minister for Lands if he would consider increasing the present grant of £10 per acre for private forestry development and he replied that he was at present engaged in a full examination of private planting in all its aspects and, until that examination had been completed, he was not in a position to make a statement.

That would seem to be a matter for the Estimate.

I understand, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, but the money must come from the Minister for Finance for any work we undertake.

That does not entitle a Deputy to refer to expenditure. Most of these matters arise rather on the Estimates than on this motion.

Well, having mentioned it, somebody may take notice of it. The other matters I referred to in my time were the cleaning of rivers. I know the Local Authorities (Works) Act was introduced by the late Deputy T. J. Murphy, then Minister for Local Government——

I must rule the Deputy out on the question of the drainage of rivers, as that is a matter for the relevant Estimate. The Deputy will get every opportunity of raising it then. It does not arise on a Financial Motion. The House is dealing with the question of taxation.

Very well. If we can provide productive work for the population of West Cork, which is so rapidly declining, we will be doing a great service to the country and will help to stem the flow of emigration. Emigration has been mentioned here so often to-day that I feel obliged to mention it also. This is what Dr. Lucey says of the area I represent:—

"Few places in the country have been as hard hit by emigration as West Cork. This diocese of Ross had a Catholic population of roughly 32,000 when the Free State took over from the British. In 1946 the total was 24,152. At present it is little, if anything, above 20,000."

That occurred in the short space of 36 years—a decrease from 32,000 of a Catholic population, not to mention other people, down to 20,000. That happened in the area I come from. It is a depressed area, but nevertheless the people there are industrious. It is because of their industry and their outlook on work that they emigrate in preference to staying at home. It is the best of our young boys and young girls who have the courage to emigrate and be independent in a foreign land, rather than stay at home trying to exist on a miserable pittance which they call the dole. Yes, it is the less active and less intelligent of our young people who are afraid to face the emigrant ship. They are the very people who now remain in West Cork, keeping the home fires burning.

I hope the Minister will look intelligently and with an eye of compassion on this area. To reiterate what Dr. Lucey said, we are not beggars; all we look for is our right. If £124,000,000 is collected from the taxpayers, we in West Cork with a population of 20,000 are entitled to the spending of £1,000,000 of that money. What a change it would put on the landscape there, where the hills are now growing furze, the rivers are flowing over the fertile land and the boreens to-day are worse than 50 years ago.

I came on a deputation with members of the Cork Country Council to try to do something for the unfortunate farmers living in the highways and byways, to provide them with road services. It was no good. If we could only get what we consider our right, that £1,000,000 should be expended to put the people to productive work, there is plenty of it to be done in the area. I could mention scores of proposals, but the Leas-Cheann Comhairle may not allow me to elaborate on them. The fact remains that there is plenty of productive employment available if the money is sent down to West Cork, whether in the form of grants to the county council to provide better roads for the farmers in backward areas or whether it is provided for afforestation, the cleaning of rivers, housing or something else.

When I go back over the speech made 12 months ago by the Minister for Finance, I must say I agree with a great deal of his statement on that ooccasion. This is what he said:—

"The searching out of wasteful or unnecessary expenditure and its elimination will require keen and continuous attention. But the urgency and difficulty of our budgetary problem this year required that a start should be made at once. I shall mention a number of specific economies which have already been decided upon but which represent merely an instalment of what the Government hope in time to achieve.

It will be no surprise that I should begin with the administrative machine. The present annual cost of the Civil Service, Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces amounts, in round figures, to £25,000,000—almost £17,000,000 for the Civil Service, over £3,500,000 for the Garda Síochána and nearly £5,000,000 for the Army. I refer, of course, to remuneration only."

I could not agree more with that statement. When I turn to what has happened in the meantime, I find the statement made this year:—

"I have also to take account of the recent decision regarding pay increases for civil servants and others whose remuneration is borne on public funds. It is not difficult to imagine the problem which faces the Government when it comes to deciding whether a general wage increase in outside occupations should be applied to public employees. Cognisance must be taken of a number of important points."

I do not know exactly what the important points are. The important thing now is to put those who are producing wealth into a position to provide the money. That should come first and, in starting my speech, I said that first things should come first. If that is done, I would be the last to say a word against giving an increase to the Civil Service.

I do not want anyone to think I wish to take in any way from the importance and efficiency of the Civil Service. Their ability, their integrity and their honesty are appreciated by all. However, as a dairy farmer, representing an area which is largely a dairying district, I would not be doing my duty if I did not refer to this. I think of the dairy farmers who must suffer a decrease of £1,000,000 this year in their income on milk alone.

There is a decrease on other headings as well. Barley and wheat are down and pigs almost robbed the farmers in my area for a few months this year. We are grateful to the Minister for Agriculture for the steps he took a month ago. It is to be regretted that he did not take those steps sooner and before such great losses were sustained by the pig feeders in the country. I know farmers who paid £6 a piece for bonhams and sold them at £10, after feeding them for three months. That should not have been allowed to happen. The Minister has rectified it and I hope that that rectification will be permanent.

Devil a bit he had to do with the rectification at all.

I am afraid, however, that certain pressures are coming on again, because this week 40 per cent. of the grade A bacon is to be retained at home in case the price of pigs goes too high. We had a similar situation under the Coalition Government. Pigs were at a low rate and farmers could not get rid of them. The then Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Dillon, opened the Border and within a week or two the price of pigs practically doubled.

A detailed discussion on the pig industry is a matter for the Estimate for Agriculture. The Deputy is in order in mentioning it in passing, but not in the details into which he is going.

I only want to express the hope and desire that what happened then will not happen again, if it is within the power of the Minister for Agriculture to prevent it. We expect that little bit of protection because agriculture requires a tremendous amount of capital and, if farmers go into certain lines of production, there must be some safeguards.

Last year, in the Budget statement, the Minister said:—

"It is to agriculture we must continue to look as the chief source of exports and the mainstay of our economy. The raising of agricultural production in volume and in value is therefore of vital importance."

I could not agree more.

"In broad terms, increased agricultural production depends primarily on the provision on a wider scale of expert technical advice and assistance."

Further on, the Minister said:—

"The Government are fully conscious of the vital necessity for increased production and, in respect of the present difficult financial position, are providing £250,000 to help farmers to dispose of a larger output at remunerative prices."

That sum was provided over 12 months ago to help the farmers to find markets abroad for our exportable surplus. I asked a question last week in relation to that provision. I asked how much of that money was spent. Imagine the surprise I got when I was told £850. Are we really in earnest at all? After 12 months, only £850 of that £250,000 has been spent in finding export markets, export markets so essential to the economy and development of the country. Are we serious? Why have we not appointed agents abroad? It is not the duty of the farmer, who produces the wealth of the nation, to go abroad and act as a salesman. It is the duty of the Government to appoint competent agents abroad, if there is no other body to undertake that work. Farmers are not salesmen and they cannot go out looking for markets. Money was provided for a specific purpose and it was the duty of the Government to appoint agents and ensure that our exportable surplus was sold to the best advantage in foreign markets.

I know from experience and from what I have been told by friends in England, Scotland and Wales that the markets are there and the people would be only too delighted to buy Irish produce—Irish butter, Irish bacon and Irish eggs—if only they knew where to get them. Our butter is exported in bulk—half cwts., cwts. and possibly in tons. Possibly it is mixed up with some other commodity. Our beautiful Irish butter is being sold possibly under the label of another country.

That is a matter for the Minister for Agriculture.

The money was provided. It has not been spent. I appreciated the provision of that money 12 months ago and I had high hopes that the money would be well spent and markets would be obtained abroad. I was amazed to see in the Press a few days ago that people in the Middle East cannot get a reply from our industrialists when they are looking for Irish goods. That is something that should be inquired into. It might be no harm to say a few words in passing about our entry into the Free Trade Area, if that ever comes about.

Will the Deputy relate it all to the Financial Motion before the House?

In the Financial Motion before the House, I believe sufficient money is being provided and I am glad that no further taxation has been imposed on the people. I appreciate that the Minister was alive to the fact that the people could not bear any further impost. Had there been any increases, we would have been faced with another flight from the country. Remember, so long as the flight continues, we are losing the youth of our nation. We may talk about exports and finance, but the greatest asset any country has is its population, especially its youth. It would be difficult to calculate the value of such an asset and very hard to compute what it costs to produce a young man or a young woman for export. If we lose at the rate of 50,000 per annum to the emigrant ship, that is something that must receive the careful consideration of whatever Government is in power.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 6th May, 1958.
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