asked the Minister for Local Government if he will state the statute or statutes, and the terms of such, which he considers operate to prevent the County Council of South Tipperary, having on the 7th June, 1960, passed resolutions appointing three rate collectors, from subsequently rescinding any or all of these resolutions (1) temporarily or (2) permanently.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Appointment of Tipperary Rate Collectors.
27.
I am advised that the resolutions passed by the Tipperary South Riding County Council at its meeting on the 7th June, 1960, appointing three rate collectors, were not capable of being rescinded. This position does not arise from the specific terms of any statute or statutes but from the nature of the function exercised by the Council in making the appointments. Having made the appointments the Council had discharged its function and could not divest itself of the obligations which, subject to my sanction, it had entered into in relation to the persons appointed.
Where can we find something in regard to the functions of the Council and the nature of those functions which would preclude a Council from rescinding a resolution?
Would the Deputy not ask the State Solicitor?
Does the Deputy know about the Mrs. Culhane case?
The Council was advised by its law agent. I, on my part, was advised by mine and both findings correspond.
Was the Council on the one hand, and the Minister on the other, so satisfied with regard to the legal advice given that the only information they could get was there was not any place in the world where they could find a statutory qualification in the matter?
I was reasonable in dealing with this matter. Had I not been so reasonable, these questions might not now be arising. Had I proceeded to do as I wanted to at the time the proposals came up, there being no knowledge as to why I should not do so, I should then have proceeded with the sanction were it not that I had told Deputy Mulcahy that in courtesy I was prepared to wait. I have now told him the reasons why I did not go the whole hog. I was in a position without question—and I do not think the Deputy is questioning the right of a Minister, to confirm these appointments at the first time of asking——
I am not reflecting on either the Minister's graciousness or his actions in this matter, but is he not aware that in answering questions in the House on this specific case he revealed to this House that the statutes, as they stand, dealing with councils appear to be such that if a council, at a particular meeting, passes a resolution making an appointment and sends on that resolution to the Minister—as, in this case, the council did—the Minister on the one hand and the council on the other have no powers to rescind the making of that appointment, although reasons of public interest might in various ways disclose themselves to suggest that the appointment ought not to be made? Therefore, I am asking the Minister if he will meet us in relation to the position as opened to the House by stating what are the statutory provisions, what is the statute and what are the terms of the statute, that would preclude a public body, having passed a resolution making an appointment and having sent it to the Minister, rescinding that appointment if there appeared to be public reasons dictating that action? I am dealing with a detached question now on the facts in relation to the alleged law that the Minister has put before the House and the position in which the House therefore is.
Might I assure the Deputy in relation to all his very grave fears that there is a perfectly straightforward method of dealing with what he fears could arise. It is this. The council having made its appointment, selected its people in the prescribed manner and having then submitted the name or names to the Department of Local Government, have ceased and have completed their function so far as that or those particular appointments are concerned. At that stage the Minister may accept by sanction or reject by disapproval the person or persons concerned and back they go to the council to start all over again. What fear the Deputy may then have that something should emerge after the council have made their selection which would make it incumbent on the council and the Minister not to appoint a particular candidate — what that something could be that the Deputy has in mind that could arise and that would not operate in the Minister's mind to refuse sanction and yet would bring about a reversal by the council of their earlier decision is something beyond me. I cannot visualise such a happening ever taking place. If it did and goes further, if, for instance, the council were wrong and the Minister was wrong and a year later it was found that they were in fact both wrong, there is a perfectly logical way of unloading the undesirable and that is by the manager then doing as he is required to do. He is required to furnish a certificate of suitability at the end of a year which is regarded as probationary. If, at the end of that year the manager operating his functions in his own way, does not certify that person, surely that is the last safeguard anybody would seek? If that were not sufficient, if subsequent to the final certificate on any rate collector, that rate collector proved unworthy, unsuitable or unsatisfactory in character or otherwise, he can be removed. Rate collectors have been removed and I have no doubt that unfortunately it will arise that certain of them may have to be removed in the future.
In relation to this statute bearing on the power of the county council, is there a deciding line which indicates that there are resolutions that county councils may pass and may not rescind and on the other hand resolutions which the county council may pass and may rescind?
Obviously, they cannot rescind something the full performance of which is not their duty in the first place.
I want to ask——
Question No. 28.
Deputy Mulcahy has asked a lot of Supplementaries.
I shall not allow any more Supplementaries.
I know it is only his dying kick. I am only asking one Supplementary Question. When the three Fine Gael merchants were not appointed, we will be all right.
It is the Christmas spirit.