andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether he was given any indication by the British Minister of Agriculture during his recent visit to the Republic concerning the likely date on which Britain proposes to seek admission to the Common Market; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Common Market.
2.
The answer to the Question is in the negative.
I would point out that the principal purpose of the recent visit to this country of the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food—which was arranged about six months ago— was not for official talks but so that he and Mrs. Soames could visit the Spring Show, the National Stud and some Irish farms.
Can I take it that the Taoiseach knows as much or as little after the visit of Mr. Soames as he did before, whether Britain—and, of course, ourselves—propose to enter the Common Market?
3.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether any proposals have been considered to meet or mitigate the consequences in unemployment when small or less efficient heavily-protected industries become insolvent as a result of the strong competition inherent in impending membership of the Common Market.
4.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether in view of the serious and widespread repercussions in industry, agriculture and employment which must follow membership by this country of the Common Market he will consider publishing a White Paper on the whole question of proposed membership and its probable repercussions.
5.
asked the Taoiseach whether he will provide in a White Paper for the information of Members an appraisal of the consequences in respect of industrial and agricultural production that would ensue on Ireland adhering to the Rome Treaty contemporaneously with Great Britain, if the terms of the Rome Treaty had to be accepted without amendment.
6.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether the Government intends to seek full membership or associate membership of the Common Market grouping; and, if so, when.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions numbers 3, 4, 5 and 6 together.
On a number of occasions over the past two years, I have spoken in the Dáil of the difficulties confronting us as a result of the failure of the negotiations in 1957 and 1958 for a European free trade area and the creation of two trade groupings, to neither of which we belong. It has been our hope that these difficulties might be solved in such a manner as would permit countries like ourselves, which could not readily accept the full obligations of either the Rome Treaty or the Stockholm Convention, to share in the benefits of freer trade in Europe.
For this reason, as Deputies are aware, we took an active part in the negotiations for the reorganisation of the OEEC and in the Committee on Trade Problems. This Committee has been unable to make significant progress. The negotiations for the reorganisation of the OEEC, however, concluded last December with the signature of a Convention establishing the OECD. This instrument was signed by all twenty countries concerned, including Ireland, and will shortly come before the Dáil for approval. It is intended that the OECD, when it comes into being, should be concerned with any outstanding problems to which the existence of the EEC and the EFTA gives rise for the members of the Organisation. It seems improbable, however, that a satisfactory solution for those problems will be found within the framework of the OECD in the near future. It is therefore realistic to assume that, if those countries which belong to neither the EEC nor the EFTA are to share in the benefits which these groupings may confer on their members, the approach must be by way of an arrangement with one or other grouping.
Deputies will be aware that, having regard to the pattern of our export trade, participation in the EFTA cannot be expected to offer substantial advantages to us. The EFTA countries comprise a total population of approximately ninety million, but Britain accounts for over half the total. The Stockholm Convention would not confer on us any additional rights in the British market. The other six members of the EFTA have not been important markets for us in the past and, while we must not of course neglect any market, it is doubtful whether the advantages we could hope to reap in those countries would justify acceptance of the obligations of the Stockholm Convention, particularly as agriculture is expressly excluded from its provisions.
Generally speaking, our best markets on the Continent have been in the Six and it is in those continental countries that we could expect to continue to make progress if we enjoyed reasonably favourable conditions of access. It is important to bear in mind in this connection that the Rome Treaty applies to the whole field of the economies of the member countries, including agriculture. At the same time the vital importance for our export trade of the British market makes it necessary that we avoid any action which might adversely affect our special trading relations with that country. If we were to join the Common Market while Britain remained outside we would be obliged, under the provisions of the Rome Treaty, to apply to British exports to this country the common external tariff of the Community. It is by reason of such considerations that I stated in the Dáil on 26th April, 1960, that "the best situation possibly for us would be association with the Common Market, if Britain were also a member of it, on a basis which satisfactorily took account of our economic circumstances." This is still the Government's appreciation of the position.
Until recently, the prospects of a link between Britain and the Common Market seemed slight. There have, however, been indications during the past few months that the British Government may be contemplating the possibility of entering the Common Market on certain conditions. It is the Government's view that, if Britain should take this step, we should consider establishing a link with the Common Market and endeavour to secure terms of membership or association which would satisfactorily take account of our economic circumstances.
It is my intention to ensure that the economic and social consequences of whatever course may be adopted will be assessed as closely as possible in the light of the conditions likely to apply. To make a detailed assessment on the basis of acceptance of the terms of the Rome Treaty without amendment or mitigation would, however, seem unrealistic and could be confusing. Deputies may be assured that an explanatory White Paper will be published as soon as the situation can be reasonably assessed and that the Government will afford the Dáil a full opportunity of discussing whatever decision may be proposed.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that the very lengthy nature of his own reply to these questions indicates the necessity for some fuller information for Deputies so that they may, on their own behalf, assess the situation which confronts us and whether there is any prospect of Ireland adhering to the Rome Treaty without amendment? Would it not assist Deputies to consider any amended arrangement if they had before them the picture of what association with the terms of the Rome Treaty, as at present stated, would mean? Secondly, could the Taoiseach tell us in regard to his reference to some form of association with the E.E.C. whether he has any information as to the fate of the proposed Greek association with the E.E.C. and especially whether it is true that a draft agreement of such an association has recently been abandoned?
Does the Taoiseach's reply, stripped of the padding, not mean that this country or the Government can move neither hand nor foot in connection with entry to the Common Market until the British Government makes its own final decision?
This Government will certainly not ignore the facts of our situation. Regarding the question asked by Deputy Dillon, while I understand the Deputy's desire to get all the information possible on this subject, he will appreciate my difficulty when he asks me to make guesses as to what is going to happen or to attempt an assessment of the consequences on various hypotheses. If the Deputy wishes to pursue his Supplementary Question regarding the terms of the Greek association with the community perhaps he might give me notice of a question on that subject. My understanding is that an agreement has been reached.
Would the Taoiseach not consider that I have specifically refrained from asking him to speculate and have asked him, in such White Paper as I have suggested, what would ensue on Ireland adhering to the Rome Treaty contemporaneously with Great Britain if the terms of the Rome Treaty had been accepted without amendment without in any way indicating this Government's intention in that regard? I suggest it would be of assistance to Deputies to get a concrete picture, at least, of what adherence to the Rome Treaty, without special conditions to suit our special circumstances, would involve. It would at least help us to assess what special conditions might be essential for an acceptable form of association with the Rome Treaty powers.
I assume the Deputy has a copy of the Rome Treaty; if not, I shall arrange for him to be supplied with it. He will appreciate that if matters develop as he appears to assume, the Government will be engaged in important negotiations and it would not be reasonable to expect us to disclose in advance all the considerations which we would have to keep in mind in the course of these negotiations.
I want to ask the Taoiseach whether, in view of the statements which have been attributed to British Ministers in the Press, he has had any unofficial indications from the British Government that Britain is likely at an early date to find some form of membership or associate-ship with the Common Market? Secondly, will the Taoiseach say whether it is to be understood from the terms of his reply today that the Government here contemplate that it may be possible to establish an associate-ship with the Common Market as distinct from formal and full membership of that body?
So far as statements by British Ministers are concerned, they have been very definitely to the effect that no decision has been made and, indeed, last week in the House of Commons, the British Prime Minister stated that satisfactory arrangements in respect of the interests of British agriculture and of fellow members of the British Commonwealth and of their partners in the European Free Trade Association are a pre-condition of any close association with the E.E.C.
Would the Taoiseach mind answering the second portion of the question? Does the Taoiseach contemplate that it may be possible to establish an associate-ship with the Common Market as distinct from full membership with full obligations?
Yes, the Rome Treaty provides for the possibility of membership or association. Clearly, no decision as to which course would be best in our interest should be taken until all the facts are known.
The Taoiseach has stated on numerous occasions that we cannot take any step independent of the British decision. I wonder if he has made it clear to the British Government that in fairness to our people and the considerations involved in regard to employment, we should be kept in touch with the rapidly changing developments in regard to the British decision to enter the Common Market and, if he is in constant touch with these changing developments, could the Taoiseach give us any indication, in weeks or months, as to when we are likely to get this White Paper?
I could not. Naturally, we are in touch with all the Governments concerned with this matter and have been, up to the present at any rate, receiving the information we sought to enable us to understand what is happening.
Would the Taoiseach consider the desirability of providing here, as a White Paper or in some other form, an appraisement of the consequences in respect of industry and agricultural production if we did adhere to the Rome Treaty without amendment?
No. I think it would be most unwise to attempt such an assessment on a purely hypothetical basis. It would be confusing to our own people and detrimental to the success of any negotiations which might be initiated.
Surely, if the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance consider it expedient to address speeches to the public at large dealing with the contingency, members of the House are entitled to ask the Government what the contingency is? Surely if they do not know the answer we are entitled to ask to be informed what the Rome Treaty would involve for us, without involving the Government in any way in regard to whatever policy it might adopt?
This is set out in the Rome Treaty itself.
The Taoiseach may think that is so but it is not so; otherwise, I would not ask for an appraisement.
Is it not a fact that if we are to find out when we are going to join the Common Market, we should keep our eyes on the British morning papers?
The Deputy and the House are well aware that 75 per cent. of our exports go to Britain and get into Britain tariff free because of the trade agreements we have with that country. It would be foolish for us to create a situation which might bring those agreements to an end, and that tariff-free trade to an end, merely on the offchance of something that might happpen.
(Interruptions)
There is a conversion for you.
Are you putting all your eggs in one basket?
Might I ask the Taoiseach, if anything arises in this important matter, if he will inform the House instead of going up and down the country to dinners and making speeches at them?
I have already quoted here from the very full statement of Government policy on this matter which I made in this House in April, 1960. Deputies should try to keep in touch with what is going on in the House; if they did, they would have heard the statement by the Minister for Finance on this subject at the conclusion of the Budget debate.
Deputies are constantly being refused information in this House by the Taoiseach and his colleagues.