Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 Dec 1966

Vol. 226 No. 4

Institute for Advanced Studies (Amendment) Bill, 1966: Second and Subsequent Stages.

Minister for Education (Mr. O'Malley)

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

The Institute for Advanced Studies was established under the Institute for Advanced Studies Act, 1940. Section 19 (1) of that Act states that "it shall be the duty of the Council as soon as conveniently may be after the passing of this Act, to prepare and submit to the Minister a scheme for the granting of pensions, gratuities, or other allowances on retirement to such Senior Professors and permanent whole-time members of the academic staff of the several Constituent Schools, and to such permanent whole-time officers of the Institute as the Council, with the approval of the Minister and the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, may determine".

Such a scheme was established by the Council and has been in operation since 1947. This scheme does not, however, provide for the granting of pensions to the widows of professors and other permanent whole-time officers of the academic staff and the existing provisions of the Act of 1940 do not permit of the amendment of the scheme to allow of such provision being made.

Superannuation schemes applicable to academic staffs in many universities, including the Colleges of the National University and Trinity College make provision for the granting of pensions to widows of deceased members of the staff. The Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies has accordingly found itself in the position of experiencing difficulty in attracting certain members to the staff of the Institute because of this lack of comparable financial cover for their families. In this respect accordingly the desirable mobility of staff between the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies and other institutions of higher learning could be significantly restricted.

A request has been made to me that section 19 (3) of the Act of 1940 should be amended in such a way as would enable the Council of the Institute to provide in the superannuation scheme for the granting of pensions to widows of deceased members of the permanent wholetime staff. The purpose of the present Bill is to amend the Act accordingly.

The main conditions of the scheme which the Council of the Institute proposes to introduce to allow of the payment of pensions to the wives of deceased members are as follows:

(a) a contribution towards the cost of the pensions would be made by male members of the academic staff in pensionable posts. The amount of this contribution would be 1? per cent of salary per annum in the case of a junior member of the staff, 1¾ per cent in the case of the ordinary professor and 2 per cent in the case of the senior professor;

(b) to be eligible for a pension under the scheme a widow must have been married to the contributor before he retired from the Institute's service;

(c) the amount of the pension would be one-third of the pension payable to the husband if at the date of his death he were already in receipt of a pension from the Institute, or one-third of the pension which would have been payable to him had he retired on pension on the grounds of ill-health at the date of his death while in the service of the Institute;

(d) payment of the pension would cease on the death or re-marriage of the recipient;

(e) a pension would not be payable unless at least ten years' contributions had been paid by or in respect of the contributor.

I consider that the measure is required to bring conditions of service for the academic staff of the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies into line with those obtaining generally in Institutes of similar standing and I recommend the Bill to the Dáil for adoption as a non-controversial issue.

Mr. Lindsay

We accept this measure as non-controversial. In fact we welcome the provision for widows of professional people in the Institute and would welcome also an extension of the idea to other areas. Possibly, we might discuss this at a later time. We are aware of the significant restriction that would be placed on the Institute if this scheme were not available to incoming members and, consequently, to their widows.

There is one matter about which I should like to inquire from the Minister. It is in relation to past members of the staff of the Institute. Has anyone died there? I understand that at least one widow of a professor is in poor circumstances. Will this scheme cover such a case? On the face of it, it does not look to me as if it will. Would the Minister accept an amendment to deal with the position of an existing widow? Beyond that, we do not regard this as controversial in any way.

Mr. Corish

We do not object to this measure either. I believe such a provision for widows is highly desirable. I am not aware that this is widespread in the Civil Service, local authority service and the Government service generally. Such a scheme for the provision of widows ought to be extended. I know the people for whom the Minister has responsibility may not be many, but this measure he has introduced ought to be copied by other Ministers in respect of their employees to ensure that the widows will not be cut off on the death of the husband.

Mr. Dillon

I declare a vicarious interest in this Bill in that my brother is a senior professor of the Institute. I want to recommend for the Minister's consideration the matter mentioned by Deputy Lindsay. I understand that prior to the introduction of this Bill, one of the senior professors of the Institute—I think he was a professor of mathematics or cosmic physics or some subject related to that branch of the Institute's work—died leaving his widow in straitened circumstances. As it would appear now that the Minister agrees with the view that it is desirable on all grounds that the terms of service in the Institute should be brought into line with those obtaining in academic institutions both here and in the world at large, it seems rather a hardship if owing to the timing of this legislation, there should be one widow unprovided for.

I do not underestimate the Minister's problem in dealing ad hoc with a difficulty of this kind. I fully appreciate the thicket of precedents which he may apprehend growing up about him if a retrospective element were introduced into a scheme of this character. On the other hand, I always recall the words of the late Deputy Alfie Byrne advising a young Deputy starting his political career in this House. One of the pieces of advice he gave was that among those who would approach the young Deputy for help there would be widows: “Always give them a kindly answer, however difficult their request, because when they lost their breadwinner they lost enough to entitle them at least to a sympathetic hearing.” Recalling the memory of that distinguished colleague, I venture to suggest to the Minister that on that ground he might find a way to meet exceptional circumstances by departing from the rule against retrospection to cover this particular case. If it would encourage him, I may tell him I was warned when I was Minister for Agriculture against the breaching of my own regulations which would be involved by making concessions to a widow. I said: “Rules were made to be broken in suitable cases.” I broke my own rules and I provided for the widow. Some day perhaps, should the Minister be interested, I will give him further particulars of that case. It might embolden him to take his courage in his hands in this particular dilemma.

Mr. O'Malley

I am grateful to Deputy Lindsay, Deputy Corish and Deputy Dillon for the co-operative way in which they have received this measure. I think the matter mentioned by Deputy Lindsay is the same as that which Deputy Dillon had in mind. Yesterday afternoon Deputy Dillon very graciously communicated with me his anxiety with regard to the question of a widow of a professor of the Institute. This professor, who died suddenly, spent four years and 11 months as a professor with the Institute. The House will note that this Bill requires ten years service plus contributions. Therefore, even if the deceased professor had a full five years service, his widow would have been entitled to a gratuity but she would not have been entitled to a pension. I can understand the point made by Deputy Dillon. I inquired into this case immediately he got in touch with me yesterday. I have looked into the matter in as sympathetic a light as I possibly could. I can assure the Deputy that, were it feasible, I would have done something for the widow of this estimable gentleman, who rendered such excellent service to the country in the past. That is all I have to say.

Mr. Lindsay

Would it be possible to take account of the deceased's services in whatever sphere he left to join the Institute?

Mr. O'Malley

I do not think that is feasible.

Mr. Lindsay

If he had remained in his former sphere, would he have been entitled to a pension?

Mr. Dillon

I feel, as I am sure Deputy Lindsay feels, that the Minister has approached this matter in a sympathetic way and would be anxious to find a way around it.

Mr. Lindsay

Yes.

Mr. Dillon

It is clear from the terms of the scheme that, even if the professor had lived five years in the service of the Institute, he would not have been entitled to a pension under the terms of the scheme proposed but to a gratuity. I should be content if the Minister said he would look sympathetically into the question with the Board of the Institute to determine whether it were possible to make some ex gratia payment. I do not think we can ask him to do the impossible. I see his difficulty. Possibly, in discussion with the Board, a way might be found. If it cannot be, then it cannot be.

Mr. O'Malley

Under this Bill, I could not. I have to be straight and say that I could not hold out any hope under this. Indeed, the Institute itself would not be empowered to make an ex gratia payment, I understand, without legislation. Nevertheless, I shall see if there are any other channels and I shall communicate with the interested Deputies.

Question agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.