When I reported progress last Thursday, I was referring to the situation which faces the Minister for Labour when there are throughout the country, in rural areas and country towns, large numbers on the labour exchanges who are, and have been, seeking work for quite a long time. I asked the Minister to let the House know what plans or proposals he has to deal with this situation. I mentioned that this was an increasing number so far as rural areas were concerned. In larger centres of population and industry, complaints are always made in respect of a matter such as this. I cannot understand how it is that there is this disparity between the country towns which have industry and those which have not. This situation has been highlighted at the present time— indeed, even to-day—in the agricultural sector because an increasing number of people are seeking work other than in agriculture which is not able to maintain them. This is a problem which the Minister must tackle. We see it against the background of the larger industrial areas but it is becoming more apparent that it is a much larger problem than that.
In the past day or two, the Minister for Transport and Power spoke of the conditions which he feels will create a problem for the national transport company. The attempt to palm off responsibility on either one or other section for a matter such as this is simply not facing up to reality. It must be recognised that the situation which is developing in the country does not stem merely from present conditions but has a background in Government action deliberately taken a couple of years ago in the political situation then existing. There is not much use in saying that this is the responsibility of labour or of management. The Government must bear some responsibility in this matter. When making statements in regard to the economy, Ministers should have regard to what happened in the recent past which was a contributing factor.
The Minister intends to bring a scheme before the Dáil in regard to redundancy payments. I understand that negotiations have been taking place but have not reached the stage of agreement, not to speak of finality. Does the Minister intend, in the intervening period, to make the legislation retrospective in regard to people who will lose employment between now and then? This will certainly agitate the minds of people particularly if there is any basis for the suggestion that there is a danger, through force of economic circumstances in industry or agriculture or in relation to our entry into the EEC, that employment may be lost.
The placement service seems to apply to people who are drawing unemployment benefit or unemployment assistance. There is great need for an extension of the placement service. It is perhaps more necessary outside the larger centres of population. In the larger centres of population, the larger industries are located. There is an industrial estate in Dublin and at Shannon. It is proposed to have an industrial estate in Waterford and Galway, and possibly one at Limerick also, but on that I am not quite clear. Apart from those areas, there are people in the country who have failed to find employment and there will be an increasing number of young people coming forward from the schools so that the necessity for an effective placement service will be very great.
I wonder what the Minister hopes to achieve through the services of an industrial psychologist? Perhaps he can tell us whether the employment exchanges are listing the skills of people registered there and what this registration shows. Has he any idea, as a result of information from these exchanges on the skills of those registering, of the magnitude of the problem to be faced? Would it be possible, in the rural parts, to use the talents and capabilities of the people there? Deputy M. O'Leary referred to an industry and mentioned that the workers there had acquired a skill and that, with the turn of events, these people will suffer hardship or perhaps even dispersal from where they now live. Perhaps the Minister would avail of the services of the IDA and other Government agencies in this connection, bearing in mind, in particular, the idea of locating small industry, based on the native products of the place, in country towns or areas contiguous to them. It might be possible to imitate the example of Cómhlucht Siúicre Éireann who proposed the setting up of industries in various parts of the country to deal with the processing of fruits and vegetables.
We seem to be quite prepared to make grants available to non-nationals for the establishment of industry within the country but unwilling to give grants to nationals for the promotion of industry here. We should contemplate the issue of industrial grants to nationals who are prepared to set up the smaller type of industry in rural parts which may provide the answer to some of our problems.
When one talks of employment and unemployment, one generally thinks in terms of the figures on the unemployment register each week. The important thing to remember is that for any small community in the country the fact that there are nine or ten wage earners there means quite a bit to the economy of the area. I was glad to hear Deputy Andrews saying last week that the important thing at the present time for the persons concerned is security of employment. If a person can be sure that his employment will continue and that he will not find himself faced with a week's notice, that means a great deal at local level and eventually at national level. That is one feature that should be stressed when the Minister is speaking to the Minister for Industry and Commerce, who, I suppose will have responsibility in regard to the question of smaller industries. The provision of secure employment should be stressed as a measure of alleviation for those seeking employment in the smaller towns and villages.
The situation has been aggravated, as the statistics show, by the fact that the building industry, particularly in rural areas, in regard to local authority housing, and so on, has slumped and a number of persons who used to obtain employment on that kind of work now find themselves seeking such work in vain. This is a matter over which they have no control. The answer would seem to be the location of more industry, even of the smaller type, in these areas and it would be well worth while making the effort.
The second part of the Minister's statement dealt with contemplated legislation. I regret that the Minister found himself in the position that he had to give warning of a type of legislation which he might find himself having to bring before the House for enactment. I said here on the last occasion the Estimate was being discussed that we can never legislate for industrial harmony. No matter how much we may discuss the matter here, the fact remains that we will never be able to do that. To take the old phrase and tear it about a bit: you may take the horse to the water but you cannot make him drink; it is not much use taking the horse to the water and sticking his head in it because in that case all you will do is to drown him.
We must accept the fact that the workingman has got to where he is today either by the use or the threatened use of the strike weapon. Inevitably he will continue to use strike action as his most potent weapon. It is right that management and unions should haggle over wages or the establishment of industry or the conditions that will apply. I do not see anything wrong with that. That such haggling should occur at intervals is a healthy sign. It is not right that the haggling should result in the necessity for strike action. On the last occasion I suggested that if we could arrive at a situation where there was arbitration and both sides, before going to arbitration, would enunicate their differences and lay down maximum concessions and minimum demands, it would be possible to reach the situation, perhaps, where a sitting of the Labour Court would resolve the differences.
I was rather alarmed on reading Deputy M. O'Leary's contribution last week by the suggestion that where the Labour Court had arrived at a conclusion and issued a recommendation, that would be regarded more or less as a jumping-off point for subsequent negotiations as a result of which a solution would be arrived at.
