This is a Supplementary Estimate and, as such, we must agree to give it to the Minister, but there are a few matters I should like to mention in the House. Looking at the Estimate, we find that one-fifth of the amount voted is for civilians attached to the various units. In other words, civilians attached to the Department of Defence cost us one-fifth of the amount which we pay to the Permanent Defence Forces. It is time we had a fresh look at this question of defence. There are superfluous civil servants attached to the Department of Defence. I was too young to take an active interest in this question, but I understand that during the Civil War when the army was at its numerical peak, four quartermasters, four pay officers, paid the entire Army. Whether that be right or wrong, I understand there is some truth in it. Four regular officers of the Army were able to pay the entire Army which was then on active service.
We have a multiplicity of civil servants attached to the Department of Defence. First of all, the amounts of the Estimates are gone through with a fine comb by the Army itself. It requisitions what is absolutely essential. Then again the civil servants attached to the Department go through the Estimates with a fine comb. Then they are passed on to the Department of Finance which again scrutinises them. I think that is all overdone. We should cut out the civil servants in the Department and leave it entirely to the qualified personnel in the Army to prepare their own Estimates and to make their own requisitions direct to the Department. In doing that, we would save the country considerable sums.
I often thought that Defence does not warrant a Minister, and that the Departments of Defence and Justice could very well be amalgamated. After all, both those Departments look after the internal security of the country. If we had a highly mobile striking force in the Army, limited to a certain age group, and if these men when they left the Army could be recruited into the Garda, that would be a considerable saving for the country. During their time in the Army, they could be trained, as many of them are, in police duties. We already have a highly efficient military police force, and there is no reason why their training could not be extended to the rest of the Army personnel. In that way we would have a ready recruiting ground for the Garda in the Army. In the event of an emergency, these trained men in the Garda could automatically be switched back to the Army as trained NCOs who could train an expanding army. We would have a very good auxiliary force in the Garda to supplement the Army in case of emergency.
One of the problems which worries the personnel of our Army is what they will do when they secure their discharge. We recognise that a soldier to be fit for active service must be comparatively young. After that, so far as active service is concerned, he is redundant. I understand that there is no pension available for Army personnel, other than long-term serving soldiers. If the Army personnel were aware that the Garda force was available to them, I think we would get an equally good type of recruit in the Army. Members of the FBI in America become redundant when they reach the age of 32 or 33 years. They are then automatically absorbed into the State police forces in the various States of the US. They know that when their short term of service in the FBI expires, there is a ready and secure occupation for them in the police forces of the States. I think our Army would be more content if they knew that when their short period of service had expired, and when they had become efficient and proficient in the use of modern arms, they could automatically be switched to the Garda.
The standard of our commissioned officers is very high. It is second to none, in my opinion. I think our Military College should become a constituent of National University. The university should be available to our Army personnel to acquire a degree or a profession, as the case may be, to fit them for after life when their short term service has expired. I understand that in other armies the commissioned ranks are given the opportunity of procuring degrees in whatever faculties they wish, during their term of service. This is something the Minister might look into to see if the Military College could be made a constituent of the university and to have facilities given to the cadets and commissioned Army personnel to become graduates of, shall I say, one or other of our universities.
It is very essential that we should have a small but highly trained mobile combat force in this country and that they should be located in some small area, such as the Curragh, where they could devote all their time to combat training. After all, we do not want a big army but we want a highly efficient mobile, well trained combat force and we would require them situate in some central position, such as the Curragh.
We have here in the city of Dublin a number of derelict barracks where personnel are engaged doing guard, fatigue and store work. They have no time for combat training; there is not a sufficient number of them for combat training. It would be a very good thing if those derelict or unoccupied barracks, barracks in which there is merely caretaker personnel, were handed over to the corporation. By so doing, we would give the corporation very badly needed parking space in the city of Dublin, space in which multi-storey flats could be built. At the same time, I do not think we would detract in any way from the efficiency of the Army. I would close every barracks in the city of Dublin with one exception, McKee. If we had a small number of highly trained troops stationed in McKee for emergency duty in the city and for ceremonial duties, it would suffice, and thus make valuable sites available to Dublin Corporation, which is crying out for such sites. It would be a very good thing indeed if those sites could be made available and our troops concentrated in a small area, such as the Curragh, which is highly suitable for such a mobile force.
I should not allow the occasion to pass without paying tribute to our troops abroad. We are all very proud of them indeed, and we are all very glad the Minister saw fit to visit them and pay a tribute to them by inspecting them on the spot and telling them how proud the Irish nation are of them. They deserve the credit and the thanks of the nation, not only for their work in Cyprus, but also for their work in the Congo.
I should like to mention the good work being done by our Equitation School. I do not notice any mention in the Supplementary Estimate of moneys for the school. I hope it is not being overlooked, and I hope that, for the sake of a few extra hundred pounds, we are procuring the best animals and training the best personnel. The services of cadets who have some experience in equitation, and who would be an asset to the Equitation School, and to the military jumping team when they enter the service, should be availed of. A few scholarships or a few reserve positions could be allocated to such men, and it would be a very good thing because, despite the good work Bord Fáilte are doing for the country, our Equitation School is doing equally good work.
Those are a few thoughts which struck me during the course of considering this Supplementary Estimate, which we will certainly give the Minister but perhaps, between now and whenever he is introducing the Estimate for the coming year, he might consider these matters, which would be of advantage to the nation, which might be of advantage to the corporation but certainly would be of advantage to the taxpayer.
