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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 20 Nov 1968

Vol. 237 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 4: Wholesale Tax (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
(1) That, with effect as on and from the 1st day of January, 1969, wholesale tax imposed by section 2 of the Finance (No. 2) Act, 1966 (No. 22 of 1966), shall be charged, levied and paid at the rate of ten per cent in lieu of the rate of five per cent specified in sections 7 (1) and 11 (1) of that Act.
(2) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).
— (The Taoiseach.)

Sir, the workers of this city suffered another savage blow on their way home from work this evening when they saw this headline: "Huge Bus Fare Increases" in what at any rate used to be the official organ of the Government Party and, while this does not fall strictly within the terms of the Financial Resolution we are discussing, nonetheless it does represent a further savage increase in the cost of the living for hundreds of thousands of men and indeed women who are already struggling to live at subsistence level on inadequate wages which have been rendered still more inadequate by the provisions set out in the Financial Resolution which it is our business to consider.

The proposals for increased taxes have been touched upon in the course of this debate, and I say touched upon advisedly because I have studied the Official Report of the Debates and it seems to me that so far as the Government side is concerned at any rate their spokesmen have been permitted to deal in depth and indeed in falsehood with every subject under the sun except matters strictly relevant to the Financial Resolution, but where they have been touched upon it has been made perfectly clear that this supplementary Budget has come about as a result of gross inefficiency on the part of the Government and gross mismanagement of the affairs of the nation during the comparatively few months that have gone by since the annual Budget was introduced earlier this year.

While the referendum has been referred to ad nauseam and the cost of the referendum and the time wasted by the House and through the country and by the public officials in preparation for the referendum and in the carrying out of the multifarious duties that were contingent upon the referendum, while these things have been referred to almost to the point where people may very well have become sick of the mention of the referendum, it nonetheless remains true that most of the Government time which should have been devoted, had it been properly applied, to the affairs of the country, to seeing that the finances and the budgetary situation of the country were in proper shape, was in fact misapplied in a political direction in trying to create a situation for themselves by means of the referendum whereby they could be in office for the rest of all time or as near as possible to that. So that this supplementary Budget which we are dealing with is the result of the Government's folly, nothing more and nothing less.

Like many others I am no expert in the analysis of figures and like perhaps not quite so many others I do not pretend to be an expert in the analysis of figures, yet I am puzzled to know what exactly is meant by the detail in the statement with which we were supplied in connection with this Budget which sets out as an allowance for errors of estimation an amount of £4 million: £4 million for errors of estimation and we are told that these moneys which are being raised by this Budget are needed to carry the country through, presumably to next Budget time. Is it therefore to be taken that the Government are so inept and uncertain of themselves that they cannot calculate with any degree of accuracy nearer than £4 million how much it is going to take to run the affairs of the nation for the few remaining months that are left until the time of the next annual Budget? It would appear so, but it is obvious also, of course, from the figures with which we have been supplied that the Government, by means of these penal taxes which impose such great hardship as invariably they do upon those least able to bear them, are trying to make a profit from the situation and to arrive at the time for the presentation of the next Budget with money in hand so that they will be able to make some effort at the traditional trick of bribing the electorate on a short-term basis to bestow once more its favour upon them.

Such a pursuit by this Government is in my view a complete and utter fatuity because, whatever else may be said of them, I think the bulk of the members of the Fianna Fáil Party do accept in their hearts that the country has come to a conclusion about them as a Party and the conclusion is that the Fianna Fáil Party has had it and that the time has come for a change. This has been brought about by the arrival on the electoral scene of huge numbers of young people, uninfluenced and uninhibited by things past. We have had here in the course of the past fortnight the spectacle of efforts being made to revive animosities and enmities which had their beginnings in events of 50 years ago. It is a grotesque performance to hear young men, who could not have reached the use of such little reason as they eventually achieved and who must have been of tender infant years at the time of these events, talking about them as if they were matters of current concern among the people. The people are sick to the back teeth of that kind of performance. I suppose it was good enough during the Thirties to inflame passions and work up emotions when there was not the great development of enlightenment such as is a phenomenon of the present day and which has come about as a result of the spread, to some extent, of education but more, I think, as a result of the development of news media, particularly television.

Young people — when I say young people I mean those of 40 years or less — are too harried and worried by the pursuit of the means of livelihood to be impressed by, let us say, the performance of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, who developed a middle-aged republicanism recently something to all intents and purposes that had been lying dormant in him over a long period. Nobody will be persuaded that that effort and the extravagant claims he made for the Fianna Fáil Party in relation to republicanism were anything more than a gimmick to deflect people's minds from the essentials of Government administration and the very important questions of the standard of living of the people and the future, the housing situation, social services, the education and needs of children and the many other things which make up the realities rather than the illusions of life in Ireland today.

Going through the somewhat dispiriting debates of last week and the week before in search of some enlightenment as to what the Government propose to do for the people I was struck by one of the most unnecessary exercises that has ever been carried out in this House and, also, I would think, one of the meanest. The Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries followed by another Fianna Fáil Deputy, sought to rush to the defence, unnecessarily, of the ushers and the staff of the House who, as far as I can discover, were not in any sense under attack from any quarter. Statements were made here in the context of the discussion on these resolutions to the effect that it would appear that entry to Leinster House seemed to be freely available to certain gentry who could parade the corridors at will in search of whatever peculiar business they have, or had, without let or hindrance; but at no time was it suggested, as far as I can discover in the debates, that the staff of the House had any responsibility in this matter.

Do we not all know very well what happens — that a Minister or a Deputy, but particularly a Minister, may leave instructions, which must be accepted by the staff, for the admissions of any person or persons and that these people can make their way about Leinster House? The staff are in no way responsible and it was not suggested by anybody that they were. Nonetheless, in an effort to deflect the political attack made upon the Government, the Minister did not spare even the staff. He dragged them into it as much as to say that the Opposition were striking at the staff of the House whereas, in fact, nothing of the kind occurred. That sort of thing is to be deplored. People should stand up and take their medicine and make their own defence without having to reach out for such ridiculously transparent defences as the Minister and the other Deputy I have mentioned made use of on that occasion. It was time wasting and unnecessary but I suppose it did, in a sort of way, light up the paucity of ideas which has come upon the Government Party and particularly it has demonstrated the completely numbing effect which the result of the referendum has had on that Party.

It seems to me that posing as they do, as the Iron Chancellors who are unafraid of unpopularity and who will proceed to impose on the nation the most rigorous economic regulations in regard to taxation in the interests of the nation, the Government are to some extent motivated by the knowledge that, no matter what they do, they are on their way out. While, I suppose it would be reasonable to deduce that they will put the longest possible time between the referendum results and the date of the next election, it would also seem that they are anxious to launch whatever little lifeboats they can find to save as many survivors as possible from the political seas which are about to engulf them.

Of course, the Fianna Fáil Party must expect to be engulfed because for many years they have been getting farther and farther still away from contact with the very people upon whom they could once lean with such assurance for support. Last night I had the privilege and honour of being present at a function where there was inaugurated the National Productivity Year and we heard a very intelligent and inspiring address from His Eminence, the Cardinal. We also had an address by the Taoiseach, at the end of which he used a quotation which he said was from an old song, but which seemed to me to be more in the nature of a Freudian slip than anything else. The old song he quoted was: "It is time we were moving; it is time we passed on."— most apt words I should imagine for a gentleman in his peculiar situation at the present time. The Taoiseach is very much a hazard man. Indeed, looking around at some of his own supporters, the Taoiseach might very well repeat the words of Wellington when he looked at his regiment and remarked: "I do not know what they will do to the enemy, but they terrify me".

Deputy Dunne would terrify no one.

I am afraid that Deputy Corry has missed the point.

There is no terror on the other side, anyway.

Productivity is something which I suppose would be out of order in this debate if what we have seen earlier in the evening is to be taken as a lead, but reading through the speeches I notice that there has been a great deal of confusion about what actually is allowable in this debate. I wish to make the claim that in this debate, as in every other Budget debate, practically anything goes. In proof of that I would refer to the Taoiseach's speech in introducing the supplementary Budget, as reported at column 2058 of volume 236 of the Dáil Debates, dated 5th November:

The estimates of current expenditure in 1969-70 which we have obtained from the Department point to an inevitable increase far exceeding any hope of revenue buoyancy and there is no doubt whatever of the need for every penny of the extra revenue now being raised to meet the extra expenditure to be faced next year under existing commitments and policies. To illustrate the magnitude of this extra noncapital expenditure, I may quote some of the increases over the current year which are looming up— over £9 million on Central Fund services——

The Central Fund services cover a very wide field. The Taoiseach continued:

——as much as £8 million for agriculture,

Agriculture is a pretty wide-acred field. Quoting further from the Taoiseach's speech:

£5½ million for education, £2½ for social welfare and over £2 million for health.

I take it that it will be in order and acceptable, and it ought to be, that reference, at least to matters which fall under these headings, may be discussed in the course of this debate. It seems to me, from reading the debates — I did not have the opportunity of that inestimable pleasure of coming in and listening to my colleagues last week and the week before but some of them read very well, especially Deputy Corry — that Government speakers were allowed to talk about practically anything but when other Members of the House took up the same subjects, I regret to observe, that they did not seem to be accorded the same degree of latitude.

This may have been due to a combination of circumstances over which the Chair had no control. I know that the Chair has a difficult job to do and I appreciate that it is not easy to maintain order in this House at all times but, nonetheless, the aim should be that there would be tolerance for everybody, otherwise the democratic nature of the establishment would lose its character. I hope, however, that whatever I have to say will fall within the Rules of Order, certainly within the very wide terms of reference set out in the Taoiseach's speech.

For instance, one of the things mentioned last week was the thoughts of Mao Tse Tsung which, according to a Fianna Fáil Deputy, have been circulating in the Ballyfermot area and into which he reads the probability of the destruction of our civilisation and a conspiracy, which, if let grow, would bring about disaster for the State. I spend a lot of my time in Ballyfermot — never a week goes by but I am there with the people of Ballyfermot — but I have yet to meet anybody carrying the little red book of Mao. However, I have met a lot of people, and these in increasing numbers during the last few months, who are carrying other kinds of documents, notably what they call their labour exchange cards which is proof that they are signing on as unemployed at the labour exchange. This Government, by reason of their policies and their neglect of the urgent business of the nation and because of their concentration on their own selfish Party political future and the preservation of their privileged status, by reason of their connivance in the referendum and general neglect of the important things which they are charged with doing, have permitted a situation to arise in which unemployment is becoming an ever-increasing evil in this town.

Not a week goes by but I have representations from several of my constituents, even within the district of Ballyfermot — the biggest working class district in the country with almost 40,000 people living there. These people come to me — a lot of them married — and they ask if I could suggest where they might get a job because they say, if they cannot get work, there is nothing for it but to clear off to England. It is not the thoughts of Mao that are worrying these people but where they will get work and a decent week's wages and how they are going to try to carry on and meet the ever-increasing cost of living which is such a feature of the rake's progress of this administration.

I have referred to the fares increase. My God, what a piece of news for the average Dublin working-man. In the area of which I speak, most of the people are bus travellers, bus users. Most of them probably have to take two buses, one to bring them into town and then another to take them to their place of work and they must also take two buses for the return journey. To them, it can mean anything from 25/to 35/- a week. That is a conservative estimate in relation to the proposal for a minimum fare of 6d. This evening, we see announced in this newspaper a sanction for a further 20 per cent by the Minister for Transport and Power, a colleague of the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Lalor, who is now present.

25 per cent.

Some of these evening papers give varying accounts. However, an increase of 20 to 25 per cent — that is what they say — has been sanctioned by the Minister and that means that they have to find that money. Already, the people have had to pay the increases which come about as a result of the Budget. God knows, they are savage enough and bad enough. There is the turnover tax, the concealed, hidden, sneaking increase, which is very substantial. Five per cent means one-twentieth. As somebody pointed out to me, in a gallon of petrol, this wholesale tax is an additional 3d——

Oh, yes: so I am informed.

(Dublin): It does not apply.

Of course, it does. The Deputy will arrive at about lunchtime tomorrow. He can then explain the matter in detail.

The price of petrol in itself is mainly tax. Therefore the Deputy cannot say that ten per cent wholesale tax will be applied to the 6/-. It does not make sense.

Do you say, then, that any garage which charges this amount is acting illegally?

Any garage that charges 3d wholesale tax is acting illegally.

That is on the record.

It is on the record, I hope.

Turnover tax is applied on tax.

It does not apply to excise at all.

(Dublin): It does not apply where there is duty or excise.

Wholesale tax does not——

I know that. In any event, coming on top of these impositions — the impositions invariably are made on the bulk of the people who cannot afford them — we get this proposal about bus fares. I really think, speaking apart from political considerations, that it is nothing less than a damned scandal that the bus fares of the people living in these areas should be increased in this fashion or that the Minister should sanction such a proposal. There must be some other method and some other method should have been found.

You see, the Dublin system makes a profit. The Dublin bus system always did make a profit. Possibly it was the only part of CIE which did operate at a profit, and continued to do so, and yet the impost is made on it once more. Once more, the screw is turned on the Dublin system. The thing is completely and utterly indefensible. I have not the slightest doubt but that the people concerned must be filled with utter disgust, even those who have been misled into supporting Fianna Fáil on occasion. They must be filled with despair at this kind of thing. I was speaking to a woman this evening who has to work for her living. She said: "My God, this is desperate. Every day you pick up the paper, there is another increase in the cost of living". It is true, is it not? Hardly a day goes by but we read of some increases in something or other. If it is not taxation, it is something like this — and it is invariably something about which the Government should take steps, something in which the Government are concerned.

The Government say these taxes must be levied now and these Financial Resolutions implemented. We say that the need for them has been created by the Government's own selfish policy of neglecting the affairs of the country — by wasting the time of the nation on a completely idle exercise about which they were advised, informed, abjured and criticised long before they even brought it to the Floor of the House — when they went and lost the referendum. It could not be said that they had not been told they would lose it. They must have been told many times by their own people they would lose. Yet, because of the influence wielded by one or two characters in the Cabinet — this is the kind of Cabinet we have that can be brought to heel because of one or two dictators in it — the country was put to this ridiculous expense. The affairs of the country were neglected. Ministers were off in other directions trying to chase votes.

Here we have another Budget and, on top of that, the Government have the cheek to ask us to accept a provision for errors in estimation of £4 million. Is it suggested we have people not able to do even simple arithmetic? £4 million for errors in estimation! The other explanation for that figure, of course, is that the Government are plotting to have something in hand so as to make, maybe, the usual miserable, lousy gesture to the old aged category of people: that is the only way to describe it.

I heard Deputy Seán Moore speak here this evening. He gave expression to one sentiment with which I find myself in agreement. He said that this generation will probably be judged, historically speaking, by what it did for the old aged, the disabled and the sick. He went on to qualify it, of course, by saying — I do not want to question his sincerity because I know he probably believes what he is saying but it is completely contrary to the facts in this case — that the record of this Government in the matter of such treatment is proud — something to that effect — but the opposite is the truth. The old aged people and the disabled and the sick, particularly the old aged and the disabled, stand out as being treated in the grossest possible fashion. I often think that the real crudity of politics is shown by the lack of humanity which has become, as it were, a symptom of Irish politics. It is a growing symptom of the disease of Irish politics, the lack of humanity for people exemplified by the callous attitude of the Government Party towards the aged and the sick——

The Deputy is getting mixed up. You are the people who gave 2/6d in three years. We gave 17/6d in three years.

I will deal with that. If the Parliamentary Secretary will be patient I have many interesting points to deal with. I was referring to the callousness of the Government in giving a few shillings to these people and invariably it is at some distant date and you can be fairly sure that many of the old people who read about the increases will not be there to receive them. It seems to me that that cynical attitude so typified in its essential nature by Fianna Fáil particularly in the last ten years, perhaps, longer, with the uprise of a more careerist type, less dedicated to ideals than to self-advancement, is due to the fact that old age pensioners number so few as a political force compared with others who number so many. These are the things which are looked to — what is their voting value, not what is their merit, not what is our social obligation to them, but how much can they damage us if we do not give them this, that or the other. Is this not the truth? Is this not the yardstick which is applied?

It is scandalous that it should be so but we do not know how many disabled persons there are. As some Deputies will remember I introduced a Bill here to try to help the disabled and one of the facts which emerged from the discussion here on the Bill — which I may say failed because the Government Party turned it down — was that we have no record of how many disabled there are. It has been estimated that there are some 20,000 but that is merely a vague estimate. It is a very small number compared with the total electorate. As far as I can observe this is what determines the attitude of the Government towards them when it comes to doing anything for them. A disabled person gets 52/6d a week. That type of cynicism and callousness may succeed for a little while, as it has succeeded amongst the present Fianna Fáil administration, but is has nothing lasting in it. The people are fairly good judges of those running their affairs and over a period of years they are able to form judgments — by what process I do not know — as to the genuineness or otherwise of the Government and in time they are able to deal with them. No matter what the apologists for Fianna Fáil may offer about the referendum it was not just a question of the people objecting to the attempt by the Fianna Fáil Party to cement themselves in office; there were countless grievances, distrusts and countless other things to which people felt they should give expression in the ballot box.

All the talking here is irrelevant, only another election will show how much of that tidal wave against the Government will recede. One can have whatever views one likes on it but inevitably it cannot all go back to its place of origin. I am prepared to say that never again in our lifetime will there be a Government Party in a position of overwhelming power, strength and dictatorship such as they have enjoyed at periods within the last 30 or 40 years. The day has come when people are moving towards a democratisation——

Is the Deputy now cast in the role of an astrologist?

(Interruptions.)

It is probably not permitted in the constituency from which the Deputy emanates but I am expressing my point of view. It may well be that in the constituency which the Deputy infests it may be illegal to express a contrary view but up here you have to learn to take it as well as hand it out. Nobody here has a monopoly to come in and hand it out. That is the great thing about having Parliament in Dublin ; you have to take it when you give it out. That is also one of the differences between us——

You have put an idea into my head.

Well, thank God for that. Miracles will never cease.

(Interruptions.)

Do not be discordant, Martin. I thought the Parliamentary Secretary was going to enlighten us?

I am delighted it emanated from the Deputy.

As I was saying, that is the great thing about this ancient city, this centre of civilisation, that there is freedom to express one's point of view. It may not be the same elsewhere.

It always produces a queer character.

You have a bad gallery tonight. I do not think they understand you at all.

Keep going. You are doing your best to get into the papers tomorrow.

I am afraid you portray an amazing lack of knowledge about the time a newspaper goes to bed.

I am talking about tomorrow morning.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21st November, 1968.
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