asked the Minister for Social Welfare the number of cases last year in which he took legal proceedings against an employer in the names of employed contributors for the recovery of benefit lost through the failure of employers to pay employment contributions; and if in future he will adopt this procedure more frequently in view of the financial and other difficulties which workers themselves may have in pursuing such claims.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Employment Contributions.
26.
The answer to the first part of the question is 13.
As Minister for Social Welfare I am empowered to take, on behalf of an employed contributor, the necessary steps to recover the amount of any benefit lost through an employer's failure to pay employment contributions but only in the name of and on behalf of an insured person. Apart from the cases in which legal proceedings were taken, my Department effected recovery in seven cases by making demands on the employers concerned. I am at all times prepared to take appropriate action for recovery of benefit lost, in the circumstances referred to, where so requested by an employed contributor.
Would the Minister not agree that he and his Department only take action where the employee has exhausted all means to obtain the benefit and would he give an idea as to how long it would take to recover the amount for the employee?
That depends on the legal process but I am prepared to take action in any case in which I am requested by an employee.
(Cavan): Is the Minister aware that at the present time the practice in his Department appears to be to notify the insured person of the amount lost and to tell him that he may take proceedings to recover it? Is the Minister also aware that in many of these cases the injured person is very slow to take these proceedings against a neighbour and would it not be better if the Department, as a matter of course, pursued the matter themselves once it is brought to the Minister's notice?
This is a debt due to the injured person and the Department can only act on behalf of the injured person. Therefore, the Department would have to be requested to act by the injured person.
(Cavan): Does the Minister not think that it would be better for the Department to seek the consent of the injured party to take proceedings? As I say, in very many cases the injured people will suffer the loss rather than bring proceedings themselves.
Yes, but I do not see how that would help because the proceedings would still have to be taken in the name of the insured person and it would be the insured person who would be suing the employer.
(Cavan): But if the communication would come from the Minister?
There may be another way out of it.
Does the Minister not agree that it is an offence for an employer not to stamp cards?
Yes, and an employer can be prosecuted for that offence.
Would the Minister not also agree that if he were to bring in an amendment to the Social Welfare Act whereby the employee would be paid by the Department in a somewhat similar way to the other case, this would solve the whole problem?
As I said, there may be another way of dealing with the problem and the approach the Deputy has mentioned is one that is under consideration.
In view of the fact the Minister has correctly stated that it is an offence for an employer not to stamp insurance cards, when it comes to the notice of the Department is it the invariable practice to inform the employer that he is committing an offence, or does it rest with the ordinary worker, conscious of his lack of power in some respects, to take action?
No. Quite apart from any claim arising it is the duty of the social welfare officer by means of spot checks and so on to find out if cards are being stamped and to take action even if no claim arises, if an offence is being committed by the non-stamping of cards. Employers can be and have been prosecuted for such offences even where no claim arises.
Is it a fact that when the Department institutes proceedings for failure to stamp, either a penalty is imposed or arrears of contributions are collected? Would the Minister not consider at the same time instituting civil proceedings on behalf of the employee to recover the unemployment benefit due to him?
Yes, but I would have to be requested to do so by the employee.
The mere fact that he applies for benefit and does not get it is a request in itself.
It does not constitute a request to institute civil proceedings on his behalf.
Would the Minister do it if requested?
Certainly.
Would the Minister not agree that the present system of returning completed cards to his Department is very unsatisfactory since they may be lost in the post in which case there is no proof that the employer has, in fact, stamped the cards.
If the employer is wise he would register them.
Has this been brought to the attention of employers because this is a point that has arisen on many occasions?
I could not say.