asked the Minister for Justice if he is satisfied that there are sufficient judges to ensure that traditional sessions of the circuit court can be held in Waterford city and county; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Waterford Circuit Court Sessions.
26.
I am satisfied that the business of the circuit court as a whole can be discharged with reasonable expedition with ten judges.
The president of the circuit court, who is the statutory authority in relation to the prompt dispatch of the business of the circuit court in the several circuits, has been arranging for the temporary transfer to the Dublin circuit of provincial circuit judges, to deal with an arrears position which developed in that circuit last year.
The recent adjournment of the Waterford sittings arose from the transfer of the judge to Dublin under this arrangement.
I am satisfied, however, that it should be possible to so arrange the provincial sittings of the circuit court that temporary assistance can be provided for the Dublin circuit while maintaining the normal provincial sittings.
Is the Minister aware that a circuit court sitting in Dungarvan was cancelled last April and that this has disrupted the whole process of law in County Waterford? To say that they have to be transferred to Dublin is a very poor reflection on the whole system. Apparently there are not enough judges available. This is a very serious situation.
As I already stated in answer to the Deputy's question, I am satisfied that there is an adequate number of circuit court judges to carry out the entire business of the circuit court. It happened, as I explained, that last year the criminal business of the Dublin Circuit Court fell into arrears. The president of the circuit court, on the suggestion of my predecessor, assigned, for short temporary periods in turn, each of the provincial circuit judges to the Dublin Circuit Court to try to clear the arrears. The facts show that all the provincial judges, except one, could be assigned to the Dublin circuit for temporary periods and still have ample time to do their full work in their own circuits.
(Cavan): I take it the Minister concedes that there is an accumulation of arrears in the Dublin Circuit Court and that it is necessary to transfer country judges to the city to clear them up. Is the Minister aware that, within the past fortnight a judge permanently assigned to Dublin city has been transferred to the country to relieve congestion there? Would the Minister look into the whole matter, now that he has brought a new mind to bear on it, and check the information given by his Department? He will find that a circuit court judge from the city has, in the past fortnight, been transferred to the country.
I am not so aware. It may happen that a judge had to be assigned to the provincial circuit, temporarily, because of illness or the unavailability of the judge. The figures show that, apart from the eastern circuit where Judge Deale sat for a great number of days, there is ample sitting time in the other circuits which was not used before.
(Cavan): I invite the Minister to check the position.
There is a big volume of opinion that a great deal of time is wasted in our courts. This latest innovation of arguments in the absence of juries, sometimes taking up days, is regarded by the general public as a racket. Those two items account in many instances for additional calls on public funds and account for a waste of time in our courts, which should not be the position.
The Deputy may rest assured that the carrying out of legal argument, in the absence of a jury, is not a recent innovation or racket. It has always been part of our law. It is there for the protection of the accused person. There are various matters which counsel might wish to put to the judge on points of law and it might prejudice the accused if the jury were present at that time. That has been a normal feature of criminal jury trials for many years.
In view of the fact that the judge on the Waterford circuit has been called to Dublin on numerous occasions will the Minister ensure that the Waterford circuit will not thereby be neglected?
All the provincial judges, by arrangement with the president, will help out temporarily from time to time in the Dublin circuit until the arrears there are cleared.
(Cavan): Is the Minister aware that many of these long legal arguments before the judge, in the absence of the jury, arise from attempts by the prosecution to tender evidence, by way of statements and otherwise, which is not legally admissible and which should never be attempted to be put before the jury?
I have no knowledge of that. The conduct of the case is a matter for the judge in each instance.
Is the Minister aware that, in the northern circuit, it has been necessary for the president to come up to relieve the circuit judge where there has been congestion? If the circuit judge from the northern circuit, who also does Cavan and Monaghan, is taken away from that northern circuit, there will again be an accumulation of arrears. When this House agreed to the up-grading of salaries of district court justices and judges of the High Court, we did so on condition that a Bill would be introduced here extending the jurisdiction of the lower courts. It was for that reason that the House agreed to the increase in salaries. Furthermore, it was for that reason that we agreed to limit the number of circuit court judges. We came to the conclusion that circuit court work would diminish if district justices got greater jurisdiction. Will the Minister try to implement the undertaking of his predecessor in office to this House that the new jurisdiction Bill would be introduced as soon as possible?
I can tell the House that a Bill increasing the jurisdictions, as mentioned, will, I hope, come before the House quite shortly: it is before the Government at present. With regard to the complaint relative to the northern circuit, I would point out that, on the basis of a normal sitting year of 35 weeks composed of four sitting days each week, a provincial judge can be expected to sit on 140 days. In the year ended 31st July, 1969, a circuit court judge sat in the northern circuit on 114 days.
Plus two extra days in the week for travelling.
Will the Minister accept that seldom or never do circuit court judges have to present judgement in cases? On his own statement, would the Minister not accept that the judge referred to works 456 hours a year— 114 days multiplied by four. The position may be different from the High Court where judgments are reserved in a number of cases. We cannot afford to have people earning big salaries and working for only 456 hours per annum. The general public are saying throughout the country that we are too soft in this island of ours.