asked the Minister for Finance if his attention has been drawn to the OECD report which indicates that of 17 members countries Ireland has the highest consumer price increase; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this serious situation.
10.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Consumer Price Increase.
9.
andMr. Timmins asked the Minister for Finance if a recent survey showing this country as having the fastest rate of inflation of all West European countries is accepted by the Government as being correct; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to take Questions No. 9 and 10 together.
To remove any possible confusion, I should like to make it clear that the report is a general one covering the problem of inflation as it affects all members of the OECD. The OECD report does, indeed, show that, taking in each case the most recent 12 months for which figures were available when it was written, consumer prices in Ireland rose at a higher rate than in any OECD country although the report added that the rate of increase "has now flattened out".
During 1970 the Government repeatedly endeavoured to bring home to all concerned the highly unfavourable trend in prices that the excessive income increases then occurring or in prospect were bound to cause. By their direct intervention last October—which was eventually followed by the national pay agreement—and through their budgetary strategy as well as by their price control measures the Government have acted to reverse that trend. Unfortunately reversing the trend will take time. It is moreover crucially dependent on whole-hearted adherence to the national pay agreement. The Government are, however, hopeful that if strict adherence is given to the Agreement this, coupled with the budgetary measures already taken, will lead to a slowing down in the rate of price increase in 1971 and a further improvement next year.
Did the Minister say that the trend has been corrected in recent times?
No, flattened.
It is the people who are flattened.
It is the people who have been flattened, not the trend. Has the Minister not noticed that this matter was referred to quite recently in the daily newspapers, and is that the sort of comment to make on this very important matter in this House at this time?
I do not know if the Deputy does not like it because——
I certainly do not like it and the people do not like it.
——the comment is factual. He refers in his question and in his supplementary question to the report and to what it said. He should not be selective in that. I have pointed out that the report also says that the rate of increase in price rises is flattening out.
The rate of increase, not the increase.
Does Deputy FitzGerald seriously suggest that prices are not going to rise? Is there any country in the world in which they are not going to rise? What is important is the rate of increase and attention is drawn in the report to the fact that in the particular 12 months—differing 12 months in different cases—available to the OECD when the report was written, our rate of increase was the highest in the OECD countries. It also pointed out that since that 12 months the rate has begun to flatten out. In my reply I have given the reasons for this. I have indicated that, provided these conditions which I mentioned are adhered to, we can expect a further improvement this year and an even greater improvement next year.
In the course of what the Minister said—maybe I misheard him—in addition to using the word "flatten" which is used in the report, he referred to a reversal of the trend. By that does he mean that he is looking forward to a period in which prices will fall?
No, I do not mean that. I was speaking of the trend of prices upwards, and I was referring to a reversal of that trend where the rate of increase would fall instead of increasing as it has been increasing.
Question No. 11.
Is the Minister not aware that his words will be proved completely false inside a couple of weeks when the increase in the cost of living will prove to have been greater between February and May than in any quarter since the foundation of this State? Why does the Minister talk this kind of gibberish that he has been going on with when he talks about Budget policy? The Budget is up 22 per cent this year on what it was last year—a far bigger increase even than the increase in the consumer price index. Why is the Minister trying to put across to the House this completely false picture of what he has been doing?
I do not accept the implications of the Deputy's supplementary question.
It is not an implication, it is a fact.
Can the Minister say what is the 12 months period to which the OECD report relates? What was the price increase in that 12 months period and what is the price increase for the latest 12 months period? I should like to see the effect of his flattening out.
The period in question in the OECD report was the 12 months ending in February, 1970, so far as I recall. There has not been a 12 months period since that.
Pre-decimalisation.
February, 1970— what was the increase in that period?
I think the figure was 10 per cent.
What was the figure for February, 1971?
I have not got that figure at the moment. I was quoting the OECD report which refers to this as saying that the rate of increase was flattening out.
Question No. 11.
That was what we all want to see.
(Interruptions.)
A drop from 10 per cent to 8 per cent is described by the Minister as a flattening out?
I am quoting the OECD report which said it was flattening out. They are the exact words.
That is a flattening out?
We cannot discuss this question all evening. I have called Question No. 11.
If the Deputy wants to choose selectively from the report he can do so but he should not complain if I quote from the report.
Would the Minister not agree that both through Government action and inaction they have encouraged inflation during the past two years and that, for political expediency, action was taken by the Fianna Fáil Government that deliberately encouraged inflation? Wages are being eroded and our exports are being priced out of world markets due to the deliberate encouragement of inflation by the Government for political expediency.
Nonsense.
I am calling Question No. 11.
May I ask one supplementary question?
There are 116 Questions on the Order Paper. If we take this length of time with each question we will never finish.
This is an interesting one.
The others would be interesting too if we came to them.
Has the Minister's attention been drawn to a report in the Western People in which the situation in the west of Ireland and in Mayo in particular is described as a doomsday situation?
No.
Can I clarify the figures? Will the Minister not agree that the increase in the consumer price index in the 12 months to 1970, as shown in his own publication, was 6 per cent and in the 12 months ending November last it was 10 per cent? How can he describe this as a flattening out?
This is a debate, not a question. We cannot have a debate. Will the Deputy please appreciate that?
We have been given false information.
This is Question Time and the Deputy may not turn every question into a debate.
I am getting tired of these allegations about false information from Deputy FitzGerald.
Is the Minister tired of low standards in high places?
If Deputy FitzGerald wants to put down a question let him put it down, and if he wants to talk about inaccuracies let him be precise himself.
The Minister told us that the consumer price index in February, 1970, was 10 per cent when in fact his own publication shows that it was 6 per cent.
I have called Question No. 11. The Deputy may not make a speech. The Deputy will please resume his seat.
The Deputy knows exactly what I said.
I know what the Minister said and it was incorrect.
(Interruptions.)
He knows exactly what I said.
Does the Minister deny that this is an increase?
Question No. 11. I will not hear any further questions on this.
It is a percentage increase.
On a point of order, will the Chair not agree that both sides of the House are behaving very childishly on this matter?
That is a great help. We want to get the facts.
We cannot have a debate on this question.
(Interruptions.)
Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
Will the Minister accept that he has misinformed this House?
The Deputy is being disorderly.
Is it not disorderly to misinform the House?
He does not know the difference. The Minister should not look so vicious. Who is he looking for?
I am looking for Deputy Davern. He might like to say something to Deputy FitzGerald.
More innuendos.
If Deputy FitzGerald wants——
I will tell the Minister for Lands something about Roscommon if he draws me.
If Deputy FitzGerald wants dirt we will give him plenty of it going back over 50 years.
Is the Minister for Lands addressing some remarks to me?
I think it is to me.