Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 Jul 1971

Vol. 255 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 26: Local Government (Resumed)

Debate resumed on the following motion:

Go ndeonófar suim nach mó ná £13,762,000 chun íoctha an mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1972, le haghaidh tuarastail agus costais Oifig an Aire Rialtais Áitiúil, lena n-áirítear deontais d'Údaráis Áitiúla, deontais, agus costais eile i ndáil le tithíocht, agus scéimeanna agus deontais ilghnéitheacha lena n-áirítear deontas-i-gcabhair.

—(Minister for Local Government.)

Major de Valera

Before Question Time I was dealing with selective law enforcement. I should like to summarise the points again so far as this Minister is concerned. We have a mass of road regulations and speed limits but should we not get local authorities to revise these from the point of view of having them observed? It is a very bad thing to have regulations which are broken as regularly as these are and as I have said it is demoralising the whole motoring public.

I have mentioned the question of signs but one other point which is of importance to Dublin is the maintenance of traffic lights. Sometimes a traffic light fails and it is out of action for more than 24 hours. I can understand that there would be a certain gap but I referred to a particular corner earlier, the crossing of Cuffe Street and Redmond's Hill. One of the reasons that crossing was in my mind is that a short time ago the lights there were out of order for a whole week-end and there was an accident at the corner during that period. It is very important, particularly where main junctions are concerned, that the signalling arrangements are maintained and if they fail, as fail they will, that there is rapid attention given to the matter. There was a case reported recently at Clonskeagh. There again mechanical failures will occur but how quickly can an alternative control be introduced or how quickly can the defect be repaired? These are details that might command attention from the Minister in the course of his administration of these matters. However, I dealt with these things as well as the question of parking before Question Time.

I should like now to expand a little on what I said about Christ Church Cathedral and the development of the Christchurch area. It so happens at the moment that the whole northern side is open and that there is an opportunity there for developing a park or at any rate developing the area having the cathedral in the background. The environment is not unfavourable for such development because on the other side of Christchurch Place and at the corner between Christ Church and the Tailors' Hall the space is now clear and there is an opportunity, which if it is not taken now will be gone for ever, to develop that area and to provide an adequate setting for the jewel of the cathedral that is there, a jewel that is supported by what I may call minor constellations around it, because the whole area is the old historical area of Dublin.

To press my argument I would draw attention to what was done in the past in the vicinity of St. Patrick's Cathedral. That is a very fine building, only a stone's throw away from Christ Church. The aesthetic value of the cathedral as a public building is very much enhanced by the park that is around it. There is around it, towards the back, an open park space which does a great deal to set off the cathedral and which gives a very pleasing view when one approaches it from that side. There is the opportunity of doing precisely the same thing for Christ Church Cathedral between the cathedral itself on the hill and the river, all the site of which is clear. I mentioned before Question Time that in places abroad where there are such architectural features and monuments which attract tourists they are often set off and enhanced by a park around them or a proper setting.

Up to recently Christ Church Cathedral was hemmed in with a lot of buildings that hid and crowded it our. Even those of us Dubliners who knew it did not realise what a fine building it is, small as it is, until the place was opened up to allow us to see it. I should like to impress very much on the Minister the opportunity that there is now. It will mean money, it will mean inconvenience, to do the big thing, the imaginative thing, the thing which will bring credit to us in our generation, which will do a great deal for the city of Dublin and which perhaps more than anything else will enhance the tourist value of the city of Dublin from the ancient monument point of view. It will do a great deal. It would be a money investment in the long run. We have been slow in this country to do this type of thing. It would be a lot better than the public lavatories that we have put in all over the place with such great notices, which seemed to be the only activity we have had for a while to attract tourists—very necessary as they are, I hasten to add.

Here is a chance for doing the big imaginative thing, a profitable thing, a chance that will be gone once that area is built on or appropriated for any other purpose. For posterity it is something that would be memorable for the administration that would make the big and courageous decision. I know the corporation are not there at the moment but the Minister and all those responsible have an opportunity of doing something really big now, something for which they could secure a niche in our history. I am not exaggerating when I say this. They have the opportunity to do an imaginative and a big thing for which history will give them credit. They also have the opportunity of going down into history as second-rates who did not understand. That is what it can boil down to. So, really, although money, commerce, administration, all these things, at present are pressing in and all the good sensible, sound, pedestrian reasons can be given as to why the big thing cannot be done, still I think that if there were the slightest element of greatness in anybody, the opportunity would be seized now that it is there.

I do know that if this courageous decision were taken provision would have to be made for the administrative necessities of the local authority in Dublin and for all the services and so on. These can surely be provided elsewhere and not very far away. I am sure there would be unanimous support for the provision of these under these circumstances even if it meant a bigger drain on our purse. I feel that when an opportunity which only occurs once in a couple of centuries or so turns up, in an era when people are appreciative of the things of the past, appreciative of beauty, appreciative of green spaces in the centre of a city, in an era when these things can be profitable because people come a long way to see these things and pay for doing so, what I suggest should be done.

I do not feel that I have been intemperate in pressing this. I do not think I have been extravagant in pressing it. I should like to press it with all the vigour that I could, realising the difficulties, realising the cost. Here is a case where I would say the cost is worth it. However, everybody may not see it in the same way but I still would feel that if the decision were taken the support would be unanimous.

On the whole question of monuments all over the country, not so long ago we had a valuable decision and again a farseeing decision to restore Holycross. There have been a number of such decisions. There was the restoration of Ballintubber Abbey which is to the credit of those people who restored it. There is the maintenance of historic monuments like the Rock of Cashel and many others all over the country. We are inclined to forget that in this city there is Christ Church Cathedral which is one of the oldest buildings in the country. Although this cathedral is small in size, in architecture and in history it will rank with many famous cathedrals throughout Europe. Christ Church Cathedral certainly has a history and it is not a history that is entirely local. It has played a part in the life of this nation even from before the time of the Norman conquest. I shall not go into these details now but it is a cathedral that we can be proud of.

Only a stone's throw from Christ Church is Saint Patrick's Cathedral. In that area, too, there are fine monuments and across the river there is St. Michan's Church. This whole area has great tourist potential for this city. Heretofore the opportunity for the development of that area as a tourist and amenity potential was stymied by reason of the fact that old buildings were not cleared but that is no longer the case. The area from High Street down to the river has been cleared. For the people who must make these decisions there is the opportunity of being remembered in history, although they will be remembered anyway, and I would like to think that they would be remembered for greatness.

Admittedly there is the question of the provision of administrative facilities for the corporation but there are cleared areas in the vicinity. I would support the Minister in any efforts he might make to take over buildings in that area. I am sure that any plans that have been drawn up for the area could be redrafted to suit another area. It is still not too late to preserve and develop this area. This would not affect in any way the housing programme because it is not intended to build houses there.

I appreciate that none of the problems facing this city can be dealt with by the wave of a magic wand but there are problems which must be faced. Another problem with which we must now deal is that of pollution which is being caused by the rapid growth of the city. There are also water and sewerage problems. I hope the Minister will deal with this question of pollution as it affects Dublin city. It is a problem that is becoming very serious. For instance, the acidity in the air in certain areas near the centre of the city and towards the east has now become exceedingly high. This is not the place for quoting technical details but a ph of 4 is a very high level and this level has been measured in the centre of the city. Anybody approaching the city from the suburbs on either the south or the north side will observe a layer of smog over the city.

Mr. Bruton

Hear, hear.

Major de Valera

Coming from, say, the Mount Merrion area one can see a smog across UCD and that area generally. One can observe, too, much black smoke coming from the two lower chimneys of the ESB station at Ringsend. This emission of smoke into the atmosphere must be checked or else we will be faced with a very difficult situation in the future. There has been much talk about the problem of pollution. Some of this talk has been informed while some has not, but it is important that whatever discussion takes place it should take place only after a serious assessment of the problem has been made.

The Minister might arrange for the carrying out of an impartial survey of the problem. When I say "impartial", I am not suggesting that any departmental survey would not be impartial but there is always the danger of having either one or two sides in an investigation of this kind. On the one side there might be the enthusiasts who want perfection regardless of everything else but who will not have regard to resources while, on the other side, there may be those who begin with a preconceived answer. Such extremes would be dangerous in dealing with matters of this kind. There must be a sober and measured approach to the problem. First, it is necessary to ascertain what exactly is the problem.

Any extension of the city boundary that would be coupled with any further development of factories which would pollute the atmosphere must be guarded against. When passing through a certain area where there is a certain chemical factory I notice nitrogen fumes escaping. I am sure everything is being done to try to prevent this but they are still to be seen escaping. That sort of thing happening in a city like Dublin adds up.

The next matter I want to deal with is connected with pollution and also with public health. With the development of Dublin city and its environments the sewage problem is now serious. Pollution from sewage at the mouth of the Liffey and in the sea around Dublin is something that should be looked into. I have had a number of complaints about this. Only this morning, with the wind blowing in a certain direction, people remarked on the smell a mile or more inland. The River Liffey is now filthy. The sewage problem has gone beyond our resources. I should like the Minister to tell us frankly what the position is in Dublin. It is much better that people should be told the full facts. Everybody understands that the haste to build houses and the development of so many areas must have created a sewage problem. It would be a good thing for us to know exactly what the situation is now. Many people are perturbed about it. Certainly the casual evidence one comes across is disturbing.

Are we having difficulty with a water supply for Dublin city? There have been complaints about lack of pressure. I have been informed that the demands on the water supply available are becoming excessive. I have no way of knowing the facts about this so I take this opportunity of asking the Minister to give us some information on the current situation in regard to the water supply for Dublin. There does not seem to be any lack of water but I am told there is a deficiency in the distribution which may cause complications and indeed one person suggested to me it is causing complications in the centre of the city. Are our engineering staffs in Dublin overloaded having regard to the expansion of the city in recent years?

In regard to local government, Deputy Clinton raised the question of centralisation as against decentralisation, local bodies as against central bodies. These are problems that can only be answered in specific cases. If efficiency demands a certain amount of centralisation let us be frank about it but if we are to have local representation let it be a reality. If there is to be power delegated locally let that power be a reality, not merely a window dressing so that in the last analysis all power comes into the centre again.

There is the big problem of rates, particularly in Dublin. Everybody realises, I hope, that services must be paid for. Most people would also be fair enough to agree that to some extent the rating of people with property is equitable but are the rates not carrying a load which more properly, in our present social conditions, should be carried centrally and should be properly a matter for taxation? When one looks at the breakdown of the rates that is a question that occurs.

A fair-minded person will admit that rates in respect of things properly chargeable to rates in a modern context are reasonable enough but the load now has become very heavy even when one makes allowance for the fact that there have been no revaluations. People forget that valuations have not increased with inflation and that therefore it is, in a sense, reasonable to increase the rates in an inflationary situation. I am not making the argument that everything should be fixed on the old valuation but I am saying that the load currently on the rates is excessive and I am asking whether the increase in the rates is an unfair burden on the ratepayers having regard to the totality of the situation. I think it is. I think the time has come when some of the load should be transferred.

Mr. McLaughlin

In the constituency I represent there are many complaints being made today about roads. Despite all the money that has been spent on roads there are many roads that badly need black topping. No repairs are any good to roads now except rolling and tarring because the volume of traffic has increased. The horse and cart did not do the damage to roads which tractors, trailers, cars, lorries and ten-ton trucks are doing today. People feel they are entitled to better roads when they see the improvements that have been made in other areas and know the hardship they have to suffer and the cost of the wear and tear of their vehicles. That is why people are making very strong demands on local authorities and on the Department for more money to bring these roads up-to-date.

Occasionally we see a scheme approved by the Department costing perhaps about £50,000. That expenditure may not cover a distance of a quarter mile, while the same amount of money would provide for many miles of county roads in the area. It annoys ratepayers when they see huge sums of money spent by local authorities, with the approval of the Department, digging into a mountainside or a hillside, working for up to six months with heavy mechanical equipment doing one big job. At the end of it there is only a quarter mile of road done. The Department should consider very carefully before deciding on this huge expenditure. They should have the money channelled back to the county roads and provide more mileage. I am satisfied that the quarter mile of road of the type I have in mind would easily carry the volume of traffic it has carried for the past ten years without a breakdown but these schemes are prepared, I think, between Dublin and the local authority and are carried out at vast expense, sometimes exceeding £50,000. I should like some of this money diverted to county roads and lesser roads to accommodate the people.

Nothing is more enticing to local people as an incentive to keep them in their homes than to have a tarred road to their doors; nothing makes them more discontented than to see other people enjoying good roads while they must, in their daily work, travel a lane-way. Carrying out repairs on gravel roads is practically a waste of time and money. A heavy day's rain undoes all the work. I appeal to the Minister to increase county road grants if at all possible. That is the wish of many people particularly in mountainous areas that suffer from severe floods and hilly roads.

In fairness, I must say that the Department were quite generous in their allocation for local improvement schemes in Leitrim. They were not quite so generous to Sligo. We get £90,000 in Leitrim and £33,000 in Sligo. The figure for Leitrim may seem substantial, as indeed it is, but with present wage rates and costs of material and transport it is quickly eaten up and I would ask the Minister, if possible to increase these grants, particularly in the case of Sligo. Those grants do very useful work which was formerly done under the Local Authorities (Works) Act.

While thanking the Department for stepping up these grants considerably this year, we look forward to a further increase next year. The total grant now, we must remember, is only replacing other grants for the repair of bog roads and so on. These were given without local contribution and a considerable amount of money was spent. The local improvements schemes grant must do the work now that was done under those schemes. A further increase would relieve the burden on local authorities and provide better roads. The policy under this scheme now is to blacktop any road that is done. In the long run that will mean less demand on the local authority which must then try to get them maintained by the county council. Generally, we are going in the right direction but I should like to see more money for those schemes.

Housing has always been a big problem and will apparently continue to be a big problem for some time. There is a tendency for more people to go to the towns and villages. It is only when a house becomes vacant that we realise how many people are anxious to get a home of their own. Those in need of housing will rush to their elected representatives to see what can be done. In the small centres in my constituency there are teachers, gardaí and other officials who cannot get a house in the towns of Kiltyclogher or Manorhamilton. For years we have been waiting for houses to be erected in Dromahair. Finally, we have succeeded in our efforts to get four houses for aged people.

On different occasions I approached the Department for sanction for those houses and sanction finally came. I was surprised that work did not commence and I went to the county secretary who told me that sanction had not been received for the loan. These things delayed the provision of houses. One would not imagine there need be much delay in sanctioning four houses and the loans wherewith to provide them. This business should be speeded up. We have this problem in small villages and people have to travel perhaps 20 miles from Kiltyclogher to Sligo to get even a rented house or flat.

The position in Sligo is even worse than in any of the centres in my area. We have young married couples paying £6 per week. They may have a gas cooker and they may have light, but they have to find £6 rent out of their weekly earnings leaving them with very little for other purposes. People are paying £4 or £5 for very limited accommodation. Money spent on the erection of houses is well spent; it protects the health of the people and makes them content.

There are several housing schemes in Sligo which are nearing completion but the trouble arises when the houses are allocated. Corporation members are approached to make representations. They are blamed when the person concerned is not successful with his application and the housing inspector, the county medical officer of health and the county manager also are blamed. The truth is that there are not enough houses to meet the demand and many borderline cases must be disappointed. I go to Sligo once a week and I know the position that obtains in that area. I hope that this backlog will be reduced considerably.

At the moment 12 houses are being erected at Ballysodare but the number of applicants is 40. This means that 28 genuine applicants will be disappointed when the houses are allocated. In North Sligo every time a cottage becomes vacant public representatives are approached regarding the matter. The shortage of houses makes it imperative that we go ahead with a more rapid housing programme.

I do not approve of too many prefabricated houses being provided. They are all right for the short-term but they are not the real answer. Money provided for the construction of houses is well spent because the houses will be habitable for very many years. Nowadays families are being allocated the larger-type prefabricated houses and for the older people a smaller type is provided. If the county councils would provide houses they would not have any problem in finding tenants. However, people have become so despondent while waiting for county council houses that in many cases they decide to accept the prefabricated houses.

There is too much red tape attached to the allocation of county council houses. The council and the Department must communicate continually with one another to satisfy themselves that the applicant is in genuine need. The next matter is the site and the subdivision of the plot from the farm on which it is located. This matter must be referred to the subdivision section of the Land Registry Office and it must be done through the county council solicitor. After a long wait the matter is referred back to the county council who then advertise for tenders. Advertisements are inserted in the newspapers two or three times and in many cases a tender is not even submitted.

The blame rests with the Department of Local Government because they will not sanction enough money for the local authority to pay the contractor. The Department will only allow approximately £2,200 or £2,400 instead of the £3,000 or £2,800 which the houses cost. For this reason contractors are not interested in securing those contracts. I would ask the Minister to increase the grants for local authority houses. If he does this there will not be such a hold-up in the construction of houses.

Another problem that arises is the matter of planning. In some cases a young man who has been successful in business decides to erect ten or 12 houses on a main road. The sites may have cost him £1,000 each but he has difficulty in getting planning permission. The Department will tell him "no".

Mr. Cunningham

It is the local authority who tells him "no".

Mr. McLaughlin

In many cases the local authority says "no" and so do the Department.

Mr. Cunningham

Only one-tenth of the number of planning applications ever reach the Department.

Mr. McLaughlin

The ones I have in mind reached the Department.

Mr. Cunningham

The Deputy was unlucky.

Mr. McLaughlin

It reached the Department in one case when there was about £7,000 involved. The man who was to build the houses was told that if he did not have just one entrance to those ten houses he would not get permission.

Mr. Cunningham

Quite rightly so, on a main road.

Mr. McLaughlin

Yes, on a main road.

Mr. Cunningham

Logically it would follow that, if a man applies for 100 houses, he should have 100 entrances. Providing one entrance is not too onerous.

Mr. McLaughlin

It means that this young man who sold the land may be left without his money, and that the Drumcliffe area may be left without ten new houses which is very serious. The provision of these ten houses would mean that the area would develop into a prosperous village in the course of nine or ten years. To my mind that would be very useful. There is already a post office there and a public house and a church. Ten new houses would be a big boon to any rural area. Those people would have regard to the dangers of going in and out on a main road. The result may be that no houses will be built. The people are very discontented about this. I am going to the Department about it and I hope the matter will be reconsidered and that this housing programme will be allowed to go ahead. I mentioned earlier the length of time it took the local authority to provide a small number of houses and here we have a successful young man who is prepared to build ten houses.

The time has come to increase the grants for reconstruction and for new houses. We have been on the same scale for a number of years: £100 for a three-roomed house, £120 for a four-roomed house and £140 for a five-roomed house. For providing a five-roomed house with water and sewerage laid on and doing a thorough reconstruction job a man will get £280. That is very small.

Mr. Cunningham

For reconstruction with water and sewerage?

Mr. McLaughlin

Plus £275. He will still find that it is a small sum compared with the estimate he will get. The Minister should examine this matter with a view to increasing the grant. Many Deputies have suggested that this should be done. I know from the estimates given to people that an immediate increase is necessary.

There are many people today who do not know that there are two types of application forms for houses. There is an application form for those who wish to apply for the higher rate of grant, and there is a different application form for those who wish to apply for the ordinary type of grant. This is causing confusion. Many people make their application on the ordinary application form and then they have a job to find out whether they are entitled to the higher rate of grant. They have to go through the usual channels. This leads to long delays. We should try to bring home to people that there is a special application form for those who wish to apply for the higher rate of grant. This would save the civil servants a considerable amount of trouble, and also the Department and the local authorities.

Local county councils have given a good deal of thought to the question of the reorganisation of local administration. Local public representatives feel that the day is coming when their numbers will be reduced, if they are not put out of the picture altogether. It would be a sad day for this country if local representation were reduced in any way. In Leitrim there are 30,000 people and 22 county councillors If local representation were reduced there, people would find themselves far removed from their elected representative and might have difficulty in contacting him. The country is divided into four electoral areas and this means that nobody is very far from an elected representative. In Sligo there are 36,000 people and 24 representatives, I think. Nobody is very far removed from the elected representatives. I do not think that a change would be in the interests of the ratepayers. These representatives just get their allowances and they give constant attention to those who elect them. It should be left that way.

We hear a good deal about centralisation and we see it today in relation to schools and regional health boards. Many people are not satisfied that all the centralisation will be in the best interests of the community. Members of local authorities are not at all satisfied with the Regional Health Boards. The Minister travelled around to all the local authorities and had open discussions with them about the changeover but, at this stage, they have lost so much contact with the health services that they are rather disappointed. I will not go into the question of schools because that would be relevant to another Department. Many people are not at all in favour of so much regionalisation and centralisation. Ours is only a small country. Our services have given satisfaction down through the years and it would be a pity at this stage to change them.

There are schools throughout the country in which there is an urgent need for playgrounds. It is sad to see groups of little children released from school for half an hour or an hour walking aimlessly around.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister for Local Government has no responsibility in this.

Mr. McLaughlin

A few years ago we heard a great deal about the amount of money earned through tourism. It was around £100 million. That was a great boon to the country. In the last two years receipts from tourism have fallen considerably. People who were looking for grants from Bord Fáilte waited a considerable time for an official to call on them and tell them what work required to be done.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Tourism is a matter for the Minister for Transport and Power.

Mr. McLaughlin

We were hopeful of getting more money from Bord Fáilte and people were disappointed.

Water and sewerage schemes, like housing, are slow moving. In some cases people thought they had been forgotten because the inspector was so slow in visiting. A deep debt of gratitude is owed to the people who organised group water schemes. There are many today who would never have known the blessing of a water supply in their homes had it not been for the initiative, energy and dedication of those who started these schemes. We were told at one time by a Minister for Local Government that he would provide water in every house in the country. Some of the most fantastic schemes were prepared and a good deal of time was spent discussing them, even though anyone with any common sense knew that they just were not realisable.

Mr. Bruton

Hear, hear.

Mr. McLaughlin

The group water supply schemes have been an unqualified success and, as I say, a deep debt of gratitude is owed to those who bent their efforts and their energies to implementing these schemes.

Mr. Cunningham

The grant, of course, was a minor consideration.

Mr. McLaughlin

The organisers had their headaches. With regard to derelict sites, I understand that the payment of the grant is dependent on whether or not money is available. Grants were sanctioned and I understand those sanctioned will be paid but there will be no grants in future. Am I right in that?

Mr. Cunningham

For new applicants, yes.

Mr. McLaughlin

That clears the air at any rate. I have had to tell people that I did not know whether or not the grants sanctioned would be paid.

Mr. Cunningham

The Deputy should not have told them that.

Mr. McLaughlin

I wonder is it a good idea to stop these grants. There are derelict sites which should be tidied up. There are derelict houses which are a danger, particularly to little children who play in them. Grants should be paid for the removal of these houses. Towns cannot go in for the Tidy Towns Competition because of these derelict sites. These should be tackled by somebody.

Mr. Cunningham

The local health authority.

Mr. McLaughlin

If there were a grant someone would get on with the work. When speaking of water and sewerage schemes, I should have mentioned the Dromahair scheme. That scheme went on for years, passing from the local authority to the Department and back again. Finally it was sanctioned. There had to be a public inquiry first and then the scheme was coming and going. Now, I am glad to say it is going.

In the village of Ballintogher there is an open sewer. That should not be in 1971 and something should be done about it. A scheme would need to be speeded up.

Mr. Cunningham

Is it the local authority needs speeding up?

Mr. McLaughlin

I reported it to the local authority and I spoke about it here. No village today should be served by an open sewer.

With regard to local administration, I believe the county boundaries should be kept. I have one final word to say on drainage.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It would not be relevant on the Estimate for the Department of Local Government.

Mr. Cunningham

Not unless it comes under minor improvement schemes.

Mr. McLaughlin

That is really where I intended to bring it in. On 5th August last year we had a most unusual downpour which caused flooding. It got widespread publicity because public representatives were called into the various centres to see what could be done. Representations were made to the various Departments and promises were made but the flooding died away, everybody got back to normal and nothing has been done since. The farmers had their hay crop saved but not gathered and the damage which occurred over a wide area could hardly be estimated. A rough estimate was made by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and sent to the Department of Finance and the Board of Works but nothing has been done. The contribution to local improvements schemes, such as the ones I have been talking about, is very high and for that reason alone the local improvements scheme grant should be considerably increased so that schemes which are too big under normal circumstances can be dealt with.

Mr. Tunney

Is gnáthach ar ocáid an Mheastacháin seo tagairt a dhéanamh do chuid mhaith pointí. Is iontuigthe é seo mar measaim nach bhfuil Roinn ar bith ag a bhfuil an oiread céanna baint aici le gnáth-shaol an duine atá ag an Roinn Rialtais Áitiúil.

I dtosach báire, ba mhaith liom cogháirdeachas a dhéanamh leis an Aire de bharr a cheapacháin agus as ucht a bhfuil déanta aige san Roinn go dtí seo agus atá beartaithe aige a dhéanamh amach anseo. Ba mhaith liom freisin an moladh céanna a thabhairt don Rúnaí Parlaiminte ar a cheapachán agus ar fheabhas a chuid oibre. Tá foireann an-mhaith sa Roinn Rialtais Áitiúil agus tá mé thar a bheith dóchasach go ndéanfar sár-obair ansin ins na blianta atá romhainn.

The debate on the Estimate for the Department of Local Government covers a very wide range of subjects. I appreciate it is not going to be possible for me in the remaining five minutes to deal with all the points I have in mind. However, I intend spending the remaining five minutes referring to my attitude towards local government. I am amazed at the proposal to build municipal and civic offices on City Quay. I heard Deputy de Valera advance his own reasons. My reasons differ from his in that they are practical and perhaps more mundane reasons, but nevertheless are more relatable to what we call local government.

The city of Dublin has grown to such wide dimensions that traffic and pollution are accepted as major problems. It is paradoxical, and to me most illogical, when the Department are indicating to people their concern about these problems that the principal local authority in the country should consider siting their municipal offices in the city centre. Such a choice can only contribute to traffic problems, pollution and the lack of communication which already exists. The sooner people realise that there are areas around the perimeter of the city which are as big as most other cities in the country the better. At present there is not one local office or one local official to which the residents in each area have recourse on matters relating to local government. I want to confirm my admiration for the present Minister for telling Dublin Corporation that he wishes them to have a local office in the Ballymun area. It has been called a pilot scheme and I hope it will be the forerunner of many offices throughout the city so that everyone living in these areas will be brought into local government. When one looks at a map of Dublin, Finglas may look local to City Quay but the break in the communication link between Finglas and City Quay means that Finglas is as far removed from City Quay as Dunboyne is from the town of Navan.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.

The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 13th July, 1971.