asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the present position regarding Ireland's application for entry into the EEC.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
13.
I made available to Deputies before the summer recess a comprehensive report on the progress of our negotiations with the European Communities. This report covered the period up to the end of July. Since then we have had two meetings at Deputies' level with the Communities on 27th September, and 15th October, and one ministerial meeting on 19th October. A large measure of agreement has been recorded at these meetings.
The development of the greatest importance has been the agreement reached with the Community on 19th October, in relation to the economic and industrial development of Ireland. The Community have agreed that a special Protocol concerning Ireland should be annexed to the Treaty of Accession and its terms were agreed at the ministerial meeting on 19th October. This Protocol formally recognises that it is in the interest of the Community to ensure the attainment of the objectives of the Irish Government's policy of industrialisation and economic development which is designed to align the standards of living in Ireland with those of the other member States of the enlarged Community, to eliminate underemployment and to even out regional differences in the level of development. The Protocol furthermore calls on the Community institutions to use, for the purpose of attaining these objectives, all the means and procedures at their disposal under the Treaties and in particular the financial resources of the Community.
The Protocol also specifies that account must be taken of the objectives of economic expansion and the improvement of the standard of living in Ireland in the application of Articles 92 and 93 of the EEC Treaty which deal with State aids.
With regard to our scheme of export tax reliefs, it is now clear, as a result of our negotiations, that we can continue the reliefs in operation. We shall be able to honour commitments already entered into in respect of these reliefs and to continue to grant these reliefs to new firms which begin manufacturing for export. This scheme of export tax reliefs will in due course after our accession fall to be considered by the Commission as part of their continuing examination of the whole structure of State aids throughout the Community under Articles 92 and 93 of the Treaty to which I have referred. Modifications in the scheme may be necessary as a result of this examination but we have been assured by the Community that any such modifications will be subject to appropriate delays and transitional procedures. Moreover, the Community have accepted that whatever modifications may have to be made in the scheme of export tax reliefs, the revised incentive scheme should be equally effective in promoting industrial development in Ireland. In the meantime, we can continue to offer the export tax reliefs, as provided for in existing legislation, to new firms to establish in Ireland.
I am making available to Deputies this week the text of the Protocol which has been negotiated together with copies of the Community's statement introducing the draft text and my reply.
The other principal developments in the negotiations may be summarised as follows:
With regard to transitional measures in the industrial sector, the Community have agreed to our request that quantitative restrictions on imports of certain products, namely, hose, springs for vehicles, sparking plugs and brushes, from other member States of the enlarged Community should be eliminated in accordance with the timetable for their elimination under the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement, which provides for annually increasing quotas and their final elimination on 1st July, 1975. In the case of superphosphates, it has been agreed that, in so far as intra-Community trade is concerned, there should be a progressively increasing quota and that the quantitative import restrictions should be eliminated finally on 1st July, 1975. The Community have also accepted our proposal for the retention of our quantitative restrictions on exports to other member States of the enlarged Community of timber, sheepskins and non-ferrous metals up to 30th June, 1975.
As far as transitional measures in the agricultural sector are concerned, we have made proposals for the removal of our quantitative restrictions on five products, namely, apples, tomatoes, soft fruit pulp, onions and grass seed. In the case of apples and tomatoes we are prepared to agree to the substitution for the quantitative restrictions of a system of compensatory amounts to be levied during the transitional period on imports and related to the difference between producer prices in Ireland and in the Community. We are prepared to eliminate the quantitative restrictions on onions and soft fruit pulp from the date of accession, to phase out our import duties on these products in intra-Community trade and to align the duties on imports from non-member countries with the Community's common customs tariff in conformity with the special timetable for horticultural products which has already been agreed in the negotiations. In the case of grass seed we would eliminate the quantitative restriction on imports from the date of accession and replace it by an import duty on ryegrass seed at the common customs tariff rate. This duty would be phased out in accordance with the special timetable for horticultural products. Our proposals are at present being studied by the Community.
The Community have made further proposals in relation to the institutions of the enlarged Communities, namely, the enlargement of the European Court of Justice, voting majorities in the Council on ECSC matters, representation on the ECSC Consultative Committee and the EURATOM Scientific and Technical Committee, rotation of the office of president of the Council and an increase in the number of vice-presidents of the Commission. The proposed increase from seven to 11 in the number of judges in the European Court of Justice is of particular interest to us as it will ensure that one of the judges will be an Irish national. Our interests are otherwise also fully provided for in the Community proposals which we have accepted. Another institutional question of the number of vice-presidents for the Management Committee of the European Investment Bank remains to be settled.
The Community have agreed to our request that the Irish language should be designated as an official language of the enlarged Communities. Provision has been made, as we suggested, for determining the extent to which Irish versions of Community texts will be prepared. There will be an authentic version in Irish of the Treaty of Accession together with official Irish versions of the EEC, EURATOM and ECSC Treaties.
An information/consultation procedure has been agreed between the Community and the applicant countries which will cover the interim period between the conclusion of the negotiations and the date of accession. Under this procedure, each applicant country will be informed of all proposals coming before the council which could lead to decisions and they will be able to have consultations with the Community on any such matters which are of interest to them. Consultations will be at senior official level but provision has been made that, in the event of serious difficulties still existing after such consultations, the matters can be raised by an applicant country at ministerial level. This information/ consultation procedure will also apply in the case of proposed decisions by the applicant countries during the interim period which could have an effect in so far as their obligations as future members of the Communities are concerned.
In connection with the forthcoming opening of negotiations between the Communities and those EFTA countries which have not applied for membership, the Community have proposed procedures, which we have accepted, to enable the applicants to be associated with the preparation and conclusion of the arrangements with these countries. A multilateral meeting between the Communities and the applicant countries will be held on 3rd November, to discuss the draft man-date to be given by the Council to the Commission for the negotiations.
The Community have agreed to our request for a one-year period to enable any necessary modifications to be made in the proposed Irish system of value added tax to bring it into line with the Community system.
The two major outstanding issues in the negotiations, so far as Ireland is concerned, are the questions of fisheries and animal and plant health regulations. I hope—and I have so informed the Community—that it will be possible to reach agreement on these matters without delay. I have further suggested to the Communities that we should aim at the conclusion of the negotiations as a whole in time to enable the Treaty of Accession to be signed by the end of this year. The Community have accepted fully that it is most desirable that the negotiations should be concluded as soon as possible with a view to the signing of the Treaty of Accession at the earliest opportunity. It is expected that, to this end, work on the drafting of the Treaty of Accession, which is now well under way, will be intensified shortly.
May I put a supplementary question to the Minister in view of the very special circumstances of Mayo and Connacht generally where there is widescale unemployment, and, as the most recent statistics prove, a serious decline in population. May I ask the Minister if the special circumstances of these regions are being considered and the problems of these regions being pursued actively in Brussels with the EEC authorities and, if so, with what success?
I can assure the Deputy that every Government action and legislation that is operating and action that is being undertaken and proposed would be consistent with the regional policies of the EEC, for the areas that the Deputy mentioned particularly.
Does that allow us to continue our existing regional policy?
Yes, our existing regional policy.
And aids here?
Yes.
Indefinitely?
Yes. This is the whole purpose of the Protocol. The main achievement of the Protocol is that we are guaranteed that our existing aids and incentives will continue, legislation stands and that if in the future there is any change, our position will not be diminished in regard to what assistance, aids, incentives we give in furtherance of our regional policy.
Does that mean continuance without limitation as to time?
What I said obtains without limitation as to time. That is the purpose of the Protocol.
I find the Minister's reply incredible. Would the Minister accept that there is no assurance whatsoever and, indeed, no reference whatsoever contained in the text of the Protocol—which contains three paragraphs of the most vague generalities —to the export tax reliefs or to their continuance or to their adaptation, beyond an assurance contained in the statement of the Communities themselves in reply to Dr. Hillery? It says merely here that these schemes will come up for examination under Community rules after accession and "I note, of course, with satisfaction"— I quote the reply of the Minister—"that you recognise the necessity for an incentive policy in Ireland but that questions may arise about the particular form our schemes for incentives have taken while we have been outside the Community"? Would the Minister, therefore, agree, in absolute honesty, that this Protocol contains absolutely no assurance that Irish export incentive schemes will be continued after the date of accession, which is relatively near, and that, therefore, Deputy Hillery has, frankly, perpetrated an immense deception in terms of what he has negotiated in Brussels on the basis of the document circulated here and published, I might say, with most misleading headlines in some of the national newspapers last week?
I want to reply to this because the sort of language used by Deputy Desmond is doing an enormous disservice to employment in Ireland. I would expect spokesmen on behalf of the Labour Party to be concerned about employment in Ireland. We are concerned about employment and our legislation stands. As long as this sovereign Parliament has it on the Statute Books as legislation, it stands. That is the achievement of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Our legislation means that in 1990——
(Interruptions.)
We cannot have a debate on the EEC on this question.
The Minister dealt with a number of questions. I think it is appropriate. It is a most serious matter. Would the Minister please inform me——
Until 1990 our export tax reliefs stand as long as this is legislation.
There is no such agreement. A Cheann Comhairle, I am charging the Minister with deceiving the House. Put this straight on the record, that there is absolutely no agreement that our Irish export incentives have the approval of the Community for continuation until 1990. The Minister knows it.
The Deputy knows that we are the sovereign Parliament in this respect. This legislation stands and the reliefs and incentives guaranteed in that legislation stand for the benefit of employment in Ireland.
Until we go into the EEC.
Until we go into the EEC.
Anybody who says otherwise is damaging the country's interests.
The Minister is trying to sell the country down the drain.
Does the Minister agree that the special Protocol which he mentions does not mean specifically that we can continue tax free concessions on new industries after we enter the EEC?
Of course.
I did not suggest that. What I was at pains to mention was that——
The Minister mentioned ones equally effective which is a different thing.
——our legislation stands and whatever amendments and changes are made in the future there will be no diminution in the attractiveness of our incentives to industrialists coming here. Furthermore, as long as that legislation stands on our Statute Book industrialists coming in here will have every guarantee under it until 1990.
Is the Minister aware that in the West of Ireland generally and particularly in Mayo there has been a very large investment in housing, water and sewerage schemes and so forth down through the years and in order to save these towns there is an urgent need for the provision of employment. Will special consideration be given to these factors when the position has been looked into in Brussels?
This can be done under our regional policy. The point the Deputy has raised is a matter very close to my heart unlike some of the other sabotage contributions we have had.
(Interruptions.)
The Labour Party wants to sabotage the creation of jobs.
The Government have sabotaged them already; we cannot do anything.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I wish, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
I am delighted. I should like to have this one out with the Deputy. I hope the Chair accords that request.
14.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he has come to any agreement in the negotiations with the EEC relative to the safe-guarding of the Irish fishing industry.
There has been no agreement in the negotiations on the question of fisheries. The Community has yet to put proposals to us and to the other applicant countries.
15.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs what special terms or concessions he succeeded in negotiating for this country over and above those secured by other applicants.
We have been concerned in the negotiations, as have the other applicant countries, with seeking arrangements appropriate to our own particular interests and needs. The Deputy will, therefore, appreciate that a comparison such as he has in mind does not arise.
In a case such as ours where we have the lowest percentage income of any member or applicant member of the EEC, the highest percentage of population engaged in agriculture and a very small economy, our Minister should have been in a position to get special concessions. According to the Minister's reply, no special concessions appear to have been secured over and above those secured by the other applicant countries.
We have secured and maintained our outstanding position in regard to the 100 per cent remission on profits from the export tax incentive scheme which all parties here are agreed upon has been beneficial to industry. We have maintained that situation——
You have not.
——and that was a most important thing for the Minister for Foreign Affairs to achieve.
You have not achieved that.
You have not achieved that.
Have we received any advantages for our most important industry, agriculture? Has the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries visited Brussels once since negotiations started? Is either the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries or the Government interested in the plight of the farmers?
In regard to the farming community I do not have to dilate on that matter because everybody knows the facts of life; from 1st January, 1973, working up to the end of the five year transitional period we shall reach a situation where farming prices will increase by 50 or 60 per cent in regard to beef, lamb, mutton and dairy products.
Have the negotiations not been far more favourable to Britain who wants cheap food from Ireland than they have for us? Is it not true as far as the farmers are concerned that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries have let them down and Britain are getting the advantages?
Deputy L'Estrange must be speaking with Deputy FitzGerald's voice in this matter because I had understood that the Fine Gael Party, with due political regard to its rural base, was all in favour of supporting the Common Market for very practical reasons which would benefit the agricultural community.
(Interruptions.)
Why did the Minister for Foreign Affairs look as though he was going to his doom when he flew off last week?
If we had Ministers capable of negotiating properly we could have got advantages.
The Deputy should not look so doomed. The Labour Party is in very bad form today.
The Labour Party is doing all right unlike you fellows.
The Minister is in both camps at the one time; he is doing all right.
One camp.
16.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the general terms of the non-preferential agreement being worked out between the Argentine and the EEC; and what significance, if any, this may have for this country's meat trading position within the EEC.
I understand that a trade agreement between the EEC and the Argentine will be signed in the very near future. Pending signature, the terms of the agreement are confidential as between the parties to it.
A few moments ago we were a sovereign Parliament but the terms of the agreement are confidential; in other words, the Minister knows them but he will not tell Parliament what they are.
The Deputy cannot get over the fact of life which means a 50 to 60 per cent increase in all agricultural produce——
In food prices.
——when we get into the EEC.
I certainly cannot —50 to 60 per cent increase in unemployment.
17.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs what this country's position will be in respect of British deficiency payments on meat and livestock during the transitional period following entry to the EEC.
While final details of the transitional arrangements in the agricultural sector have yet to be settled, I do not expect that there will be any major change in the position of Irish exports of meat and livestock in relation to the British deficiency payments during the period after Ireland's accession to the Communities when these payments are being phased out.
Can I take it from the Minister's reply that they will be phased out during the transitional period?
Yes. We shall then be part of the Common Market agricultural scheme of things.
18.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs what aspects of Ireland's present system of tax allowances for industrial development are likely to be raised as questionable under the Treaty of Rome; and whether similar difficulties are likely to arise for the UK.
There is no evidence to suggest that our system of tax allowances for industrial development would be regarded as questionable under the Treaty of Rome.
Is the Minister aware if any similar difficulties are likely to arise in the case of the British application?
In regard to the British application?
Yes.
We are making our case; we are not making the British one. That is their business.
I do not know the British position. Does the Minister know it?
We have made our case. We have fought our corner. We are fighting very well.
The Minister is fighting for Deputy Hillery both here and outside.
We are not talking about the party meeting. We are talking about the EEC negotiations.
19.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, as a result of the recent negotiations in Brussels this country's right to continue to give industrial grants at the same level as at present has been guaranteed.
We have satisfied ourselves in the negotiations that our industrial grants are compatible with the EEC Treaty.
In the third paragraph on page 2 of the statement by the Community delegation circulated today it states that if this examination were to reveal that it would not be possible to retain any particular aid in its existing form it will, in accordance with the rules of the Treaty, fall to the Commission to determine the appropriate delays and transitional procedures. That is the sole concession given to our country in respect of existing tax incentives although they are contrary to Article 92 and 94 of the Treaty as at present.
All I can say is that I have greater confidence in the ability of Irishmen, no matter what Irishmen occupy these benches, to do their job well once we get into the EEC.
The relevance of the Minister's reply escapes me. Does the Minister accept that in respect of existing Irish industries it may be possible, provided the Irish Government pays a direct subsidy to such firms, that they can continue to avail of the benefits of existing legislation until 1990 but that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Government have been told in no uncertain terms that existing legislation cannot continue to apply under any circumstances to new industries coming into this country after the date of accession?
Earlier on I used the rather rough word "sabotage" and I do not like using rough words. The Deputy is continuing in this way because the fact is that the legislation guaranteeing export tax relief until 1990 stands. The Protocol means that it stands and is available to any industry that wants to establish itself and give jobs to our people here. Any change in that situation can only arise because of a decision of this Parliament.
On the Friday before our Minister for Foreign Affairs was to go to Brussels the Commission published an announcement that our reliefs and grants to industry were not compatible with the Treaty of Rome.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs was so successful——
He did not look that way when he was going. He looked as if he was going to his doom.
I am calling Question No. 20. Could we make an effort to proceed with questions? We have 350.
I would appeal to the House to be responsible in this matter.
I am entirely responsible. It is the Government who are being irresponsible.
This is a very serious matter. It concerns jobs for our people.
May I ask the Minister a highly responsible question? How does the Minister reconcile his answer with the statement made by Deputy Hillery in Brussels? The statement is as follows:
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the question would arise in this connection of the commitments which we had previously entered into. We shall, of course, have to honour these commitments but we shall be ready to discuss in all its aspects the changeover to whatever new system...
In effect, Deputy Hillery is accepting that existing Irish legislation is incompatible, that he must honour the commitments already entered into and that he will have to pay to export industries in this country quite substantial sums in order to maintain these commitments and that he cannot give this to new industries coming in. That is all I want; the Minister should be honest and this Protocol——
We cannot have a full debate on these questions relating to the EEC; it is not in order.
This matter is so serious that in case it should emanate from this House that there is any substance whatever in the totally irresponsible words used by Deputy Desmond, I want to emphasise factually and totally that as far as our legislation is concerned, leaving aside the grants aspect and talking of export relief on profits from exports, as far as that is concerned up to 1990, that legislation stands for every existing industry and every industry that wants to come in here until this national Parliament changes that situation.
The Minister has now conceded——
The Deputy may ask a question. He is making a speech.
Would the Minister agree that he has now conceded the very point I was making, that the export tax relief legislation applies to existing industries? Would the Minister accept that it can apply only to those industries which come in up to the date of accession——
No, I did not say that. Again, for the record—I think it is ridiculous to be replying to the Deputy because he is only damaging jobs and employment in this country— as far as the future is concerned that legislation stands and anybody coming in here to establish an industry here to create employment has the full guarantee of that legislation until 1990.
Until the date of accession only, would the Minister not agree?
That does not arise until 1990.
(Interruptions.)
It is just the same as the other guarantees.
That stands until this Dáil decides to change it.
Until the Constitution is changed.
All these people want to do is sabotage. If the Labour Party want to sabotage jobs that is their business. If this is what the Labour Party is about we know why they are where they are.
(Interruptions.)
20.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will state when the Government's White Paper on the outcome of the negotiations for EEC membership will be published.
As previously indicated, the White Paper will be published as soon as our negotiations have been concluded. It is expected that the negotiations will have been concluded before the end of the year.