Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 25 May 1972

Vol. 261 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 8: Public Works and Buildings (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.

—(Deputy L'Estrange.)

Mr. Kavanagh

When I reported progress I was dealing with the use of the Asgard as a training vessel for young people who want to learn the art of sailing. I congratulated the Parliamentary Secretary and the Office of Public Works for allowing this vessel to be used for this purpose. This is admirable training for young people and many of them would never get an opportunity like this if it were not for this scheme. The boat is, unfortunately, somewhat small. Perhaps at some stage in the future a second vessel could be acquired and made available for this purpose. Money spent in this way would be well spent. The sum involved here is small, £6,000. I know that young people are very enthusiatic about this. I know that my own town of Wicklow has applied for the use of the vessel for the young people in the area. Possibly a better solution would be to take young people from different areas for training. This would give them an opportunity of meeting one another under very admirable conditions. This is a very historic vessel and I know that it is fully committed for this year. Doubtless the commitments will grow in the future. That is why I suggest the acquisition of a second vessel.

With regard to ports and harbours, a number of fishery harbours have been constructed. This work is hampered to some extent by the conditions laid down in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. No harbour authority will get money for reconstruction or repair work unless they can prove to the Office of Public Works that the harbour will be used by some trading concern and will be a commercially viable proposition. Most harbour authorities cannot say in advance exactly what trade they may get as a result of reconstruction or repair. The commercial aspect of a port is enhanced if the port is in good repair and trade can be directed to it. I am thinking particularly now of ports like Arklow and Wicklow. Deputy P. Brennan referred to these earlier today. A certain amount of work has been carried out by the Board of Works but a great deal still remains to be done. The fact that ports and harbours must prove that they are commercially viable before any work is done has an inhibiting effect.

In speaking of coast erosion in the Kilcoole area I should have mentioned that the work done on the railway line by the sea there has affected the drainage in the area. According to my information, when the railway line is repaired the drainage of land in the area becomes more difficult. Some years ago when a survey was made with a view to draining the land in the Kilcoole area I believe the cost estimated on that occasion was very large, around the £1 million mark. That was regarded as excessive; perhaps funds of that order were not available but some programme to alleviate flooding in that area will have to be undertaken at some stage. I think some smaller scheme would be of great assistance. Flooding is now taking place at times when it was unknown years ago. I urge the Parliamentary Secretary to re-survey the Kilcoole area with a view to eliminating that flooding.

I wish to mention a matter in which I have a personal interest because in later years I did get an opportunity to play golf. It is regarded by many as a game for the better-off class in the community. The Fianna Fáil Government have claimed that we are all a great deal better off in recent years and perhaps this is so in a number of ways. In any case, more and more people are anxious to play particularly in Dublin city. The problem is due to lack of space and lack of accommodation in existing golf courses and the very few golf courses that are being constructed in the area. Land is the real problem. Its availability for housing and other such purposes must come first but there are areas suitable for nothing else except this type of activity. There are also areas where, perhaps, we would not like any housing which would spoil the amenity such as in the Phoenix Park area.

Some years ago there were plans in the Parliamentary Secretary's office for the construction of a golf course in the Phoenix Park. I heard no reference to it in the introductory speech this year but I think the project should be expedited. The type of person trying to get into the game in the city has no opportunity of doing so and is finding his way down as far as where I live and trying to get in there. He is prepared to travel that distance to indulge in this game. I know others who go to Carlow, Baltray and so on. An effort should be made to accommodate such people in the city. The game is expanding tremendously and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will make every effort to accommodate these people. As in so many other cases, one requires push and pull to get into golf clubs and the number of vacancies is limited. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will endeavour to open such municipal courses such as exist in every other country in Europe so that people can have a game of golf without having to pay an exorbitant sum to become a member of a club. These large membership fees are put there to prohibit the class of people I want to see playing golf. Sums such as £1,500 are required to get into city clubs and this is just intended as a barrier to prevent people applying.

I think the Parliamentary Secretary has the interests of the people at heart and I hope he will press on in the future to make more space available close to the city that can be converted into golf courses. This would also provide a tourist amenity by giving cheap golf in an area such as Dublin where golf has become far too expensive for visitors. People are being asked to pay upwards of £1.50 for a round of golf in the larger and more popular clubs and even in smaller ones a game costs more than £1 any afternoon. In the Isle of Man and other similar holiday areas the idea is to have the game available for 50p or 75p and that should be our aim. This can only be done by having municipal golf courses.

In conclusion, I ask the Minister to make a strong effort to provide two or three municipal courses throughout the country not only for visitors but for local people also. I have dealt with most of the problems I wanted to mention.The work being done by the Department is being carried out expeditiously since I have been in this House and I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and his officials on the way they are doing their job.

Deputy McLaughlin and Deputy Timmons rose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy McLaughlin.

Mr. Timmons

I have sat in the House since 10.30 and I should like a ruling from the Chair. The previous speaker was from Labour.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Before Deputy Kavanagh from the Labour Party there were two Fianna Fáil speakers. Deputy McLaughlin.

Mr. Timmons

I was here most of the day trying to get in and I have not very much to say——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair appreciates that, but I am sure the Deputy will also appreciate the Chair must rotate the speakers.

Mr. Timmons

I am suggesting that the Chair has disregarded the normal procedure.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair is not disregarding normal procedure.The speakers today have been Deputy Flanagan, Deputy Dowling, Deputy Brennan and Deputy Kavanagh.

Mr. Timmons

I am most disappointed with the ruling of the Chair.

Mr. McLaughlin

The Minister, the Parliamentary Secretary and their staff have a big responsibility, but I am rather disappointed as also are other speakers on all sides of the House at the amount allocated to this Department.In 1966-67 almost £19 million was allocated to the Board of Works. This year the amount is down to approximately £12 million. This is disappointing in view of the increase in costs.

Mr. Lemass

I should like to say that in the leaflet circulated to Deputy L'Estrange in reply to his own question, inadvertently, the figure reads as 18 million. It is actually only eight million. It is a mistake in the machine. I intend to explain that later on. It reads like 18 million.

Mr. McLaughlin

Having regard to the number of schemes on hand and the increased costs a provision of £12 million is very small. One must consider the 80,000 unemployed. In order to provide employment the Parliamentary Secretary's office should spend as much money as possible.

There is a great demand for money for drainage. There are two schemes in operation, the local improvements scheme and the arterial drainage scheme. I have said before and I repeat that there is a wide gap between the two schemes. One of these schemes deals with smaller type works where a group subscribe portion of the cost and the balance of the money comes from the Office of Public Works. The Parliamentary Secretary and his staff should consider schemes which are not covered by the arterial drainage scheme or the local improvements scheme. Arterial drainage schemes take a long time in preparation. Fifteen years ago I came on a deputation in connection with the drainage of the Bonet. We were told that it would take ten years. Ten years passed and we came back about two years ago and indicated the storm damage that had occurred as a result of which people in a 20 mile radius had lost their crops and their property. We were told that plans were being prepared and that everything would be done to expedite the matter. I would venture to say that if I called again to the office I would get the same reply. I realise that it takes time to carry out drainage work but after a lapse of 15 years one would expect something more concrete than replies to the effect that the matter is being dealt with.

There was a by-election in Roscommon seven years ago and we were told that the Shannon was about to be drained, that it would be drained immediately after the by-election. The Shannon has still to be drained.

It is impossible to get a group of farmers to embark on schemes involving hundreds of thousands of pounds. I refer to schemes that would come between arterial drainage schemes and local improvements schemes. There are rivers which could be described as middle type rivers which have never been cleaned since the Local Authority (Works) Act schemes were suspended. I do not know under what other scheme these rivers could be dealt with. There is no relief for persons affected by the flooding of these rivers. Even if the arterial drainage of the Bonet were carried out within six months it would not provide any relief for some of the areas I have in mind. A local improvements scheme, on the other hand, is too small to deal with these rivers. I have in mind a river flowing through Lurganboy. Severe damage is done in this area by flooding.

I would stress the urgent need for schemes that would cover that type of river. If these schemes are not provided I do not know when the people concerned will get relief from flooding. The river Bonet causes severe flooding. I will call to the Department soon to see what progress is being made. I come from the area and know the damage that is done. I have told of the meetings held and the demand for help. Nothing is done.

The Shannon borders County Leitrim and County Cavan and in one severe flood fodder was destroyed. In some instances livestock have been lost. Money spent on drainage would give good dividends. Colossal loss is incurred by many small farmers who are making a great effort to live in these areas.

Choking occurs in rivers as a result of timber falling into them. I would recommend that grants should be made available for the removal of this timber. It would be impossible for local groups to make themselves responsible for relieving the choking of rivers. The county council are out of the picture now. I would request the Parliamentary Secretary to consider allocating more money for those schemes and including this sort of middle-class river in some type of scheme. We get many complaints about the condition of schools in rural areas. There are 3,939 national schools in the country and 650 of those have not got an electricity supply. The majority of those would be in the rural areas. They should be provided with an electricity supply. In rural areas today some of the old parochial halls are out of use and the schoolhouse could be used as a community centre and a place for meetings or functions of the ICA, et cetera. The school would not suffer in any way. The Parliamentary Secretary should have all schools provided with electricity supply immediately.About 1,200 schools still have open fires. Most homes in the country have cookers or something other than open fires. If we cannot provide some other means of heating, cookers should be installed in schools. They are clean and economical and they would be useful where there are 50, 60 and up to 100 pupils. A cooker would throw out much more heat than a hearth fire which usually sends most of its heat up the chimney.

There is quite an amount of work being done by the Office of Public Works. I see groups of people working on castles, on forts and on the rather peculiar graves or mounds we see in isolated places. It is good to see these things being preserved for future generations.

Garda barracks are an expensive item on the Parliamentary Secretary's agenda. I see there is a provision of £180,000 for new Garda barracks. That amount would not do much more than build a modern garda barracks in Sligo town, which badly needs one. The same applies to Manorhamilton. They have old stone flags and stairways there. In the last three years, particularly, our gardaí have been heavily pressed and they should be provided with comfortable accommodation.

Mr. O'Hara

The most efficient force in Ireland is in Sligo. I will pay them that compliment.

Mr. McLaughlin

They are very efficient in Sligo and all over the country.Comfortable schools are being built all over the country and the men who look after the law and order of the country should be provided with comfortable barracks. Young men in particular have had a rough time over the last three years. They were drafted towards the Border. They are out at night in all sorts of weather and a man who comes back to a barracks that is not heated after that sort of work is endangering his life. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will tackle this problem. I was in Sligo barracks one day and I said: "This barracks is calling out for a new one." There was a young man there who since met with a tragic accident and he said: "It is on the cards and I think it will not be long." I would not like to see it being put on the long finger for too long. Money spent on buildings like that would be well spent because those buildings will be always required and will be always used by men who are giving excellent service. When you go into a Garda barracks you see a bed in the dayroom for the barrack orderly who has to spend eight, nine or ten hours there at night. Comfortable accommodation should be provided for a man who must spend long dreary nights in a Garda barracks between October and April. Let us not forget that the force is very much under strength at present and members may have to do long and strenuous journeys. They should be comfortably accommodated.

We get many complaints about toilet facilities in schools. In many cases groups of people have to come together and subscribe to provide those facilities. That should not happen after 50 years of native Government.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy appreciates that the Office of Public Works can only do what the Minister for Justice, in the case of the Garda barracks, and the Minister for Education, in the case of schools, allocate for.

Mr. McLaughlin

Whoever is responsible for the matter should deal with it. The Office of Public Works provide valuable employment and they carry out many worthwhile projects. They do considerable work on the renovation and cleaning of ancient monuments and castles and this stimulates the interest of the local people.

In many remote parts of our country there are old cemeteries which have an ancient history. The Office of Public Works could do very useful work in improving these places and in carrying out repair work to the old ruined chapels that are located in some of these cemeteries. Any information that is available on the history of these places should be made known; in this way interest could be stimulated and the local people would take an interest in these historical places.

A major problem is the erosion that has occurred on our coastline. This has occurred to a considerable extent from Bundoran, along the Sligo coastline down to Ballina. Deputations have come from Mullaghmore and Enniscrone and from the Easkey area and they have made representations to the Office of Public Works regarding this problem.

We realise that the Office of Public Works must be practical about the way they use the money at their disposal and that the sum of £12 million is not a tremendous amount when one considers the amount of work that must be done. Conditions have changed very much in the past ten years; wages have increased considerably, the number of hours worked each day have been reduced and a five-day week has been introduced. We realise that the money allocated to the Office of Public Works will not be sufficient for all that needs to be done.

A most important point is the reduction in the allocation of money to county councils. Last year my county got the generous allocation of £100,000. I know that there are many calls on the money that is available. I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that the people of Leitrim and Sligo have availed fully of the local improvement grants that are available. In Leitrim there is a waiting list of about 1,000——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Local improvement grants come from local government. We are dealing with the Office of Public Works now.

Mr. McLaughlin

I should like to refer to the amount of money being spent by the Office of Public Works for the renting of premises for office accommodation. We have been told that a sum of £600,000 has been paid. This is an enormous amount of money and it could be better spent on the erection of offices. That sum can be regarded as money down the drain. If the Office of Public Works erected their own offices it would provide employment and it would give status to the towns where the offices were situated.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.

The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 30th May, 1972.