Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 5 Jul 1973

Vol. 267 No. 3

Adjournment Debate: County Galway School.

Dr. Loughnane

I wish to raise the subject matter of a question in relation to a primary national school in the area of Moyglass, County Galway, in the parish of Ballinakill, where there are four primary schools. Following a question from me to the Minister I got a reply regarding the rumour which went through the parish. The parents were not notified, nor the manager of the school, that it was intended to close the school but rumours spread rapidly and I put a question to the Minister for written reply and found it was provided that Ballinakill national school would cater for the pupils of Moyglass district. It was proposed to close Moyglass national school as soon as the necessary transport arrangements could be made to convey the children to Ballinakill. It was intended that the amalgamation should take effect on the date of re-opening of Ballinakill NS.

The parents of the area summoned the public representatives to a meeting. I attended the meeting at which the manager was also present. I have here an old jotter signed by every one of the parents and the signatures are good and clear. I am not an educational examiner by any means but all, or most, of the parents went to that school in their day. There are 38 children in this two-teacher school. Recently, the Minister has expressed —and I have read it—his intention of retaining two-teacher schools and even one-teacher schools if the parents and the manager so wish. I wondered why he would not apply that intention in Moyglass.

In my opinion, the methods of education are really a matter of opinion. I went to a number of schools and I am not educated, nor indeed can I talk on education, but I met people who were in these mixed schools and came out uneducated. I know of people who attained the highest rank from one-teacher schools. Indeed, the President of America, Abraham Lincoln, never went to school at all. Also, if you read Robert Service's poem, you would know of the parson's son who retired with a verse of Latin and awoke with a verse of Greek. So, education is only a matter of opinion. The Minister has stressed that he will adhere to the idea of considering the views of parents and manager. In this case all the people in the area have signed their names in this jotter asking that their school be retained. A week before that I read in the papers where a school similarly situated in County Monaghan had been allowed by the Minister to retain its present status. That is what I ask.

Minister for Education (Mr. R. Burke)

In reply to the question put to me by Deputies Loughnane and Callanan today I said that I was arranging, in consultation with the reverend manager of Moyglass NS, to have a senior inspector of my Department visit the area and meet the parents of the children attending the school to discuss the proposal for its amalgamation with Ballinakill NS. I said I would review the situation following that discussion. The papers in my Department did not disclose that there was opposition on the part of the parents. Certainly, I had no indication that there was strong parental opposition. The statement in the Deputy's question today was, in fact a reiteration of the information conveyed to me, as I said, by Deputy Hogan O'Higgins, which was, in fact, the first intimation that I had that the parents in general were opposed to the amalgamation.

My Department has in the normal way been treating with the manager in relation to the proposed amalgamation. I wish to give some details of that. The school building in question consists of two rooms erected in 1940. Improvements were carried out there in 1964 at a cost of £250. Moyglass is one of four two-teacher schools under the managership of Very Reverend Father Ó Murchú. The others were Drim, Ballinakill and Doire Uí Bhrian. Drim and Ballinakill were built in 1940 and Doire Uí Bhrian in 1893. In accordance with departmental policy on small schools at the time a Department inspector was asked, on 20th November, 1970, to consult with the manager about reorganisation of educational facilities in the parish and to furnish a report. In accordance with the inspectors' recommendations the manager was written to on 7th May, 1971, stating the Department's belief that, as a long-term project, a new central school to replace all the schools in the parish would be desirable. There was, in addition to the present four schools, also a one-teacher school, Cnoc Maol, in the parish. Interim rearrangement of schools as follows was suggested to the manager: Moyglass with Ballinakill and Cnoc Maol with Drim. It was proposed to effect the amalgamation as soon as prefabricated classrooms would be provided at Ballinakill and Drim. Cnoc Maol was, in fact, amalgamated with Drim on 1st July, 1972, when the Drim assistant resigned, thus obviating the need for an extra room at Drim.

On 16th June, 1971, the manager gave his agreement to the interim proposals of the Department. However, he expressed uncertainty as to the attitude of the parents and added that he would have to have time to ascertain their feelings during the summer vacation and ascertain whether a meeting of the parents, as suggested by the Department, would be necessary. He also stated that the Department would hear from him later. On 18th August, 1971, the manager said that Moyglass was "ripe for amalgamation" and, accordingly, it was assumed that the parents' consent was forthcoming. The manager requested priority for the extra room at Ballinakill. The manager indicated on 12th June, 1973, that the prefabricated room had been erected at Ballinakill and arrangements could accordingly be made for an early amalgamation and it was suggested that the amalgamated Ballinakill school would be a three-teacher school for 98 pupils, Ballinakill being approximately four miles from Moyglass.

It was stated here today that the manager is anxious to keep the school open. All I can say is that this is recent news to me: all the indications on my Department's file were to the contrary, which indicates why I replied as I did to a question put to me by the Deputies at the end of last month. I repeat here what I said earlier today and what I said on the Adjournment of the House on 13th June, 1973, at columns 446-50 of volume 226, that the closing of two-teacher schools is no longer an automatic process and that consultation with all the interested parties will take place from now on.

I certainly do not feel called upon to apologise for that attitude or to deny the parents of Moyglass school area the opportunity of having their views on the proposed amalgamation considered by me. I have already today stated in reply to Deputy Loughnane—and I ask him to accept the statement—that the matter referred to in Monaghan has no connection whatever with any possibility of a by-election. It is simply in pursuance of a new direction of policy which I announced in the Dáil on 13th June, a decision which was made on 11th June. That is a factual account of the situation as it rests now. The inspector will report to me and I will sympathetically review the situation on foot of that report.

Dr. Loughnane

I thank the Minister for his reply. The only thing is that the Minister has not got the local information——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may ask a question at this stage. The Deputy was allotted 20 minutes to make his case. He did not avail of that time, and he may now ask a question only.

Dr. Loughnane

Is the Minister aware that when he speaks of the manager, he is no longer the manager? I know this information has not been given to the Minister. Fr. Ó Murchú is no longer the manager of Moyglass school. He has handed the managership over to Fr. Heenan. Again, I thank the Minister very much for his answer and his interest in the situation.

Mr. Gallagher

Is it not fair to say that where amalgamations were taking place there has always been consultation with the parents and the managers of the schools? Why at this stage does the Minister say there is something new in his proposals regarding the closing of two-teacher schools?

Mr. R. Burke

I should like to thank Deputy Loughnane for the information which has been added to our knowledge of the situation. In reply to Deputy Gallagher, I wish to state what I stated on the night of the 13th June referring to a decision of mine, when I said that it illustrates the new approach of the Government to the question of amalgamation of schools that reorganisation will be pursued through discussion, advice and co-operation and not through compulsion in disregard of the views and wishes of the parents. That is the factual situation. Prior to that the policy would have been to take a decision in regard to these small two-teacher schools without having regard to the opinions expressed.

Mr. Smith

It is to me a very laudable thing for a Minister and a Department, especially the Department of Education, to have the closest contact with all the interests involved in primary education. At the same time, the Department is a very prominent and important element in this whole matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought the Deputy had a specific question to ask.

Mr. Smith

Yes, but one would think the Department should have a mind on the question of whether a one-teacher or a two-teacher school was the most desirable process by which youngsters could be educated. It seems to me now, just listening to all this, that nobody wants a free-for-all.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has yet not asked his question. I must refer again to the fact that Deputies interested in this question were allowed 20 minutes.

Mr. Smith

This is a very interesting question. I am interested in every school, but I have had these problems myself. I know the way in which they have been dealt with and I know the attitude of people. The Department of Education should have a mind on this matter. They need not enforce it entirely, but there seems to be a complete departure now from the thinking of the educationalists in the Department of Education as to the course that should be pursued in this primary education field.

Mr. R. Burke

If I understand the Deputy to be asking me the question whether the policy of the previous Administration, which would have been to draw the attention of managers in unmistakable terms to the then Government's policy which required that such schools should be closed, and then leave no option in the matter, if that is the question he is asking me——

Mr. Smith

That never was the policy.

Mr. R. Burke

That was the policy, and that is where the dispute arises between us. However, if, as I state, that was the policy, then that policy has changed, and I would take it from the Deputy's question to me that he welcomes that change.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 10th July, 1973.