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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Dec 1973

Vol. 269 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Vote 37: Agriculture (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a sum not exceeding £55,892,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1974, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain subsidies and sundry grants-in-aid.
—(Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.)

I was dealing with the Minister's statements regarding the activities of his Department in connection with sheep, mutton, lamb and wool. I pointed out that the incidence of sheep scab is still high. In the section dealing with animal health and veterinary research, it is stated that there were 76 outbreaks of sheep scab in 1972-73, as compared with 35 in 1971-72 and 81 in 1970-71. While they are an improvement on 1970-71, the figures for 1972-73 are double those of the previous year. This will be a source of great disappointment to the many sheep farmers who conscientiously comply with the provision to have their sheep dipped twice yearly. When the disease is discovered it may not be the fault of the farmer on whose land the animals are kept and I wonder if there are any means by which the previous owner could be traced. We have spent much time and money in combating this disease and I wonder how much longer it will take to eradicate it because we are led to believe it can be eradicated if all the farmers co-operate.

When speaking about sheep in Kildare one immediately thinks of the Curragh, a vast expanse of land nearly all in grass, producing as little as one could imagine under an Irish sky. The Minister might investigate this part of the country to see what could be done to increase production by way of land reclamation. While the Curragh is under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Defence, it is important to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries that every available acre be brought into production and this can be done in a number of ways on the Curragh.

Apart from the necessity for preserving the area the military require for their exercises, the important bloodstock industry is involved also. However, there is quite an amount of land that has nothing but furze and it has never been treated with fertiliser. The reason usually given for not utilising this area is that if the number of sheep on the Curragh are increased there will be a correspondingly higher traffic hazard on the road going through it. I understand from another Department that in the near future there may be a proposal to build a dual carriageway across the Curragh. While this is desirable, if fencing is not included a greater problem will be created. That can be dealt with on another occasion when we are discussing another Estimate.

It is true that the Curragh has a potential that has not been realised. The Minister, in co-operation with the Minister for Defence, should examine this matter and see what can be done to improve the situation. He might bear in mind the number of sheep on the Curragh and, perhaps, consider including them in the extension of the mountain lamb subsidy scheme. It may sound ridiculous to talk about the Curragh in the context of this scheme but the sheep reared on the Curragh are a mountain breed and they should qualify.

It is no harm for the Deputy to try.

I should like to thank the Minister for the increase in the mountain lamb subsidy and I hope that at a future date—perhaps in the next budget—he will remember the poor Kildare farmers. I referred to the bloodstock industry in connection with the Curragh. I know the Minister is very interested in this industry and it is not out of place to pay tribute to the magnificent work being done in the National Stud at Tully, Kildare. The manager has made a tremendous success of a very important job, and the ever-increasing number of visitors are enormously impressed. It seems rather ridiculous that the National Stud is under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Finance when, in fact, it should be under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. The Taoiseach might take a look at this some time and make some very desirable changes.

The National Stud is one of the places to which we bring visitors with pride in what we have to show them. The results from the stud are to be seen at race meetings and in the sales yards. The almighty dollar, the deutschemark and more recently the Japanese yen are very important currencies and a great deal of these currencies come through the National Stud at Tully, County Kildare. The manager there is certainly to be complimented not only on the work he has done but on opening up the place to the public to see. For years I passed by the main gates and did not know to where they led. The gates are open now and it is the pleasure of the manager to conduct visitors around the stud and let them see where their money is being spent, how it is being spent and the return they are getting for it. That is certainly as it should be.

In regard to disease eradication I should like to join Deputy Creed in his remarks regarding the danger of the spread of disease. There is one matter which I fail to understand regarding the warble fly. In his introductory statement the Minister said:

The vast majority of herd owners have complied fully with the statutory requirements relating to warble fly treatment. Legal proceedings were instituted against a number of persons who defaulted and, where appropriate, defaulters were debarred from the benefit under the beef cattle incentive scheme.

As I understood it, any farmer who failed to have his cattle dressed against warble fly was not given a certificate to attach to the "TD" card and consequently could not offer them for sale. If there are cases, and obviously there are, where the scheme has been evaded the greatest possible punishment should be inflicted on the persons concerned. As Deputy Creed has pointed out this scheme was undertaken a few years ago without much success. The effort was abortive because of the fact that it was not carried on for a couple of years longer and was not thoroughly carried out but for the last two years a very through dressing was carried out. The words in the Minister's statement "the vast majority" are not good enough for me. I hope that next year the Minister will be able to report that every farmer has undertaken dressing.

In regard to veterinary research I do not think I have to remind the Minister that farming at the present time is an occupation which requires an abundance of energy, technical skill and business acumen. There is one matter which is causing concern to farmers. There are certain drugs which a farmer can administer to his own animals. The farmers are worried that this facility may be removed from them and that they will be able to get the drugs only on veterinary prescription. That would be disastrous because all too often a farmer will not call in a vet until it is too late or the vet may not be available when he is called. If the farmer is allowed to have the drugs on hand and to administer them himself, time and money would be saved. Every animal life that is saved represents money to the farmer and benefit to the nation. I would ask the Minister to keep that aspect under close observation.

Horticulture is the cinderella of farming enterprises. We know and can understand that the great demand at present is for meat and the emphasis should be placed on increased production of meat, whether it be beef or mutton. The market is readily available. People are waiting with outstretched hands in England and Europe for all the meat we can supply to them. I would hope that the energy crisis would not prevent deliveries of meat to the Continent or to Britain and that every facility will be afforded to those engaged in the exportation of meat. There is another outlet for farming activity, horticulture, which is confined to a small area but which is lucrative. In 1971 there were 20,000 acres of vegetables produced in this county and only 6 per cent or 7 per cent of that total was exported as fresh vegetables. The total value of vegetables exported was £3.8 million. This is a figure that could be vastly improved.

In Britain alone in 1970, £354 million was spent on fresh vegetables, almost £1 million per day. The figure has been vastly increased since then. There is, as there was of old, the trouble in the horticultural section that they do not have the guaranteed price to offer to the producers. The Minister might take a look at this and see if and where it can be expanded. If I might make a suggestion to him as to one place where it could be very rapidly expanded, it is on some of our cutaway bogs.

The Almighty, when he was creating the world, did not give us a lot of minerals. Any country at present which could claim an oil well could feel happy. We do not have such an advantage. We are extremely lucky to have the bogs of this country. Possibly the light by which I am reading my notes is being produced from peat. It is extremely fortunate that we have such peat. I ask the Minister to ensure through his colleague, the Minister for Transport and Power, that the entire boglands are not burned to make light. By that I mean that sufficient peat should be left for the growing of crops.

This point is of great concern to the people working in bogland areas at the present time. They are worried about what will happen to them when the bogs are worked out. There need be no worry if the Minister ensures now that the vegetable-growing industry is started and gradually expanded over a period of years as the bogs are used to provide employment, light and power.

Not only do the bogs employ the Bord na Móna workers actually on them at present, but their employment potential is tremendous. The yield of vegetables on peatland is far higher than on mineral soil. I am absolutely convinced that, if arrangements can be made to market the produce, there is a ready market available not only in Britain but even on the Continent. At present England alone are importing fresh vegetables from anywhere they can get them. Let us grasp that market while it is there. Let us not miss the opportunity. If we do that we will build up an economy in that particular sector. We will also ensure that in whatever time lies ahead of Bord na Móna—and we hope it will be a long time but the supply is not unlimited—there will be employment for those who come after us. It will be of benefit to them and to the nation if such an arrangement can be made.

The Minister has seen the research station at Lullymore. He has seen what can be done. The surface is only scratched now. Bord na Móna have shown the Minister what can be done. Anyone who has taken the trouble to study it can see the potential is there. They have the "know-how". It is only a matter of somebody giving them the go-ahead and they will get on with the job. I will not be at all surprised if we become so preoccupied with looking to the bogs as a source of energy that we forget what will happen to them when they have been worked out. Now is the time to consider what should be done.

There is just one other point to which I want to refer. It is the rates allowance for employment. The Minister might examine that. It is a ridiculous figure. We realise that many farmers are becoming more and more dependent on family labour. Nevertheless, there are still a large number of people employed on the land and they are not getting anything like what they should get by way of pay in return for their hard work. They are getting as much and in many cases more than is laid down by the regulations, and also as much as the farmers can pay. It would be a very great gesture on the part of the Minister to have this allowance increased so that the farmers could retain their work force by giving them more pay. We want to see in Ireland, whether in industries in the cities or in agriculture, a situation arising which, without being frivolous about it, would be similiar to the situation in a cartoon in a magazine called The Grower of 14th July of this year. It shows a man arriving at the employment exchange looking for workers to help him to pick the fruit crop. In one hand he has a newspaper with the heading “Serious shortage of Pickers” and he says to the man behind the desk “If there is no unemployment in this area would you and your staff care to do a few days' picking?”. That is what we want to see. We do not want to see unemployment agencies or places staffed with people paying out unemployment benefit but rather a situation in which there would be no unemployment either in agriculture or in industry and in which the benefits accruing to the country would continue. It is to be hoped that the Minister, with his interest and knowledge of agriculture, will have another good year to report when he introduces his Estimate again next year.

Perhaps I might conclude by quoting the Minister's own words when he addressed the newly-appointed council of An Foras Talúntais on 6th September, when he said:

Finally, I think we can all agree that we stand on the threshold of exciting times in development of our agriculture and of our rural areas. The contribution of agriculture today to our national wellbeing is greater than it has ever been in our history.

I would like to take this opportunity of congratulating the Minister on his appointment to this very important Ministry. I knew the Minister long before I came into Dáil Éireann. Knowing his ability and knowledge of agriculture and of farming in general, I have no doubt but that, as Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, he will be a leader and an example for agriculture in this country. While the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, in so far as decision making is concerned, is not as important as it was before our entry into Europe, nevertheless it is important in that we must now have a Minister and a Department who are very much aware of what is happening in Europe and in the world. While major decision-making is not now a function of the Department there are other decisions to be made there, perhaps of a minor nature but nevertheless important. We must remember that while the number of people engaged in agriculture is decreasing, as it is in all countries of the world today, we now have a lesser number of people producing a greater amount than was being produced ten, 12 or 15 years ago.

Our entry into Europe has changed the pattern in so far as marketing and the financing of agriculture are concerned. The Minister and his Department have a major role to play in the implementation of the many directives which will affect agriculture and indeed will affect people engaged in industry and elsewhere. The implementation of these directives would seem to require much co-operation from large numbers of people and tremendous planning. It seems that in the future a very large number of farmers will be keen to participate in implementing EEC policy directives.

I should like to refer to the farm modernisation directive to which the Minister also referred. He said it has two major objectives—to provide for a selective system of aids to "development" farms and to regulate the type and level of investment aid which may be given to farmers outside the "development" category. The World Bank loan already in operation requires great documentation and great planning. This brings me to the advisory services in so far as they have to meet these commitments. Farm accounts are also involved under this directive. As time progresses our farmers are realising more and more the value of modern methods and are anxious to avail themselves of the incentives which are now available within the EEC.

There is a question as to whether the advisory service can meet their commitments. There is also a question in regard to specialised advisers for farm planning, farmyard planning, cattle housing, milking layouts, beef layouts and the many aspects of a good farming plan. Is our advisory service geared to meet those needs at present? Is it qualified to meet the needs in a specialist manner? Have we sufficient specialists in the advisory service? In the past the agricultural advisers have done a tremendous amount of work, but I wonder if the number of advisers being appointed by county committees of agriculture is keeping pace with the volume of work, which seems to increase as each day goes by. Apart from our entry into Europe the demand for the advisory service is growing and this is a good thing. It must continue to grow because, no matter what we say about industry, for a long time agriculture will be, as it has been in the past and is at present, the very bedrock of our economy. If agriculture fails the whole economy will fail. We can see the importance of a sound, well-trained corps of advisers. We must continue to work towards that and in that way we can compete with any of our European counterparts. Many of those countries have been held up to us in the past as examples, but I have no doubt that we have in this country farmers as good as, if not better than, some of their European counterparts. Our problem is that they are too few. We must bring up the mediocre farmer and the poor farmer to the highest level of the farming pattern in this country. In doing this we shall be helping the economy in a major way.

While the problem of the marketing of agricultural products confronted this country before our entry into Europe, it is not as great a problem now as it was then, in that markets are available. On the other hand, our responsibilities are as great, if not greater. We must, first of all, consider the question of processing our products. It is in the processing and, just as important, the presentation of our agricultural products that we failed and failed badly in the past. In the past our milk and beef products were literally dumped on any market we could get and left to work out their own salvation. Through the advent of the various marketing boards like Bord Bainne and the beef board, this aspect of it has been tackled. Through our different processing firms we can present a commodity which is attractive to the continental housewife or to the housewives in any of the countries where we market our products.

However, all this needs planning and specialist advice. This brings me back to the important role which our advisory service must play in the future. The Minister, as he has said in his brief, is considering many aspects of the advisory service, and I asked last year that a White Paper be issued on the restructuring of this service. I would like to hear what the Minister and his Departmental officials are thinking on the restructuring of this vital service to agriculture and ultimately to the community.

Many suggestions and many papers are presented to the Minister by the relevant organisations, farming organisations, county committees of agriculture and, indeed, the organisation dealing with the advisory service itself. I still think the Minister should issue this White Paper and let all the relevant associations come together and consider how the Department and all the other agencies can best serve the farmer by way of specialist advice and otherwise. I know the Minister says he has had sufficient information, but since the restructuring of this service is so important and since whatever new organisation has emerged will be with us for many years, a great deal of thought should be put into the question. The best brains possible should be picked so that we can have in the end an advisory service of which this country or any country can be proud.

The advisory service served the community well in the past. Many attacks have been made on the system, more especially as operated by the county committees of agriculture. No matter what has been said about the members of those committees, a great deal of worthwhile work has been done by them. What worries me at present is the question of control. These committees had one thing going for them: they had control of their destiny in their own counties. It is vital that we try to continue this control at local level in order to maintain the confidence of the farmers in the advisory service.

As a member of a county committee of agriculture, I have seen situations in which we had to wait months, perhaps closer on a year sometimes, for a decision which could not be made locally. This is what worries me in regard to the restructuring which is envisaged, and we must consider it very carefully. I would like to see the present committees continue, and I would like to see them having the same authority as they enjoy at present, if not more. Personally, I would like to see machinery being made available whereby these committees could have representation from the different farming organisations.

I can appreciate the problems involved when there are so many organisations dealing with different aspects of farming. There are the economic, educational and cultural organisations and, indeed, an organisation dealing with all aspects on a much wider basis altogether. It should not be beyond the capacity of the Department to devise ways and means of ensuring proper representation of farming organisations on the county committees of agriculture. The importance of authority at local level cannot be over-emphasised, first, so that decisions can be made on the spot and, secondly, so that we can maintain the confidence of the farming community in the advisory service, a confidence that took a long time to build up. I trust that the Minister will consider very carefully any change that may be proposed in relation to autonomy at local level. I acknowledge that the Department must retain certain controls but the level of this control should be as little as possible.

The Minister referred to the question of proficiency courses and award programmes that are being carried out by the advisory service in relation to specialised aspects of farming. In this context I am glad to note that Macra na Feirme are playing a vital role in the promotion of this programme. It is of vital importance that education in farming be a continuing process for any young boy who stays at home and hopes to inherit the family farm. Young farmers have available to them the agricultural colleges as well as the winter farm schools and the agricultural classes organised by the advisory service but this aspect is merely a drop in the ocean in so far as a general education in agriculture is concerned. I hope that these courses and also the proficiency award programme will continue.

We must make every effort to provide our young farmers with the skills required to equip them for modern-day farming while at the same time having regard to the various types of farming that are traditional in particular areas. Good farming methods and practices will ensure that our country can gain the greatest advantage possible by reason of the markets that are open to us in Europe and elsewhere.

In talking of young farmers' organisations I would like to compliment Macra na Feirme on what they have achieved in the sphere of education in agriculture. This organisation, working mainly on a voluntary basis, are carrying out work that is vital to the future success of our agricultural industry. Therefore, it was with regret that I read a newspaper report recently to the effect that the Minister is not considering an increase in the grant that has been made available to this organisation down through the years. Perhaps there have been some developments in this regard since I read that report but I appeal to the Minister to increase this grant and take a particular interest in the work being done by the organisation.

I know that the Minister has a keen interest in agricultural education and that is why I am confident that he will endeavour to solve whatever problems there may be as between the Department and Macra na Feirme. This organisation are appointing development officers and organisers and are organising the rural communities to be better members of the community. Their activities are not confined to the farming community. For these reasons any money that can be provided by the Department to help Macra na Feirme can be regarded as being money well spent. Perhaps when the Minister is replying he will have something to say in relation to this organisation.

Many Deputies mentioned the question of animal diseases and in particular their eradication. The Minister mentioned the increase in the number of reactors that have been detected as a result of the tuberculin test. This is a source of worry not alone to the Department but to the farmer. He has to suffer the loss when the animals are removed from his herd. The compensation paid by the Department is completely inadequate when one considers the cost of replacing, for instance, a dairy cow. The maximum amount which the Department can pay is £200. To replace that animal would cost nearer £300 or £350. The Department must set itself the task of eradicating this disease as quickly as possible. We must have disease free herds because the cattle industry is a very important industry.

The brucellosis eradication scheme is very important. As the Minister said, we are now living on borrowed time. How right he is. The fact that he mentioned this is proof, to my mind, that the Department are making very poor efforts to eradicate this disease.

I should like to comment on this scheme as it affects Limerick and neighbouring counties. The Minister said in Volume 268 of the Official Report, column 1451:

Outside the compulsory eradication area, herdowners have available to them a free breeding heifer vaccination scheme, a brucellosis certified herds scheme under which individual herds cleared of the disease are registered as brucellosis free and a new voluntary pre-intensive brucellosis scheme which aims to reduce the incidence of the disease in all the counties outside the brucellosis free and clearance areas. The new voluntary scheme is based on milk ring testing. It will permit herd owners to phase out their reactors gradually and with a minimum of disturbance to the economy of their holdings.

I take issue with the Minister on this. He goes on to say:

Herdowners are required to dispose of reactors for slaughter at whatever time best suits them. A headage grant is payable on slaughter of each reactor plus a further grant when all reactors in the herd are disposed of.

In the early days tuberculin testing was free to the farmer. I cannot see why this scheme which operates in Limerick and other counties cannot be free also. I previously mentioned the question of the replacement of animals purchased by the Department under the bovine tuberculosis scheme and that the compensation paid by the Department was inadequate. The Minister is asking the farmers to eradicate this disease on a voluntary basis. He is providing a headage grant once the scheme is completed. It may take six to eight years to eradicate this disease. The incentives are not good enough to ensure that farmers will avail of the scheme.

The Minister knows the importance to this country of animals which are free of disease, particularly tuberculosis and brucellosis. If the Department agreed to pay the costs of testing by the veterinary profession, it would go a long way to meet the demands of farmers and increase the chances of their participating in the voluntary eradication of this disease. It is important to advise and point out to the farmer the nature of this disease, the source of infection and the standards of hygiene required for its control. Milk ring testing is another problem. It is difficult to identify individual reactors. To put it mildly, the farmers are very dissatisfied with the incentives to dispose of brucellosis reactors. The Minister should give careful consideration to this scheme and look into the aspects of it which I have mentioned. They are important if we are to eradicate this disease.

As the Minister rightly pointed out —and it is worth repeating—we are really living on borrowed time because, in four years' time, we will have to comply with the full veterinary requirements of the EEC in regard to our domestic and export trade in live cattle. Therefore, we can see the necessity for speeding up the eradication of this disease. Provided the incentives are there, and provided we get the co-operation and goodwill of the farming community, we can speed up the eradication of this disease which is costing the country, agriculture in general, and farmers millions of pounds each year in the loss of milk and calves. I want to emphasise the importance of taking a fresh look at the eradication of the disease which affects the areas and the counties which are now doing it on a voluntary basis.

When one speaks about agriculture the subject is so wide and so varied that one can only pick out and deal with certain aspects. On the question of pig production the first thing one asks oneself is: is bacon production economic for farmers when one considers the ever-increasing cost of foodstuffs week after week? We have seen the number of sows which have been disposed of over the past 12 months because pig production is no longer economic for farmers due to increased costs in feeding stuffs and other overhead charges. We have seen the amount of grants which were made available down through the years for the erection of sow houses, fattening units, and so forth. I am afraid many of these houses will be empty in the future.

That is too gloomy a picture.

I accept that, but the Minister will agree that it must be considered carefully. He realises, as well as I do, the problem of the cost of feeding stuffs. I know that the price to the farmer for his pigs is outside the Minister's control. These are facts and it should be possible to do something to relieve the gloomy picture I have painted. Many aspects are now outside our control but we must approach the problem realistically and we must give the farmers who are in pig production some guarantee for the future. We must consider the price of feeding stuffs from abroad and particularly the protein feed prices such as maize and soya bean meal. The farmers who have continued to specialise in pig production and who have modernised their buildings are entitled to some guarantee and some hope for the future.

I come now to dairying. Being in dairying myself I hope I can speak with some authority. We all agree that, at long last, over the past 12 months our dairy farmers have been getting good prices for their products. In the dairying counties production is continuing and the herds are getting bigger. Milking facilities are being improved. We achieved this by our entry into Europe. Now our dairy farmers can enjoy a standard of living which heretofore they could not enjoy. Now that the Department no longer have to subsidise the dairying industry they can interest themselves —and again I come back to this important aspect of farming today— in providing specialist advisers in dairying. Although prices have improved costs are also increasing.

There is also, and rightly so, the important matter of producing quality milk. There is a problem in producing quality milk which is so important for the many milk products which are required on the British and continental markets. They can be produced only by having the highest standards of cleanliness and hygiene in our dairies and in the production of milk. Processors are continually seeking a better quality milk and it is a continuing difficulty for many of our dairy farmers in certain areas to produce this better quality milk. We have come a long way and we have made some major progress in this particular sphere but there is still room for improvement, particularly from the point of view of our having to compete with our European counterparts. Good quality milk depends to a very large extent on a good water supply. On some farms the water supply is very, very poor and the prospects of getting a good supply are not particularly bright. Incentives are just as important here as are the incentives in other agricultural spheres. Our farmers should be encouraged and advised in regard to the matter of better water supplies because in future only the highest quality milk will be accepted.

Rationalisation of our dairying industry is progressing satisfactorily. It took a good while and there were many difficulties to surmount; some were real and some were imaginary but good progress was made over the past two to three years under the Minister's predecessor. There are still some problems to be solved. I believe the Minister has both the capacity and the ability to solve these problems and surmount any difficulties that arise in relation to the rationalisation of the dairying industry in the same way as his predecessor surmounted difficulties and solved problems.

When rationalisation has been successfully completed there will be still other problems to solve. Bulk collection is now an everyday occurrence. Unfortunately, many of the roadways and entrances to farms are not in a fit condition to take this bulk transport and the possibility is that the farmer will be involved in some cost here. There is a certain amount of controversy as to the best type of tank. I read a report in the Press recently and I understood from that report that An Foras Talúntais has made a study of bulk tanks in the Cork district last year. I do not know if the Minister has seen the results of this study. I would think that they should be made available to the advisory services and to farming organisations. Some processing plants favour one type of bulk tank and some favour another. If there is a cheap tank quite suitable for the purposes it is designed to serve we should be told about it.

Difficulties arise from the point of view of power. Some of the lines are not capable of carrying the necessary current. All these things affect the dairying industry, its modernisation and its rationalisation. If we modernise properly we will be able to compete successfully, but we will be able to compete successfully only if all the requisite facilities are made available to the farmers. The remaining problems must be tackled by the Minister and his Department in the realisation that only by a proper system of farming on the most modern lines possible can this country hope to achieve its targets in the European Economic Community.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 11th December, 1973.
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