Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Jun 1974

Vol. 273 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate:Dublin Bus Strike.

Mr. Dowling

I am aware that the Minister met the representatives of the various unions today. I am not aware of the outcome of those discussions. I hope they will put an end to the present conflict by obtaining a willingness from both sections to come to an early agreement.

On radio and television today the Minister painted a very depressing picture. There is grave public disquiet because of the flippant manner in which the Government have treated this dispute. Efforts have been made to bring it to an end, but not in a serious way. Many people have to walk to work. Shopkeepers in the centre of the city are on the point of closing. Jobs are at risk. Many trade unionists are on, or about to go on, short time. Dublin workers are complaining because they are losing money as a result of "lates" and short time and because there is no alternative transport. As I said, this is a very depressing situation.

This Dublin Government should be close to the people of this city but their actions and statements show that they are far removed from the realities of the situation. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of many Ministers. I am glad to see the Minister for Transport and Power here because he and CIE have a responsibility for the bus strike and they cannot divorce themselves from this responsibility.

The impression was created that the Minister did a disservice to his union, and that the union was embarrassed by the lackadaisical manner in which he acted. The fact that he is a member of a union has given rise to the suggestion that he is biased when taking action in relation to the position as he sees it from his union's point of view, as distinct from the point of view of a Minister.

This is an inter-union dispute. Such disputes are not settled in the normal course; therefore, the action taken to settle them differs from the normal course of action. The Minister can be relied on to make certain suggestions with a view to settlement. He must face up to these difficulties because that is what he is paid for. When in Opposition he had a cure for every ailment, from bald heads to bunions. Now that he is in Government the situation is different.

The workers of the city cannot afford to suffer much longer. Action must be taken. We realise the difficulties which exist with regard to the provision of Army transport. The Government should give some consideration to providing alternative transport for workers living on the perimeters of the city and some distance from their places of employment. Alternative transport must be provided if they are not to lose money because of "lates" or short time.

The Minister for Local Government spoke today about one of the many strikes in operation at the moment. Because the bus strike was the result of an inter-union dispute the Minister tried to brush it aside. I sympathise with him because I know the difficulties he faces in trying to find a solution to a dispute of this kind. Consideration must be given to the overall position. On previous occasions Army lorries provided a commuter service. The security situation must be kept under review. If transport by Army lorries from the perimeter areas to the central areas are provided, this will ensure that life in Dublin will be maintained, jobs are secure and the people at risk at the moment will find themselves in a happier position.

This dispute must be solved by consultation, assistance and advice. There are principles involved and they must be respected. The only thing to which the people can look forward as a result of this strike is an increase in fares. Because of the strike substantial losses have been incurred.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a separate matter. The subject matter of this debate is the bus strike.

Mr. Dowling

This is a depressing situation. By now the Government should have realised the drastic developments which are taking place in Dublin. They should make an honest effort to ensure that the problems of the workers, trade unionists and large and small shopkeepers are examined and analysed. They must take action to ensure that life in the city can proceed in the normal way.

The Minister for Labour spoke about facilities at airports. Dubliners are more concerned about getting to and from their jobs and ensuring that they have full pay packets at the end of the week in order that their families can exist in a reasonable degree of happiness. That happiness is denied them at the moment. Therefore, I hope the Government will take action soon and that the Minister will continue in a more positive way to bring about an improvement in the situation and to bring about the termination of the strike by using whatever assistance, advice and judgment are necessary. The strangest feature about this dispute was the fact that CIE had to make a suggestion to the trade unions with a view to settling the strike. This is extraordinary in an inter-unions dispute.

I will not delay the House. Other speakers wish to contribute. I want to impress on the Minister that there is grave disquiet among the workers of the city because of the continuity of the bus strike. The Minister is probably limited in what he can do. The difficulties of an inter-union dispute are well appreciated. The Minister must realise that he is the man in the cockpit at the moment. He must make some decisions. They may be decisions which, if he were otherwise engaged, he might not be prepared to take. He must not await other developments. He must ensure that there is a climate in which there is a willingness to negotiate and that without any loss of principle the trade unions can come together to discuss the situation. Principles are involved on this occasion.

Mr. Moore

I do not know what progress the Minister made this evening when he met the leaders of the unions. I hope he made worthwhile progress towards a settlement. Whatever the merits or demerits, the situation proves to us the frightful conditions of human relations which exist in the public sector of our industries. It will be noted that our greatest troubles come from the semi-State bodies. The private sector do not suffer as many strikes. There is a reason for this. In this case the reason would appear to be the attitude of the Government towards this whole matter and the Minister's cavalier attitude to the strike. The fact is that the strike did not seem to be a serious upset to our citizens until very recently but the strike has caused serious hardships on the less affluent sector who do not own cars. The Minister cannot compel men to return to work if they do not want to.

The Minister, through the Department of Labour, has a serious onus on him to find ways and means of probing the real cause of this strike. He must then try to apply remedial action so that the men can have confidence in the Department of Labour. They are shedding this confidence all the time. Unless the Minister acts effectively in this case he and the Department of Labour will become irrelevant so far as industrial workers are concerned.

The Government should set up a council in which the Ministers for Labour and Transport and Power would meet with nominees from each of the three unions involved. They should examine the whole cause of the dispute. In the meantime the men should accept the goodwill and the word of the Government when they are told that the matter will be thoroughly examined and that big changes affecting the workers of CIE will take place. The men should go back in the meantime. In the interests of their fellow workers and of the citizens the men should go back in such circumstances, pending the result of such an inquiry.

Mr. Tunney

There is some old adage which speaks of it being better to travel hopefully than to arrive. While that might be applicable to the Minister in his ministerial position it does not apply to the many citizens who are finding it impossible to get to their destinations. We should thank the motorists who have been so willing to assist people but now many people find themselves having to spend a few hours travelling from the outer parts of my constituency to their city destinations.

There is much hardship on old age pensioners, many of whom as a matter of convenience collect their pensions in the centre of the city. They visit the GPO and then go shopping. They can be seen on the roads trying to make their way to the GPO. The Government have not been examining the position carefully. They should assist certain sections of the community and should at least indicate to the pensioners that their pensions will be payable at the nearest post offices.

In regard to schoolchildren, I see no reason why the Minister if he were interested enough should not have had consultations with the Minister for Education to arrange that the school buses which are already employed on that work should now be diverted to bring all children to their schools, especially those in the post primary sector who are about to sit for the most important examinations of their lives. The Minister says that this is an inter-union dispute. Having regard to the fact that the Minister knew how serious the matter was he should not, having regard to his known affiliation with one union, have entered into consultations or directed the Labour Court to investigate the position so early on in the strike. Having done that, there is now an obligation on him to make Army lorries available to the people of Dublin. When we debated this before the Minister said that that was a matter for the Minister for Defence. This would seem to indicate that the Minister had not concerned himself at all with the dispute. Listening to the Minister on radio recently I noted that he said that the Government had had plans to introduce Army lorries. If that were so, why did the Minister say in this House that this was not a matter for him but something that had to be done by the Minister for Defence?

It is not possible to say all one would wish to say within a few minutes. I say now to the Minister that he must settle this strike. We listened to him for many years offering the solution to all industrial ills; now the obligation is on him to settle this strike immediately.

Mr. E. Timmons

I would like to join with my colleagues in expressing public dissatisfaction at the apparent complacency of the Government in regard to the serious strike now affecting our city. I do not wish to discuss the merits and demerits of the dispute but to bring to the notice of the House the serious hardship which my constituents in north-east Dublin are suffering. These people are not able to get to their employment. Children are not able to reach their schools. People are not able to visit hospitals and clinics. They are expressing grave dissatisfaction at the apparent inactivity of the Minister of whom great things were expected in this Government.

It is regrettable that this semi-State company, CIE, have been bedevilled by a long history of trade disputes. A stage has now been reached where some consideration should be given to the setting up of an independent committee or a parliamentary committee to examine the whole structure of CIE. There should be an inquiry into their workings. The relationship between management and staff should be well researched. There are grounds to believe that there have been contributory factors——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time is almost up.

Mr. Timmons

It is time some action was taken to end this tragic situation which is causing such hardship to our citizens.

Minister for Labour (Mr. M. O'Leary)

This dispute arises from the fact that three of the unions involved object to the introduction by CIE of the five-day working week and to the new schedules attached to that five-day week. On the other hand, there is the situation that if CIE defer the five-day week the fourth union will take strike action. That is the impasse which has led to the dispute. It has not been resolved despite the many efforts made to bring about a settlement, including my personal intervention on two occasions, and the involvement of the Labour Court and the conciliation services.

As I said here on 16th May in reply to Deputy Dowling:

...Is should be possible, given a willingness, to isolate the agreement reached in principle on the introduction of the five-day week from the practical difficulties of operating schedules in the context of the five-day week.

I met the unions this evening to see if the present deadlock situation could be reversed and I shall resume these discussions at 11 o'clock tonight. It will not be a simple task to reverse this deadlock situation, as the course of the dispute clearly shows.

I have been concerned from the start about the effects of the strike on employment and about the hardship it has imposed on the general public, particularly the old and those attending hospitals and clinics. A great strain has been placed on the Garda at a time when they are already heavily committed on the security front.

Serious damage is being inflicted on the economic structure of the company. As each day passes relationships between those on strike become more poisoned and this will have longterm repercussions on labour relations in Córas Iompair Éireann.

I have been abundantly conscious of the gravity of the dispute from its commencement and it was for that reason, following a review of the situation with the chairman of the Labour Court, that I asked the court on 8th May to investigate the dispute. In my letter to the chairman I said I was concerned about the grave hardship caused by the absence of transport on the many thousands of workers who depend on public transport to reach their places of employment. It was for that reason I asked for a review of the situation with the chairman in order to get the court to intervene.

The investigation which followed by the court was, of course, a continuation of a long involvement by the court in the question of a five-day working week for Dublin busmen, negotiations on which had been in progress since 1964. There followed the Labour Court recommendation of 10th May, accepted by the Congress passenger group of trade unions but rejected by the National Busmen's Union. Arising out of the Labour Court's intervention a senior officer of the court, Mr. James McCauley, brought the parties together again on 14th May. When he reported that no progress was being made I myself held discussions with each of the unions on 15th and 16th May. The purpose of these meetings was to explore whether any common ground existed between the Congress group of unions, on the one hand, and the National Busmen's Union on the other. I reported to the Dáil in reply to the Special Notice Question tabled by Opposition Deputies on 16th May. In the course of my reply I said:

An examination of the protracted negotiations up to now...makes it clear that the five-day week was accepted in principle last November but the practical outcome of that decision in terms of schedules was unacceptable to many busmen. It should be possible, given a willingness, to isolate the agreement in principle on the introduction of the five-day week from the practical difficulties of operating schedules in the context of the five-day week. It is possible...to get a resumption of bus services by agreement on this method of reconciling differences.

My discussions at that time were followed by an initiative on the part of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions which resulted in a meeting between Córas Iompair Éireann and the group of unions on 17th May. The company also met the National Busmen's Union later on the same day. No general acceptable formula emerged.

At this stage there was a further intervention by Mr. McCauley and the Labour Court and on 22nd, 23rd and 24th May they held discussions with the unions on a formula which would be operative on the five-day week on a preliminary basis to be followed by a ballot. Again no agreement could be reached. On 16th May the chairman of the Labour Court took the unusual step of writing to the Press. In the course of his letter he said:

In spite of the best efforts of the public agencies concerned with industrial relations neither group of men is prepared to change its attitude.

On 16th May I undertook to continue my contact with the parties involved in the dispute. I have so continued and I and my officials have been in daily discussions with both sides in this dispute. I have been concerned at all times not to jeopardise the efforts being made to resolve this dispute through the normal industrial relations channels. Many of the initiatives taken and the efforts made to resolve the dispute took place without the knowledge of the public since their possible effectiveness could be negated by undue publicity.

I shall continue, as I am continuing tonight, to maintain a strong and determined attempt to bring the parties to a frame of mind which will allow a settlement to emerge.

The question of using Army lorries was raised. Deputies are as aware as I am of the serious security situation which makes this whole situation a far graver situation than that which existed in 1966. I would remind Deputy Tunney that, far from ruling out Army transport on 16th May, I said that, in a dispute of this kind, involving hardship for so many, consideration would always be given to such a service being provided. The Government took a decision on the provision of Army buses. There followed the tragic events of that weekend.

Mr. Tunney

Where are the buses at the moment? Are they in Dublin?

Mr. M. O'Leary

I am sorry. I should have said "Army lorries". At that time the use of Army lorries was not ruled out. I gave no affirmative answer, but I explained this was a constant consideration in a dispute of this kind involving hardship for so many. There was a Government decision taken to introduce Army lorries. That decision was negated by the events of that very tragic weekend.

It is ludierous to suggest — perhaps the suggestion is not meant seriously — that my efforts in this dispute are in any way biased by my membership of one of the trade unions involved. I act on behalf of the public with the public interest in mind. Deputy Dowling accepts the difficult situation with which we are faced. I am glad Deputy Dowling understands that in a matter like this agreement is a sine qua non of any settlement reached.

I do not see how anyone could describe our response to this serious situation as either flippant or cavalier. On any occasion on which a major initiative was taken by the agencies directly involved naturally it was not for me to intervene. That was my situation over the past few days while efforts to see whether a ballot could take place were proceeding. It was only when this latest attempt fell through that I came back again into the picture. The fact that I was asked to make a speech last Monday came in the normal course of my work. That appointment was made months ago.

I have given the Deputies opposite a fair account of the urgent steps we have taken from the very start of this serious dispute. We have been at all times energetic and active. Whatever else this dispute suffers it certainly does not suffer from any lack of activity on the part of the agencies concerned with industrial relations, on my part or on the part of my officials. As I said earlier, I am resuming discussions with the unions at 11 p.m.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 6th June, 1974.