I quite understand that. He supported the legislative declaration proposed by the Broadcasting Review Committee in lieu of section 17 of the Act of 1960. As I said in my opening statement, I am in sympathy with the general idea that the wording used in section 17 needs to be widened to go beyond:
restoring the Irish language and preserving and developing the national culture.
I welcome the general direction of the phrase used by the Broadcasting Review Committee which is:
safeguarding, strengthening and enriching the cultural, social and economic fabric of the whole of Ireland.
I am not saying I am committed to that exact wording but I want to go in that direction and I shall have quite a lot more to say on that subject later in this closing statement.
What I did question in my opening statement in this area is whether it is desirable that there should be a legislative declaration on the purpose of broadcasting in Ireland. It can be argued that it would be undesirable to lay down any fixed formula for the purpose, however comprehensive, since the flexibility required by broadcasting is best served by the freedom of the authority acting as public trustees. The matter is one which will need to be examined closely before a decision is reached and, of course, is of its nature a matter which we will have occasion to discuss here in debating the legislation which I propose to introduce on broadcasting later in the year.
On the question of open broadcasting Deputy Brugha considered that there is quite a difference between providing a complete external channel here and allowing cable television services to distribute external programmes. I agree that open broadcasting and cable television are not the same thing. However, there does seem to be a basic contradiction between the recommendation of the Broadcasting Review Committee that cable television should be allowed full freedom to develop and bring British programmes to Dublin and perhaps 30 other cities and towns and its objection to open broadcasting of British services. Again this is a matter to which I shall return at a later stage of the debate.
Deputy Brugha suggested that the true concept of open broadcasting if it is to be outside Ireland should relate not alone to Britain but to Europe. I would agree. In fact I would agree that ideally it should apply and maybe will apply some day not only to Europe but to the world but in practice, of course, with the present state of technology and other difficulties in communication there are all sorts of practical difficulties which seem for the moment to rule out open broadcasting within Europe. There are language problems, the small number of television broadcasting channels available, the limited range of present television transmitters—about 60 miles—the prohibitive cost of importing TV signals from distant countries by microwavelength or cable and so on.
I have tried to stress again and again, but the message does not seem to be received, and that is no doubt my fault, that open broadcasting is really a limitless horizon, a direction in which we want to go, if that is what we have made up our minds to do, but that there will not be any morning in which we wake up and say open broadcasting has now been achieved unless that is a moment when anyone any place can tune in to any station in the world. On that day we will be able to say open broadcasting has arrived. I want for the moment to achieve progress in a variety of choice, a real and acceptable variety of choice. I will come back to that again also.
Deputy Brugha expressed concern at the possibility of handing over a television channel to a foreign broadcasting corporation. I hope I can set the Deputy's anxieties, which I appreciate are real, at rest. There is no question of handing over control of a television channel. The Government, whatever happens, will retain ultimate control of all the Irish broadcasting network. There will not be interference from the day to day programme schedule if BBC is rebroadcast here but the Government will always retain the right to reallocate a second channel if something more central to our needs comes along. That will always be kept open and that has been made clear to those with whom we are negotiating in this area. There is no question of handling over control to anyone outside this country.
Deputy Brugha urged me to plan ahead with a view to providing through a new channel as wide a choice as possible to all regions of the country and of providing, if possible, RTE with alternative means of programme. He said the great disadvantage from which RTE suffer is the fact that they are restricted to one outlet only. I appreciate they are restricted in having only one television service and I also appreciate that their concern to have more than one is dictated by quite legitimate professional considerations and the desire to carry out better than they can at present the tasks entrusted to them. However the difficulty is that representations from the single channel area indicate that providing a choice of programme by means of a second RTE service would not be as acceptable to the majority of viewers in the single channel area as the rebroadcasting of a Northern Ireland programme.
I understand the fact that that is so is disappointing to RTE and I also appreciate they will try to persuade people that that is the way we ought to move. They are perfectly entitled to do that, but for the moment I as Minister have to accept what I believe to be the facts, that a second RTE service is not as acceptable to the majority in the single channel area as the rebroadcasting concept which I am exploring. It is, therefore, necessary to explore fully the possibility of providing a choice of programmes by rebroadcasting a Northern Ireland television channel.
The decision taken last autumn to provide a network of transmitters and microwavelengths for a second service will mean that time will be saved when all the information needed is available to enable the Government then to decide between rebroadcasting a Northern Ireland service and providing a second RTE service. I think those are the main points raised by Deputy Brugha. As I say, in relation to the more important points, and many of them were important, I shall be coming back to them later. I am now dealing with subject headings.
The first subject heading I wish to consider is the question of the postal services and the points made on these by various Deputies. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputy John Kelly, in the course of a very useful intervention here, suggested that our network of post offices should be used as a kind of makeshift banking system in the event of another long bank strike. I think he has in mind something like the Giro system which is at present operated by the British Post Office and by postal administrations in many other countries. This matter is primarily one for the Department of Finance, although it also affects my Department, who would be consulted in any development here. The Post Office have so far taken the view that until there is a strong demand for the Giro service and a clear indication that this would pay its way the matter cannot be given a very high priority in view of the many demands on the resources of the Department. I do not say this as excluding consideration of this idea.
This idea deserves and will receive continued consideration both in the Department of Finance, which is the Department primarily concerned, and my own Department. It would not be possible to introduce a Giro system quickly and for obvious reasons there could be no question of introducing it as a temporary arrangement during another bank strike. That will not be done; and I think Deputies on reflection will see for themselves why it cannot be done and why it should not be attempted.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach seems to have misunderstood something in my opening statement. Perhaps I did not formulate it sufficiently clearly. I did not say that the Universal Postal Union would be meeting here shortly. In fact, no such meeting has been arranged. He asked why it is proposed to replace the present series of definitive stamps. Consideration of the replacement of the present series is one of the tasks that has been given to the reconstituted Stamp Design Advisory Committee. Although there is no fixed international convention as to how often a definitive series should last periods of currency of less than ten years are common in other administrations. If a series is current for too long important elements of originality, freshness and relevance tend to be lost. For these reasons it is desirable that the Department also issue new definitive series from time to time. There are changes in our society and our culture —I shall be talking about these—and I think it is appropriate for these reasons that we should not adhere fixedly to one set of symbolic designs.
The Parliamentary Secretary obviously had considerable affection for the earliest stamps of this State. It was decided to replace them and if we are operating on a basis of replacing them we should continue to do this from time to time, not just change it once. Other people who spoke in this debate, among them Deputy Griffin from this side, showed that among many people there was a welcome for something new, a change in our definitive series from time to time. I believe that point of view will probably be more widespread.
The Parliamentary Secretary also referred to the change of the colour of official vans on the adoption of a new Post Office symbol. I think he is temperamentally conservative and he does not like people to change the colour and design of things. I understand that feeling but I think other people feel differently and they have a right also to be considered. The decision to alter the colour of vans was taken in the interest, more primarily, of road safety. The new colour, known as marigold yellow, was selected following consultations with the Kilkenny Design Workshops. Tests have proved that yellow shows up better under different lighting conditions than any other colour.
In conjunction with the change in colour it was also decided to adopt a new Post Office symbol in monogram form, which would be more in keeping with modern trends than the outmoded and rather clumsy "P and T" which was in use for so long. The Kilkenny Design workshops were also responsible for the design of the new symbol.
I should mention here that I have appointed the Chairman of the Kilkenny Design Workshops, Mr. W.H. Walsh, as head of the new Philatelic Committee but I hope to associate Kilkenny, through Mr. Walsh, even more closely than in the past with my Department in connection with questions of design.
The Parliamentary Secretary also suggested that the use of sealing wax in connection with the registration of post be done away with. There is in fact no requirement that sealing wax be used in making up packets for registration. Various other methods of sealing or fastening may be used provided it is not possible to remove any part of the contents of the letter or parcel without either breaking or tearing the case, wrapper or cover, forcing two adhesive surfaces apart or breaking the seals.
He also suggested that the Department should take steps to ensure that halldoor letter boxes are of adequate size. The staff of my Department inform me that they have no evidence that postmen are encountering special difficulty in effecting delivery of letters because of the size of letter boxes in use. While that is my Department's advice most Deputies will have experience in this area of going around pushing various types of data into letter boxes when canvassing. I certainly have experienced difficulty sometimes and I know that some letter boxes are far too small. I think we should have a look at the question of whether, in relation to new buildings, anything can be done to have a more satisfactory standard which would make life more easy for postmen and politicians.
Deputy McMahon suggested that, in order to avoid duplication of street names, the Department should make representations to local authorities in the matter. The Department do this as soon as they learn that a name assigned to a new road is similar to that in use elsewhere in the same town or city. Generally speaking, the proposed new name is introduced by the local authority despite the postal objections.
Deputy Dowling expressed the hope that I would introduce industrial democracy in the Department, thus enabling workers to participate in the decision-making process in the Department. There is already consultation with the staff over a wide area of the Department's activities and in so far as any proposed changes are likely to affect the interests of the staff—that applies to any change of any magnitude—the changes are very fully discussed with the staff representatives and are agreed with them where possible. Already, in a large concern such as ours, a considerable measure of industrial democracy in a practical sense already exists. The position in the Department is different from that in a semi-State body or a large commercial undertaking where there is a board of directors who take the major decisions affecting the undertaking. There is at present, at any rate, no board in my Department and the major decisions affecting the activities of the Department are taken at ministerial or Government level and industrial democracy in the sense in which Deputy Dowling has used the term does not seem to apply completely. But, as I have said, the reality of industrial democracy to a large extent applies.
Deputy Seán Moore suggested that a scheme of grants be introduced to brighten sub-offices. The Department already afford financial assistance to postmasters in connection with alterations to sub-office premises which improve the facilities for the discharge of Post Office business and the appearance of the office.
One matter in which the sub-postmasters' union approached me was in connection with having a standard sign designed to show where the particular post office is. I asked the Kilkenny Design Workshop for designs and I have, in fact, approved a design which will come into use and serve, I hope as well as the convenience of the public, to improve in a small way local post offices. Many of our sub-post offices are inevitably rather old and worn and I agree that as much as possible should be done to improve their appearance.
Deputy Moore suggested that unemployment pay orders should be cashable to post offices in Dublin. These orders are cashable in post offices in areas in which there are no employment exchanges and any change in the present arrangement would be a matter in the first instance for the Department of Social Welfare.
Deputy Geoghegan raised the question of delay in the delivery of letters posted in the Dáil to provincial areas.
Correspondence posted in the Dáil before 4 p.m. on Mondays to Fridays, inclusive, is included in night mail dispatches and should get delivered throughout the country on the next working day. On Saturday the mail is collected at 11 a.m. While there may be some instances of delay due to unusual or exceptional circumstances there is no good reason to believe that the standard of service in general is not being achieved.
Deputy Geoghegan and Deputy Gene Fitzgerald suggested that new motorised delivery services should be expedited. The policy of the Department is to use motor vehicles whenever and wherever the opportunity arises to use such vehicles economically. Their use involves the amalgamation of two or three posts so that one man can deliver mail over an area previously served by two or three postmen. In order to avoid the displacement of postmen such services are introduced only when vacancies occur and this naturally slows down the speed at which such deliveries can be introduced. Another factor is the fact that large numbers of postmen are too old for driving duties.
Deputy Tunney spoke about the queues in certain post offices in Dublin on children's allowance day, the first Tuesday of every month. He believed the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and the Department of Social Welfare should introduce a form of payment which would eliminate what he described as "this scandal". Unfortunately if large numbers of people desire to get payment around the same time on a particular day each month, some delay is inevitable. On the first Tuesday of every month sub-post masters in busy offices usually increase their staff. Neither the sub-postmasters nor the Department could be expected to provide staff on the scale expected to meet a big demand on one day in every month. Some form of standard payment would be required to reduce that big demand to an acceptable level, but that might inconvenience those who are in receipt of children's allowances and wish to cash them. It seems very difficult to solve this problem. If any Deputies have suggestions I shall be very glad to consider them.
Deputy Power asked who designs our stamps. The subjects for stamps are decided by the Government on the recommendation of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and the question of recommending designs for the subjects chosen is then entrusted to a special committee of outside experts. The committee advises on the designers to be commissioned. Most of these have been Irish.
Deputy Power also referred to the purchasing of Irish goods as far as possible. I quite agree with this policy and Deputies may be interested to know that in 1973 the Post Office Stores Branch placed contracts to the value of £18 million and the cost of articles assembled in the State accounted for £10 million of that amount.
Deputy Power also spoke about the need to ensure the encouragement of a policy of saving both in primary and post-primary schools as well as factories and other places of work. A great deal of work is being done in this field under the National Savings Committee established by the Minister for Finance. Savings schemes have been established in hundreds of schools and factories and a large volume of literature aimed at encouraging saving has been and is being distributed.
There were a number of complaints, quite naturally and properly, about services in local areas. Deputy Blaney complained that for some years past letters posted in the GPO after 6 p.m. do not secure delivery in Donegal the next morning. If the Department had not been compelled to introduce routing changes in December 1971, because of violence in Northern Ireland —that was the year of the aggressive campaign by the IRA—the standard of service to Donegal would have been maintained and items posted after 6 p.m. in Dublin would have secured delivery the next morning. The effect of the routing changes is that the time available in Dublin for the dispatch of night mail to Donegal has been reduced and correspondence not posted until the late afternoon occasionally fails to secure dispatch until the next day. The possibility of securing full clearance of such mails is being especially examined at the moment, but I do not see much chance of any major improvements in the situation while the violence which necessitates the re-routing continues. Violence, as well as having major tragic consequences also brings in its train minor inconveniences, of which this is one.
Deputy Collins suggested Tramore should have a departmentally staffed post office instead of a sub-post office. The sub-post office works well and is particularly suited to places like Tramore. Places of equal, or greater, importance are satisfactorily served by sub-post offices. The position in relation to Tramore was fully explained to a deputation of Waterford County Council, Tramore Town Commissioners and a number of local Deputies on 27th March last. Steps are being taken to fill the vacancy of postmaster in Tramore post office.
Deputy McMahon suggested an afternoon delivery should be introduced in Tallaght, particularly to the industrial estate there. There is a second delivery every day in Cookstown and Ayrton. As a general policy second deliveries are not extended to newly developing areas because the cost would be out of proportion and it is consequently not intended to extend the second delivery in Tallaght. People living in areas not served by a second delivery can call to the local post office and pick up their mail there without any cost.
Deputy Collins mentioned the proposed office block in Waterford city to house the staff of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and other Departments. The original project included accommodation for the Revenue Commissioners as well as the Post Office. Sketch plans were approved last year. The Office of Public Works subsequently decided that the site of the proposed development was insufficient to meet the expanding needs of both Departments and they intend to secure a new site to cater for the Revenue Commissioners' requirements. The existing site will be used for the post office. Sketch plans are at present under examination; they provide for a new telephone exchange and improved facilities for postal work. The Office of Public Works are unable to forecast when the building will be ready but every effort is being made to expedite matters.
Deputy McMahon expressed concern about the adequacy of the new post office premises in Tallaght. It has been recognised for some time that accommodation there for counter services is inadequate. After many fruitless attempts to secure alternative accommodation the Department finally succeeded in securing St. Dominick's Hall and the work of adapting and equipping it is expected to be completed in a matter of months and the counter services will be transferred there immediately afterwards. It is believed that the accommodation in these premises will be sufficient to cater for local needs for the next few years. As the area develops, the question of providing whatever additional offices are needed will be considered.
Deputy McMahon also raised the question of providing relief for overloaded posts in the Tallaght area. Delivery arrangements in the area were revised on 20th May when appropriate relief was provided for overloaded posts. The staff are satisfied with the new arrangements but the position will be kept under regular review and further adjustments made whenever necessary.
