asked the Minister for Local Government if, in the light of his reply to questions of 7th February, 1974, he considers that persons who purchased their houses under the pre-1973 scheme or post-1973 scheme are entitled to dispose of them in the same way as any house owner or whether, in view of the fact that some people have sold these houses at a profit, particularly under the 1973 scheme, they should forfeit part of that profit to the local authority or the State; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - House Sales.
14.
Dublin Corporation tenants who purchased their houses under pre-1973 schemes and paid the current market value of their dwellings are subject only to the conditions set out in their lease and are, therefore in the same position as any person who owns a leasehold interest in property.
In the case of tenants who are purchasing their dwellings over a period of years, a condition in the lease requires the consent of the housing authority to be obtained to the resale of the house. This condition applies to both the pre-1973 and post-1973 sales schemes.
Under the sales scheme which I introduced in July, 1973, which gave tenants of local authority houses an opportunity to purchase their dwellings on terms based on the actual all-in-cost of the house converted to current monetary values, I decided, having consulted with interested parties, including the National Association of Tenants' Organisations, that as the houses were being offered to the tenants at prices well below the current market value, speculative selling and buying of the houses should be discouraged. To this end, the Housing Authorities (Borrowing and Management) Regulations, 1974, stipulate that as a condition of the granting of consent to the resale of houses purchased by tenants, whether outright or over a period of years, under the 1973 scheme, a local authority should require payment to them of one-third of any profit made on the resale if such resale takes place within five years from the date of purchase. The regulations became law on 18th September, 1974.
Is the Minister aware that many of these people who sell their houses at a profit do so in order to purchase small dwelling type houses and that the houses so vacated are probably easing the demand for houses on the local authority?
I am not so aware. I am aware that in some isolated incidents people who sell their houses in those circumstances do repurchase houses. The number of people who are involved in this is so small that they do not represent a very big problem.
The Minister obviously has statistical information which I do not possess. The people who come to me and are anxious to purchase their houses would not purchase them unless they had a snob idea that to move out of a local authority housing area would be advantageous to themselves, their children and their employment opportunities. They purchase those houses at a price with a view to moving to a new locality.
The Deputy mentioned a "snob idea" but I am not interested in helping people who want, for snob reasons, to move out of want is regarded as a working-class area. I am interested in making it possible for the tenants of those houses to purchase them at a reasonable cost and, having done that, I agree with the suggestion made by organisations, including the tenants organisation, that it would be unreasonable to allow them within a period of five years to make a big profit. I agree it would be unreasonable to allow them to buy and sell and get out to what they would consider to be a better class area or to leave the area altogether. In my view the idea was a good one; it was not originally mine but I thought it was a good idea particularly when it was put to me by NATO and by the former Dublin Commissioners.
Give a thing and take it back.
Fianna Fáil introduced this in the 1969 scheme. They made it mandatory on every local authority tenant in the country to do this over the life of the house.
In view of the fact that the people who accepted the advice given at that time and bought their house prior to 1973 are finding that they are paying more for their house than their neighbour who defied the civil and local authorities by going on strike is there any way that the Minister can allow the pre-1973 people opt into the new scheme?
That is a separate question.
Deputy Lemass wants to have a foot on each side of the fence. He wants to be for the people and against them at the same time.
I should like to ask the Minister if the house purchasers referred to in the question were affected by the Minister's directive issued in November, 1974, regarding the carrying out of repairs? I should like to know if as a result of that circular there was a different standard of repair for those on the same purchase scheme whose repairs were carried out prior to and subsequent to that circular?
The circular referred to is a repeat of a circular issued by a Fianna Fáil Minister for Local Government. This became law as a result of Fianna Fáil putting it through this House, that only structural repairs should be carried out. The Deputy should read up on this matter before asking questions.
The Minister should stand on his own two feet.
Would the Minister agree that it was a most untimely directive to issue in the middle of the purchase scheme? I could accept such a circular being issued at the beginning of a new scheme but the Minister must realise that the issuing of that circular has victimised people whose repairs were not carried out prior to November.
It was not a directive; it was a copy of a circular issued by my predecessor on the same subject. It had been issued periodically and will be issued again. It was as a result of legislation passed by this House, backed by Fianna Fáil, to ensure that only structural repairs would be carried out.
Is the Minister in favour?
I operated it but there is nothing I can do about it.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply I should like to give notice that I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Deputy Dowling will know a lot about housing.