asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he expects to approve any further increases in the price of butter or sugar before the end of 1975; and if there are any applications before him at present.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Commodity Prices.
14.
The recent EEC agreement on the prices of agricultural products will result in an increase of approximately 3½ per lb. in the price of butter with effect from mid-September, 1975. I have also under consideration proposals from the manufacturers for small increases for butter sold in different types of special wrapper. I have no proposal before me for an increase in the price of sugar.
I am not aware of any further likely increases in the prices of butter or sugar before the end of 1975.
Are these the wrappers worth a couple of "quid" apiece?
May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to confirm that this means that butter, which is now 47½ pence per lb, will be costing 3½ pence more in September, which will be 51 pence per lb, irrespective of whatever other increases the Government may put on? Is that correct?
Yes.
In relation to the price of sugar, is it not a fact that the recent increase of 42 per cent in the price of sugar was attributed to the higher price which will have to be paid for beet this year? But the beet is not yet sown, or only just sown, in many cases; it will not be harvested until October and it will not be processed until round about December. On that basis, plus the fact that the world prices of sugar have fallen considerably in the last two months, how does the Parliamentary Secretary account for the fact that he or his Minister have now increased the price of sugar by 42 per cent?
First of all, the increase in the price of sugar was based on a recommendation to the National Prices Commission.
Pontius Pilate.
The National Prices Commission went into the matter in considerable detail——
Now they want a Barabbas.
What the NPC did does not sweeten the pill.
I do not know if the Deputy objects to improvements in the position of producers of sugar beet.
I put down this question and I want to ask the Parliamentary Secretary is he making any representations to the Government to do something about the price of butter? We must have the highest priced butter in Europe. It certainly will be that by September. Consumers cannot bear an increase like that. Will the Parliamentary Secretary take any action?
The increases which took place were on the basis of EEC decisions which were basically intended to ensure an improvement in the price of milk to producers who, as the Deputy is no doubt aware, have suffered increased costs.
That is no compensation to consumers.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary admit that the EEC in the case of this country, as in the case of Britain, are prepared to give so many millions in subsidy in order to reduce the price of butter but the Government are not able to match that £ for £, or£2, as is being done in Britain and Northern Ireland, and our people are therefore being deprived of the benefits of entry into the EEC and will be asked next September to pay over 50 pence per lb for butter? That will give rise to increased demands for more wages, social welfare benefits, and so on.
This is turning into a debate.
Surely a subsidy paid in part by us and in part by the EEC would be a good thing.
The Deputy appreciates consumer subsidy involves very considerable expense and the matter has to be considered very carefully.
In other words, the Government cannot match the EEC subsidy.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the EEC pays a direct subsidy to British consumers of sugar on 1,400,000 lbs of sugar in order to bring down the price? Is he aware that no such similar advantage obtains on this side of the Border and can he say why that is so?
That is a wider matter involving agricultural policy and it is one to which I could not attempt to give an answer.
Is this another of the bonanzas Ministers are bringing home from Europe?
I am calling Question No. 15. Will Deputies please allow questions to continue?
15.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will make arrangements whereby the National Prices Commission will furnish information concerning the make up of prices; and if he will ask them to ascertain the facts with regard to the prices of, for example, one white fish, frozen fish fingers, eggs, baked beans, rice, sausages, meat including beef, veal, mutton, lamb and pig meat and animal feeding stuffs.
The National Prices Commission have in fact already done a considerable amount of work in this area.
With regard to the particular commodities mentioned in the Deputy's question, information is already publicly available as follows:
Frozen foods, including fish fingers —certain aspects of these prices were included in the January, 1974, National Prices Commission report.
Egg Prices are dealt with in the July, 1974, National Prices Commission report. An occasional paper on the egg industry was published in September, 1974.
Sausage Prices are dealt with in the January, 1974, National Prices Commission report.
Meat Prices are dealt with in the August/September, 1974, and October, 1974, National Prices Commission reports. The Meat Prices Advisory Body Report of Inquiry into the domestic meat trade was published in January, 1975.
Pig meat products are dealt with in the May, 1974, and August/September, 1974, National Prices Commission reports.
Animal feeding stuffs are dealt with in the June, 1974, National Prices Commission report. An occasional paper on the animal feedstuffs industry was published in December, 1973.
With regard to white fish, a lengthy study has recently been made by consultants on fish distribution and marketing in Ireland and it is expected that a summary will be published in a forthcoming National Prices Commission monthly report.
We have had those reports but would the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the general public still do not know exactly what they are getting in the package? Will he also agree that we have the peculiar situation that if somebody sells an inferior quality sausage, for instance, the retailer and not the manufacturer is prosecuted?
The latter part of the question is a matter for consumer protection legislation. In relation to the former matter I can tell the Deputy that the National Prices Commission have examined the question of a consumer prices guide which would give the price range of a commodity or service and thus serve as a guideline for housewives. A prices guide was suggested by the Consumer Association of Ireland but the commission in their report for June, 1974 did not recommend it. They said:
While fully understanding the objective of the Association's proposal, we see considerable practical difficulties in implementing it.
First. It would be very difficult to avoid a significant time lag between the collection of price data and their publication. From our experience, it would be very difficult to reduce the lag between the collection of prices and their wide publication below two to three weeks.
Second. The proposed consumers' prices guide would need frequent revision. This could not be avoided given the importance of import prices in determining the prices of goods sold in Ireland, and the fact that increases under the national pay agreement apply at different dates in different firms and industries and are well above, in almost all cases, any increases in productivity and efficiency that could be obtained over the period to which the agreement relates.
Third. There would be difficulties in determining the price range of a commodity or service that would serve as a guideline. There are considerable variations in the prices of individual commodities between categories of retail outlet and between outlets within the same category even before account is taken of special offers. The mere publication of a price range could be interpreted to mean approval or acceptance of all the prices within the range and create a tendency for prices at the lower end of the range to be raised towards the level of those at the upper end.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary not think it would be better to revert to the publishing of price increases in the newspapers rather than be confronted with them every day?
The Prices Commission reports and the Government decisions in relation to price increases consequent on them are made widely known and the public are quite well aware of what is taking place.
They are aware of the price increases but not how and when they take place.
The Minister referred to the Prices Commission report in 1974 with reference to pigmeat but when the housewife goes in to buy sausages she does not know if she is buying flavoured bread or she is actually getting pigmeat. It is not necessarily the most expensive sausage that has got the biggest content of meat. Can anything be done about that?
I suggest the Deputy should read the section of the January, 1974 report dealing with sausage prices.
16.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether fish fingers are a more expensive form of protein than beef; and, if so, if he will have the matter examined.
The answer to this question depends on the relative prices of fish fingers and beef. There have been considerable fluctuations in beef prices in recent years and, furthermore, the price of beef at any given time can vary considerably depending on such factors as the particular cut, the quality, and the margin taken by the retailer. Similarly, fish prices are also liable to vary from time to time. The Deputy will appreciate, therefore, that it would not be feasible to make any general pronouncement on whether fish fingers are a more expensive form of protein than beef nor do I consider that it would be useful to have the matter examined.