asked the Minister for Defence the number of show jumpers at present in the Army Equitation School.
36.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Equitation School.
35.
asked the Minister for Defence the number of horses that have been maintained by the Army Equitation School during the last 12 months; and the names of the owners.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 35 and 36 together.
The number of showjumpers at present in the Army Equitation School is eighteen. The number of horses maintained in the school during the past 12 months varied from time to time but a reasonable approximation of the average figure would be 75 made up as follows:— Property of the Department of Defence, 64; on loan from Bord na gCapall, 1—Lough Sheelin, which won the Strokestown Car; on loan from a private individual, 2—Sir John Galvin; property of Bord na gCapall (maintained on a repayment basis), 8.
Two horses were also maintained for short periods while undergoing trials in the context of their being offered for sale to the Department. As neither horse was bought by the Department, I consider that it would be inexpedient to give the names of the owners.
The Minister did not have any of his horses there?
No.
Is the Minister satisfied that the Army are buying the best horses coming on the open market? Is he aware that some of our best showjumpers have in the last six months been exported? Is money being made available to purchase top-class showjumpers for our international team?
These seem to be separate questions.
I am indebted to Deputy Coughlan who said in his contribution on the Estimate that we were selling the cream and keeping the skim. My answer to that is quite simple. What we should do is sell some of the cream and get good money for it for Irish farmers. We should keep some of the cream and we should let the skim look after itself.
Is it the position that we are selling all the cream?
No. The operative words are "some of". The position is that there are, say, ten millionaires in Britain and there is a man in Europe who has 60 showjumpers and I have found, as a rough figure, that the cost of maintaining a horse in McKee Barracks is £4,000 per year. One can advertise a bottle of stout by a label but one cannot advertise the Irish horse. There must be somebody around the place who produces a good stable. That is being done by the Army and that is it. We do that but, of course, we do it not on the basis of keeping all the cream. We do it on the basis of keeping some of the cream and selling some because we want money as well and I hope the Opposition do not mind that.
The Minister says that the Army keep horses. That is true but the record of the Army so far as showjumping is concerned in the last three years is not——
I am not responsible for Fianna Fáil for the last 16 years.
I am asking what has happened in the last two years.
We got the right horses and put the right men there.
I want to know what has happened in the last two years.
This is not relevant. Question No. 37.
I have not asked any supplementary yet.
Why did the Deputy not offer?
I did offer but I gave way when a Member was in possession.
If the Deputy had offered, he would have been called.
I did offer and I gave way to the Member in possession. The Minister said that it is the policy to keep some of the cream and some of the skim. Is that so?
No. The Deputy is quite incorrect. What I said is that the policy is to keep some of the cream and to get all the money we can for the Irish farmer for the rest of the cream and to have the Irish jumping team the way it was before the people opposite made a hash of it.
Does the Minister mean that we are not purchasing the best horses available?
The Minister does not mean that. The Minister is quite clear in his mind that the amount of money provided in the Estimates over the last two years was sufficient and the best horses were bought. There is £60,000 in the Estimate this year and I think that is quite sufficient. We are only topping up now. We had to make the capital expenditure when Fianna Fáil were degrading the Irish jumping team and were, in fact, getting rid of it and were at the point of wiping it out completely.
Question No. 37 please.
Buy Tulyar.