asked the Minister for Finance if he will give particulars of the National Debt as at 1st April for each year since 1970.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - National Debt.
25.
The amount of the National Debt is compiled as at the end of each financial year. With the changeover of financial year to a calendar year basis from 1st January, 1975, the latest date for which the National Debt figure is available is 31st December, 1974. In previous years, the amount of the National Debt was compiled as at 31st March in each year.
At 31st March in the years 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1974 the National Debt amounted to respectively £1,009 million, £1,106 million, £1,251 million, £1,421 million, £1,622 million. At 31st December, 1974, the National Debt amounted to £1,958 million.
(Dublin Central): The Minister's figures are up to December, 1974. Could he give any indication of what the figure will be like in December, 1975?
It would not be possible to do so.
That is a separate question.
(Dublin Central): Could he give any later indication than 1974?
No. As the reply is in the form——
Surely we are entitled to at least two supplementary questions.
The Deputy may not obstruct the Chair when Questions are proceeding. It is not usual for the Chair to interrupt when a Minister is in the process of replying.
He was replying to the next question.
Yes, indeed.
You did not call it.
Question No. 26.
26.
asked the Minister for Finance the total moneys borrowed abroad by the Government since March, 1973; and the amount, rate of interest and source of each loan.
As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Chomhairle, to have it circulated with the Official Report.
Government External Borrowing since 31st March, 1973, to date:—
|
Loan and Interest Rate |
Source |
Amount |
||
|
Original Currency |
Irish Pound Proceeds |
|||
|
(million) |
(£ million) |
|||
|
Ireland 6½% Notes, 1973-81 |
Switzerland |
SW Fr |
150.0 |
20.0 |
|
9% Algemene Bank Nederland Loan |
Netherlands |
Dfl |
100.0 |
15.5 |
|
EIB 8½% Loan (First Telephone Project) |
— |
US $ |
8.6 |
|
|
Lux Fr |
72.0 |
|||
|
£ |
3.0 |
7.5 |
||
|
Ireland 9½% Belgian Franc Loan, 1974-84 |
Belgium |
B Fr |
1,000.0 |
10.2 |
|
Ireland 9¾% EUA Bonds, 1974-84 |
Eurobond Market |
EUA |
20.0 |
10.0 |
|
US Dollar Revolving Credit Facilities (variable rates of interest) |
Eurodollar Market |
US $ |
260.0 |
111.2 |
|
EIB 10½% Loan (Second Telephone Project) |
— |
US $ |
13.3 |
|
|
£ |
3.8 |
9.5 |
||
|
9% Kuwaiti Dinar Notes, 1979 |
Kuwait |
K Dinars |
5.0 |
7.2 |
|
9% UAE Dirham Bonds, 1984 |
United Arab Emirates |
UAE Dirhams |
150.0 |
16.2 |
|
10¼% Dutch Guilder Notes |
Netherlands |
Dfl |
50.0 |
8.3 |
|
Ireland 9¼% EUA Bonds, 1975-82 |
Eurobond Market |
EUA |
25.0 |
14.7 |
|
9¼% Deutsche Mark Private Placement |
Federal Republic of Germany |
DM |
60.0 |
10.6 |
|
US Dollar Syndicated Credit Facility (variable rates of interest) |
Eurodollar Market |
US $ |
50.0 |
24.5 |
|
EIB 9½% Loan (Third Telephone Project) |
£ |
1.8 |
||
|
SW Fr |
552.5 |
|||
|
US $ |
13.0 |
17.5 |
||
|
Other smaller loans |
Various |
Various |
19.2 |
|
|
Total Borrowed abroad since 31st March, 1973 |
302.1 |
27.
asked the Minister for Finance the total national debt; the cost in 1974 and in 1975 of servicing the debt; and the cost per head of population.
The amount of the National Debt is compiled as at the end of each financial period. The latest date for which such a figure is available therefore is 31st December, 1974. At that date the National Debt amounted to £1,958 million.
The cost of servicing the National Debt in 1974 was £180 million which represented a figure of £58 per head of population.
It is estimated that the cost of servicing the National Debt in the current financial year will amount to some £234 million representing £76 per head of population.
Are we to take it from the information given in that reply, together with the information furnished in reply to Question No. 25, that basically the National Debt increased by over £5 million since the National Coalition Government took over?
I can tell the Deputy that if we were to succumb to all the pressures we get from the Opposition for additional expenditure here and less taxation the National Debt would be even greater.
Question No. 28.
Has the Minister the audacity to seriously suggest that, following his mismanagement of affairs over the last two-and-a-half years, it is the Opposition who are responsible for it?
I am suggesting that if we succumbed to the Opposition the present difficulties which are of a global nature would be very much worse in Ireland.
Might I ask the Minister whether he is accepting responsibility for the increase in the National Debt since he assumed office as Minister for Finance or is he suggesting that all or portion of that responsibility devolves upon the Opposition?
The Government naturally accept responsibility for their financial management but they point out that the debt would be very much greater if all the pressures for additional expenditure, including the innumerable ones mentioned here today, were to be acceded to.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Davern.
Did I hear the Minister saying that the figure for the service of the national debt in 1974 was over £100 million?
£234 million.
It is £180 million.
And the cost for 1975?
£234 million.
To what is the increase due?
The increase in the debt.
28.
asked the Minister for Finance the sources from which the sum of £198,235,662 indicated as other borrowings paid into the Exchequer from 1st January to 15th August 1975, was borrowed; and why this sum is so much greater than the £11,513,369 under the same heading for the same period in 1974.
I would refer the Deputy to my replies to similar questions on 1st July, 1975 and 28th May, 1975. Apart from the fact that the information requested relates to a later date, the earlier explanation given is still valid. I might add that the repayment figure of £219 million on the issues side of the Exchequer statement should be set off against the borrowing figure of £198 million, a nett difference of £21 million.
29.
asked the Minister for Finance the extent to which the State has lost money because of the fact that borrowed money has now appreciated in value against the pound sterling.
Exchange losses incurred on external loans redeemed to date amount to £7½ million. As it is not possible to forecast what exchange rates may be when other loans become due for redemption, no reliable estimate can be given as to whether gains or losses or either may be incurred at times of redemption.
What period is covered by the £7,500,000?
I am sorry, I do not have here the dates upon which the loans were first obtained.
May we take it that that is what is involved, from the first loan obtained by the State, which involved a loss of money by reason of a change in currency exchange rates? Is that what the Minister is covering in the reply, from the beginning up to date?
It is the total loss to date——
£7½ million.
On any foreign loans that have been redeemed. But I have not got the dates upon which the loans——
Did the Minister say: "that have been redeemed"?
Yes.
I do not think that is what the question asked. Surely it asks the extent to which there has been a loss in respect of money borrowed whether redeemed or not?
The Deputy will appreciate that one cannot say with certainty what may be the fluctuations in the market. It is not, therefore, possible at this stage to say what losses may be created as a consequence of exchange movements. The mere fact that there could be losses today—if the loan was repaid today—is no certainty that a loss of a similar kind or that any loss would occur on the date that a loan would be repaid.
No doubt the Minister is familiar with the losses sustained by the Agricultural Credit Corporation by reason of exchange rate fluctuations. In fact, he referred to it recently in a statement to that body. Could he give a figure arrived at on a comparable basis in respect of State borrowing?
I do not have it before me.
That is what the question seems to ask.
Question No. 30.
(Dublin Central): Could the Minister give any indication whether loans are to be redeemed very shortly or are any loans to be redeemed during 1976?
I have not that information in my brief.
Question No. 30.
Could the Minister give the same advice to the Government in the matter as he gave to the ACC?
People should always listen to my advice.
(Interruptions.)