asked the Minister for Defence why a person (name supplied) did not receive a gratuity, having completed his service with the Permanent Defence Force on 5th January, 1975.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Gratuity.
2.
The person named had not the requisite service to qualify for a gratuity. He enlisted again on 13th November, 1975 for a term of three years and all his service will be reckonable for the purposes of the Defence Forces (Pensions) Schemes, subject to the provisions thereof.
Some time ago I asked the Minister if it was the intention of the Department to review the question of legal justice within the Defence Forces. I want to point out that on 16th April, 1975 I received a letter from the Minister's Department which indicated that this man had served a total of three years and a day, which is a day more than the qualifying service. His discharge indicates that he had served a three year period and his discharge recommendation was that he was a member of the presidential escort of honour, carried out his duties in a most satisfactory and honourable manner and was a most honest, sober and trustworthy young man and could be recommended to any employer. Nevertheless, this young man, because of the fact that military justice has not been updated was a victim of circumstances and of double punishment.
This is not in order. The Deputy may ask a supplementary question but he may not embark upon a speech or quote as he has been doing from a document. It is not in order at Question Time.
To the individual the question of double punishment is an important matter. Democracy is based on justice and there is no justice in this.
Deputy Dowling is continuing to make a speech.
I might point out that officer who sentenced the young man to 15 days detention stated afterwards that he was unaware that this would interfere with the man's gratuity. Would the Minister have a look at the situation because the Defence Forces Act, 1954 indicates that the total amount a man may be fined by his commanding officer is £2 or detention.
The Deputy is showing total disregard for the ruling of the Chair.
This is an important matter.
I am prepared to give the Deputy some latitude but he is abusing the privileges attached to Question Time.
The failure of the Minister to indicate an updating of military justice means that the stipulated fine of £2, having regard to the change in the value of money that has taken place since 1954——
If the Deputy wishes to debate this matter, he must find another opportunity. He may not do so now.
I am not debating it.
The Deputy is debating it. It is not in order.
Is the Minister aware that because of the fall in the value of money officers are opting for detention rather than a fine because of the provision in the 1954 Act of a maximum fine of only £2? This is an injustice.
Deputy Dowling, please.
Will the Minister have the matter examined so as to ensure that double punishment will not be inflicted on young men who are released from the service after three years?
The trooper in question was awarded 15 days' detention on 28th March, 1973, by his commanding officer, from whom he elected to accept punishment, and he had an option of going to court-martial, for appearing on training parade unshaven and using insubordinate language to his superior officer. When he left the Army he would have lost the gratuity to the amount of between £54 and £55. At that point in time that was his loss. We are not running a kindergarten. We are running a men's army. To use insubordinate language before his fellows to his superior officer because he mentioned the matter of appearing on parade unshaven was a serious offence. Defence Force Regulations lay down that any period of detention does not count as far as qualifying service is concerned. The man's present position, having rejoined and been taken in on the basis of the good discharge mentioned by Deputy Dowling, is that when he has served his six years the total loss to him will I would estimate be around £15. I think he got off very lightly.
Is the Minister aware that on this particular morning the man was sick, had attended sick parade? The Minister said 15 days' detention. He got 13 days' detention according to the letter from the Department. There seems to be some confusion here. How was the amount of remission calculated?
It was 15 days' detention less two days' remission, which equals 13 days.