asked the Minister for Finance the reason for the inadequacy of the information supplied by the Irish Government to the EEC Commission in relation to projects qualifying for aid from the European regional development fund as contained in Document PE 44.878.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - European Regional Development Fund.
7.
European Parliament Document PE 44.878 is concerned with establishing a uniform procedure for the exchange of information on the quality of surface fresh water in the Community and it would not appear that the Deputy's question has any relevance to it.
I utterly reject the innuendo in the Deputy's question that information supplied to the EEC Commission by the Government in relation to the regional development fund has been inadequate. I would like to assure the Deputy that the Government have always supplied the EEC Commission with all the information required under the Fund Regulation in connection with our applications for assistance from the European regional development fund. I am glad of the opportunity to put on the record of the Dáil the reply which the Deputy received recently from the Commission to a written question tabled by him in the European Parliament which confirms the correctness of the procedures adopted by the Government and by the Commission. This reply states, inter alia, that:—
Article 7 (2) of this [the Regional Fund] Regulation provides that investments costing less than 10 million units of account are submitted to the Commission in grouped applications, showing only the total amount of investment and the total of national aids granted. Moreover, in the case of such grouped applications, Article 7 (4) of the Fund Regulation stipulates that aid from the Fund is determined by the Commission `in the aggregate'. Accordingly, the Commission's decisions on grouped applications show neither the amount of Fund aid attributable to each individual project nor the individual amounts of investment involved.
As the Deputy is aware, Ireland is unique in that it is the only member state whose entire national territory is treated as a single qualifying region for the purposes of fund assistance. Hence Commission assistance for grouped applications is approved as a single figure for the country as a unit.
There was a printing error here and the question should have read document PE 44.898. I hope the Minister accepts this was not my mistake. That document relates to information given to the European Parliament of projects submitted by the nine member states for aid from the regional development fund. In relation to this information, is the Minister aware that the only information given by the Irish Government to the European Commission relates to the number of projects that have qualified? There is no reference to the amount of money allocated to each project from the European regional development fund. Is the Minister further aware that all the other member states without exception have given this very basic and vital information?
I have studied the document to which the Deputy now refers and I would point out that the information in respect of Ireland is similar to that given by all other countries except in regard to the specification of individual sums per region and that is for the reason which the Commission itself explained to the Deputy in response to his own question in the European Parliament. In relation to investments costing less than 10 million units of account the application must be made by grouping together the individual items, and sanction is given by the Commission in the aggregate. In those circumstances it is not open to either the Commission or the Irish Government to break up the items in the way which the Deputy requests. Ireland's position is unique as being the only country in the community where the complete national territory is treated as one unit.
In other countries there are some areas of the national territory which are excluded from regional fund assistance and it is therefore necessary to identify for the purpose of the EEC regulations the particular areas in respect of which applications are made and sanctions are given. This is not so in relation to Ireland. There is no reluctance on our part to give information. We have given all the information required by the European Commission, and as I pointed out on more than one occasion, it is clear proof that we have met all requirements, that we were the first to receive any money from the regional fund.
Despite the appearance of collusion between the Minister and certain officials of the European Commission, is the Minister aware that great dissatisfaction has been expressed by members of the European Parliament at the inadequacy of this information? Is the Minister further aware that his own TD, Deputy McDonald, was amongst those people expressing their dissatisfaction?
I am aware that some people have been unable to or are unwilling to understand the provisions of the regulations which govern the operation of the European regional fund. The Article from which I quoted which was explained to Deputy Herbert at the European Parliament, speaks for itself. This is not a question of interpretation by officials either in Ireland or in Brussels, or a question of collusion between Ireland and the Commission, as far as the officials are concerned. The regulations have been drafted and have to be applied in their present form. I am not saying that the regulations as drafted met every requirement of the Irish Government. They did not. We would hope when a revision of regulations comes about that some of our representations will be met. In the meantime we have to operate the existing system, and as far as Ireland is concerned it is very important that we ensure that nothing is done which could exclude any part of our national territory from assistance under the regional fund because it is in our interests to ensure that all the national territory will be included. If we exclude any part of it Ireland will get less under the regional fund, and that would not be helpful.
Order, order, I must ask for brevity.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Herbert, order. Does the Deputy not hear the Chair?
No, I cannot.
I am asking for brevity from both sides of the House. We are making very little progress at Question Time today. I will allow the Deputy a final brief question.
Is the Minister trying to conceal the fact that like last year's allocation the regional fund or allocation this year has been subsumed into the Exchequer and that in actual fact no extra money has been given by the Minister for regional development in this country?
Deputy Herbert knows that that is a falsehood. He knows that the figures have already been published in Ireland and were published as far back as last January.
I know it is not correct.
They were published as far as back as last January showing that an additional £12 million is being expended this year in Ireland by virtue of the regional fund. If Deputy Herbert does not accept that, the rest of Europe does. It is about time that Deputy Herbert realised that he and his ilk in Fianna Fáil are the only people who are not keeping in step with Europe.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 8. Deputy Herbert will have to obey the Chair.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy should look at the documents that were laid before the House in January, 1976. It is time the Rip Van Winkles woke up and did their home work instead of asking the European Parliament and this Parliament to waste time answering their questions.
Would the Minister give this House vital figures——
Order. Deputy Herbert, I am passing on to the next question. The Deputy will obey the Chair.
8.
asked the Minister for Finance the total grant allocations made to Ireland and the total contributions made by Ireland in respect of funds of the European Community in each year since accession.
The information sought by the Deputy is substantially as already published in the six-monthly reports to the Oireachtas on Developments in the European Communities (Annex II). However, the published figures are subject to some minor amendments so as to update them in the light of the most recent information available. The updated figures are in the form of a tabular statement which I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to have circulated with the Official Report.
As the Deputy will see, the table contains figures for the amounts approved by way of grants and loans and the amounts of Ireland's contributions in respect of the years 1973, 1974 and 1975. Figures for the period 1st January, 1976, to 31st May, 1976, are currently being compiled and will be contained in Annex II to the Seventh Report to the Oireachtas on Developments in the European Communities which is to be published shortly.
I should like to point out that, due to Community procedures, decisions on applications submitted in a particular year, or the final adjustments to amounts approved, are often delayed until later years. As a result, the figures quoted for 1975 do not necessarily represent the final amount of Community grants and subsidies approved in respect of that year.
SUBSIDIES, Grants and Loans from European Community funds approved for Ireland and Ireland's contributions to the European Communities in respect of 1973, 1974 and 1975.
|
1973 |
1974 |
1975 |
|
|
(a) Grants and subsidies approved: |
£m |
£m |
£m |
|
FEOGA—Guarantee Section |
36.6 |
63.8 |
98.4 |
|
—Guidance Section |
2.8 |
5.1 |
4.7 |
|
European Social Fund |
4.1 |
7.0 |
9.4 |
|
European Regional Development Fund |
— |
— |
8.3 |
|
Regional studies jointly financed by Ireland and the Communities |
0.01 |
0.05 |
0.01 |
|
Pilot projects and studies to combat poverty |
— |
— |
0.1 |
|
Research and Investment projects |
0.01 |
0.1 |
0.1 |
|
Projects in the hydrocarbons sector |
— |
0.2 |
— |
|
Moneys for miscellaneous surveys and studies carried out by Irish agencies for the Commission |
0.03 |
0.08 |
0.3 |
|
Total grants and subsidies approved |
43.74 |
76.33 |
121.31 |
|
(b) Loans approved: |
|||
|
EIB |
11.1 |
24.8 |
22.0 |
|
ECSC |
0.2 |
— |
1.2 |
|
Total loans approved |
11.3 |
24.8 |
23.2 |
|
(c) Contributions to the European Communities: |
|||
|
Contribution to the budget of the European Communities |
5.3 |
6.7 |
9.8 |
|
Contribution to the EIB |
0.8 |
0.8 |
0.4 |
|
Contribution to the ECSC |
0.01 |
0.01 |
0.01 |
|
Contribution to EURATOM research programmes |
— |
0.01 |
0.03 |
|
Miscellaneous contributions |
— |
0.3 |
0.5 |
|
Total contributions |
6.11 |
7.82 |
10.74 |
NOTES:
1. Apart from amendments owing to (a) rounding and (b) more up-to-date information the figures in the above table correspond to the figures shown in Annex II of the six-monthly Reports to the Oireachtas on Developments in the European Communities.
2. In addition to the headings shown in the table receipts also arise as a result of the Community regulations on social security for migrant workers. Ireland's receipts under this heading were £1.5 million in 1973, £1.3 million in 1974 and £2.0 million in 1975.
I only have available to me those figures in the various reports which the Minister has indicated which are not quite up to date, but the Minister will take it in any event that the net benefit to Ireland accruing by virtue of our accession, and our Treaty of Accession negotiated by the Fianna Fáil Government, is very considerable from the basis of the information available to me. In terms of grants alone in 1973, the net benefit would have been £36 million.
Order. Deputy O'Kennedy knows that it is not in order to quote at Question Time. Indeed questions are for the purposes of eliciting information and not imparting it.
It has been reported to me that the figures do not coincide. In 1974, £63 million and in 1975, £108 million.
Order.
Does the Minister accept from that that in fact we have gained to a very considerable extent, simply by virtue of the terms negotiated in our Treaty of accession? If the Minister has to accept that, will he not further accept that the excuses which the Minister and his Government have been making for so long about external factors influencing our economy to its disadvantage are the very opposite of the truth?
Membership of the EEC will not save Ireland or any other country from all the consequences of the global economic turmoil of the last two years. It would be facile to argue that it could, because the whole community has suffered as a result of the global upheaval, and indeed many other countries of the EEC have suffered even more severely as far as economic growth is concerned than we in Ireland, which is of great significance. Unemployment growth has been greater in most EEC countries than it has been here, but EEC membership alone cannot protect this country against the consequences of the global recession and the enormous price rises, particularly in energy, over the last two years. Nobody on the Government side has ever argued that the EEC could protect this country against the ravages of the worst world recession for the last 40 years.
I would like to bring to the attention of the Ceann Comhairle the fact that the Minister has not replied to any of the questions I submitted and indeed has not obeyed the rules in relation to brevity and relevance which were laid down by the Ceann Comhairle. I again ask the Minister if the figures themselves do not clearly underline that we have by virtue of our Treaty of Accession, negotiated by the Fianna Fáil Government, been significant beneficiaries, and in the one area where this Government should have bent themselves with some enthusiasm—the area of regional policy—they have miserably failed? In view of that would the Minister finally acknowledge that far from excusing ourselves by reference to the Minister's failure——
This is becoming a speech, Deputy.
It is important.
Order. We cannot debate matters at Question Time.
For the health of the Government and the nation it is time it was acknowledged that this Government without Community benefit would be——
Please, Deputy O'Kennedy, this is not in order. If the Deputy wants to debate the EEC he must do so at some other time. He may not do so now.
May I ask one other question? Would the Minister accept that if this Administration still had to subsidise our agricultural exports to Britain particularly, in the same way as the previous Administration, instead of the considerable benefits they are now enjoying they would actually have to find something in the order of £100 million?
The Deputy has made a long speech. I want to move on to other questions.
Does the Minister not accept that the Government are not using their advantages?
Having made up for the lack of enthusiasm on the part of the Fianna Fáil Party in their efforts to persuade the people of Ireland to join the European Community I shall not argue against anything the Deputy has said in favour of membership of the EEC. Of course this country has been a net beneficiary of membership quite substantially and our current problems would be a great deal worse were we not a member of the Community. We have never argued otherwise but all the benefits of EEC membership for this or any other country are not sufficient to protect us from the consequences of the international economic turmoil of the last few years. If the Deputy will not believe that from me, may I suggest that he consult the economic adviser to the Fianna Fáil Party? I do not want to name him here but he is well known and I understand that the Deputy is still on speaking terms with him.
We are only concerned with membership.
(Interruptions.)
Order. Question No. 9.