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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 18 May 1978

Vol. 306 No. 9

Vote 42: Labour

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £27,355,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1978, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Labour, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain grants-in-aid.

In introducing the Estimates for the Department of Labour for the first time, I wish to outline my principal aims as Minister. They are twofold: first, to make the greatest contribution possible to improving the employment situation and, secondly, to update the procedures and institutions so as to help our industrial relations to operate more satisfactorily.

The amount sought for 1978 in the main Estimate and the Supplementary Estimate is about £15 million or 85 per cent greater than the provision allocated for the previous year. The principal increases are under the heading of the employment incentive scheme, where an increase is made of over £5 million on last year's provision of approximately £1.81 million, and £5 million for the new employment maintenance scheme. Another major increase is for An Chomhairle Oiliúna —AnCO—where an additional £3.78 million or 31 per cent is being provided for industrial training. In this review I propose to give the House details of the services covered by the Estimate. I will start by dealing with the services, which relate directly to, or support, employment creation and maintenance and filling of jobs. The total of the main Estimate and Supplementary Estimate is £33,150,000. First, however, I should say a few words on the general employment situation.

Measures taken and planned by the Government on the employment front were set out in the recent White Paper on National Development and in the Minister for Finance's budget speech. The Government are aiming at the creation of 25,000 additional jobs per year made up of 29,000 non-agricultural jobs counteracted to some extent by a drop of 4,000 in agriculture. When looked at in terms of past job creation achievements this target is indeed formidable. Government plans for stimulating employment further will be dealt with in the planning Green Paper to be issued in the near future.

The unemployment position as reflected in live register figures has been improving. The most recent figure available, 105,894 is for the week ended 5 May 1978. This is a reduction of 7,603 on the corresponding figure for 1977. The figure has decreased by more than 5,000 in the last five weeks. The current year-to-year gap is the largest since late 1972.

A sum of £7 million is provided for the employment incentive scheme for the payment of premiums of £20 or £14 to employers for up to 24 weeks in respect of each extra eligible worker employed. The amount of premium depends on the age and category of the worker.

The scheme originally applied only to manufacturing industry and agriculture and was to run from February 1977 to February 1978. The Government decided to extend the scheme from September 1977 to include the hotel and catering industry, the services sector generally, and the construction industry—the latter on a trial basis—and also to increase the premium payable in respect of school leavers from £10 to £14. In addition it was decided to continue the scheme to the end of 1978.

Up to 5 May 1978 premiums totalling £1.8 million have been paid in respect of 5,391 employees, that is, 3,706 adults and 1,613 school leavers. The comparative figure of expenditure for the ten months of 1977 during which the scheme operated is £796,000. Premiums were paid during 1977 in respect of 2,698 employees of whom 2,016 were adults and 682 were school leavers.

While it is not possible at this stage to give a reliable estimate of the extent to which the scheme, as extended, will be availed of I am hopeful that in 1978 as many as 17,000 to 18,000 employees will benefit.

As announced by the Minister for Finance in the budget statement of 1 February 1978, the Government have decided that firms engaged in the clothing and footwear industries and some areas of the textile industry should be assisted by payment of £5 per week in respect of each worker on their payroll. This is a temporary measure intended to help firms in the labour-intensive sectors mentioned to maintain employment in circumstances of special need. It will be reviewed when the fully pay-related social insurance contribution system comes into operation. but payments may continue until March 1980 unless the scheme is terminated earlier. A sum of £5 million has been allocated for this purpose in the current financial year and is provided for in a Supplementary Estimate being taken with the main Estimate.

The scheme will operate with effect from the beginning of April 1978 and it is intended that payments will be made in respect of the 13 weeks ending 30 June 1978 as soon as practicable thereafter.

A draft scheme has been furnished to the EEC Commission in accordance with Article 93 (3) of the EEC Treaty and is at present under examination in Brussels. Full details of the scheme will be announced as soon as possible.

As you know, the Employment Action Team was established to come forward with possible schemes to stimulate youth employment. The team, which have been meeting at regular intervals since the end of September last, submitted their first set of proposals to me in mid-November. The proposals involved:—

a community fitness programme;

an environmental improvement schemes programme;

a work experience programme;

apprentice recruitment by local authorities; and

a community-based survey in Ballyfermot, et cetera.

With the exception of the proposal for a community fitness programme which is being incorporated by the Minister for Health into his community health programme, the other proposals have been approved in principle by the Government. Proposals for the implementation of the work experience programme are at present being worked out by the National Manpower Service of my Department in consultation with the appropriate agencies and pilot schemes for the first trainees will be under way in July.

The Government allocated £4 million for the implementation of the environmental improvement scheme programme and the Minister for the Environment has advised local authorities of their allocations. Projects are already planned and in many cases under way in all local authority areas.

The Government has allocated £200,000 for the funding of the scheme for increased construction industry apprentice recruitment by the local authorities. The local authorities have been asked to commence this recruitment without delay. The National Manpower Service of my Department will be assisting the local authorities in the recruitment for these programmes. A Supplementary Estimate introduced by the Minister for the Environment in respect of this allocation was recently passed by the Dáil. The Ballyfermot survey has started and the first instalment of the grant of £10,000 has been paid.

When the approved schemes are fully operational about 4,000 young people will benefit. It is difficult to give up-to-date figures on the numbers employed to date because of the large number of separate authorities involved. The latest information which I have, and which is not complete, relates to the position as at the end of April and indicates that about 300 people have been employed on the approved schemes while another 74 have been employed to supervise the schemes. The various agencies involved in the implementation of the schemes have been instructed to bring them to full operational level at the earliest possible opportunity.

The items of expenditure arising from the team's recommendations which are chargeable to my Department's Vote are set out in the Supplementary Estimate. I am currently engaged in a review of the team's work with the objective of developing the team's role in the Government's overall job-creation programme. There have been administrative problems in getting these schemes launched in certain areas but I am pressing all concerned to have their problems overcome to achieve full operation as a matter of urgency.

I am glad to say that despite very restricted resources the degree of penetration of the labour market by the National Manpower Service increased still further during 1977 and some 19,577 persons were placed in employment as against 18,549 in 1976. Commendable as these achievements are, I am not satisfied that the NMS are sufficiently well geared to meet their present commitments, not to talk of the additional duties the Government are asking them to undertake in relation to the various job creation programmes.

I am satisfied that more resources are needed by the service, particularly at field level. Therefore I propose, with the approval of the Minister for the Public Service, to expand this service substantially during the present year. We hope to recruit at least 30 extra placement officers from a competition which has recently been held and I expect some of these to take up duty before the end of June.

The occupational guidance service of the National Manpower Service has officers located in Dublin, Galway, Waterford, Sligo and Dundalk. I am satisfied that extra personnel are required for this branch of the service also and I propose to assign additional trained officers to other centres as soon as they become available later this year.

The Government in their manifesto have made a commitment to "the placement in suitable employment of those workers either mentally or physically disadvantaged." All Public Departments, local authorities, State boards and enterprises have been requested to employ a quota of disabled persons, and a 3 per cent quota has been set as a target to be achieved over five years. I have set up an interdepartmental committee to administer the quota scheme and to deal with problems arising and to monitor progress in relation to it.

The National Manpower Service provide comprehensive information about the requirements for practically every occupation available in the country. The information is published in leaflet form and there are at present 250 leaflets covering about 300 occupations, and about four million are distributed annually. In addition to the leaflets, a number of booklets containing information about careers for university graduates have been produced in consultation with university careers and appointments officers. The careers information service also participate in many careers exhibitions and seminars, and staff are available at these events to answer questions and give additional information to individual inquirers.

The purpose of the Resettlement Assistance Scheme is to provide financial assistance to help those who are obliged to move to other areas within the country and emigrants returning home to take up employment arranged for them through the National Manpower Service. Grants are also payable to persons to travel to undertake training or to be tested as to their suitability for such training.

Another responsibility of the Department is the licensing of private employment agencies. The annual licence fee for agencies was increased from £5 to £100, with effect from 1 February 1977, so as to obtain a reasonable contribution to the cost of administering the Act and to help in maintaining a high professional standard in the conduct of employment agencies.

For the effective implementation of manpower policy it is necessary to have adequate market information. The National Manpower Service carried out surveys for the last three years on the employment position of second-level school leavers. The 1977 survey of 1976 school-leavers showed that 57 per cent found employment, 8 per cent were unemployed, 2 per cent were not available for employment and 21 per cent went on to full-time higher education. About 2 per cent emigrated and the destination of 10 per cent was not known to the schools. A survey of last year's leavers is currently under way.

I have already referred to the census of labour availability which is being carried out in Ballyfermot on the recommendation of the Employment Action Team. I intended to examine the possibility of carrying out similar exercises in other areas.

I am very interested in studies on the functioning of the labour market. I welcome the increased attention being paid to this topic lately by research bodies and international organisations such as the OECD. My Department over the last year helped finance a post-graduate study at UCC on reasons for variations in the unemployment rate between Irish towns and between Ireland and a number of OECD countries. We are presently looking at the possibility of assisting the Institute of Public Administration to carry out a study on the relationship between growth and employment in the manufacturing sector.

A committee to advise on emigrant matters was set up by the Minister for Labour of the time in 1969. The committee have concentrated on assisting the National Manpower Service in bringing to the attention of emigrants and intending emigrants job opportunities at home. They have also advised on the distribution of grants to voluntary emigrant organisations which provide advisory services for intending emigrants.

While the situation has changed since the committee were set up, I feel that they may still have a useful contribution to make and I propose to continue the committee in existence at least for some time.

The redundancy payments scheme has been in existence since 1968 and since then it has helped over 90,000 persons who have lost their jobs because of redundancy. The scheme was adapted in 1971 and again in 1974 to improve benefits and to bring more people within the scope of the benefits.

The rate of notification of redundancies by employers has remained fairly constant at a little below 13,000 a year during 1976 and 1977. A significant reduction in the number of redundancies is expected this year.

The scheme has been a successful one and its benefits to workers and enterprises have been acknowledged. However, I propose now to revise the scheme to take account of the introduction of pay-related arrangements in the social welfare code. Discussions have been held with the Irish Employers' Confederation and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions about a number of amendments to the scheme which I have in mind and I plan to introduce amending legislation later in the year with the intention of having the changes operative from April 1979.

I now come to the subject of training on which my Department propose to spend approximately £16¼ million, or almost 50 per cent of total expenditure this year. This is an indication of the Government's serious commitment to industrial training.

In 1977 AnCO trained 12,837 adults and apprentices. This training was provided in 13 permanent training centres and four temporary centres and in facilities provided by public and private companies, State-sponsored bodies, educational establishments and other institutions. In addition, 24 mobile training units visited areas remote from the main centres providing short introduction-to-industry courses which last from four to eight weeks each, accommodating 12-24 trainees at a time. Almost 70 different types of courses, varying in length from two weeks to eight months were provided.

Total operation expenditure by AnCO in 1977 amounted to over £16 million. The exchequer provided £9.5 million and the balance, £6.5 million, came by way of grants from the European Social Fund.

For 1978 the Exchequer allocation for AnCO's training activities is fixed at £11,938,000. As much of their expenditure will qualify for matching grants from the European Social Fund AnCO expect to have a total of almost £22½ million available for operational expenditure in 1978. With these resources they expect to train almost 15,000 people, including 1.639 apprentices, during 1978. AnCO will also receive an Exchequer grant of £3.5 million for capital expenditure in 1978. A new training centre has already been opened this year in Tallaght, County Dublin to provide 400 training places when in full operation, and a new centre will open later this year in Athlone to provide over 200 training places. Work is also expected to commence this year on the construction of new training centres, in Cork, 700 places. Finglas, 400 places and Sligo, 150 places. A site for an additional training centre in the south Dublin area is also being sought at present. By the end of this year AnCO expect to have a total capacity of over 3,000 places in their own training centres and 1,386 of these will be reserved for first-year apprentices.

There are now 16,542 apprentices registered with AnCO. In co-operation with the Vocational Educational Committee block release courses were organised last year for 4,349 apprentices and day release courses for 4,853. In the same period 944 first-year apprentices were trained on off-the-job courses at AnCO training centres and 158 in facilities provided by other bodied. AnCO also admitted 220 out-of-work apprentices to their centres for further training in 1977. It is planned to train 1,162 apprentices on off-the-job courses in AnCO training centres and a further 477 in facilities provided by other bodies during 1978.

Progress with the new apprenticeship scheme continued during 1977. This new scheme, which commenced on 1 September 1966, is being implemented gradually over a five-year period to 1981. It will ensure that every apprentice in the designated trades will have comprehensive skill, training and education on a wider level, and that the skilled manpower needs of the economy will be adequately catered for.

There has been some controversy recently about the arrangements for the release of AnCO first-year apprentices into the educational system. Discussions on the matter have been taking place with the Department of Education and I am hopeful of finding a solution.

The community youth training programme, which has as its aim the provision of opportunities for young people to undergo training and to participate in work projects beneficial to local communities, provided training for 598 school leavers, redundant apprentices and craftsmen in 1977. The aim is to train 1,800 young people under the programme in 1978. Of the 86 projects undertaken throughout the country in 1977, the nature of the work ranged from the renovation of community halls and old people's homes to work on recreational facilities and amenity areas.

All AnCO training courses are open to both men and women and the same training allowances are payable to both sexes. In 1977, AnCO trained 2,684 women, an increase of 92 per cent on the previous year.

Despite the expansion of AnCO direct training activities the primary responsibility for training falls on the employer. There are now over 3,000 training managers and training instructors working in Irish industry. Industry is encouraged and assisted to define its own training needs and to prepare and implement programmes to meet those needs through levy/grant schemes which are devised by industrial training committees representatives of trade union, employer and educational interests and catering for designated industries. In general the schemes provide that every firm above a certain size must pay a levy of between 1 per cent and 1.25 per cent of its total payroll into a special fund administered by AnCO. Grants of up to 90 per cent of levy paid can be recouped by firms which carry out specified training activities. The remaining 10 per cent of levy is retained by AnCO as a contribution towards administrative expenses and the cost of providing a training advisory service. There are levy/grant schemes operating now in the textiles, clothing, footwear, food, drink and tobacco, engineering, construction, printing and paper and chemical and allied products industrial sectors.

There are 117 AnCO training advisers working out of Dublin and from regional offices. These advisers service 10.887 companies with a total workforce of 297,471 people. During 1977, the training advisers made 16,768 visits to 5,861 firms. It is estimated that 50,000 workers were in training within firms in 1977.

The substantial increase in both the current and capital Exchequer allocations to AnCO this year demonstrates a determination on the part of the Government to ensure that economic progress will not be impeded through lack of essential skills, or the adequate development of those skills in any industrial sector. I am confident that the ambitious expansion plans of AnCO for 1978 will go a long way towards ensuring that the Government's objective in this regard will be realised. There is a commitment in the Government's manifesto and in the recent White Paper on National Development to ensure that AnCO's training facilities will be expanded as rapidly as possible over the next few years. I would however also appeal to industry to consider seriously their skill requirements in the longer term so as to ensure that their present intake of apprentices will be adequate to cope with the requirements of a steadily growing economy in the years ahead.

AnCO are playing an important role in catering for the needs of young people. Apart from the specific programme aimed at young people, such as apprenticeship training and the community youth training programme, more than 75 per cent of all AnCO trainees are now under 25 years of age.

To raise the standards of practical management in Ireland through the provision of instruction in modern management techniques is the main objective of the management development activities of the Irish Management Institute. If the increased State investment in the training of workers is to be productive, we must have the highest attainable level of management to ensure that the skills of the workforce are used in the most efficient way. The Irish Management Institute are aware of the role which managers must play in this regard and the objective of the Government grant is to encourage the development and training of managers by the IMI.

The £375,000 which is provided in the Estimate for 1978 will, it is expected, be supplemented by grants from the European Social Fund. The fund grant approved for 1977 was £300,000.

In the latter half of 1977 the institute embarked on a new departure with a business development programme. The objective of this programme is to give concentrated attention and advice to small-and medium-size companies to ensure profitable expansion and consequent increased permanent employment.

A grant of £460,000 is provided for the Council for the Education, Recruitment and Training for the hotel, catering and tourism industries. The Exchequer provision is supplemented by aid from the European Social Fund, of which £280,000 was approved for 1977.

A national recruitment campaign aimed at young persons of intermediate and group certificate standard is conducted by CERT each year for those interested in training at craft level—to become chefs, cooks, waiters, waitresses and house assistants. In May 1977 interviews were held in 78 centres throughout the country and 421 trainees recruited. A total of 1,010 young people were in training at nine centres last year.

CERT also administer a programme of in-service training for the hotel, catering and tourism industries which in 1977 catered for training needs of 2,266 persons. A placement service operates within CERT and continues to be a central element in their over-all operation.

The need for the continued separate financing of CERT for training in the hotel and catering industry rather than through the main grant for industrial training paid to AnCO was raised with me some time ago. The files show that this particular issue also engaged the minds of my predecessors in office. I have decided that the matter should be examined and for this purpose I have set up a review group representative of my own Department, CERT, AnCO, Bord Fáilte and the Department of Education.

To conclude this portion of this review about employment and manpower policy, I should say that there is general recognition of the major role which economic growth has to play in achieving our employment targets. However, indications in other countries and indeed in Ireland in recent years are that economic growth on its own is not sufficient to produce a full employment situation. For example, there has been the underlying trend of rising unemployment in a number of major industrialised countries since the late 1960s despite unprecedented growth rates. Factors explaining this include the development of technology, the relationship between labour costs and capital costs, employment shifts from the industrial to the service sector, new jobs being taken up by new entrants to the labour force rather than by the unemployed, and mismatches between the kinds of jobs available and the kind which persons sought or were equipped for.

Manpower policy has a major role to play in overcoming these difficulties and will have a major role to play in an employment strategy. To promote study and discussion of matters like those I propose to reconstitute a committee similar to the former manpower advisory committee. Subjects that suggest themselves for consideration by the committee could include the role of manpower policy in the economic scenario envisaged in the White Paper, how to obtain better information on and a better understanding of the labour market and how our existing schemes might be expanded or adapted to fit the ambitious economic and employment objectives to which we are committed. I propose to act as chairman of the committee, which will be known as the Manpower Consultative Committee, with a senior officer of my Department serving as my deputy.

The next section of my statement will relate primarily to the Department's role in relation to the worker in employment, to such matters as safety, health and welfare, protective legislation, worker participation, and so on. While securing an improvement in the employment situation is a top priority I would like to make it clear that I am not losing sight of the objective of improving working conditions and the working environment. My approach to working conditions and the work environment is based on three principles:

work should respect the workers' life and health: this is the problem of safety and health in the workplace;

work should leave men and women free time for rest and leisure; this is the question of hours of work and their adaptation to an improved pattern for life outside work;

work should enable men and women to serve society and achieve self fulfilment by developing their personal capacities; this is the problem of the content and the organisation of work.

My Department are responsible for an ever-increasing number of regulations in relation to industrial safety and for the activities of a growing team of industrial inspectors. It is supported by the activities of bodies such as the National Industrial Safety Organisation and by extensive use of posters and explanatory leaflets. However, despite all these, and the efforts and exhortations of Government, trade union and employer representatives, accidents and illness associated with work remain. The figures are disturbing because they include a high proportion of the most commonplace and clearly avoidable accidents, such as the falling of persons or objects and accidents occurring during handling operations.

We already have in this country a detailed set of laws and regulations covering occupational safety and health. Activities designed to arouse awareness, to educate, advise and lead to the adoption of all possible measures are at least as important as legislation for penalties and so on. This is the idea behind certain clauses in the Safety in Industry Bill which I have recently introduced. As the Safety in Industry Bill is being debated extensively by the House, on its Second Reading and will continue to be discussed in its later Stages, I do not think I should go into its provisions in this debate.

I might also refer at this stage to another piece of safety legislation which is in preparation and deals with standards for the safety, health and welfare of persons employed on offshore installations in the exploration and exploitation of our natural resources. In addition to setting out general safety provisions giving me power to make technical regulations, the Bill will provide, on somewhat similar lines as for factories, for worker participation through the appointment of safety representatives or the election of safety committees at the installations. Preparation of the Bill is well advanced.

The main machinery in the State which deals with the enforcement of our occupational safety and health legislation is the industrial inspectorate of the Department of Labour. My Department also provides money to the voluntary National Industrial Safety Organisation. The provision in the Estimate for this organisation is £20,000 as compared with £15,000 for 1977.

The industrial inspectorate is an advisory service as well as an inspection body; in general, employers and workers do not have adequate recourse to this source of expertise. This point is brought out in the 1977 report on the activities of the inspectorate which has just been published. The inspectors' aim is to visit each factory once a year. Work places presenting special hazards are visited more frequently. This is a satisfactory level of inspection and will continue to be my policy while stressing that, where the indications warrant it, more frequent inspections of accident "black spots" will be made. I will continue to prosecute offenders for serious breaches of the Acts and Regulations.

The National Industrial Safety Organisation has the function of educating both workers and employers in the industrial area in regard to job safety. The organisation has a plentiful supply of literature and leaflets on all the main aspects of worker safety. They organise lectures for the staffs of firms and in general can be relied on as a useful source of advice. The function of the organisation is primarily educational.

The main thrust of our present legislation is to protect workers in industry. It will be necessary to examine in greater detail what protection exists and what new measures will be necessary for the protection of workers elsewhere. I am examining a proposal to establish a working party to consider and make recommendations about safety legislation for all persons at work and will make an announcement in the matter when replying to the debate on the Safety in Industry Bill.

My Department's inspectorate is also concerned with occupational health. Occupational health studies the interrelationship between health and work. Its highest priority must be the prevention of sickness and death due to industrial disease. It is my intention to continue the type of service provided by the Department of Labour which has yielded up to now valuable information in relation to occupational hygiene conditions, PVC, and the manufacture, use and storage of various chemicals in industry.

I have been taking steps to improve our knowledge of the situation of industrial disease in Ireland by seeking the co-operation of the medical profession in the matter of the notification of diseases whether or not they are diseases which must by law be brought to my attention and, indeed, in situations where there is only a reasonable suspicion of disease. I have asked the Department's industrial medical adviser, a doctor specialised in occupational health, to give priority in his programme to the areas of fact finding, education and the provision of information and advice.

In administering these services I believe it is appropriate to attempt to take a view of work time as part of a more general appraisal which would see work time in its relationship to economic and social development. In this context, policy with regard to hours of work would aim not only at protecting workers against the hazards of excessively long hours, but would also become an element in a broader economic and social policy embracing measures to combat unemployment and the quest to improve the worker's life.

In addition to the enforcement of that statutory minimum wages and conditions laid down in employment regulation orders and registered employment agreements, I have the responsibility of ensuring that the worker protection measures set out in various acts are complied with. These include the Conditions of Employment Act, the Holidays Act, the Unfair Dismissals Act, the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, and the Protection of Young Persons (Employment) Act.

Although the Department provide a considerable amount of information on the provisions of these Acts, I have noted a substantial lack of awareness on the part of workers, especially young workers, of their rights under the law and under employment regulation orders. It is my intention to seek to improve that situation. The policy of rigorous inspection of premises covered by employment regulation orders which produced arrears of pay of £40,000 in the past 12 months will be continued and intensified to the extent that resources permit.

Apart from such questions as protecting workers from occupational accidents and diseases and specifying minimum holidays and other entitlements, I believe there is a case for examining more closely the possibilities of fitting working conditions to the worker rather than making the worker always adapt to the conditions of the workplace. The subject in many respects is one which does not lend itself to legislation.

A certain amount of research and developmental work is being done by the Dublin-based European Foundation for the Improvement of Living and Working Conditions. The foundation has chosen amongst its top priorities such problems as the economic and social consequences of shiftwork and data processing in the service sector. We will be co-operating with the foundation and with other institutions such as the Irish Productivity Centre in exploring what needs to be done to make the work environment accord better with human needs.

Before being elected to office, this Government made clear their commitment to promoting meaningful employee participation in management decisions affecting workers' interests. However, the attainment of this aim does not rest solely with the appointment of elected employee directors to State boards. For instance, our recent White Paper on National Development made it clear that the Government would be happy to support any additional moves by the social partners in exploring ways and means of implementing arrangements such as those suggested in the draft national agreement on works councils, drawn up by a sub-committee of the Employer-Labour Conference.

In the meantime, I am pressing ahead with implementation of the Worker Participation (State Enterprises) Act, 1977. My target is to have elections held this year in as many of the seven State bodies covered by the Act as possible. Preparation of the various statutory instruments, which have to be made before the scheme can be brought into operation, is now nearing completion. The regulations on election procedures have already been made. I hope to be in a position very shortly to present for approval by the Oireachtas statutory orders altering the size of the boards of certain of the bodies concerned. This is an essential step to enable the elections to proceed. The orders will indicate how many seats will be represented by the one-third proportion of each board which will be set aside for candidates elected by the workers.

The system we have adopted for the State companies may require change and revision in the light of practical experience. For that reason I arranged to have the operation of the scheme monitored by the European Foundation for the Improvement of Living and Working Conditions in conjunction with the Irish Productivity Centre. It would be my intention to extend the Act to other State bodies as soon as possible, after we see how the elections have worked out in practice.

The Government are committed to working towards the elimination of discrimination in employment.

Under the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974, women doing like work with men are entitled to equal remuneration. The Employment Equality Act, 1977, makes it unlawful to discriminate in employment on grounds of sex or marital status as regards recruitment for employment, working conditions and also in access to training and promotional opportunities. People complaining that they have been denied their rights under these Acts can have recourse to the procedures of the Labour Court.

The Employment Equality Agency, which has been in operation since 1 October 1977, has been assigned the task of working in the public interest towards the elimination of discrimination in employment and promoting equality of opportunity in employment as between men and women. The agency will also be monitoring the working of both the 1974 and the 1977 Acts and will be reporting on the position in due course. In the meantime, I shall give careful consideration to any proposals which the agency may make to me.

The agency is at present engaged, at my request, on a review of those sections of the Conditions of Employment Act, 1936, which prohibit the employment of women in industrial work at night.

With the establishment of the agency as a statutory body and as my Department are paying a grant of £3,500 a year to the Council for the Status of Women, the position of the Women's Representative Committee needs to be considered so as to avoid overlap of functions. I extended the term of office of this committee to December 1978; during this period its future role will be reviewed. The Committee has done valuable work over the past three years and has made a number of submissions to Government and semi-State bodies on various issues of concern to women.

I will conclude this part of my speech by referring to two other pieces of legislation which I hope to introduce in the near future. The first will give effect to the European Communities' directive on the approximation of the laws of the member states relating to the safeguarding of employees' rights in the event of transfers of undertakings, businesses or parts of businesses. The second will amend the Truck Acts, 1831 to 1896, to facilitate the payment of wages by cheque.

In the next part of my statement I propose to refer to my Department's involvement in the European Communities, and I will deal specifically with the European Social Fund and the EEC social regulations for transport. I shall also touch briefly on the other international bodies with which the Department are concerned—International Labour Organisation, Council of Europe and OECD.

The over-riding social problem of the Community in the past few years has been the vast number of workers, now over 6 million in the member states, suffering unemployment. Attention to this problem has been a constant theme in the various Community institutions and meetings.

The European Council of Heads of Governments has discussed the unemployment situation at all its recent meetings. The March 1977 Council in Rome proposed that the matter should be discussed at a meeting of the Tripartite Conference, consisting of Finance Ministers, Ministers for Social Affairs and employer bodies and trade unions. The June 1977 Council in London requested the Commission to pay special attention in its work to the problem of structural unemployment among young people.

The meeting of the Tripartite Conference proposed by the European Council of March 1977 was held in June 1977. The views expressed at that conference, by the various groupings represented, were divergent but it was generally agreed that further studies would be necessary in regard to the restraints imposed by the international situation; the promotion of public or private investment; different means of work sharing; the role in employment creation of the tertiary sector.

The conference agreed that these studies should be carried out through the Standing Committee on Employment which represents Ministers for Social Affairs and the Social partners, and the Economic Policy Committee.

The Social Affairs Council of Ministers, on 28 October 1977, considered a Commission communication concerning the employment of young people and invited the Commission to prepare detailed proposals for Community aid for programmes designed to encourage youth employment.

The Standing Committee on Employment, at a meeting in November 1977, agreed that the Commission should work out proposals for the creation of new Community aids, including job subsidies, to promote employment particularly for young people. The Standing Committee on 21 March 1978 discussed employment problems with particular reference to the possibilities of work sharing, for example, shorter working hours, longer holidays, restrictions on overtime, early retirement and so forth. There was general agreement that the best way to create jobs is by economic growth and investment but that work sharing measures could help in the short term and that the next tripartite conference should discuss this aspect further. The EEC summit meeting in Copenhagen on 7 April 1978 agreed with these conclusions of the standing committee and expressed their deep concern over the persistent high rate of unemployment. The standing committee met last week to discuss employment in the tertiary sector.

The Irish delegations which attended these various Community meetings argued strongly for greater Community action in the field of employment and particularly for the application of Community measures to help ease unemployment problems in the weaker regions of the Community. The EEC Commission have very recently submitted proposals to the Council of Ministers for aid from the European Social Fund towards measures taken by member countries to relieve youth unemployment. I will give more information about these proposals in a few moments when I am speaking about the European Social Fund.

The EEC Council of Social Affairs Ministers are continuing their programme of work to improve conditions of workers throughout the Community. Some of the principal proposals being considered at present which impinge upon labour legislation and other functions of my Department are: a proposed Community action programme to deal generally with safety and health at work; a draft directive on the protection of the health of workers occupationally exposed to certain chemical hazards such as vinyl chloride monomer; a draft directive on the use of electrical equipment in explosive atmospheres; a proposed directive on harmonisation of laws of member states to combat illegal immigration and illegal employment; a proposed directive amending existing Community law on classification packaging and labelling of dangerous substances; a proposed directive on protection of workers in the event of insolvency of employer.

My Department continue to service the Commission and Council committees and working groups dealing with such proposals, with a view to influencing Community legislation and policies and safeguarding Irish interests.

My Department are also the central Government agency for the formulation and transmission to the European Commission of applications for assistance from the European Social Fund. Assistance from the fund has heretofore been directed to training, retraining and resettlement, usually on the basis of matching State expenditure on such services where they qualify for aid from the fund. I propose to give a progress report on the benefits we have received from the fund and some information on recent changes in the operation of the fund and about recent Commission proposals for further changes.

We have done well from the social fund and have succeeded in getting approvals for higher amounts each year since 1973. We have also, with the exception of 1975, increased each year the percentage we got of total social fund payments. For operations carried out in 1973 social fund assistance amounting to £4.1 million was approved. For 1974 operations the amount rose to £7.0 million, for 1975 to £9.4 million and for 1976 to £13.0 million. The figure for 1977 operations is £19.7 million.

As regards our share of the fund's budget, our approved operations accounted for about 5.4 per cent of the total fund in 1973 and the 1977 figure is expected to be about 8.2 per cent. From 1978 onwards the adoption of the new European unit of account will have the effect of reducing somewhat the percentage of the total fund budget we will receive because of the decline in the exchange value of sterling over the past few years.

A total of 18 applications, amounting to about £33 million, have been submitted to date to the Commission in respect of operations commencing in 1978. In some cases the amounts requested are provisional.

As Deputies may be aware, the rules governing the social fund were reviewed by the Council of Ministers in the summer of 1977. The revisions made have in general enabled us to maintain our favourable position in relation to receipts from the fund. There have however been certain changes made which should improve our position. The most important change is that the rate of aid has been increased to 55 per cent, as against 50 per cent previously, for a limited number of Community regions including Ireland. We had hoped for a higher rate than 55 per cent, as the Commission had proposed 65 per cent but the Council of Ministers would not agree to go beyond 55 per cent. Procedures have also been adopted to accelerate cash payments from the fund —30 per cent of grant is now payable when an approved operation commences and a further 30 per cent when half the operation is completed. The long delays which have been experienced between approval of projects for grants and actual payments has been one of the most criticised features of the fund heretofore and we are hopeful that the new arrangements, when they are fully in operation, will mean a substantial acceleration in the actual cash flow of money from the fund.

At the summer 1977 review the Commission had put forward a proposal for a new type of aid to promote better working conditions and to help maintain and create employment. We have been urging the Community for some years past to make resources available, particularly to the weaker regions, for direct employment creation. The particular proposals of the Commission were not accepted but the Council agreed to an amendment in the fund regulations covering fund assistance to promote employment in regions with particular employment difficulties. However, a further specific decision by the Council of Ministers is required to activate this clause.

Since the 1977 review, the question of Community aid for employment creation in the interests of young people has been given extensive consideration by the various EEC bodies, the European Council, the Council of Ministers, the Tripartite Conference, the Standing Employment Committee and so on. As a result the Commission have now come forward with a formal proposal for the creation of a new social fund aid in favour of young persons. The proposal visualises fund assistance towards expenditure incurred in granting recruitment premiums and in financing programmes for recruitment of young people for newly created jobs in activities or services in the public interest, the aids to apply to young job-seekers under 25 years of age. These proposals are of course of particular interest to us having regard to our problems about employment of young people and the fact that we have a higher proportion of young workers than any other Community country.

We have an employment premium scheme for young people and we have been developing various schemes of Community-type work by young persons. The Commission proposals will, of course, now have to be considered by the Council of Ministers but I will be pressing very hard at the council for early and favourable decisions on the proposals and for speedy implementation of the new aids.

The European Social Fund, has always been restricted by relatively limited resources. The introduction of new aids on the lines now suggested by the Commission is unthinkable without a substantial increase in the finance available to the fund. The Commission have proposed a commitment of 110 million European units of account, or about £75 million in 1979 for the new aids. I will be urging, at the Council of Ministers, that these additional funds should be provided and, indeed, any other funds necessary to ensure that all reasonable claims on the fund, particularly by the less-developed parts of the Community can be met.

Under the Treaty of Accession Ireland was required to implement the provisions of EEC Regulation 543/69 on 1 January 1976, in respect of domestic transport operations. That regulation prescribes, inter alia, maximum daily, weekly and fortnightly driving periods, a maximum continuous driving period; daily and weekly rest periods, and control procedures. Because of the substantial increase in both capital and running costs which would have been involved Ireland sought from the Commission three successive deferments in the application of the regulation to domestic traffic; these were granted and the last deferment expired on 31 December 1977.

Following lengthy discussions at three Councils of Ministers it was agreed in October last that where any member state experienced difficulties in implementing certain of the EEC Regulation's requirements in its domestic road transport operations it could request the Commission for authorisation to adopt protective measures.

On application by Ireland for such authorisation the Commission agreed to the phased introduction—during a period of three years—of those requirements which, from an Irish point of view, were likely to cause difficulties. In the near future I propose to make regulations to give effect to the Commission decision and a draft of these regulations is under examination by the Commission.

I should like to avail of the opportunity to acknowledge the understanding and support which we received from other member states and from the EEC Transport Directorate during the protracted negotiations which led to acceptance of the eventual phasing-in arrangements.

The matter of implementing the EEC Tachograph Regulation 1463/70 remains outstanding. I should explain that a tachograph is a mechanical device which when fitted to a vehicle can record the speed at which the vehicle is being driven, the distance it has driven and the length of time it has been driven. Breaks from driving and the duration of breaks are also recorded. The use of the tachograph has been incorporated in the EEC Regulations as a most effective means of ensuring compliance with certain of the provisions of the Social Regulation 543/69. Strictly, under Regulation 1463/70 we should have been requiring the installation and use of the tachograph on certain vehicles used in domestic traffic since 1 January 1976.

The Commission have been pressing us to take action in the matter of installation and use of tachographs for some time past and unless we can make progress on the matter sufficient to satisfy the Commission we are liable to be brought before the European Court of Justice on the issue in the not too distant future.

The Government are anxious to fulfil our commitments on the social regulations generally and to avoid being brought before the European Court on the tachograph issue. While these regulations pose very severe problems for both employers and workers in the Irish transport industry, we accept that the Commission and our fellow member-countries have gone to considerable lengths to facilitate us in the painful process of adapting to the regulations. My Department have recently had discussions with employer bodies and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions about the adaptation problems.

The Government's aim is to secure acceptance of the regulations and their implementation in an orderly fashion with the minimum of disruption. However, the realisation of this aim will be far from easy. I intend to arrange further discussions with employer bodies and ICTU in the hope that some generally-acceptable solutions can be found to these most complex and difficult problems.

As in previous years an Irish tripartite delegation will be attending the 64th Session of the International Labour Conference next month. This conference will consider, inter alia, proposed new international instruments on labour administration—role, functions and organisation; freedom of association and procedures for determining conditions of employment in the public service; revision of the Protection against Accidents (Dockers) Convention (Revised), 1932, and hours of work and rest periods in road transport.

Ireland continues to support the work of the ILO in the setting and supervision of labour standards and working conditions throughout the world. Last year the US left the organisation in protest against what they described as a movement away from the traditional principles and procedures of the organisation. We regret this. The US were a founder member and by far the largest contributors to the finances of the ILO. With our partners in the EEC we are hopeful that it will be possible to overcome the problems which caused the withdrawal of the US. We shall also continue to strive to safeguard the principles and procedures of the organisation. Following the US withdrawal member states were asked to make a voluntary contribution to help the ILO over their financial difficulties. In common with the other members of the EEC, Ireland made an appropriate contribution.

My Department's involvement in the work of the Council of Europe is concerned with the European Social Charter. Member states are required to report biennially on the application of the provisions of the charter. The Sixth Biennial Report, covering the years 1976-77, is due in 1978.

In the fight against unemployment an increasingly important role is being played by the influential Manpower and Social Affairs Committee of the OECD through in-depth analysis, exchange of views, suggestions for possible lines of action and the 1976 recommendation on a general employment and manpower policy.

The urgent problem of youth unemployment was discussed last December at a high level OECD conference under the chairmanship of the US Secretary of Labour. I attended this conference. Ministers attending concluded that in order to solve the problem of youth unemployment special measures will continue to be needed for some years to come in addition to economic growth.

I turn now to the subject of industrial relations. Since the commencement of the national wage agreements in 1970 there has been a notable reduction in the number of man-days lost due to strikes. In that year over 1,000,000 man-days were lost. Since then annual man-days losses have been lower and only in 1976, when the bank strike alone accounted for 460,000 man-days lost out of a total of about 775,000, did the position revert to anything approaching the alarmingly large 1970 figure. It is estimated that in 1977 somewhere in the region of 450,000 man-days were lost due to strikes. The monitoring unit of my Department continues to alert me to disputes and dispute situations.

An assessment of the industrial relations scene during the past year reveals some disquieting developments which give cause for concern. There has been, for example, the incidence of unofficial strike action. It is exceedingly difficult to condone the conduct of those who resort to unofficial or wildcat industrial action. There are extensive agreed procedures for the resolution of grievances and ample machinery exists in the form of the conciliation service of the Labour Court, the rights commissioner service and the Labour Court itself for the settlement of disputes. Further protection of workers' interests is afforded by the workers' protection legislation.

Yet we have seen procedures and institutions repeatedly ignored, admittedly by a minority, but a minority which is determined to press ahead with disruptive action regardless of the consequences for fellow workers and the community at large. On occasions these minorities have been supported by other sections of the workforce for whatever reason— due maybe to a misplaced sense of loyalty. The end result has been the unnecessary damage to the operation and validity of a number of undertakings. It is remarkable that we have more unofficial strikes than official ones. Last year alone the approximate loss of 450,000 man-days included about 181,000 days, or 40 per cent of the total, that were attributable to unofficial action.

Different reasons have been advanced for this situation. In some cases there has been a breakdown in trade union discipline; in some cases it is said that trade union officials are out of touch with the shop floor. In other cases the action was brought about as a result of justifiable discontent about working conditions over long periods. There have been cases where management was clearly not devoting sufficient resources to the maintenance and improvement of communications with employees. I have no doubt that a well-developed personnel function which would maintain good relations between management and the workers can be of enormous benefit in identifying and heading-off potentially explosive situations at work.

At a time when unemployment is unacceptably high it is of the utmost importance that we should maintain our competitiveness on the export market and that we should do all we can to encourage increased foreign investment here. If we are to make progress in either of these areas it is imperative that a reduction be brought about in the incidence of industrial disputes.

At this point I feel I should like to refer to the idea, discussed from time to time, that the incumbent of the office of the Minister for Labour should carry responsibility for the settlement of disputes. More personal intervention in industrial disputes by the Minister for Labour has been advocated from time to time and especially in recent months. For myself I am always reluctant to adopt such a role, as it can so easily be seen or construed as interference with the dispute-settling institutions and agencies. The Oireachtas has authorised the establishment of that machinery; the trade union movement and the employers participate in it. To the extent that they constitute a majority on the Labour Court they control and operate the system, and this House votes the money to staff and maintain it. Besides, I submit that it is efficient and fair. Indeed, I am aware that features of it have been copied by other countries.

It should be used, not ignored or bypassed or undermined. Every time a Minister becomes personally involved in an industrial relations dispute he takes the risk of diminishing the status of the institutions and impairing their usefulness for the future. At the same time, I accept that on occasions, where disputes affecting essential industries and supplies are inflicting hardship on the community and where recourse to the dispute settling institutions have not succeeded in securing a settlement, it may in the public interest be necessary for a Minister to intervene.

It is clear that we cannot and must not allow the law of the jungle to operate in the industrial relations area. There must be order and discipline. Areas of conflict between employers and unions have always been part and parcel of the industrial relations scene. Is conflict inevitable? Is complete harmony between both sides of industry an unattainable goal? These are questions for continuing debate and argument. What I earnestly believe however is that by patient endeavour and goodwill the areas of conflict between the employer and the employed can be reduced, not at once but piecemeal over time. This is something which I suggest we should work towards.

Having said this, I believe that a long hard look must be taken at the operation of the existing industrial relations system. The Commission on Industrial Relations, the establishment of which I announced some time ago and the membership of which has been published, will be holding their first meeting on 30 May. While the range of their examination will be necessarily wide, I hope that the commission will find it possible to come up with positive recommendations which will lead to improvements in the industrial relations area. It will of course be open to the commission to issue interim reports on any issues which seem to them to merit urgent attention. It is also my intention that the commission should furnish an early report on the structure and operation of the Labour Court which has come in for a deal of criticism—much of which I believe to be unjustified—in recent times.

I would like to refer briefly to the problem of inter-union disputes. Disputes of this kind can prove to be particularly intractable, especially in situations where one party is not affiliated to the ICTU. It is a matter for regret that a few trade unions continue to remain outside of congress. I would hope that it will prove possible in the near future to arrive at some accommodation between unions which would lead to the evolution of procedures whereby these disputes can be settled. As I have said many times, we have far too many unions for our relatively small workforce. I have repeatedly pointed to the arrangements made available under the Trade Union Act of 1975 for facilitating amalgamations through simplified legal procedures. Provision is also made for the recoupment to the unions concerned of the costs involved. Since the enactment of the legislation there has unfortunately been little movement by the trade unions towards achieving a reduction in their numbers and only one merger has been completed. Some initiative is clearly called for to encourage desirable mergers. It is particularly necessary to get the message across to trade unions of the advantages for them and their members of coming together in larger units to cater for similar categories of workers.

I would like to see a strong and united trade union movement. As an earnest of their support also for such a development the Government have made available for trade union education in the current year a grant of £193,000. The grants which have been paid over the years to congress represent a sizeable financial investment by the State in trade union education and are indicative of the confidence which the Government repose in the role which a more informed trade union movement can play in the economic and social development of the community.

As Deputies will know, the Government, in their election manifesto set out a blueprint for economic and social advancement which will make a valuable contribution towards the easing of our two most pressing problems, namely, the reduction of unemployment and the lowering of inflation.

The first real test of our ability to cope with difficult situations came with the task facing both sides of industry in negotiating a new national wage agreement. This was not an easy task, coloured and influenced as it was by the restrictions on incomes and employment which went hand in hand with the period of economic recession. This first hurdle has been overcome. The successful conclusion of this agreement has demonstrated the will to preserve the co-operation between employers and trade unions which has existed over the past seven years through centrally negotiated national wage agreements. These agreements have demonstrated that this kind of co-operation is beneficial to both sides of industry and I am glad that this co-operation is to continue.

It is fair to say that this country has now begun to pull itself out of the trough of the economic recession and is already well on the road towards economic recovery. Progress has been made towards the achievement of the Government's targets in relation to employment and towards the reduction of the intolerable inflation rates of recent years. The success we have already achieved in these areas is sufficient evidence to show that we as a nation possess the resilience and the confidence in ourselves to face up to challenging situations, to decide on the options to meet these challenges and to carry through decisions and policies.

I am confident that, through the committed application of all our skills and initiatives, we can grasp and use to the full the opportunities for economic growth, better employment and the attainment of improved living standards for our people that now present themselves.

The most central problem confronting the Minister, the Government and the country is unemployment. The Minister made a very protracted speech but spent only about 5 per cent of his time, if that, on the question of unemployment. He gave no recognition of the gloom that pervades the country and the hundreds of thousands of people affected. That gloom will only be worsened and darkened by his total lack of reference to the depth of the crisis this country and the whole western world faces. I will deal with unemployment more fully in a moment.

Briefly, I want to analyse the Minister's performance in the hope that any criticism we have to offer will urge him towards a better performance. In the ten months he has been in office the Minister has done some things. He created the Employment Action Team. In August he said the emphasis would be on action. We have tried in vain in this House to get the Minister to admit that very few jobs have been created. Even as late as last week the Minister could not say how many jobs had been created. Now he tells us that 300 jobs will be created but they are short-term measures. Forty of those jobs are on an unemployment survey in my constituency in Ballyfermot. The people were employed on 1 May and the job will be finished on 30 May.

Is the Deputy objecting?

I am repeating what I have said all along, that the Employment Action Team is just a charade. Some people are being used by the Minister but there is no action and there are no jobs. The Minister was forced to admit this in his statement today.

The second thing the Minister did was to announce the establishment of an Industrial Relations Commission. That was first referred to by him last October but, on his own admission last week, it took him until January to write to the social partners. At the same time he announced the proposed chairman of the commission, a distinguished Professor of Industrial Relations who happens to be a Fianna Fáil Senator. For that reason or because of lack of consultations he was forced to withdraw the name of the proposed chairman and to appoint a second person after consultation. Apart from the embarrassment to Senator Professor Hillery, to which I have already referred in this House, I should have thought it elementary for anybody dealing with industrial relations to have prior consultations with the partners concerned. That instance gives an insight into the lack of grasp of workers and their problems on the part of the Minister and the Government.

The third thing the Minister did was to introduce a Bill dealing with safety in industry. A discussion document had been circulated by his predecessor just before he left office. There is no doubt that there is need for new legislation in the area of health, safety and the welfare of workers, but the Bill was brought in after very scant consultation. Any advice or recommendations he received were ignored and now we have a Bill with which nobody is happy—the ICTU, the doctors and everybody else are unhappy with what the Minister is proposing. Again, there was the absence of consultation.

There is also the matter of the appalling strike situation during the past ten or 11 months. Until two weeks ago we were in a chaotic situation. I have responsibility for matters relating to labour and I have raised constantly in this House the situation where we have had one strike after another. We have had three major strikes since the Minister took up office—the telecommunications strike, the Aer Lingus strike and the strike at Ferenka. The Minister's performance in relation to the telecommunications dispute to say the least was most unfortunate. His performance in the Ferenka dispute was absolutely disastrous. The Minister has not been forthcoming at Question Time. He could take a leaf out of the book of some of his colleagues who are much more forthcoming and ready to give information to this House. Then, perhaps they have a better record.

That leads me to a brief analysis of the performance of the Government. It is only fair to recall that in 1977 we had the highest annual growth rate that we have ever experienced. We had a huge increase in exports and in productivity. In addition, £50 million was provided in the 1977 January budget by the former Minister for Finance, Deputy Ryan, for job creation. The employment incentive scheme was created.

What have this Government done to aid the very favourable economic factors in order to increase employment? They abolished wealth tax, car tax and rates on domestic dwellings. There was a certain merit in abolishing domestic rates because it was a penal liability for most ordinary people; but, unfortunately, it created no jobs. Unfortunately, the bigger the mansion the greater the benefit. The same people who were gaining from the abolition of wealth tax gained from the abolition of rates. While all this was happening the Government could not manage to increase the children's allowances or to lower the age for old age pensions.

These are matters for another Minister.

If the Chair will bear with me for a moment I will show I am being relevant. The Government removed the subsidy from certain foodstuffs, bus fares were increased and there was a lot of anti-trade union noises from the Government. All of this adds up to a Government of the rich, a capitalist Government who have no sympathy for or understanding of the workers. Not one member in their ranks have any relationship with the working people.

We are dealing with the Department of Labour. There is wide scope in the Minister's speech——

Is the Chair saying I am confined to the Minister's speech? If I am it will be a very restricted debate. I have been analysing the Government's performance to date as it affects the Department of Labour and the question of employment. In his speech the Minister told us that the reduction in unemployment for the most recent week for which figures are available—the week before last— as compared with the same week last year is 7,200. On the very same page he told us that the jobs created by the employment incentive scheme, which was the creation of the National Coalition, numbered 5,900. The fact is 1,300 jobs have been created outside the employment incentive scheme and he has told us that 300 of them are short-term jobs. The House will be very sorry to hear those figures which the Minister has contrived to make as unclear as possible. The actual figure is 7,603. The number of jobs created by the employment incentive scheme is 5,391, a difference of about 2,200.

The Deputy should read it properly.

If the Minister subtracts 5,391 from 7,603 he will get 2,200, even if he went to school in Cork. That is in a situation where we have had unprecedented economic growth, increased exports and increased productivity. What have the Government done? Where have their policies gone wrong that they have not produced any more jobs? It is very clear that not one extra job has been created which would not have been created if the Fianna Fáil Government had not come into power. There is very strong prima facie evidence that a lot more jobs would have been created if the Fianna Fáil Government were not elected.

Like over the last three years.

The Minister was allowed to read his long speech without being interrupted. I expect the same facility from the House.

The Chair will afford that facility to the Deputy.

I will now analyse, as far as I can, the real extent of the unemployment problem. During the election campaign Fianna Fáil estimated that there were approximately 50,000 unregistered unemployed, that is, approximately 50,000 more people unemployed than the registered showed up, because it is not a very accurate barometer for many reasons. When we had the previous Estimate for the Department of Labour, when the Minister was shadow Minister, he estimated the figure then at 200,000. At the moment we have a registered unemployed figure of approximately 106,000 and we have an estimated 50,000 unregistered unemployed.

We have the lowest participation rate in Europe of women in employment. If jobs were available it is likely that twice as many women would work than do at the moment. We are very poor on productivity. We produce per man half what every German worker produces. That has been shown in the NESC, Report No. 35, Employment Projections, produced last October. That adds up to a very frightening situation. It not only calls for urgent co-ordinated measures on behalf of the Government but also asks for help from every single quarter in the country, political parties in or out of Government, trade unions in Congress or not, employers in private enterprise or not and individuals employed or unemployed. Everybody has a responsibility to bring about a solution to the extraordinary problem which faces us.

It has been said many times, but it is no harm to repeat it now, that one of the most depressing aspects of the unemployment situation is the proportion of unemployed who are young and the proportion of our population who are young. This presents a very serious challenge to us. I have tried to analyse the full extent of the unemployment problem. When the Minister was over here he said the figure was 200,000, but that was probably an under estimate of the real unemployment figure. If we were to be as productive as other countries, have everybody in real jobs and not made jobs, we would probably need something like 250,000 jobs. The dimension of the problem is so great that it not only calls for the help of everybody in the country but calls into question the entire system if the problem is not resolved.

There is no evidence of the realisation of the extent of this problem in the Minister's speech today. The people unemployed, whether registered or not, and their families need to be given hope of some stable employment as soon as possible. What hope can they get from what the Minister said today? What hope can the people in this House give to the thousands of people on the dole? There is certainly no hope in the Government's policy of placing all their eggs in the private enterprise basket. They have made a very fundamental mistake in their budget strategy. Private enterprise have been wheedling out of the situation. I believe the Government have made that mistake because Irish industry is already overmanned and underproductive. Private industry has to be profitable and competitive and the Government are asking them to employ more people when by German and other European standards they have twice as many as they really need. It is not possible to create jobs in an area where there are already twice too many. The only thing which can explain the Government's action is an ideological commitment to private enterprise and capitalism. Not only are we in this party not against private enterprise but we see its great value. We see the need for incentive to private enterprise. But we will not be ideologically caught up in thinking that everything must rely on private enterprise because we know that is a dead-end, is not a recipe for hope and our young people but rather one for despair.

This Government is an ideologically conservative one. It is a Government of the rich, as they have shown so amply in every single thing they have done since coming into power. That is not to say that all Members of the Government would be so disposed. For instance, I do not believe the Minister for Labour is so disposed. But to date he and others who may think like him have not yet been able to counterbalance the very strong forces of conservatism that monopolise the Government, the same forces that I believe have been making the anti-trade union noises, that have been pushing for anti-trade union legislation in the mistaken belief that that way they will put the unions in their place, as they think. The unemployed can be given hope only if the Government see the errors of their ways quickly and agree to committing themselves to a radical programme of public investment in areas heretofore excluded.

In the past few months the Minister for Fisheries was asked the question if he would consider setting up a national fishing fleet, an area which needs the sort of investment that only the Government or very large private enterprise could provide, certainly the type of investment that our fishermen could not imagine. The answer given by the Minister for Fisheries was: Oh, no, this Government believe in private enterprise. Surely our fisheries is one area we have completely neglected over the years. When we see the Bulgarian, Russian and Spanish factory ships off our coasts it must give us some inkling as to the possibilities for ourselves. But the Minister for Fisheries of this conservative, pro rich Government said: No, we believe in private enterprise. That is ideological conservatism and, in our context, is mad. We need in this House to give hope to the multitude unemployed and that hope can be given only by a radical change in the Government's policies. I appeal to the Minister to use his influence on the Government in the Green Paper they are now drawing up to see the errors of their ways, to change them and place emphasis where there is most hope, thereby relieving the terrible gloom.

The Deputy's party did no do much over the past four-and-a-half-years except talk about it.

I was very tempted to interrupt the Minister but I kept quiet.

The Deputy was listening to common sense.

In addition to the brief analysis I made earlier of the full unemployment situation I indicated that the total number of jobs possibly created by the policies of this Government were 2,200 because the 5,700 employed as a result of the employment incentive scheme must be credited to the Coalition Government. If the truth were known some of those 2,200 jobs about which we are talking——

Did the Deputy ever hear of the extension of that scheme to the service industry where most of them came from?

I am sorry I am annoying the Minister.

The Minister should remember that he is a Minister now and not a spokesman for the Opposition.

Perhaps Deputy Mitchell would keep to the Estimate for the Department of Labour.

I was making the point that of this reduction in unemployment figures of 7,900 5,700 were provided out of the employment incentive scheme. In addition there was £50 million provided in Deputy Richie Ryan's last budget. Some of that amount has created a fair number of jobs. I asked a series of questions of every Minister in the Government about the number of jobs created out of moneys provided and I think it comes to approximately 4,000 up to the end of last year.

In addition we have at present people in what I call make-work situations, phoney jobs, created not to relieve unemployment but to take the bad look off the register of unemployed. For instance, we have 12,500 people in training. I think the Estimate for this year is that there will be 15,000 people in training. Admittedly, there are some very valuable courses run by AnCO and other people but there is an awful lot of hogwash as well— people attending courses out of which they do not get very much. Therefore, in the short-term it takes the bad look off the true unemployment situation. Last year there were nearly one million man-days spent on training by AnCO —I think it was something like 930,000. That works out at about 4,000 man-years on the basis of 230 working days per year. Let us say that half the courses are really valuable ones but there would be about half that figure really unemployed. These are features that did not exist, say, ten years ago when the customary unemployment was something between 57,000 and 71,000. In those days there was not the extensive training there is now. Therefore, the comparative situation is much grimmer than official statistics show.

The other factor that helps to keep the unemployment figures down is emigration. The Minister for Economic Planning and Development has admitted that there has been a return to emigration. Admittedly, there was a return last year but there has been an increase so far this year. A recent edition of the Irish Post, the newspaper published by the Irish communities in England, had the banner headline: “Return of Emigration”. They were reporting ever-increasing numbers of Irish people arriving at different Irish clubs and centres looking for jobs and accommodation. All of this adds up to absolute disaster as far as the Government are concerned. God help us if what is happening in the rest of Europe happens here—low growth or no growth—when we would certainly be in a very difficult situation. Some short-term solutions or schemes have been put forward and discussed by different people to take the worst pressure off the unemployment situation. They are almost all not wealth-creating jobs but wealth-consuming. They are almost all in the category of what was known during the Famine period as poor law relief work.

I suppose, although I am not sure about it, that it does help. But I sometimes think it would be much better if we knew exactly how many are unemployed because then the pressure might be generated which would result in the adoption of the radical policies necessary to provide any hope of a solution. So long as the picture is painted a little rosier than it actually is or so long as it is distorted by these short-term palliatives, then the longer the adoption of real solutions will take. On balance, short-term measures help to relieve the worst social effects of unemployment, but I would be very sorry if these antidotes which give temporary relief were the very reasons why real solutions are not attempted. I would be very sorry if a little medicine killed the patient. I shall be watching the situation very closely over the next few months and monitoring the effect of these short-term measures on the adoption of real solutions.

One solution, or part of a solution, now being widely discussed, certainly by the FUE—the Minister alluded to it twice in his speech and it is being talked about by the Standing Committe on Employment in the EEC— is work sharing. The Minister for Economic Planning and Development has been talking about it. He has also been talking about income sharing. Now the only people who would be sharing their work and their incomes would be the ordinary workers, not the wealthy and not the investors whom the Government has so handsomely rewarded. Working people will be expected once again to bear the brunt of work sharing. The situation is so bad and the outlook so horrible and daunting I would not exclude any idea which would effectively reduce unemployment, because unemployment is not just a paramount problem facing the Minister, the Government and the State, but is a cancer in our society.

Work sharing must be discussed. It is no harm to debate it here and to set people thinking and talking about it. What would be its likely effects? What does it mean? It means getting more people to do the same volume of work that fewer people are doing now. That could be achieved in a combination of different ways. For instance, overtime could be abolished. That is very beautiful in theory and Professor Walshe at the IMI conference drew attention to the fact that, if one could transfer overtime into real jobs, the registered unemployed would disappear. That is quite so because the average working week in 1977 was 44.3 hours which meant the average worker worked 10 per cent of his normal work in overtime and, coincidentally, that is the percentage of the workforce registered as unemployed.

A ban on all overtime would be very fine in theory but it would not work out in practice. In many areas there are seasonal peaks. In many areas exports would be lost. In other areas you would have workers used to overtime with a standard of living geared to a particular level of pay and remuneration. It is not just a question then of creating more jobs by banning overtime. Complex factors are involved. The official policy of all trade unions is that overtime is undesirable. It is not in the worker's interests in the long-term. It is bad socially. Tell the boys that and you are immediately in trouble because there is a conflict between central trade union thinking and local demand.

Other areas mentioned in the context of work sharing are a reduced working week, earlier retirement, a higher school leaving age, the encouragement of leave of absence for training abroad, a stay-at-home allowance for mothers, and a larger Army. All these are things that should be encouraged because they are socially desirable in themselves. Everybody would be happy to work fewer hours per week. Many people would be happy to retire earlier. From my own experience in the company in which I had the privilege to work an earlier retirement scheme was introduced very successfully and most of the men who retired at 55 are today looking very fit and well, I am glad to say. Early retirement enabled them to take up new interests and new hobbies. Early retirement is socially desirable but I would not make it compulsory. I would not regard it as an essential part of a solution to the unemployment problem. A higher school leaving age would help but it would also create problems because the more educated your workforce the more frustration if that workforce cannot find employment.

I do not know if it would be possible to legislate for the right of workers to leave of absence. I know a worker who recently asked a Department of State if he could defer his appointment for three months so that he could go abroad. His application was refused. To me, that was crazy. There are many young people and many not so young who would be very happy to go abroad, especially to the EEC, for a year or two. I put that forward for serious consideration not just to encourage leave of absence but to more than encourage it. There is a future in it and the country will benefit from experience gained abroad if we have many young people going to France or Germany to learn their systems, languages and cultures. Irish life generally would be enriched by that apart from its contribution to reducing unemployment.

Deputy Kelly, Fine Gael spokesman on Industry, Commerce and Energy, has drawn attention to the grossly underproductive land we have. He has pointed out the prospects in the agricultural area as he sees it. Millions of acres of land are not producing anything, not to talk about the majority of farms which produce less than they could and certainly much less than their Danish counterparts. In my view, not only is there great potential in agriculture but there is also great potential in spin-off industries of agriculture through food processing and so on. We have some of the best land in Europe; we could produce many times more than we are producing: we have half the world starving— surely this is a situation that gives us a unique opportunity to develop and expand in the interests of the country and the world.

Semi-State bodies like Bord Bainne, CBF, and the Pigs and Bacon Commission have been active in the area of agricultural exports in Europe and around the world but much more remains to be done in that area. I believe that along with fisheries it presents the greatest area of hope for the thousands now persistently and chronically unemployed.

We are surprisingly weak in the area of merchant shipping. As an island we have been notoriously bad —this applies to fisheries also, I suppose—in respect of our lack of involvement in this area. For instance, during the famine in the last century we had millions starving while we had the riches of the sea around us, a most stark example. We have a very small merchant fleet. There are possibilities for employment creation in the merchant shipping area. It would remedy an economic weakness we have because if a war situation or some similar situation occurred— admittedly that is unlikely but it is possible—we could be very exposed due to lack of shipping tonnage. There is the happy coincidence that if we tried to increase our shipping tonnage we could create jobs on the ships for Irish people and perhaps create jobs in building the ships. At the moment I cannot lay hands on comparative figures for merchant shipping fleets here and in other countries but our position is very weak and we are very exposed. These are areas that should be examined closely and with a fresh approach. Perhaps in the past these areas did not represent economic propositions but because of the social cost if we do not develop them, they now become more economically and socially viable.

There is also the obvious area of infra-structure development—the appalling roads and telephone service and the whole communication area generally.

Would that not be more appropriate on Posts and Telegraphs?

No, I am talking about building these things. These are jobs, or where jobs might be created. I think the country would benefit more if the £30 million spent on car tax was spent on building roads, because that would have employed people. This serves to highlight the way in which the Government got their priorities all wrong. To be fair, the Government produced a beautiful dream last June and people dreamed that dream which has now turned into a nightmare. It was very nice to have you car tax paid for you but not very nice to have a husband, son or daughter unemployed. I know the choice any serious and intelligent person would make given those alternatives. The Government bought the election by promises of that nature which they have had to fulfil, but they also bought ruin and destruction for the country. The nightmare goes on.

There is need to invest in roads and telephones and so on. That would create jobs and there would also be the advantage of producing jobs quickly if there is urgent action in building roads. Roads and communications are so bad at present that they are impeding industrial development. In the past few months letters have been received by me and by others on this matter directly and indirectly. The IDA have received letters from different firms. I read one of them in the House not long ago, saying that they could not recommend Ireland as a place for industrial development to anybody who asked them because you cannot make a phone call and because it is impossible to get your goods, for instance, from Dublin to the West or to the ports—it takes too much time.

There are areas crying out for immediate investment. There are areas which would have produced jobs much quicker than the abolition of car tax and wealth tax. The abolition of wealth tax in particular has not produced one job. It was a gift to the wealthy, a gift to the handful of millionaires in this country. Maybe it was a thank you gift. I do not know. Certainly it was no gift to the unemployed. It did nothing to create confidence, because confidence was already there. We already had unparalleled growth.

Now we are told by the Central Bank it is unlikely that growth this year will be greater than last year. The Government talked about 7 per cent growth, and the Central Bank are now talking about 5? per cent growth, the same as last year. What has the abolition of wealth tax done? It is just part of the capitalistic ideology which has gripped the Government. Not one job has been created as a result of the abolition of wealth tax. That money could have been invested in jobs building roads, providing telephones and building more houses. Much could have been done in real job creation, instead of wasting it on luxuries. Money has been wasted on poor law relief work, as I call it, and the reasoning has been "If you do that, the EEC will pay 55 per cent for all AnCO training. They will subscribe to this that and the other. Go for those things. Do not go for real jobs. Give the money to the wealthy. They will subscribe to party funds."

I suppose the Deputy will get back to the Estimate for the Department of Labour some time.

I am talking about jobs. I know the Minister does not think jobs have anything to do with his Department. He has been referred to as the Minister for Unemployment. He did not refer very much to unemployment in his speech. I want to draw to the attention of the House the fact that the policies of the Government have not only been wrong but the direct opposite of what is required. The main job creating bodies are the IDA, Córas Tráchtála, in that the more we sell the more jobs we are likely to create, the Industrial Consortium, about which I know very little and about which the House knows very little, the other agricultural bodies I mentioned: CBF, Bord Bainne, the Pigs and Bacon Commission. The more they sell, the better the spin-off effect on jobs. Over the years the IDA have been successful in attracting some industries.

I was hoping the Deputy at some stage would link his general remarks to the Estimate.

I am talking about jobs.

The Deputy may not range over all the Departments of State.

I am building up to a contention about this whole area.

I have allowed the Deputy to build up for a long time but he seems to be discussing matters generally.

I want to draw the attention of the House to the way we are trying to create jobs and the way we might create jobs. That is very relevant to this Estimate. The Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy is responsible for the IDA. When the Minister for the Labour was a shadow Minister he made the point that there should be a Minister for Employment. Nobody in the Cabinet has overall responsibility for employment. The Minister for Labour is looking over his shoulder at the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, who is looking over his shoulder at the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, who is looking over his shoulder at the Minister for Finance.

There is no co-ordination. There is no central thinking. There is no effective co-ordinating action.

The IDA have been successful in providing jobs but unfortunately, in a world sense, most of those jobs are in hind tit industries. They are small spin-off factories from mother factories elsewhere. Recently I was amazed to hear leading trade unionists say we could not take a factory employing 5,000 workers because we would not have the workforce. That highlights the situation. At the outside, the biggest number of jobs we have ever had in one plant is 2,000. We are not geared to attract big industry. That is a major structural problem which we have to solve. If we could attract one single major industry employing 5,000, 6,000 or 10,000—and this is commonplace all over the rest of the world; there are firms which employ many times 10,000 in Britain, Germany and France—we would make a big dent in our unemployment problem. We are not geared to that. We would not have the workforce trained or available, I am told. This is an extraordinary situation. It is an extraordinary and depressing fact.

The IDA have been very successful within the economic area in which they operate but, if an industrialist said he was thinking of investing in an industry which would provide 5,000 jobs, they would have to say we could not cope with it. That is disgraceful and it needs urgent attention. I spoke earlier about the need for everybody —political parties, unions, employers, people, individuals—to help in creating jobs to help solve the chronic problem which faces us.

Over the years we have had Buy Irish campaigns. At the moment we have the quality Irish campaign. We have something of a Sell Irish campaign. I want to plead with the Irish people to buy Irish wherever possible, not just to be patriotic and not just out of some sense of nationalism, but because of economic good sense. I try to do this myself in the shops but, if you ask whether an article is Irish, you are looked at. Something major has to be done about selling Irish products and getting manufacturers, retailers and wholesalers to think in terms of selling Irish goods. We should not expect our people to buy inferior quality goods or goods that are dearer than imported goods. We must make Irish goods attractive and competitive. I cannot emphasise too strongly to everyone, especially those families who are affected by unemployment, to think about Irish goods and to buy Irish goods, and retailers should stock and try to sell more Irish goods. If this is done it will help the unemployment problem.

One of the problems of a bad economic situation, like the recent recession, is that countries are tempted to defend themselves by using protective measures. Such action has almost become impossible for us since we became a member of the EEC, We cannot contemplate import controls because they would be detrimental to the other member states. We do have the problem of goods being dumped here from countries such as Portugal, Korea and so on. These goods are being sold cheaply and, admittedly, the consumer is the beneficiary; but these goods are made by cheap labour and this can affect our employment. I would ask the Minister to raise this matter with the EEC to see if anything further can be done to reduce the level of dumping of cheap goods.

In relation to the EEC, I can only express disappointment——

I do not think there is anything in the Estimate about the EEC.

There are many references in the Estimate to the EEC.

It is not the appropriate Estimate under which to discuss it.

Unemployment was discussed at a recent meeting of the European Council in Copenhagen. The Standing Committee on Employment and the Social Affairs Committee have had many discussions on unemployment but there has been very little direct action. This is most disappointing because unemployment is not just an Irish problem. The problem is acute here and chronic elsewhere in the EEC. In proportion to normal levels, it is higher elsewhere than it is here. I expect more action from the EEC in encouraging job creation.

Each day I become more disillusioned with the EEC. We are told that we are net beneficiaries, which means that we contribute less from our budget than the EEC contribute from theirs. Presumably we are all in the EEC to be net beneficiaries. The Germans are making millions out of it as are the Dutch and the French, but they are not coming across with the "readies" in sufficient quantities to countries like ours that have contributed in no small way towards making the EEC an attractive proposition for them. I am very critical of the lack of any meaningful policy or action from the EEC. There has been a great deal of talk but very little action.

Only a fool would think that there is no connection between industrial relations and unemployment. As the Minister said, since the arrival of national pay agreements there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of man-days lost through disputes. Up to 1970 the figures was always at least 1 million man-days lost per year. After that the figure reduced, except during the year of the bank strike, when there were 770,000 man-days lost, 460,000 of which were attributed to the bank strike. So we had 300,000 man-days lost, less than one-third of the previous normal rate, if you can apply that word to industrial relations. Last year there was slightly over 400,000 man-days lost. In the first four months of this year there were 200,000 man-days lost. If that trend continues—and I hope it does not—we will lose 600,000 man-days this year. Recent upheavals, including the Posts and Telegraphs dispute and the Aer Lingus dispute, have done enormous damage in their own way. In the best of times these disputes would be madness but in the present situation of chronic unemployment they are total lunacy.

Public opinion often blames the unions for disputes and that is unfair. I have the highest regard for the role which ICTU have played in industrial relations in the past 16 years. No other lobby has shown such a sense of responsibility and such practical patriotism as congress. That should be recognised.

Compare the role of congress with that of, say, the IMA or IFA, or the veterinary profession who were in dispute for a long time. The leaders of congress benefit nothing by their endeavours. They are grossly overworked and underpaid and they strive all the time for a better society, better working conditions and so forth. There is no doubt that they want for the country full employment and economic prosperity because they know that that is the context in which the workers will most benefit. That is not so with other sections whose interests are mainly and directly financial and with whom the national interest does not come into consideration at all, or if it does it is only to a very small extent. Congress almost alone of the important national bodies play a patriotic and responsible role.

There are too many unions within the congress, according to conventional wisdom. There are 91 unions, not all of them in the congress. I do not agree with very much of what the Bishop of Limerick says, but he said recently at the opening session of the annual general meeting of the Irish Union of Distributive Workers and Clerks that he did not share the conviction of the need for fewer unions and more big unions. In this I consider he has a point. Before there can be any real amalgamation or before we can arrive at a situation where we have a few unions, as in other countries, we will have to take measures to protect the rights of minorities and individuals within trade unions; otherwise we are going to have break-aways all the time. We are going to have NBUs again and again, they are going to be outside the congress and the situation will become worse, not better. At one time I was shop steward for a minority within a bigger group and I know that when a minority's apparent rights are voted away by a majority it is very tempting to break away and form your own union; sometimes that is justified. This is a problem within unions which will prevent the multitude of small unions from joining the bigger ones until the rights of minorities and individuals within unions are protected. I hope the Commission on Industrial Relations will give that question their very thorough consideration. I would prefer to see the number of unions being maintained rather than have amalgamations and subsequent break-aways, as that would be absolutely disastrous. A number of the unions outside the congress have broken away from their normal union and the congress.

The Minister in his speech mentioned the problem of unions outside the congress. It is a problem because the congress have very well-designed and effective machinery to deal with questions of inter-union disputes, level of service within unions and so forth. They can deal with questions of poaching, and they do this very effectively between unions within the congress. In the disaster that happened at Ferenka there was a union within the congress and a union without congress, and it was very hard to get talks going. I hope the lesson of Ferenka has not been lost. Some solution has to be found for this question of unions outside the congress who are not amenable to normal trade union relations. Most of those unions have good working day-to-day relationships with the congress, but I appeal to those unions and to the congress to try to come to an arrangement whereby all unions can be within the congress. I hope with the Minister that something can be resolved in this area before long.

I come now to the question of disputes. The Minister was able to tell the House that last year about 60-odd per cent of man-days lost were lost through unofficial disputes. That figure represents approximately 265,000 out of 440,000. That is scandalous. Much of that can be credited to Ferenka because the action there at times was official and at times unofficial. I am opposed to unofficial disputes and so are the unions. Such disputes are normally less amenable to solutions than are official disputes. The Trade Disputes Act of 1906 has been referred to as a pickets' charter. Certainly the protection afforded for workers generally by the 1906 Act is very desirable and a good thing, but the question of unofficial disputes must be tackled with courage. This is one of the few areas where the Minister for Labour could proceed with a certain amount of safety from a political or union point of view.

The present vice-president of the congress gave a most excellent address to the Economic Conference of the CII last February. He said that trade union leaders act because the environment is hostile, and they detect a hostile environment. If you are working under extreme pressure, as nearly all of them are, and at the same time feel that everybody is laying the blame for the trouble on you, you are going to withdraw into your bunker and feel a little bit under siege and you will not react as you might in other circumstances. Public opinion has a good deal to do with this. Once a strike is called the unions are blamed. Progress is impeded by the them-and-us situation which results in a hostile environment in which there is a continuing cold war so that every issue becomes the subject of protracted negotiations. The Industrial Relations Commission are a case in point.

Although the setting up of that commission was announced many months ago they have not met yet. There has been foot-dragging by all sides in that regard. It has taken at least eight months to set up the commission, but I am glad to note that the Minister has set the date for the first meeting at 30 May. I trust that the delay that has occurred in this case is not indicative of the attitude to be adopted by the commission, that it is not indicative of the length of time the commission will take to report, having regard to the many areas that need to be reviewed urgently. Such a situation would not be good enough in the context of the hostile environment that is perceived by trade union leadership.

If I were Minister I would propose that the valuable national service given by leaders of the trade unions be recognised and that the question of paying deputies at union headquarters in proportion to the service provided by the leaders would be considered. I am making this suggestion having regard to the workload that builds up while these people are involved in national work. The same band of the top 30 or 40 leaders are involved in congress, in trade union leadership and in such bodies as the NESC, the Employer-Labour Conference, the Irish Productivity Centre and AnCO. While all these extra activities are essential they add to the pressure on those men and anybody working under pressure is not in the best circumstances in terms of reaction.

I do not know of any Irish worker who wishes to be on strike. Irish workers are not anarchists, so we must ask where the problem lies. Very often the reason for disputes rests with management when management is bad. Most Irish companies do not have strikes because their management is good but in the case of companies in which there are strikes, especially where there are recurring strike situations, there must be a question mark in relation to management. I suggest to the employers' associations that the bad employers be brought to heel. Very often in cases where there are illdefined functions for workers or where workers are weakly organised management exploit the situation so that the workers are forced to take a militant stand. This is true in particular of the white collar area. Management have a big part to play in avoiding strikes. I should like the commission to consider also the question of setting out well-defined personnel functions in firms. Therefore, this commission will have a lot of work to do. I could say more about that but my time has expired. However, I shall have more to say on this subject generally during the weekend.

The circus is on.

The Labour Court has rendered enormous service but it needs changing. It has been developed piecemeal, having had added to it the function of appeals court for the rights commissioners, and of the employment equality agency. In its present form the Labour Court may be approaching the end of its usefulness. Therefore there is need to consider the question of a comprehensive industrial judiciary so that there will be created an environment in which no sane worker would consider it necessary to go on strike because of the availability of machinery of sufficient independence and scope to meet the needs of the worker. Such a judiciary could make a big contribution to reducing our industrial relations problems.

I trust that the commission will produce as soon as possible an interim report on the Labour Court and that they will act quickly, too, in bringing in reports in other areas.

Despite the anti-discrimination pay legislation and the equality in employment legislation, the situation remains that on average women earn 61 per cent of what men earn. This is an intolerable situation. Obviously much remains to be done in that area.

Listening to the Minister's speech it was obvious that in the past 12 months the viability and strength of the Department of Labour has been weakened and downgraded. I am at a loss to assess the reason for this, but one must ask whether it can be attributed to the inability of the Minister to cope with the serious problem of unemployment or whether it is due to the introduction or, perhaps I should say, the intrusion of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development.

This is, so to speak, the Minister for Labour's first year in division one in politics. One can compare him, then, for example, with Leicester City in Division 1 in English football. They are at the bottom of Division 1 after this season but their efforts to retain their position in Division 1 can be compared with the efforts of the Department of Labour to retain their position. Earlier in the season the Department were doing very well. They made many promises and there were many statements from the Minister indicating genuine concern with the unemployment situation and promising that the problem would be reduced considerably within 12 months. By midseason the Minister's defence let him down and in my area alone there was a loss of 1,500 jobs. Towards the end of the season the Minister's Department and other Departments also were involved in protracted serious industrial disputes involving semi-State bodies. These disputes caused considerable disruption to our economy. In that context there was not a very good display from the Minister in his first season in first division politics.

Before proceeding to indicate my attitude to and my summing up of the Department's activities in the past 12 months, I should like to refer in particular to several sections of the Minister's speech. First, he indicated that the Government had allocated £4 million for the implementation of the environmental improvements scheme programme and that the Minister for the Environment has advised local authorities of their allocations. He stated further that projects are already planned and in many cases under way in all local authority areas. Perhaps he is not aware of the fact that the situation is not as happy as he thinks it is. There is a long drawn out trade dispute involving county managers and the engineers' association throughout the country.

In some countries. The Deputy should find out the facts.

In my area there is a grave danger that these programmes will not be carried out this year.

The Deputy should not judge the standards of the rest of the country by those of Tipperary.

I listened intently to the Minister's speech and I did not interrupt. Perhaps he will allow me to continue.

The Deputy should be factual.

The environmental programme for job creation is not a fact in North Tipperary.

We will use it willingly in Cork.

The Minister will appreciate my concern and will, perhaps, allow me to continue.

Deputy Ryan is in possession.

The Minister referred to the redundancy position. I am not now talking about North Tipperary. In a discussion two months ago in the House on the employment plan for the country I made a plea to the Minister on the basis that redundancy payments were out of date and not related to the pay of workers in industry in 1978. I stressed the urgency of updating the payments and the Minister promised that he would have them updated without delay. I note that it is his intention to have the changes operative from April 1979. This is his regard for the urgency of this matter.

In my constituency there is a multinational mining concern which has been in operation for the past ten years and has made a profit in the region of £20 million from our natural resources in North Tipperary. Redundancy notices have now been issued to 60 workers. In the present situation each of these men, despite his contribution to the massive profit of the company, will be given compensation of approximately £500. Involved in this matter is the question of 16 apprentices who are among those to be let go. I have already been in touch with the Minister about this. Many of these apprentices are within months of completing their apprenticeship. It is a matter of grave concern to me that the mining company show such little regard for these young men because I know the difficulty they will have in being placed elsewhere. This unconcerned and unforgivable attitude on the part of this multinational company cannot be tolerated by the Minister or by the Government. This company have benefited greatly from our natural resources and they have such little regard for the workforce that they are adamant that these 16 boys must go. I would ask the Minister to look into this matter as soon as possible with a view to ensuring that these 16 boys are allowed to complete their apprenticeship in the mining company in my area.

The Minister also referred to the activities of AnCO and to the Government's serious commitment to industrial training. The phrase "industrial training" requires examination. In effect, what we are referring to is the provision not only of manual skills but the associated theoretical knowledge necessary to produce a skilled workforce capable of adapting to a rapidly changing technological environment. To concentrate merely on the manual skill content and to ignore the underlying technology means that when a change in technology occurs the worker must be taken back to a training centre to learn a new set of rules instead of being able to adapt himself to a changing technology, which he could do if he had been provided with a theoretical input based on the scientific principles underlying the process he was expected to perform. In today's world it is as necessary to educate the worker in the technology underlying his field of operation as it is to train him in the associated manual skills.

The problem is that AnCO are not in a position to do this. In a report published in the Irish Independent on 3 May this year the director general of AnCO said:

Apprentices trained in AnCO centres are given strictly practical training under working conditions. The necessary theoretical instruction is given not by AnCO but by technical schools and colleges.

In other words, AnCO are geared to provide manual skills. It is not their function to involve themselves in the provision of theoretical instruction; this is the preserve of the vocational schools and colleges. Yet I have pointed to the fact that the modern industrial worker working on his own initiative frequently requires as substantial a theoretical input as manual skill training. Such a situation can be brought about only by the establishment of a permanent liaison structure whose function would be to co-ordinate and make provision for the total educational and training needs of the worker.

For the Minister to state that there has been some controversy recently about arrangements for the release of AnCO first-year apprentices into the educational system greatly underestimates the situation. In the first place, the controversy was not confined to the release of first-year apprentices but to the total educational release during the apprenticeship period. Following the decisions of the council of AnCO an apprenticeship curriculum advisory committee, composed of employer, trade union and educational interests, was established and they held their first meeting on 31 August 1976. The next day, 1 September, the new apprenticeship scheme was introduced, a rather strange decision in view of the fact that common sense indicated that it would be at least 18 months before any new curriculum could be prepared.

In the interim period between the introduction of the new apprenticeship scheme and the finalisation of the recommendation of the curriculum advisory committee, the senior staff of AnCO had a free hand. Their curtailment of educational release and their unwillingness to negotiate with interested parties brought about this so-called controversy to which the Minister referred. One can only conclude that the senior staff of AnCO were preoccupied with establishing total control over the apprenticeship system and expanding their own involvement to the extent that the educational requirements, which are a dominant factor of some trades, were practically ignored. They were ignored to such an extent that the Teachers' Union of Ireland resolved at their congress at Easter to take industrial action, with 300 or 400 apprentices engaged in a mass picket of the AnCO premises. Widespread adverse comments emanated from both employer and trade union organisations.

For the Minister to state that "discussions in the matter have been taking place with the Department of Education and I am hopeful of finding a solution" clearly indicts him for not understanding the intention of the Council of AnCO when they established the apprenticeship curriculum advisory committee. It is the function of that committee to produce relevant content both practical and theoretical and on the basis of that content would emerge the necessary and desirable mix of educational release and training centre involvement. This is the accepted scientific approach to curriculum development. For the Minister to state that he hopes discussions between his Department and the Department of Education will solve the controversy merely means that a deal will be, or has been, done among officials that may bear no relationship to the training and educational requirements of a particular trade. I would ask the Minister to urgently investigate what is happening in AnCO.

It is a laudable activity for any country to invest in the training of its workforce. Modern technology, even at the so-called semi-skilled level, requires more than a manual input and I ask the Minister to give consideration to the establishment of a liaison structure between AnCO and Education so that the real skilled needs of modern industry can be met.

In his speech the Minister made an emphatic remark: "In some cases there has been a breakdown in trade union discipline." I may be wrong but I take it that that inference is in connection with the telecommunications strike which has only recently been resolved. One can appreciate the workers' attitude to that long drawn out strike. The basis for the dispute was the long delay, six years, in resolving the hard-headed attitude of some of the senior civil servants in the Department of a productivity agreement. One can appreciate the workers' impatience and why at times there may have seemed to be some breakaway in the union. As Deputy Mitchell said, workers are not inclined to strike unless they are forced to do so. I believe that the strike was inevitable because of the long delay and the inactivity of the senior officials in the Department. That productivity deal has to be ironed out now but that could have been done years ago if the matter had been discussed by both sides. Unfortunately, that was not the case and I hope a lesson has been learned.

The Minister also said "As I have said many times we have far too many unions for our relatively small workforce". I would like people in high places to make up their minds. People have been speaking with forked tongues over the last 12 months. One time you hear that a big union is not geared to look after the interests of the different trades within that organisation. Others say a small union is suitable for such an industry. When you are speaking of an industry with 1,500 men there can be difficulties working with one union. This is a matter of grave concern to the trade union movement and they are very anxious to resolve this very important problem. If there are too many unions or if a union is too big to deal with the needs of our workforce it is a matter to be decided by people who are much more knowledgeable than I am. I am concerned about this because I hear so many different versions and the ordinary working man is anxious to know what the powers-that-be think of this problem.

In my opinion the bulk of the increase in this Estimate is taken up with the employment incentive scheme, which includes youth employment schemes, and by increases in the grantin-aid to AnCO. Of the net increase of just over £9 million in the Estimate, just over £8 million has been allocated to the employment incentive scheme and the balance to AnCO. The 1978 Estimate for the employment incentive scheme is increased from £0.8 million to £7 million and the premium payable for school leavers has been increased from £10 to £14. As the Minister pointed out, the scope of the scheme, which has a premium of £20 per week, has been extended to hotels, the catering industry and the services sector generally, including banks, insurance companies, and to the building and construction sector on a trial basis.

It is interesting to note that when the Minister is talking at seminars for employers he is very critical about the uptake of this scheme by employers, but when he is talking at youth seminars he says the scheme will provide thousands of jobs. On 17 January he said:

Amongst the many Government incentives to industry, the Employment Incentive Scheme is of particular interest to me. The takeup under the Scheme has been disappointing, illustrating, in a concrete way, the disturbing relationship in the recent past-but hopefully not the future—between economic growth and employment creation. In short, the targets for the numbers expected to benefit from the Employment Incentive Scheme have proved unrealistically high, when account was taken of the general level of demand and existing unused capacity in industry.

The first sentence of the next paragraph was underlined.

In the present climate and with the high unemployment rate, I believe, however, that employment incentives can be significant in ensuring that the recovery in demand is translated quickly into more employment. Against this background and taking account of the participants at this function, I would like to outline the main features of the Employment Incentive Scheme.

One could relate that and compare it to what was written in yesterday's Irish Press under the heading “Job Grant Rethink”. If I had been involved my subheading would have been “Abject Failure”. The article read:

As the Government yesterday began a study of the draft Green Paper on economic development prepared by the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, Mr. O'Donoghue, the Minister said last night that the employment premium scheme . . . had proved a disappointment in helping solve unemployment.

Mr. O'Donoghue also warned that those at work would have to take reduced wage increases in the next few years if unemployment was to be tackled satisfactorily.

That paragraph will be noted and talked about by many.

Addressing a meeting in Trinity College, Dublin, Mr. O'Donoghue said the premium scheme had been a disappointment, despite the fact that there had been a remarkable growth in our industrial output since the plan was introduced some two years ago.

The Government, he said, had decided that the scheme was grossly inadequate as an answer to unemployment. "We realise we have got to do a lot more in the future".

On the same page there was a heading "Big Exports Trade Boost" which stated:

A powerful trading performance by Irish exports in April produced exports of just under £240 million for the month and narrowed our trade gap to £48 million, the lowest figure so far this year and a massive improvement on a year ago.

Taken together with recent figures showing a strong rise in industry's output, the export figures suggest a big economic upsurge this year.

Surely this is a crazy situation? We are only half way through this year and it is quite apparent that this tremendous figure suggests that 1978 will result in a colossal economic upsurge and yet, in spite of the tax concessions to industry, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, Deputy O'Donoghue, blandly admits that the employment premium scheme is a complete failure and that a lot more would have to be done by the Government to resolve the unemployment crisis, which, unless more radical steps are taken, will be scourging our youth for many years.

Thus, once again it has been proven that the private sector is concerned only with the profit motive. I must recommend to the Minister and the Government ICTU's strong case for the establishment of a national development board. This ministerial admission of failure must suggest that the solution to this serious unemployment problem facing our country rests now with radical new industrial thinking and concepts. The Irish economy is booming, and last year we had the highest growth rate in the EEC. This year it is expected that we will also have the highest rate, 7 per cent as compared with the EEC average of 3 or 4 per cent. I might add that the Central Bank recently doubted the Government's figures and stated that our increase will only be in the nature of 3½ per cent. In spite of this growth rate, and the substantial increase in exports, private enterprise is now saying that it cannot and will not produce the required number of jobs because it is afraid of being made the whipping boy for our unemployment problems.

This brings me back to an important matter, something that the Fianna Fáil manifesto last year clearly spelled out, that it is now imperative that the Government must expand the commercial semi-State bodies such as Comhlucht Siúicre Éireann Teoranta, Erin Foods and Bord na Móna, which are based on agriculture and its by-products. A clear commitment to this was given in the Fianna Fáil manifesto. That document stated:

. . . agriculture can and should provide the main thrust for the recovery of the national economy.

The volume of farm output must be raised and everything we produce must be processed and packaged through to the consumption stage.

That commitment of last year compares very unfavourably with the Government's attitude to the closure of the potato processing plant in Tuam in the first year that Erin Foods showed a profit.

I should now like to deal with the Employment Action Team which was christened last year, "Heffo's Army". The Employment Action Team, announced by the Minister as the saviour of our youth, put forward five schemes to the Government in December 1977. Four of those were announced by the Government in the budget. What has happened to this action team in the last six months? Has it folded up? Has it put forward any more new schemes? Does the Minister intend to wrap it up? The silence from the action team is deafening and I wonder if the Minister could enlighten us on this matter. If we are not to regard this as a cynical exercise then the Minister should tell our youth what the action team has been doing for the past six months and where its future lies. I must ask if it has thrown in the towel.

In relation to the work experience scheme the Minister for Finance in the course of his budget speech stated:

The Government regard youth employment as a critical and priority issue. The 1975 EEC labour force sample survey showed that almost 50 per cent of the total population is under 25. Unemployment in this age group in 1975 constituted almost 44 per cent of total unemployment even though the labour force under 25 years of age represented only 30 per cent of the total.

The Minister stated that the special employment schemes targeted specifically at young people would generate 5,000 jobs. Of those special youth jobs almost 5,000 were to be provided by the works experience scheme. However, it must be emphasised that they were only short-term jobs and this year £600,000 is being provided for this scheme.

Will the Minister indicate what has happened to the work experience team which was to provide the bulk of those jobs? Is it in operation? How many jobs have been created? I am aware, as is the Minister, that not one job was created under this scheme which was announced five months ago. Will this scheme which relies on private enterprise go the same way as the employment incentive scheme?

I should now like to deal with manpower policy, manpower services and career information. I note that the Estimate provides for only £2,000 for career information, the same figure as last year. In the course of his speech to Westport Junior Chamber in Westport in September 1977 the Minister stated that the decision of career choice was so important for fulfilment in adulthood that the preparation of our youth to make it wisely should approch perfection. The Minister is now renaging on this statement by downgrading the careers information section of his Department. If the Minister considered that career information was so important surely he would have allocated more than £2,000.

Manpower policy here has mainly reacted to policies of job creation formulated elsewhere. Too often it has been used to deal with the consequences of employment policies formulated and implemented without either adequate manpower information or sufficient examination of their manpower implications. I should like the Minister to give his reaction to the OECD report in Manpower Policy in in Ireland and the NESC's comments on that report. It is obvious that since the establishment of the Department of Economic Planning and Development the role of the Department of Labour is being downgraded. The number of placement officers should be expanded immediately. The present manpower information sources and data here is seriously inadequate. Many other services are urgently needed to achieve the results referred to in that report. We must have an efficient data collection system and a research unit and they should work within the Department of Labour. The Government's White Paper on National Development states that the manpower advisory committee to facilitate consultation with trade unions and employers will be reviewed at an early date. The White Paper was published in January 1978 but to date we do not have a manpower advisory committee.

I should now like to deal with the legislative programme of the Department of Labour. The Department have an important role to play in relation to protective legislation in providing for minimum legal rights and protection for workers. It is a disgrace that the Minister has not announced a legislative programme for his Department. For example, with regard to the Holidays (Employees) Act, 1973, the Minister should amend it to provide for four weeks' holidays. He should also amend the Act dealing with conditions of employment to provide for a 40-hour week.

To keep the record straight I should like to state that legislation should not be discussed on an Estimate. However, as the Minister discussed this extensively I will allow the Deputy to continue, but I do not wish to establish a precedent.

It was the Minister who established the precedent.

I am afraid he did.

The amendments I have suggested are needed to implement the EEC recommendation on a 40-hour week and a four weeks' holidays, a recommendation which should be implemented by the end of 1978.

The Safety in Industry Bill, 1978, which was introduced some weeks ago, is of great importance to the workers. A report issued by the industrial inspectorate recently in relation to 1977 indicates that 26 workers were killed at work. This report should be of grave concern to the Minister, the workers and the unions. It is an indictment of our safety record. The report also indicated that there were no industrial diseases in that year. The Minister should look at the figures for claims in the Department of Social Welfare, which proves that that statement is not correct. There are only 47 industrial inspectors and that number needs to be increased substantially. It is ludicrous that most of these inspectors are engineers. There should be a proper employment, medical advisory service.

For all these reasons the Minister should withdraw this Bill or make many radical changes in it. Agricultural workers have not been included under this Bill. The Minister mentioned that a Bill will shortly be introduced to cover the oil exploration employees working off our coasts. Surely the agricultural community, who are contributing so much to our economy, should be safeguarded under this Bill. Because of the use of modern technology and machinery on farms people in agriculture are as prone to accident as industrial workers. They can also catch diseases from the new fertilisers being used. In The Irish Times yesterday there was a very good article by an agricultural correspondent which suggested that there is a definite need for safety regulations for the agricultural community. I endorse that view. Safety regulations are already in operation in Northern Ireland and in England and surely the agricultural workforce we are so proud of are entitled to the same protection as other workers.

I note also from the recent industrial inspectorate report that 559 premises, including supermarkets, large stores, hotels and licensed premises, were visited in relation to the Protection of Young Persons (Employment) Act. The report did not say how these people were complying with the Act which protects people under 18 in their hours of work and forbids the employment of children. The Act is being blatantly flouted. Surely the Minister can indicate the number of employers who have been flouting this Act. This is an important factor because otherwise the Act is just a window-dressing operation.

The Department of Labour must be to the forefront in the campaign to combat discrimination against women. The previous Government introduced the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974, the Employment Equality Act, 1977, and established the Employment Equality Agency. To date there has been no action from the present Minister in this field. It appears that the Minister's only action was to deliver a speech at the inaugural meeting of the Employment Equality Agency on Tuesday 4 October 1977 and a speech to a seminar on careers for women in the RDS.

In his address to the Agency the Minister said that legislation must be backed up by an educational or promotional programme aimed at changing the traditional attitudes and that this was where the Employment Equality Agency had a major role to play. Having charged the agency with that important task the Minister gave them a miserable £80,000 to carry out their duties. This means that the agency cannot rent their own premises, cannot employ enough staff, cannot engage in research which is vitally needed and cannot involve themselves in the educational programme needed to break down the prejudiced attitudes to women which still exist.

To maintain a reasonable level of staffing 60 per cent to 70 per cent of the agency's allocation must be taken up with salaries. That means that only about £20,000 to £25,000 is left for the enormous task of eliminating discriminations, promoting equality of opportunity, the investigation of companies and aiding individuals with equal pay claims. What sort of research can the agency do on such a miserable budget? I can only conclude from the inadequate budget allocated, from the Minister's lack of interest and his total inactivity in the promotion of equality for women, that the Minister and the Government are not committeed to the elimination of discrimination against women. This is just another example of the Fianna Fáil election promises changing to hypocritical noises.

Statistics shows that despite equal pay legislation the average industrial wage for women amount to about 60 per cent of their male counterparts. One of the greatest criticisms to date has been the long delay in processing claims for equal pay by the equality officers and the Labour Court. There have been delays of up to six months in some cases and at the moment there is a backlog of 55 to 60 cases which have to be heard. These delays are not the fault of the equality officers or the Labour Court. There are not enough equality officers and the Labour Court is understaffed. I know that another equality officer has been appointed but that is not enough.

Under the terms of the EEC Directive on Equal Pay the Government must send a progress report on the implementation of the directive by February 1978 to the EEC Commission. The Minister should let us have this progress report on equal pay. It is a vitally important report which should be widely published and made available to the general public. This last question is a matter of grave importance and the Minister should answer it completely when replying to the debate. If we are keeping in line with the EEC Directive we should be seen to be keeping in line with it. From the information I have I feel that the lack of information available is due to the fact that our standards are not in keeping with the EEC standards.

Debate adjourned.
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