asked the Taoiseach the progress, if any, that has been made, arising from recent meetings between members of the Irish and British Governments, towards securing a declaration of intent by the British to withdraw from Ireland.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Unity.
11.
My views on the desirability of the British Government's declaring their interest in the unity of Ireland by agreement, in independence and in a harmonious relationship between the two islands, are well known and established. I believe that a British declaration on those lines would remove a major obstacle on the road to peace and help to bring about reconciliation between all the people living on this island.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs and I have availed of the occasions of our meetings with members of the British Government to emphasise this point of view and the difference between our respective Governments on the issue has been clearly and frankly acknowledged.
Without taking from the rights of the majority in Northern Ireland we would hope to persuade the British Government of the merits of the policy which we have put forward. We will, I can assure the House, continue to pursue our objective of encouraging the evolution, in the long term, of political structures which will embrace the whole of Ireland. In the short term we will continue to impress upon the British Government the need to seek a way out of the political stalemate which currently exists in Northern Ireland.
I can appreciate that what the Taoiseach has said is a desirable proposition but I am asking him specifically whether he regards the term "declaration of intention to withdraw", which we have heard many times in the last 12 months from most unlikely quarters, as being the Government's attitude and whether he has indicated to the British Government the Government's desire that they would make such a declaration?
I have indicated to the Deputy in the first paragraph of my reply what we have indicated to the British Government. That is exactly our position and it will remain our position.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach whether his formulation of his position as being one of seeking from the British Government a declaration of support for Irish unity does not have the effect of devaluing the very declaration of support for Irish unity on the basis of agreement which was in the Sunningdale document? Does the Taoiseach not agree that there is a danger that in not pressing the British Government to live up to the Sunningdale commitment, by ignoring that declaration and seeking a basis which is not visibly different from that commitment, he is letting the British Government off the hook, if one can use such an expression in this context?
Very little remains of the Sunningdale Agreement, as the Deputy is aware. The only thing that remains is the law commission which was appointed by the two countries. I suggest we will have to proceed from there and try to get new moves, new action and a new initiative by the British Government along the lines I have been proposing.
Will the Taoiseach not agree that the declaration of support for Irish unity on the basis of the consensus at Sunningdale was a major step forward, unprecedented in the previous 60 years, that this has not been repudiated by the British Government, and that anything which implies that it does not exist or that it has been diminished is a disadvantage to the prospects of unity in this island?
I am not trying to diminish it at all. It is obvious that it is very difficult for us to get the British Government to take any initiative. I will not say since the fall of Sunningdale, rather the fall of the Northern Ireland Executive, but since that period it has been very difficult for us to get the British Government to make any move at all.
I do not dissent. Indeed we are in agreement on the difficulty, but the Taoiseach has not answered the point I made.
We are now getting into a debate on this matter.
Will the Taoiseach not agree that his statement is a lot of pious humbug? The Taoiseach says that the unity of Ireland can be attained only with the consent of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland, and the British Government say that they will leave Northern Ireland when the majority of the people in Northern Ireland tell them to go. Will the Taoiseach tell the House where is the difference between these two statements?
The difference is there for the Deputy to see. My answer stands on its own and I do not see why the Deputy should ask such a question.
That commitment was given by the British. Why is the Taoiseach trying to hoodwink the people of the South that his party are still demanding a declaration of intent by the British Government when that commitment is already there? Does he not agree that the unity of Ireland is not a matter for the British but for the Protestant people in the North and the Catholic people in the South? Does he not agree that his relationship with the ethnic groups in the North would be better served by talking to them first, and to the British Government afterwards?
I have already indicated my views of certain statutory instruments and other legislative matters and the effect these have on the Northern Unionists as far as the British are concerned.
Is it not true that when the Taoiseach was in Opposition he wanted an initiative from the then Government——
Where now is the Fianna Fáil policy? Will he agree now that the Unionists in the North are entitled to their political aspirations as we are entitled to our aspirations?
This has nothing to do with the subject matter of Question No. 11.
In order to clear the air, do the Government and the major Opposition party intend to say "yes" when I ask the Taoiseach whether the Government are now in favour of a declaration of intent to withdraw from this island by the British Government?
I have already answered the Deputy.
The Taoiseach has, but in such double language that I cannot understand it, and I do not think anybody else understands it either.
I could not match the Deputy in that respect.
I am afraid I am getting nowhere. I have asked the Taoiseach, and I allude to what Deputy Harte has said, whether the unity and the future of this country are for all of the people of all of this island to decide and not for decision by any minority in any part of the island.
Every part of this island is involved in this question.
It is for all of the people in all of Ireland to decide their destiny. Are they our aspirations?
Will the Taoiseach clarify his response to the last question by Deputy Blaney?
We cannot go back on it.
I have said that it is a matter for all of the people in the whole of Ireland. There is no need for further clarification of that unequivocal statement.
Does that mean it is not a question for agreement between the majority and the minority in Northern Ireland?
I have said it is a matter for all of the people of Ireland, which includes the majority and minority in Northern Ireland.
When the Taoiseach was replying to Deputy Blaney he left me with the impression that it would be a question for all of the people of the island, and there was an implication that it could be done by a referendum of the people of the whole island.
I wish to give notice that I intend to raise on the adjournment the subject matter of this question.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
What I said is most unequivocal. The ultimate destiny of this island is for all the people of the island.
That is different from what the Taoiseach said.
It is not a bit different.
We cannot have argument now. We have gone back on this. Question No. 12.
Let the Taoiseach state definitely what the Fianna Fáil position is in relation to the reunification of this country.
I have said it definitely time and time again. The Deputy is trying to gain political kudos out of this. He will not. I will not let him.
It would appear that the Taoiseach has shown political cowardice in the face of Deputy Blaney's question.
Write a letter to The Observer.
I want to say to the Deputy that I put the policy enshrined in my answer before the people in June 1977 and they endorsed it.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
(Interruptions.)
I have called Question No. 12. The House is quite disorderly.