asked the Minister for the Public Service if he will outline the steps to be taken to ensure that the maximum information is made available when needed on request on specific issues in view of the growing involvement of State Departments in national affairs.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Access to Information.
13.
In view of the facilities available from the Government Information Services and from the information units which exist in many of the larger Departments, it is not evident to me that any special further steps need to be taken towards meeting the objective mentioned by the Deputy. In the last analysis, it is a matter for each individual Minister to decide to what extent information should, when requested, be made available on specific issues.
As far as my own Department are concerned, I would be anxious that as much information as is reasonably possible be given in reply to inquiries about their activities.
This is a particularly important question because of the increasing encroachment of bureaucrats and State bureaucracy into our affairs and our objection to that. Would the Minister not agree that where there is an interdepartmental committee the head of the Department concerned is not the best person to decide whether the information should be made public or not in that he may have a vested interest in concealing the information? Would the Minister make it a general principle that either Members of the Oireachtas can have access to any interdepartmental reports they request or, alternatively, would he consider publishing a Green Paper on the whole question of freedom to information in the present altering circumstances?
It is possible that a Green Paper would be required and if such a request is made it will be considered. In reply to the Deputy's other points, I should like to state that section 4 of the Official Secrets Act lays down the procedure involved and that is what is applied.
Obviously, there are matters which cannot be published because of security but where this Act does not apply would the Minister accept that Members of the Oireachtas be given a right of access, through the Library here, to the information they request? I am sure the Minister accepts that such information would be handled responsibly. The suggestion I have put forward is intended to apply until the Green Paper is issued.
I do not accept that there is any cover on the information requested by Members or the public from Government Departments if the Official Secrets Act is not involved.
This is most unsatisfactory. Why are Members of the Oireachtas excluded from this right of access to such information which may be very important from the public point of view? A Minister may decide that he does not want the facts made public.
If the Deputy had been more specific in his question I would have been able to reply to him but he simply asked me to ensure that the maximum information be made available when needed. As far as my Department are concerned—this is a matter for each Minister—the information required is made available.
Do I take it that the principle is being accepted that a Deputy may request information in respect of inter-departmental or other committee reports where the Official Secrets Act is not involved and have a right of access to it? Is the Minister also saying that he would consider seriously the issuing of a Green Paper on the subject?
By and large that is the position but it is a matter for each Minister.
Does the Minister accept that under Fianna Fáil reports of harbour works and developments are deemed to be completely confidential and not available to Members? How can a report on such projects be deemed to be confidential?
Any contracts would be confidential.
In view of developments in the gathering of information and in view of the centralisation of local authority and central Government records on computers does the Minister agree that there is a need for new guidelines on access to information by public representatives and individuals? Is the Minister aware of developments in this regard elsewhere? Will the Minister undertake to issue guidelines or, at least, consider the matter?
If Deputies identified the need they speak of in vague terms such consultations and procedures can be looked at. However, I have not been given any specific type of information that is being denied to Deputies or members of the public.
I welcome the Minister's willingness to consider issuing a Green Paper on the matter and I should like to ask him if he feels from his experience to date—I did so from my experience in Government—that the Official Secrets Act is antiquated and absurd in many of its provisions and that there is an urgent need for revision of that Act?
That section was introduced in 1964.
It was left antiquated.
I introduced that Act in 1964.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Perhaps the views of the Minister for Health have changed since then.
It may be true that the Act was introduced as recently as 1964 but is it not the nub of the question that there has been an increase in State bureaucracy with the result that a new situation has arisen? That could be answered if the Minister told us that he would consider seriously issuing a Green Paper on the subject.
I do not see the need at present to change the procedures. The Government Information Services are available and most Government Departments have information services.
Not all.