I move:
That Deputy Bermingham be suspended from the service of the Dáil.
Suspension of Member.
(Interruptions.)
Question put and declared carried.
(Interruptions.)
The sitting is now suspended for a quarter of an hour.
Business suspended at 3.35 p.m. and resumed at 3.50 p.m.
May I ask you, Sir, on what authority Deputy Joe Bermingham has been physically denied access to this House at this time?
The Chair heard no call for a division.
Excuse me, Sir, there was.
There undoubtedly was a call for a division not only from these benches but from those benches.
If there was a call for a division the Chair did not hear it because of the disorder. But if the Deputy is asking for a division I will give him a division now.
No, Sir, what I am asking for now is an explanation from you as to why Deputy Bermingham was physically denied access to this House.
Because I had not heard a call for a division and I had declared the motion carried.
Well, the Fianna Fáil Members heard it.
But I take it, Sir, that you acknowledge the fact that Deputy Bermingham was illegally denied access to this House at this time?
No, I do not.
In what circumstances was he denied access?
On the basis that I had not heard a call for a division and I had declared the motion carried. But, as I said, if the Deputy wants a vote now I will grant the vote.
Do you accept now, Sir, that Deputy Bermingham is entitled to be in this House at this time and, in view of the instructions you gave that he be denied access, will you now withdraw those instructions and allow Deputy Bermingham access to this House?
Until such time as a division is taken.
Are you anticipating the result of that?
No, I am not. After the division he can either stay or must leave, one or the other.
Would the Chair immediately give instructions to have Deputy Bermingham admitted to the House, before any division is taken? I want to make this clear; Deputy Bermingham is entitled to be in this House from the time this House resumes.
Hear, hear.
On a point of order I am reading from Standing Order No. 52 which says:
...if the offence has been committed in Committee of the whole Dáil, the proceedings shall forthwith be suspended and the circumstances reported to the Dáil, and the Ceann Comhairle shall, thereupon, on motion being made, put the same question without amendment, adjournment or debate as if the offence had been committed in the Dáil itself.
I am taking that from one particular Standing Order.
On a point of order——
May I suggest that you cannot now call a division——
On a point of order, I am seriously concerned that proceedings of this House are continuing while a member of the House is forcibly being denied access to the House.
I have informed the Deputy that I will allow Deputy Bermingham to return to the House until such time as a division is taken.
Is that instruction being given? Deputy Bermingham is physically being denied access to the House now.
I am giving that instruction now.
A Ceann Comhairle, I should like to repeat my point of order——
Before the House proceeds Deputy Bermingham is entitled to be here.
I have——
And so is Deputy Coughlan.
Will the Chair ensure that the same instruction is given to allow him access as was given to deny him access?
I have given the instruction.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Coughlan will get in no matter what you do.
(Interruptions.)
At least democracy wins on that round here.
Standing Order No. 52 says that if the offence has been committed by such member——
Is this a point of order?
Yes, Sir, it is a pure point of order.
It is pure, that is reassuring.
I am quoting from Standing Order No. 52 which says that if the offence has been committed by such member in the Dáil — of disregarding the authority of the Chair — the Ceann Chomhairle shall forthwith put the question on a motion being made with no amendment, adjournment or debate being allowed. I therefore submit that there cannot be a division on this issue because there has been an adjournment of the Dáil and Standing Orders specifically preclude such an adjournment taking place prior to the division.
(Cavan-Monaghan): That is a quare one.
I will put the question again: that Deputy Bermingham be suspended from the service of the House.
Could you answer my point of order? You have adjourned the House and under Standing Order No. 52 you have made it impossible to put the motion; it must be put with no amendment, adjournment or debate being allowed. The Chair has allowed an adjournment and, therefore, the question may not be put.
It was not an adjournment; it was a suspension of the sitting.
Could the Chair refer to the relevant Standing Order?
I am not going to discuss it. I do not propose to discuss my ruling.
There should be more respect for the Chair. In showing disrespect to the Chair we are showing disrespect to ourselves.
I will put the question again.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 63; Níl, 30.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Kit.
- Allen, Lorcan.
- Andrews, Niall.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Sylvester.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Browne, Seán.
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callanan, John.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Colley, George.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connolly, Gerard.
- Cowen, Bernard.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Farrell, Joe.
- Filgate, Eddie.
- Fitzgerald, Gene.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Dublin South- Central).
- Fitzsimons, James N.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Fox, Christopher. J.
- Gallagher, Dennis.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Gibbons, Jim.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Herbert, Michael.
- Hussey, Thomas.
- Kenneally, William.
- Killeen, Tim.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lemass, Eileen.
- Leonard, Tom.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lynch, Jack.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacSharry, Ray.
- Meaney, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Moore, Seán.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael.
- O'Connor, Timothy C.
- O'Donoghue, Martin.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Kennedy, Michael.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond.
- Power, Paddy.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Smith, Michael.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael J.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Begley, Michael.
- Bermingham, Joseph.
- Boland, John.
- Browne, Noel.
- Bruton, John.
- Burke, Joan.
- Cluskey, Frank.
- Collins, Edward.
- Corish, Brendan.
- D`Arcy, Michael J.
- Deasy, Martin A.
- Desmond, Barry.
- Desmond, Eileen.
- Enright, Thomas W.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
- Horgan, John.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kelly, John.
- Kenny, Enda.
- L'Estrange, Gerry.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- O'Brien, William.
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Toole, Paddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Ryan, John J.
- Tully, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Moore and B. Ahern; Níl, Deputies B. Desmond and Horgan.
Question declared carried.