asked the Minister for Industry and Energy his plans to supply natural gas to the food processing town of Mallow, County Cork.
Ceistenna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Natural Gas Supplies.
4.
As the Cork-Dublin pipeline has been successfully completed I now intend to move ahead as quickly as possible to consider the supply of gas to other population centres where this can be done on an economic basis. My first priority will be to look at centres with existing town gas industries since these should be in a better position to achieve the kind of rapid market expansion required to maximise sales in the premium market. If such developments are proceeded with the next logical step would be to consider expansion of the grid to centres, which although not having the advantage of an existing town gas industry, are close enough to the Cork-Dublin pipeline to justify connection. Mallow is among the centres which will be considered.
I would like to make it clear that before I will approve an allocation I will have to be satisfied that any project to extend the natural gas supply is economic and has acceptable prospects of commercial success.
It is urgent that a place like Mallow would have a supply of natural gas due to its food processing ability. It is one of the largest food processing towns in Munster and 100 million gallons of milk and 90,000 acres of sugar beet are processed there.
A question, Deputy.
Natural gas is the ideal fuel for the food processing industry due to its low cleaning content. Is the Minister aware of that? Instead of fiddling around with pipes all over the place, will he concentrate his work on food processing, an industry which is so much neglected and under such stress and strain? If we are to survive as a food processing nation we must have a source of cheap fuel available.
While I appreciate the Deputy's concern for Mallow and for the food processing industry, it would be proper of me to say that I have met a deputation from ICOS to discuss the pricing of natural gas. In the context of Mallow, in the logical evolution of a gas grid Mallow would come at, say, phase 3 of that development.
Is the Minister prepared to make the gas available to the food processing industry at the same price as to NET and the ESB? Will he consider if it is feasible to make it available at Mallow?
That is a separate question.
Ceist Uimhir 5.
We must have the pricing on a level and the food processing industry is as important as the electricity supply because it is a wastage to have natural gas——
I dislike intensely to appear to be arguing with the same Deputies, but Deputies must confine themselves to asking questions. It is not in order to make points at Question Time.
The Minister of State has just said that the price at which natural gas will be supplied in due course to the food processing industry in Mallow is a separate question. I submit to you, Sir, that surely the question deals with his plans to supply natural gas to the food processing town of Mallow. Surely that wording includes the price at which the gas will be supplied.
The Leader of the Opposition will appreciate that the Chair has no control over how these questions are answered but he would encourage Ministers not to make long statements in answer to questions.
Is the Minister of State aware of its potential for the food processing industry because of the clean type of fuel it is and no storage is involved? Will he make it available to the industry at the same price as coal rather than talk about the price of black oil?
Yes, I am aware of the high quality of natural gas as an energy source. The policy of my Department will be to relate the price of natural gas to heavy fuel oil prices rather than to coal prices, and industries which are interested in getting a supply of natural gas should consider the pricing of natural gas in that context which I have just mentioned.
Has the Minister of State yet made a decision on policy of gas allocation to the co-operative industry in the south?
No decision needs to be made by me except in the context of the overall development of a natural gas grid. It would be up to any major food industry to come along with an application to my Department for consideration.
Is the Minister of State aware that the applications are already in his Department? I understood him to say that he had already met representatives from down there. That would indicate to me that he has applications but he has not decided on them.
We are having a debate. It is obviously not a suitable topic to deal with on a question.
Could I make a point? It is difficult for the Opposition to find a suitable form for discussing questions. I have had questions down here which have been disallowed on policies relating to Ministers.
Is the Deputy on a point of order?
On a point of order, where is the forum to find out what a Minister's policy is in relation to his Department if not at Question Time?
The Chair can only rule on these matters as they come up and the Chair is ruling now that a long shifting of policy debate is not in order at Question Time. The Chair can only refer the Deputy to the Book of Standing Orders.
If a question arises that a Deputy needs to elicit information on a policy matter relating to the direct responsibility of the Minister concerned, surely Question Time is the forum for such a question?
The Deputy knows perfectly well that what we have been having here recently is an exchange of views at Question Time, which is not in order. Deputies want to make a point or to elaborate and that is not in order at Question Time. Questions should be short and concise and in the form of questions.
I have a question for the Minister——
There are preambles to far too many questions here. Question No. 5.
I am asking the Chair for a direction, for assistance in how to elicit information from the Minister opposite if the Chair will not allow it at Question Time.
It is not my business to find fora. It is my business to interpret and enforce Standing Orders.
It appears to be the Chair's business at this stage to protect Ministers because the Chair is ruling out questions ad nauseum.
The Deputy will withdraw that allegation.
I will withdraw it and would be only too delighted to visit the Ceann Comhairle in his office to point out that the Ceann Comhairle is acting against Opposition spokesmen who are trying to get information on policy matters — not related to the management of semi-State bodies.
The Deputy must withdraw the allegation.
I have already said that, if the Chair was listening.
Yes, but in withdrawing it, he repeated the allegation.
I did not. I said that I would——
The Deputy said that he would repeat it in the Ceann Comhairle's office.
I said that I would repeat the allegation in the Ceann Comhairle's office. Due to various circumstances, I have already withdrawn the allegation in the House.
The Chair must call on Deputy Reynolds to withdraw any imputation on the Chair.
For the second time.
Without qualification.
I would be delighted to meet the Chair in his office.
The Deputy would be very welcome in my office.
Could I ask a final supplementary question? Is the Minister prepared to put a time limit on the availability of gas to Mallow. Will it be three weeks, three months or six months?
I can assure the Deputy that it will be more than six months. First of all, we have to supply town centres with existing gas utilities. Only after that is done can we consider going further.
Does the Minister realise the wastage? Natural gas is very suitable for industry. It is not very suitable for generating electricity because there is a transmission loss. Would the Minister have a feasibility study introduced as to the best economic way of using this resource?
This is the final Supplementary.
My Department are very much aware of the best use of natural gas.
5.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if he will outline in detail his plans for the supply of natural gas to the following towns in south Tipperary: (a) Clonmel, (b) Carrick-on-Suir, (c) Cahir, (d) Tipperary, (e) Cashel and (f) Fethard.
As I have already indicated, the next stage in the development of the natural gas network will be to consider the extension of supply to provincial centres which have existing town gas industries, provided of course that it can be demonstrated that it is technically and economically viable to do so.
In the case of the towns mentioned, Clonmel alone has an existing town gas system. Both Bord Gáis Éireann and the Clonmel gas management have carried out engineering and economic studies to define the works necessary for a successful supply to and conversion and development of the Clonmel gas system. The latest engineering study of the Clonmel system was made available to my Department last week and discussions to clarify certain details will be held this week. Subject to satisfaction in these discussions, the way will be clear to have a decision taken by the Government on the proposal to link Clonmel with the Cork-Dublin pipeline. However, the general commercial and administrative arrangements for running the smaller town gas companies are not yet decided. The development of natural gas in provincial centres provides an opportunity for participation by the private sector. Where it is likely to prove economic, a joint venture of private interests, local and national, and public bodies, local and national, will be considered.
For the other towns mentioned, their prospects of developing a proposition to earn an allocation of natural gas clearly depend on the success which attends the plans to bring natural gas to centres which have town gas systems and the technical and economic considerations relevant in each case.
When will the supply of natural gas be made available to Clonmel? Clonmel has gas at present and a lot of work has been done in preparation for a natural gas supply. Could the Minister indicate when the town of Clonmel will have a supply of natural gas?
I cannot indicate that with great certainty. As stated in my reply, the engineering study of the Clonmel system was made available to my Department only last week and discussions are going on this week in relation to the report. It will be sometime yet but, it is hoped, within a year some decision may be taken.
Seeing that Clonmel is situated so close to the pipeline between Cork and Dublin, could the Minister use his good offices to ensure that Clonmel will have a supply of this gas at the earliest possible date?
I take what the Deputy has said. Clonmel is near the pipeline and would be an easier town to consider than other towns further away from the pipeline.
Could the Minister tell us how many other towns in the country have existing gas?
This question is confirmed to a number of main towns, Deputy. Clonmel is one of them. Uimhir 6.
6.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy the progress on plans to bring natural gas to Tralee and north Kerry; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
7.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy the proposals he has to extend the natural gas resource to the west of Ireland; if he is aware that the west of Ireland is seriously disadvantaged because of the lack of this resource; and the measures he proposes to take to minimise this disadvantage.
8.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if he will extend the national gas grid in order to make a supply of natural gas available to Galway city.
9.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if it is intended to extend the national gas pipe line in order to supply County Meath.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 9, inclusive, together.
The recent successful completion of the Cork-Dublin pipeline represents the first stage in the development of gas from the Kinsale field. Consideration will now be given to the extension of supplies to other premium market areas where this can be done efficiently and economically.
My next priority is to consider the extension of supply to provincial centres which have existing town gas industries, provided of course that it can be demonstrated that it is technically and economically viable to do so.
The extension of supply to other population centres such as Tralee, north Kerry, County Meath, Galway and the west of Ireland which do not have an existing supply of town gas may be examined in the longer term. It would not be realistic to assume a likelihood of supply for several years. I must emphasise that proximity to the main trunk pipelines will be a major factor in determining whether or not it would be economic to supply natural gas to a particular area.
As part of this staged development, I will also be examining the feasibility of extending supply to suitable industrial enterprises along the route of the main trunk pipelines.
It is now agreed that the south, east, and perhaps the north of Ireland will benefit substantially as far as bills for domestic and industrial use of natural gas are concerned, and that the west, according to the Minister, will not benefit from this national natural resource. Would the Minister agree that, consequently, the west is at a promotional disadvantage because of his decision?
We must be realistic about this matter. The two major population centres are Dublin and Cork and it is simply economical and, indeed, technically possible to bring a supply of natural gas to these major centres because they have existing gas utilities there. The logic of the development of a gas grid for the country must take into account the existence of such gas utilities. It may, in fact, be uneconomic and not feasible to bring natural gas as far west as I would like. It would also be dependent on future gas finds either in the south or off the west coast. This is something which is down the line. We must be realistic.
The Minister recognises that there is an imbalance in the situation as far as natural gas is concerned. Would he then be agreeable to recommending a preferential price structure for other sources of energy until such time as there is a find of natural gas off the west coast?
That is a different question.
Would the Minister consider that to be a reasonable request?
In fairness, this is a very complex issue. Would the Deputy be more specific in his wishes and put down a question in that regard. I will be happy to answer that.
That question must be taken. It appears in national advertisements that there will be considerable reductions in the price of gas to domestic and industrial users in these areas. Consequently, the people in one region of this country——
A question, please, Deputy.
——are disadvantaged. I am asking the Minister to rectify that imbalance and to indicate if the Government will consider bringing in preferential price structures for other sources of energy to do away with that imbalance? It is a "yes" or "no" situation. Are the Government going to discriminate against one section of the community? What is the Minister's attitude in that regard?
This series of questions is in connection with the extension of natural gas to named towns.
Question No. 7 is not that.
Most of these questions are.
I have asked the Minister specifically if the Government will take measures to minimise the disadvantage to people in one region. All I am asking the Minister to do is to satisfy those people who are disadvantaged in this country because of the distribution of this natural resource. Will the Minister rectify the position; "yes" or "no"?
The answer to that question is "no", it would not be feasible for me to do so.
I take it from the Minister's reply that he is positively stating that his Government will discriminate against a region of this country?
That is argument. Deputy Foley has been offering.
I am not aware that the last Government, of which Deputy Flynn was a Member, made any such decision.
We cannot have argument. Deputy Foley has been offering for some time.
Would the Minister agree that, for future industrial development in Kerry, it is essential to have a spin-off of natural gas into the county, that otherwise industrialists will not be interested in investing there? Last December I was given a commitment that a survey would be possible within 12 to 18 months. I understand now from the Minister that it may take some years.
It would be wrong of me to say that a supply of natural gas would be brought to Tralee or to north Kerry in the short-term. That is not possible at this time. In reply to a number of questions I have outlined the development of a natural gas grid for the country. We must accept that the gas find itself is limited. In the event of a further gas find the matter could be reviewed in a more favourable light.
Would the Minister tell the House when he proposes to make up his mind on the districts which the natural gas grid will serve because places such as the west should be informed as soon as possible. Would the Minister agree further that the Limerick-Shannon-Ennis and Galway regions together — which could be served by the same gasline — are equally commercially viable as is, say Dublin city at present?
I appreciate the concern of the Deputy. At this time there is a supply of natural gas in Cork city and Dublin. Discussions are taking place with regard to an onward supply to Belfast. The Government are also agreeable, in principle, to bringing a supply of natural gas to Limerick and Waterford cities where there are gas utilities. When that phase is completed we can then think of other areas for a supply of natural gas.
That does not answer my question. I asked when this decision would be taken. It is not good enough for the Minister to reply that a decision will be taken when, for instance, Limerick city is served.
A question, please, Deputy.
I consider the least that could be done by the Minister — and I should like him to reply specifically to this — is that his Department would decide whether natural gas will ever go to the west. The Minister should tell us if there are no proposals to extend the natural gas grid, for instance, to the Galway area.
At this time there are no proposals to extend natural gas to the west.
In view of the fact that the intended direction of the trunk pipeline is near the town of Drogheda — and bearing in mind that the Minister said in reply to an earlier question that areas within the proximity of the trunk pipeline would be served — is it fair for me to assume that County Meath would receive a supply of gas when that trunk line passes?
The actual route of the pipeline north of Dublin has not yet been finalised. I am not sure I understand the Deputy correctly: whether he was asking if it would be possible to supply County Meath; did he mean the town centre or the whole county?
The situation is this, that Drogheda is on the border of County Meath——
A question, Deputy, notwithstanding the fact that you were asked for information.
The Minister gave me an interrogative reply. Arising out of the Minister's query, Drogheda is on the borders of County Meath; for example, Irish Cement is in County Meath——
We cannot allow that. The Deputy could go on for half an hour.
I must stress that, in replying, the Minister said that premium market areas within proximty of the trunk line would receive favourable consideration for a supply of natural gas. I assume that when the trunk line is passing from Dublin to Belfast, County Meath and in particular Cement Roadstone and Tara Mines in Navan, both of which need it very badly, will receive favourable consideration.
In relation especially to Cement Roadstone and the Tara Mines, if a viable proposition can be put to the Department, I will consider that matter once the pipeline is actually there. But until such time as that comes to fruition, we cannot take a decision on it.
Is the Minister aware further that in County Meath in the furniture and carpet industries alone there are approximately 4,500 people employed, that both of those industries incur exceptionally high costs and that a supply of natural gas would be extremely beneficial to them. Would the Minister consider that those industries would also benefit from the supply of natural gas?
In relation to any application by an industry it must be borne in mind that the pricing policy in relation to natural gas is that which is related to heavy fuel oil prices. Therefore each industry or company must consider economies in their own operation by converting to natural gas. It may very well be that a conversion to, say, coal would be more economic.
This is positively the last supplementary. We have not taken nine questions in 40 minutes.
First, arising out of an earlier reply by the Minister would he confirm what he said a few moments ago, that there will be no further allocation decisions made until there are future finds of gas. Secondly, I might remind the Minister — just to keep the record straight — that it was the previous Government who took the first steps to bring natural gas to the western seaboard by deciding to go to Limerick and indeed to Clonmel and Waterford? Thirdly, would he not agree that there is need for decisions to be taken so that advance planning can be done to ensure that the crews there — who did such an excellent job on the Cork to Dublin line — are fully occupied, thereby ensuring that the job will be done efficiently?
I do not wish to go back on the history of the pipeline. I would be very happy at this time to see the completion of the Dublin to Belfast pipeline, assuming agreement is reached——
There is a separate question in relation to that later on on the Order Paper.
I would also be pleased to see the completion of the pipeline to Waterford and to Limerick. Then the next option would be that of supplying it to other town centres where there is an existing town gas utility. After that we can consider industries on or near the pipeline and, after that again, we can consider other areas. There are a lot of steps in the evolution of a natural gas grid which I have been at pains to tell the House but which apparently many Deputies do not want to understand.
The Minister said himself there would be no further allocation decisions taken unless there were new gas finds.
On a point of order, because of the totally unsatisfactory reply to Question No. 7, I should like to raise the matter on the Adjournement.
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Flynn.
10.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy the area in Waterford city and county likely to get a supply of natural gas; and when these areas can expect a supply to be available.
Waterford is one of the areas at present under consideration for possible supply of natural gas. In this regard Bord Gáis Éireann have carried out a study into the feasibility of constructing a spur line to Waterford, the results of which are at present under consideration in my Department. Waterford Gas were requested to carry out a parallel study into the prospects for distribution and marketing of natural gas in the area. This study is not, however, as yet complete.
When I have completed an examination of the essential studies I will bring the matter before the Government.
I am asking the Minister to give his personal attention to ensuring that Waterford will get a supply of natural gas as quickly as possible.
The Deputy need not remind me of the urgency of bringing natural gas to Waterford.
Would you say he is pushing an open gas pipe?
11.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if he is aware of the importance to industry and services in County Louth of the need to extend the natural gas pipeline from Dublin to the Border via County Louth; if he is further aware that a decision on his part in regard to this matter would help to secure existing jobs in this Border county and help to secure new jobs for the unemployed; and if he will make a statement on this important matter.
As the Deputy may be aware, negotiations are at an advanced stage on a possible agreement for the supply of Kinsale natural gas to Northern Ireland.
If the pipeline to the North is to be constructed, due consideration will, of course, be given to making supplies of natural gas available in the Louth area. I am aware of the potential benefits of such a supply. Natural gas is a valuable national asset and I must point out that in the interests of the country as a whole, natural gas supplies will only be made available to those industries which are prepared to pay a realistic price for it.
Will the Minister assure us that the towns along the route of the proposed pipeline to Belfast will be given supplies of natural gas?
It will depend on when the final route has been established. Then the matter will become clear.
Is the Minister suggesting that it may happen that Dundalk and Drogheda will not get supplies of natural gas?
I am not saying that at all. We are most anxious to make natural gas available to the major centres near the site of the pipeline.
The Minister said it would depend on where the line would be drawn. Will he positively state that the two most important towns in the country will get natural gas?
If it is technically and financially possible to bring a supply of natural gas to Drogheda and Dundalk my Department will be favourably disposed to considering it.
If the route of the Dublin to Belfast pipeline will be via Drogheda and Dundalk will the Minister tell us if he will make a supply available to the Cooley Peninsula, considering the favourable conditions there for glasshouses?
That is a hypothetical question.
Will the Minister not accept that it is he and he alone who will decide whether the pipeline will go through Drogheda and Dundalk? There would be no other sensible route unless the Minister wanted to put it on the seabed.
The Deputy is now giving evidence about the correct line.
The Minister does not seem to have the right evidence so I am giving this for his information. Is he aware there are industries in that area that will not survive unless there is some relief given to them? If there is no quick decision to send the pipeline there, relief will have to be given through easement of the hydrocarbon tax. I am sure the Minister is aware of the serious situation that has arisen there because of energy costs.
There are a number of questions. I would be very happy to have the natural gas brought to the two towns. It will take some time to bring the pipeline to the Border, assuming agreement can be reached, and we all hope it can be reached. With regard to hydrocarbon tax, when he was in Government he had the opportunity——
Who gives the decision in regard to the route? I gave the lead.
The Deputy knows my Department will decide the route.
Was I hearing clearly? Will the Minister not agree that it would be inconceivable lunacy to attempt to bring natural gas through to Belfast without going through Drogheda and Dundalk?
I said I am favourably disposed towards bringing natural gas through Drogheda and Dundalk. It is a technical matter. There is no problem.
Will the Minister not agree that it is not a question of being favourably disposed, but that it would be economic madness to bring the gas by pipeline to Belfast and not to supply Drogheda and Dundalk en route?
I said there is no problem.
Therefore, the Minister will supply both towns?
As soon as the technical matters can be resolved, as soon as the Department are agreed that the financial matters have been catered for. Until these matters have been settled I cannot give that assurance.
I take it that the two towns will get the gas. In those circumstances will the Minister ensure that the above-ground installations will be located at the optimum point of access to the market, in other words as close to the two towns as possible?
The Deputy can take that to be the case.
The Minister will agree that was not done in the original plan. The closer the pipeline will be to the towns the less the cost will be.
I am not sure if the Deputy is referring to possible plans for the pipeline accepted by his colleague, Deputy Reynolds. The question should have been addressed to Deputy Reynolds when he was in office.
12.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy when he expects to sign the contract, which has already been negotiated, for the supply of Kinsale natural gas to the North of Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Negotiations are continuing at ministerial and official level for a supply of Kinsale natural gas to Northern Ireland. The two Governments involved have agreed, in principle, to a supply of gas being made available subject to agreement being reached on satisfactory terms. The current negotiations are directed at defining and clarifying the terms of sale which had been agreed in general terms. Subject to agreement on the issues now under discussion, I would then request Bord Gáis Éireann to enter into a supply contract with the appropriate purchasing authority in Northern Ireland.
Will the Minister be more specific and tell us exactly what is the position? Last May, agreement in principle was reached in Stormont Castle between Mr. Butler and me. Is the Minister now saying that the terms are being disputed, that new terms will have to be negotiated? Is there some deviation from the terms negotiated and approved by the previous Government last August?
Discussions are continuing in that regard. Of the 11 heads of agreement, six have been agreed together with one of the three annexes. The remaining five heads of agreement and the relevant annexes cover more crucial areas, such as the date of agreement, transmission, capital contributions, escalator and currencies. They are matters of a complex nature which will need a lot of negotiation in order that a fair deal is done for BGE.
The Minister has referred to five heads which are not agreed. I suggest to the Minister that before I left office agreement was reached. Who is trying to change the terms of that agreement? Not only was the capital cost agreed and the escalator, but the terms of the contract were agreed. The total supply was agreed. The Minister is now trying to say that somebody is trying to change them. Who is trying to change them? Is it our Minister or the Minister up there?
It is a matter for negotiation between Ministers and officials in the Departments concerned.
Ceist 13.
One final supplementary. This is a very important matter.
I am sure it is important, but it is a matter for an Estimate debate rather than Question Time.
Before I left office there was agreement between officials on all heads. I am trying to get from the Minister, who is trying to change the agreement, is it the Irish Minister for Industry and Energy or is it the British Government?
The Deputy can be assured that this Government are fully committed to bringing a supply of natural gas to Northern Ireland.
That is not the question I asked. I asked who is trying to change the terms which have been agreed.
The Deputy might let me answer. It is also important that the terms of the contract for the supply of gas should be beneficial to this country as well as Northern Ireland. This is a matter for negotiation between both Ministers. The negotiations are ongoing. There is no attempt to change the general principle of supplying gas to Northern Ireland.
Is the Minister suggesting in his reply—and this is a vital national asset——
It is important national policy.
The Deputy can raise it on the Adjournment or somewhere else, but I will not have it discussed at Question Time.
On a point of order, we want to be helpful and reasonable on this side of the House, but this is a matter of major national importance and national policy. People on this side of the House are entitled to investigate it fully. I have been listening and I suggest that Deputy Reynolds is not getting answers to perfectly valid and legitimate questions he is asking.
I should like to deal with the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition. He made the point that this is a major national issue. In the Chair's opinion that virtually excludes it from being dealt with in depth at Question Time. The Chair has no control over the way questions are answered. The Standing Order says that supplementary questions both as to relevance and to numbers are in the discretion of the Chair. I am exercising that discretion now. I am giving one further supplementary to Deputy Reynolds on this matter, and then I am passing on to the next question. Normally we deal with 25 to 30 questions in the hour allocated to Question Time. Today it looks as if we will deal with less than half of that number.
On a point of order——
If it is a point of order.
The next question is my Question No. 13 and I would be anxious to have it answered today if possible. That does not mean that in order to get a certain number of questions answered——
That is not a point of order.
I want to make this point of order to the Ceann Comhairle.
If it is a point of order.
It is dealing with the order of business in this House. I want to suggest to you, Sir, that it is not a matter of priority in the order of this House that any particular number of questions should be answered.
The Chair has not said so.
Yes, you did.
No, the Chair did not say so.
You complained that we are dealing with a limited number of questions only. I am suggesting that the number of questions dealt with at Question Time is not a matter of priority.
Deputy Haughey will resume his seat. Standing Order No. 36 says that supplementary questions may be put only for further elucidation of the information requested, and shall be subject to the ruling of the Ceann Comhairle, both as to relevance and as to number. In pursuance of that Standing Order I am asking Deputy Reynolds to put one further supplementary and I am then moving to the next question.
I am making the point of order to you again, Sir, that you have made two statements in this House.
I am ruling that that is not a point of order.
I have not made it yet so you cannot rule on it. You made two statements to the House. One is that because this is a matter of major national importance it is not suitable for investigation at Question Time.
In depth.
I want to challenge that ruling, Sir. Secondly, I want to challenge your ruling that the number of questions dealt with at Question Time takes priority over the quality of the investigation of any particular issue.
The Leader of the Opposition will please sit down. If he wants to challenge the Chair's ruling there is a well defined way of doing that, and he will have to confine himself to it.
I want to give notice that I want to raise both these issues with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
You can have them raised, certainly. That is not the way to challenge the Chair's ruling. There is a well defined way of censuring the Chair.
I think you are making up rules as you go along.
Does Deputy Reynolds want to ask a supplementary?
This time I hope the Minister will give me straight answers to straight questions. Arising out of his last statement, is he suggesting that the terms negotiated and agreed in Belfast, and approved by the Irish Government, are not in the best interests of the country? Secondly, is he suggesting to me that the five heads he called out were not agreed before I left office? Will he deny that the officials in his own Department informed me before I left that agreement was reached in full by the officials on both sides? Finally, will he answer the question I asked earlier? Who is stopping the implementation of this agreement, the British Government or the Irish Government?
Nobody is stopping an agreement. It is a matter of concluding the negotiations which are in train at the moment. They deal with very difficult areas.
So the Minister is renegotiating?
I am sure the Deputy is aware that we have to be careful with regard to establishing the position for payment for the natural gas in sterling when the sterling and the punt link is relatively volatile at this time. There are other matters which I mentioned to the Deputy. The negotiations relate to the period of the agreement, transmission problems, the capital contribution and the escalation. These are all matters which are very relevant——
Is the Minister saying the capital allocation has not been agreed? He is misleading the House.
At official and ministerial level there will have to be full negotiations and full discussions in order to arrive at a contract which is acceptable to this Government.
In other words, the Minister does not agree that the last one was acceptable?
Ceist 13. The Minister will please answer the question.
The allegations made by the Deputy are unfair. There is no reason why arrangements initiated by the previous Government should be concluded just like that. Of their nature the negotiations must be ongoing until we find a solution which is acceptable to my Government and which I can put before them.
The Minister did not answer my question.
Will the Minister please answer Ceist 13?
He has not answered the last one. I asked him who had reservations about the contract negotiated with the British Government.
Deputy Reynolds will resume his seat.
Do the British Government want to change the terms negotiated?
No one has reservations.
Will the Minister please answer Ceist 13?
A Cheann Comhairle, you should not allow unfair allegations to be thrown at me from the other side of the House in an irresponsible manner. They are sitting over there and they are not prepared to treat Question Time seriously.
The Minister will please answer Ceist 13.
I am entitled to say Deputies opposite are not being responsible.
The Minister is trying to give them better terms. I know what he is trying to do.
The Minister is not answering very important issues in this House.
I take it——
I am asking the Minister to answer Ceist 13.
I do not think you should allow the Leader of the Opposition to get away with that statement. We try to do our best on this side of the House.
If the Minister gave us the facts there would be no need for this. The British Government are looking for a renegotiation of the terms because they did not suit them.
That is not the case.
It is the case and I knew it before I left the Department. The Minister is misleading the House by giving information which he knows is not correct.
The Chair will adjourn Question Time if the Minister does not answer Question No. 13.