asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is satisfied with the number of Land Commission inspectors who are dealing with schemes for division of lands and if he will make a statement on the matter.
6.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Land Commission.
5.
(Limerick West) asked the Minister for Agriculture his plans for the disposal of lands held at present by the Land Commission.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.
The Land Commission are at present examining the steps to be taken for the disposal of the land on hands in the context of the staff releases that will have to be made in connection with the new farm tax announced in the National Plan.
(Limerick West): Would the Minister indicate the approach of the Land Commission regarding the disposal of the land at present? Would he indicate to the House that some of this land, if not all of it, is being sold back to the people from whom it was originally purchased and no consideration is being given to the smallholders in the area?
That is a separate question.
It is a separate question and it comes up later.
Can the Minister tell the House if the Land Commission can state what estates will be divided this year? They were not able to tell me when I had a parliamentary question down earlier in the year.
That is a separate question and this is a very general question.
For obvious reasons I cannot give the Deputy the exact amount but I would like to inform the House that there is an accelerated plan in operation at the moment to get a lot of land off hands. It is quite possible that there will be a very small amount on hands at the end of this year. That also comes up in a later question.
The standard reply we are getting here is that an estate will be divided when the Department look——
I understand that comes up on another question.
The Minister has not answered my question about the number of Land Commission inspectors to divide the land. We are being told that because of the assessment of land for land tax there will be a delay in the division of land and, arising from that, how can the Minister say that we are accelerating the division of land?
That matter will be dealt with in another question. The position is that 91 inspectors have been seconded to the Department of Finance.
If the matter is to come up on a later question there is no point in debating it now. This amounts to a gross waste of time.
I should like to ask if the same conditions are being applied to applicants for land division at present or is there haste by the Land Commission to dispose of the land they have regardless of the circumstances of applicants?
The criterion is the same.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister indicate the amount of land that will remain to be allocated when the Land Commission are wound up?
While I am anxious to give the Deputy a reasonable answer, I must point out to him that the reply would have to be my own because the Bill will be coming before the House later. I do not know when that will be but the Bill has a direct bearing on the amount of land left for division.
Are there different conditions concerning the division of land in regard to fencing, drainage and roads?
That is a separate question. It is true to say that there is a slightly different system for some estates but that does not mean that they are not being divided or that the people who are getting the land are any worse off. The Deputy is aware that a certain amount of fencing and drainage work is going on all the time.
Will the estates that the Land Commission have but do not have vacant possession of for some reason or other such as grazing rights and so on — there are five or six such estates in my constituency — be allotted by the Land Commission this year?
That is a separate question. I do not wish to mislead the Deputy and I will contact him later about this matter. The estates are in different categories and it would be unfair to tell the Deputy about them off the top of my head. I will communicate with the Deputy.
7.
asked the Minister for Agriculture the total number of Land Commission inspectors; and the number at present transferred to land tax sections.
The total number of Land Commission inspectors is 135, of whom 91 have been seconded by the Department of Finance to undertake the assessment of adjusted areas for the proposed farm tax.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister indicate where the Land Commission inspectors have come from?
They have come from all over Ireland. I cannot pinpoint where each inspector came from but they came from the area offices.
What progress has been made in the adjusting of the acreage for the land tax?
That is a separate question.
Surely it arises out of the question before the House? I should like to know before 20 June if the full programme will be in force.
Will the Minister agree that the change means that 44 inspectors will be operating in the 26 Counties? Is that an adequate number to deal with sub-division applications, not to talk about the division of land and allotment?
The fact that 91 inspectors have been seconded to the Department of Finance does not mean that they are not actively involved in land reallocation. For obvious reasons they are not at the moment starting on the land assessment. Many of them are still working with the Land Commission.
When will the 91 inspectors move over and devote their time fully to assessing land on an adjusted acreage basis?
That is a matter for another Minister and I cannot answer it.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister indicate the type of training involved for these Land Commission inspectors?
No; that does not have anything to do with my Department.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister indicate if it is true that the land tax may never see the light of day? The Government got the message clearly in Cork.
8.
(Limerick West) asked the Minister for Agriculture when it is proposed to wind up the functions of the Land Commission.
9.
(Limerick West) asked the Minister for Agriculture if it is proposed to abolish the role of the Land Commissioners and to transfer their powers to his Department; and, if so, when this will be done.
10.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if it proposed to continue with land acquisitions after the transfer of the Land Commission to his Department to enable small holdings to be brought up to more viable sizes; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 to 10, inclusive, together.
The legislation to give effect to the abolition of the Land Commission, which is at present being drafted, will suppress the offices of Lay Commissioner and Judicial Commissioner and will terminate the power to acquire land. The remaining functions will be transferred to my Department.
Under the group purchase scheme, recently introduced, farmers are being encouraged and assisted to get together and buy land coming up for sale in their areas. Subjects under examination at present include control of the purchase of agricultural land so that the smaller farmer and the qualified landless person will have a better opportunity to compete on the open market.
(Limerick West): Am I correct in stating that when the Land Commission are abolished their functions will be taken over by a section in the Minister's Department that will not have power to acquire land?
The Deputy is anticipating a Bill.
(Limerick West): I am asking if that is what the Minister said.
As I stated in my reply, it will be the Department of Agriculture that will be involved and that Department have been in control of all the matters referred to, other than the acquisition of land, since 1977.
(Limerick West): Will that section have power to acquire land?
No. I should like to make it clear that the section will have certain controls on the purchase of land sales and that will have the same effect.
I should like to make it clear to Members that it would be quite unreasonable to start to discuss a Bill that will be introduced later and which, I am sure, will take up a lot of time when it comes before the House. Deputies will have an opportunity of dealing with it in full when it comes before the House.
(Limerick West): The Minister stated that the powers of the Lay Commissioner in the Land Commission will be suppressed and I should like to know if there will be any avenue for small holders to acquire land or will it be dealt with through group purchase?
Regardless of what the Minister said, I am not going to throw this matter open to a discussion. I will not permit a discussion on what will replace the Land Commission or what sort of policy will be in operation, for the simple reason that it is not suitable for Question Time.
(Limerick West): My question arose out of the Minister's reply.
Ministers are not always infallible.
(Limerick West): Is the Minister also out of order?
Yes.
In the course of his reply the Minister mentioned group purchase schemes and I should like to know how successful they have been to date.
That is a totally different question.
Will financial aid be provided to help small farmers compete with ranchers and speculators in the purchase of land?
The group purchase scheme has been very successful. With regard to the other point raised by the Deputy I should like to say that for obvious reasons I cannot talk about it today because the plans and examinations for future control of land purchases have not reached a conclusion.
What does the Minister mean by "very successful"?
I am calling Deputy McCartin.
I am following up a point.
That does not matter.
"Very successful" could mean very unsuccessful to ordinary people.
Will the Minister explain something for me? It has been stated that the Land Commission has been acquiring land for small farmers but my experience is that the commission buy land on the open market like anybody else and give it to small farmers at the price they have paid but usually at a higher rate of interest——
That is not a question; it is a speech.
Will the Minister agree that the maximum benefit any small farmer can get is £1,300, the equivalent of the price of one acre of land and, very often, after waiting for 20 years?
That is a question on land policy.
(Limerick West): Can the Minister say when the functions of the Land Commission will be wound up. When can we expect the legislation?
The Minister already answered that question: he said he did not know.
Typical of this Government.
11.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he has any plans to make available for leasing the land at present in the possession of the Land Commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The Land Commission have no plans for the leasing of any more of the land in their possession. The intention now is to dispose of all lands on a permanent basis as quickly as possible.
The Minister promoted the idea of land leasing last year. Now that there are several thousand acres of land with the Land Commission he should take the opportunity of putting his policies into practice.
This is something to which I have given a lot of consideration. Because most of this land was acquired initially for the relief of congestion it is quite difficult to arrive at a criterion which could include long term leasing under these conditions. Many of the local farmers surrounding this estate believe that they have a greater avenue than anybody from outside. Because the Land Commission are being wound up, it was felt that it was better to allocate the land under the old system.
12.
(Limerick West) asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will outline (a) the number of long term leases and (b) the number of medium and short term leases held and finalised in 1984.
The Land Commission issued consent to five applications for long term leases and to 12 applications for medium and short term leases in 1984.