Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 16 Jun 1987

Vol. 373 No. 8

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 7 to 12 inclusive, 13, 2, 14 to 22 inclusive, 29 and 30 (Votes 30-34 inclusive).

It is also proposed that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and not later than 12.30 a.m. tomorrow and Business shall be interrupted at 12 midnight tonight.

It is further proposed that Nos. 7 to 12 inclusive shall be taken without debate and shall be decided by one question.

It is further proposed that No. 13 shall be taken without debate.

It is further proposed that Nos. 14 to 22 shall be taken without debate and shall be decided by one question.

It is further proposed that the proceedings on the Committee and remaining Stages of the Finance Bill, 1987, shall be brought to a conclusion in accordance with the following timetable; and where proceedings are to be concluded at a stated time they shall be concluded by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Finance.

The timetable is as follows:

Date	Proceedings	Questions shall be put not later than
	Sections
Tuesday, 16 June 1987	1-5 inclusive	4.45 p.m.
	6-11 inclusive	7 p.m.
Wednesday, 17 June 1987	12-20 inclusive	1.30 p.m.
	21-25 inclusive	4.30 p.m.
	26-33 inclusive	6 p.m.
	34-50 inclusive	7 p.m.
	and Title
Thursday, 18 June 1987	Report (including any recommittal) and Fifth Stage	5 p.m.

It is further proposed that No. 30 (Votes 30 to 34 inclusive) shall be taken not later than 8.30 p.m. today and shall be taken together for the purposes of debate and shall be brought to a conclusion by one question not later than 12 midnight tonight and the Order shall not resume thereafter.

It is further proposed that, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders the following arrangements shall apply for the debates on the Estimates being taken this week:

1. The opening speech of the Minister moving the Votes shall not exceed 30 minutes;

2. The speech of any other Member shall not exceed 20 minutes;

3. No Member shall speak more than once in each debate with the exception of the Minister moving the Votes who shall be called on to conclude not later than ten minutes before the respective Votes conclude.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 56.

Mr. D. O'Malley

On a point of order, I should like to inquire whether the Chair proposes to read the amendment which I have put down to the motion. In my view it would help the House if the amendments were read out so that Members could consider them.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have, within the past few minutes, received amendments in the names of Deputies Desmond O'Malley and Mary Harney. I cannot allow those amendments now. They were submitted to my office at 3.40 p.m. today and I have had no opportunity to consider them. The Order of Business was available before 12 noon today and the Deputies had ample opportunity to submit these amendments earlier for proper consideration.

Mr. D. O'Malley

The Order of Business for today was given to me after lunch today and I had no earlier opportunity to draft the amendments. In fact, when we were at a meeting this morning our party Whip made telephone inquiries on a number of occasions looking for the motion grounding today's Order of Business but she was not able to get it until well after that meeting had concluded.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should like to repeat that I had no opportunity whatsoever to consider these amendments and, in any event, if Deputies wish strongly to oppose the Order of Business today they may do so.

Mr. Dukes

In relation to the arrange ments concerning the Finance Bill it is provided that, where proceedings are to be concluded at a stated time, they shall be concluded by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall in relation to amendments include only amendments set down by the Minister for Finance. I rise simply to clarify one point in relation to that, that is, to put it beyond doubt that, in the event that a section is reached and is ready to be put to the question before the stated time, that question, being within the group of questions provided for within that time, can be put within the time. In other words, if it appears that a section between sections 6 and 11 is ready to be put to the question between 4.45 p.m. and 7 p.m. the question will be put from the Chair during that time.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will conform to the Order of the House, strictly to the Order of the House. May I suggest that we leave it that way? Order please. May I proceed to deal with the Order of Business?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Chair to proceed. Deputy Spring and Deputy O'Malley please resume your seats. Allow the Chair to proceed to deal with the Order of Business. I will proceed to ascertain the extent to which there is agreement on the Order of Business and if there is not agreement we shall deal with that aspect of the matter in the usual way.

Mr. Spring

With all respect——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am proceeding to deal with the Order of Business. Deputy Spring may make his objections at the appropriate time.

Mr. Spring

I wish to make my objection now as this is the appropriate time.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is indicating to you, Deputy Spring, that he is proceeding to announce the Order of Business to ascertain what is agreed and what is not agreed and the Deputy will be afforded an opportunity at that stage.

Mr. Spring

I can now tell you that nothing has been agreed.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the late sitting agreed? Agreed.

A Deputy

Deputy O'Malley wants to sit late until the summer recess.

Deputies

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have dealt with that. Is the proposal for the establishment of committees agreed?

Deputies

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal in respect of No. 13 agreed?

Deputies

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal in respect of the financial resolutions, Items 14 to 22, agreed?

Deputies

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the arrangements in respect of the proposed time-table for the Committee and Remaining Stages of the Finance Bill agreed?

Mr. Keating

Nothing has been agreed.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the arrangements for the taking of the Estimates agreed?

Mr. Keating

Nothing is agreed on this side of the House.

Mr. D. O'Malley

Could I make the point again that I have circulated four amendment relating to the Order of Business——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled on that aspect of the matter.

Mr. D. O'Malley

——which would have the effect of avoiding the unfortunate situation that matters of considerable importance which appear on this Order of Business would not be taken without debate which I think is regrettable, for example, the establishment of six committees of the House under these motions and equally the failure to establish at least five or six other committees which a great many Members of the House think are essential at present. Furthermore——

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy. On a matter of information for the Chair may I take it that the Deputy is not objecting to the late sitting? He is now dealing specifically with the proposal for the establishment of committees.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I personally have no objection to the late sitting.

An Ceann Comhairle

Fair enough. The Chair wishes to proceed to clear his mind of all aspects of the matter. We are now dealing with the establishment of committees.

Mr. D. O'Malley

It is also necessary to delete the words "without debate" in relation to the proposal to take this motion in the name of the Government Whip which has the effect of changing fundamentally the whole arrangements in relation to Private Members' Business. The House will recall that, as recently as November and December of last year, new Standing Orders were made and they were agreed by the House at that time. They were circulated to Members as a new bound volume and we saw them for the first time after the reassembly of the present Dáil towards the end of March. It is very ominous at this extremely early stage in this Dáil's lifetime that it should now be thought appropriate by the Government, in consort with the main Opposition party, Fine Gael, to do away with the various provisions and changes that were made at that time.

Mr. Dukes

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Dukes on a point of order.

Mr. Dukes

I would like to know, a Cheann Comhairle, whether at the moment we are dealing with Items Nos. 7 to 12, which cover the appointment of certain committees, or are we dealing with Item No. 13 which appears to be the matter being addressed by Deputy O'Malley. If it is the case that we are dealing with the arrangements in the Order of Business in relation to Items Nos. 7 to 12, it seems to me that Deputy O'Malley is being a wee bit previous in the remarks he is making. As far as Items Nos. 7 to 12 are concerned, perhaps Deputy O'Malley might like to know that the arrangements——

Mr. McDowell

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Dukes

It is very much a point of order because the Deputies on that wing of the House appear to be anticipating the Order of Business. I can inform the House for the edification of Deputy O'Malley and his colleagues that the arrangements for Items Nos. 7 to 12 to be taken without debate have been agreed by my party on the basis that further provisions in relation to other committees of the House will be made immediately after the resumption of the Dáil after the summer recess.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Dukes

If you had the "moxey" to ask you might find out.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I am well aware that Deputy Dukes is a party to the Government's arrangements. That is precisely what I am objecting to and I am entitled to object to it. I am not surprised at Deputy Dukes wishing that I would not discuss the appearance in this motion of Item No. 13 which fundamentally changes all the arrangements we came to a few months ago in relation to Private Members' Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are dealing with Item No. 13.

Mr. Dukes

On a point of order are we dealing with Items Nos. 7 to 12 or Item No. 13? I can inform you, Sir, on the basis which I have just indicated that Items Nos. 7 to 12 have been agreed by my party.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Dukes

Deputies are very highly attached to the various punctilios of the legal profession. If they could allow us to proceed with the Order of Business in the proper way we could, perhaps, come to the point which seems to be worrying them.

Mr. D. O'Malley

It does not surprise me that Fine Gael should not wish to have the motion relating to Private Members' Business debated here today.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy now going on to deal with Item No. 13?

Mr. D. O'Malley

I am dealing with all the things set out in the Motion. I propose to take them one after the other.

An Ceann Comhairle

In that case the Chair was seeking to dispose of the various items as he announced them and as announced by the Taoiseach. If Deputies wish to discuss them together I will put the question on the Order of Business in its entirety and dispose of the matter in that fashion.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I am dealing with the third paragraph of the motion which is the one that was not agreed to first, as I understand it. The second paragraph has now been agreed. With regard to the first paragraph, it is the Taoiseach's prerogative to name the items on the Order Paper in the order in which they will be taken but beyond that it needs a motion and the agreement of the House. That is clear from Standing Order No. 25 which says:

... The Taoiseach shall have the right to determine the order in which Government business shall appear on the Order Paper and, by announcement at the commencement of public business, the order in which it shall be taken each day.

An Ceann Comhairle

May I ask the Deputy not to over-elaborate. Other Deputies may also wish to contribute.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I appreciate that.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is anxious to dispose of this matter as quickly as possible so that we may get down to the business of the day.

Mr. D. O'Malley

It is clear from Standing Order No. 25 that the Taoiseach's only prerogative in this respect is to name the order in which the items will be taken. He does not have any prerogative to enforce an announcement that items will be taken without debate, that they will stop at a particular time, or that they will be decided in a particular way by one question only.

So far as the committees are concerned, I put down an amendment as soon as I could after I got this motion, which I got a short time ago, to delete the words in the third paragraph "without debate and shall be decided by one question". It would then read: "It is further proposed that Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, shall be taken." This would enable Members to debate motions Nos. 7 to 12 to consider the terms in which the six committees are set up, to propose possible amendments to their terms of reference and, in particular, to allow Members the opportunity to put down further motions establishing further committees in respect of different matters which they thought appropriate, such as public expenditure, health, education, foreign affairs, and so on.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will agree that at this stage a brief contribution will be sufficient to register opposition and to specify the areas of opposition he has in mind.

Mr. D. O'Malley

These are my main areas of opposition. Fundamentally my opposition is this: this proposal to have a small number of committees is part and parcel of a broader scenario to try to confine as much as possible the business of this House and, in particular, to seek to achieve a situation in which only the two major parties will have a say in what the House debates, for how long, what committees will be set up, and things of that kind. I find that objectionable. This is the trend at present in this House, not just in matters coming before the House or that are prevented coming before the House, but also in wider matters. For example, the debate which is going on in relation to changes in the electoral system——

An Ceann Comhairle

I would remind the Deputy that other Members are seeking to make contributions. Will the Deputy please bear with me? What he has said is adequate to convey his views to the House.

Mr. Spring

On behalf of the Labour Party I am objecting to the Order of Business. It is ludicrous to expect that the Order of Business as set out could be accepted by the smaller parties. What is at stake here is fundamental. This is only the tip of the iceberg in relation to the procedures which have been adopted by the Government Whip and the major Opposition Party Whip since the House assembled. It is not in the best interest of democracy that the Whips of the two major parties, to the exclusion of the Whips of the other parties, should meet to agree business without any consultation with the Whips of the Labour Party or the other parties on this side of the House.

I bring it to your Notice, Sir, as the Chairman of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that what is proposed here today in relation to Private Members' Time is an attack on the rights of smaller parties. I do not think it is good enough for the Government members of that committee to stand back from the debate because, despite the fact that they do not have a majority in this House, they have a large number of members on that committee and they also have a responsibility to ensure that democracy prevails.

We are objecting to the Order of Business. I shall try to stay within your restrictions and save you from raising you hand to me any further today, but I have to stress that it is not in the best interests of the House that the Order of Business before us should be accepted by us.

Tomás Mac Giolla

On behalf of The Workers' Party I also oppose the Order of Business for a number of reasons but specifically because of the schedule of business for the Finance Bill. The Committee Stage of that Bill is to be dealt with in less than one and a half days. It is now 4.15 p.m. and there are only 30 minutes available to deal with the PAYE sector in the Finance Bill — sections 1 to 5. Once again the PAYE sector is treated like dirt. I object to the procedure of dividing the debate as is being done here. I am amazed any so-called Opposition leader would agree to this procedure where it would be almost impossible for a vote to be called on any amendment because this gives the Minister almost total control over the debate.

Mr. Dukes

A filibuster.

Tomás Mac Giolla

I am amazed at a leader of an Opposition agreeing to that. Leaving only two days for the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill is totally unacceptable. The crowding of business today and tomorrow seems to indicate that there will be an early adjournment, which is also totally unacceptable.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his case.

Tomás Mac Giolla

I object to the time allowed and the manner in which the Committee Stage is divided.

Mr. McDowell

On a point of order, in relation to item No. 13, the resolution dealing with the procedures this House is to adopt in relation to Private Members' Time between now and Christmas, I am asking for your ruling. Does that resolution constitute an amendment of Standing Orders or is it a derogation from Standing Orders? This is a matter of importance.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is the way in which that Standing Order shall operate until Christmas, if the House decides.

Mr. McDowell

Is it an amendment of Standing Orders? Yes or no.

Mr. Birmingham

Since when is the Ceann Comhairle cross-examined?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. McDowell

I will draw your attention to Standing Order No. 143——

Mr. Dukes

It is a good thing the Deputy is here to make the case.

Mr. McDowell

I know there are a number of Deputies here who do not want the rules to be operated, but it is your duty, Sir, to make sure this happens.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. McDowell

I want to draw your attention to Standing Order No. 143 which reads:

(1) Any Standing Order or Orders of the Dáil may be suspended or modified in effect for the day's sitting, and for a particular purpose, upon motion made after notice.

That situation is that——

The Taoiseach

On a point of order——

Mr. McDowell

I am making a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a very long point of order.

The Taoiseach

Would you be prepared to accept a motion from me that the Order of Business be now put to the House for decision?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am coming to that.

Mr. McDowell

I was making a point of order, and it is this——

An Ceann Comhairle

Briefly please, Deputy.

Mr. McDowell

My point of order is this: the rules of this House by which we are all bound, including yourself, the Taoiseach and the Leader of the Opposition, are that you cannot abrogate the rules in relation to procedure for a period of time on a casual basis except for the day only. That is clearly set out in Standing Order No. 143. It is now being attempted to bring in an amendment which is a derogation from the rules——

Mr. J. Bruton

The House can govern its own procedure.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is completely satisfied that the procedure is in strict accord with the rules and the procedures of this House.

Mr. McDowell

I am glad the Chair is satisfied.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is clear to me that the Order of Business is being opposed and I am now putting the question: "That the Order of Business as outlined by the Taoiseach be agreed to."

Mr. Keating

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is on his feet. You may make a point of order quickly.

Mr. Keating

Some of us had questions on other aspects of the Order of Business, not the point——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot spend all day on that.

Mr. Keating

Excuse me. With respect, we simply want to be able to ask questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat.

Mr. Keating

This fascist behaviour cannot be tolerated.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

I will not be browbeaten or bullied. I am now putting the question: "That arrangements in connection with the taking of Business as announced by the Taoiseach be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 116; Níl 27.

Tá

• Abbott, Henry.
• Ahern, Bertie.
• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Allen, Bernard.
• Andrews, David.
• Aylward, Liam.
• Barnes, Monica.
• Barrett, Michael.
• Barrett, Seán.
• Barry, Peter.
• Begley, Michael.
• Birmingham, George.
• Boland, John.
• Brady, Gerard.
• Brady, Vincent.
• Brennan, Matthew.
• Briscoe, Ben.
• Browne, John.
• Bruton, John.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Liam.
• Burke, Ray.
• Byrne, Hugh.
• Calleary, Seán.
• Carey, Donal.
• Collins, Gerard.
• Conaghan, Hugh.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Connolly, Ger.
• Cooney, Patrick Mark.
• Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
• Coughlan, Mary T.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Crowley, Frank.
• Daly, Brendan.
• Davern, Noel.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dennehy, John.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Doherty, Seán.
• Doyle, Avril.
• Dukes, Alan.
• Durkan, Bernard.
• Ellis, John.
• Enright, Thomas.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Fahey, Jackie.
• Fitzgerald, Liam.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermott.
• Fitzpatrick, Tom.
• Flaherty, Mary.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Flood, Chris.
• Flynn, Pádraig.
• Gallagher, Denis.
• Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
• Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Haughey, Charles J.
• Hegarty, Paddy.
• Higgins, Jim.
• Hilliard, Colm Michael.
• Hussey, Gemma.
• Hyland, Liam.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Kelly, John.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Kirk, Séamus.
• Kitt, Michael P.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lawlor, Liam.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Leonard, Jimmy.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Lynch, Michael.
• Lyons, Denis.
• McCarthy, Seán.
• McCreevy, Charlie.
• McGahon, Brendan.
• MacSharry, Ray.
• Mitchell, Gay.
• Mitchell, Jim.
• Mooney, Mary.
• Morley, P. J.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• Naughten, Liam.
• Nealon, Ted.
• Nolan, M. J.
• Noonan, Michael.
• (Limerick East).
• Noonan, Michael J.
• (Limerick West).
• O'Brien, Fergus.
• O'Dea, William Gerard.
• O'Donoghue, John.
• O'Hanlon, Rory.
• O'Keeffe, Batt.
• O'Keeffe, Ned.
• O'Leary, John.
• O'Rourke, Mary.
• Power, Paddy.
• Reynolds, Albert.
• Roche, Dick.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Smith, Michael.
• Stafford, John.
• Taylor-Quinn, Madeline.
• Treacy, Noel.
• Tunney, Jim.
• Wallace, Dan.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Walsh, Seán.
• Wilson, John P.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wright, G.V.
• Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Browne; Níl Deputies Harney and Taylor.

Question declared carried.

Clohessy, Peadar.Colley, Anne.Cullen, Martin.De Rossa, Proinsias.Desmond, Barry.Gibbons, Martin Patrick.Gregory, Tony.Harney, Mary.Higgins, Michael D.Howlin, Brendan.Kavanagh, Liam.Keating, Michael.Kemmy, Jim.Kennedy, Geraldine.

McCartan, Pat.McCoy, John S.McDowell, Michael.Mac Giolla, Tomás.Molloy, Robert.O'Malley, Desmond J.O'Malley, Pat.Pattison, Séamus.Quill, Máirín.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emmet.Taylor, Mervyn.Wyse, Pearse.

Deputies

A new coalition.

An Ceann Comhairle

We now resume on Item No. 7.

Mr. D. O'Malley

On a point of order, are you not putting each of the different questions separately——

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy.

Mr. D. O'Malley

——as you asked me to desist from discussing some of the later points so that each one would be debated separately?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Order of Business in its entirety has now been agreed by this House and I am proceeding to implement it.

Mr. O'Malley

Why did the Chair change his mind?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair did not change his mind at all. The Chair put the questions very clearly, precisely and concisely to this House.

Mr. D. O'Malley

Each question was not put separately. I am entitled to ask for a reply as to why the Chair changed his mind.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair did not change his mind.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I am afraid, Sir, with respect, that he did. When the Taoiseach requested that the questions be put it was apparently accepted by the Chair that they would all be put together.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy O'Malley please appreciate that the Chair put the question very clearly to the House? The question I put was that the arrangements in connection with the taking of business as announced by the Taoiseach be agreed to. That matter has been decided.

Mr. D. O'Malley

I am aware that you put that, Sir, but that is not what you put originally. It was because of interference that you changed your mind.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter has been resolved by this House.

Mr. D. O'Malley

It is a pity that as a result ot the Taoiseach's interference you changed your mind.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a wrong insinuation and the Deputy knows it.

Mr. D. O'Malley

It is perfectly correct.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not correct. If the Deputy proceeds I will insist that he withdraw it.

Mr. Spring

I want to give notice that I wish to raise on the Adjournment of the House the announcement by the Minister for Energy that he intends to relax the oil terms available.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with Deputy Spring in respect of that matter.

Mr. Griffin

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of hereditary Irish titles being offered for sale by public auction today in London. This is offensive to the people of the Baronies concerned and repugnant to our Constitution and status as an independent sovereign State.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Keating

On a point of order, in line with long precedent in this House it was always perceived that the responsibility of the Chair was at least in part to protect the rights of individual Members. I would like to ask how that can now be squared in the context of what we have just witnessed, the axing of the fundamental right of Members of this House to participate in certain key areas of business — and I include backbench Members of both the major parties as well — where we have agreed to a system——

An Ceann Comhairle

Is this a point of order or is it a deliberate attack on the Chair?

Mr. Keating

I am simply asking as non-contentiously as I can that the Members of the House on all sides who depend on you ultimately as the protector of their rights——

An Ceann Comhairle

They may confidently do that.

Mr. Keating

I have never had any real doubts about that. I am asking how you can square that with the writing out of the existing Standing Orders and practice and precedent for years, including the Standing Orders which were just introduced a few months ago——

An Ceann Comhairle

That is the usual procedure in this House and Deputy Keating knows it full well.

Mr. Keating

It never happened before. On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have heard your point of order.

Mr. Keating

On a point of order, would you be good enough to let me know when it last happened that Standing Orders were changed so as to eliminate the rights of Deputies in the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy communicates with my office I will be very pleased to facilitate him.

Mr. Keating

You said a moment ago that this happens regularly. It has never happened before.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will not cross-examine me.

Mr. Keating

You have failed to defend the rights of Members of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Do not worry about that.

Mr. Keating

We have earned the right to be heard and will not be silenced by Members of the major parties.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy persists in barracking of this kind he knows the consequences.

Mr. Keating

It will be on every Order of Business until we get some degree of fair play. All we are looking for is the right to participate and we will not have that right taken from us.

An Ceann Comhairle

I told the Deputy earlier that I do not bow to threats from any side of the House. Is Deputy McCartan offering?

Mr. Keating

This issue will come up on every Order of Business. I put down a marker to the Taoiseach a few weeks ago——

Mr. Dukes

Were you here on Friday for the Order of Business?

Mr. Keating

I was here before you, Alan.

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy Keating persists in this disorderly conduct I shall have to ask him to leave the House.

Mr. McCartan

On the Order of Business, can I ask two questions of the Taoiseach. The first question relates to the report emanating from the European Parliament highlighting the fact that Ireland is one of two remaining countries that maintains a vagrancy law.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. McCartan

I am asking if the Taoiseach could indicate when he will bring before the House the promised legislation for the repeal of the Vagrancy Act, 1824.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should put down a question in relation to that matter.

Mr. McCartan

That was the first of two questions. I have a second question.

Mr. Keating

So had I.

Mr. McCartan

An undertaking was given by the Taoiseach's party representative, Mr. Fitzgerald, in the European Parliament to bring this legislation forward, so perhaps there is an answer to that question. Would the Taoiseach make time available for discussion in this House of the worrying developments that have taken place with regard to access to legal education in the law society? It appears that the law society are arbitrarily cutting back on the numbers to be admitted each year——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is taking liberty on the Order of Business in raising these matters.

Mr. McCartan

I understood that it was in order at this stage to inquire of the Government whether or not they have legislative proposals in the pipeline dealing with the Vagrancy Act, 1824, and, alternatively, whether the Taoiseach would give some time for discussion of these rather worrying developments.

An Ceann Comhairle

He may legitimately raise that question if the legislation he refers to was promised.

Mr. McCartan

It was: Mr. Gene Fitzgerald, MEP, indicated in the European Parliament——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, this is Dáil Éireann.

Mr. J. Bruton

Can I ask the Taoiseach if legislation is being prepared to ratify the European Patent Convention? Is the Taoiseach in a position to give me any such information today?

An Ceann Comhairle

I mentioned his name to follow you, Deputy.

Tomás Mac Giolla

In view of the fact that my Private Notice Question in regard to the closure of the ambulance factory of Noel Hanlon Limited, Longford, with the loss of more than 200 jobs was ruled out of order can I now raise it on the Adjournment?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Stagg

On the Order of Business can I ask the Taoiseach when the legislation promised by him in his statement on 29 May 1985 in The Irish Times to abolish the charges for local government services will be introduced in view of his very firm commitment to abolish the enabling legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not aware that legislation has been promised.

Mr. Stagg

In view of the promise the Taoiseach gave on 29 May 1985 when does he intend to introduce the legislation to abolish local charges?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am afraid the Deputy will have to find some other way of raising that matter.

Mr. Stagg

On the Order of Business you ruled that it must be promised legislation and the Taoiseach specifically promised legislation to abolish the legislation enabling local authorities——

Mr. S. Barrett

He was not the Taoiseach then; he had a whole list at that time.

Mr. Stagg

——to bring in charges for services. When does he intend to implement that promised legislation.

Mr. Shatter

The promises made before February are irrelevant.

Mr. Stagg

When does the Taoiseach intend to implement that promised legislation? I think I am entitled to a reply from the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not the responsibility of the Chair, Deputy.

Mr. Stagg

You fortified that point for me in your earlier replies to previous questions. This is promised legislation——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is not certain whether that legislation was promised by the Government.

Mr. Howlin

Maybe the Taoiseach will help, a Cheann Comhairle.

Mr. Stagg

The Taoiseach——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Stagg, please presume your seat; you have made your point.

Miss Kennedy

I want to ask the Taoiseach if he has any plans to resolve the row about Ireland's representation in the Council of Europe before the Summer Recess of the Dáil.

An Ceann Comhairle

It does not arise on the Order of Business.

Tomás Mac Giolla

In view of the fact that it is now 4.49 p.m. could I have a ruling as to whether the first section on the Order of Business in relation to the Finance Bill is now irrelevant?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I intend to proceed now with the business on the Order Paper.

Mr. Stagg

On the Order of Business, would the Taoiseach indicate to the House what action he intends to take on the establishment of an electoral boundaries commission in view of the fact that the previous attempt to set up such a commission was not finalised?

An Ceann Comhairle

It does not arise now.

Mr. Stagg

It should arise now.

An Ceann Comhairle

Item No. 7.