asked the Minister for Labour if he will consider introducing legislation to enable private industry to introduce worker participation systems; and if he will request the Irish Management Institute to promote this approach to management in their business.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Worker Participation Systems.
10.
I believe that a participative approach in firms has much to recommend it in helping to break up traditional "them" and "us" attitudes. I have on many occasions advocated the desirability of such an approach.
While I support maximum co-operation between employers and employees at the plant level, in the absence of an adequate consensus in the matter between employers and employees nationally, I do not feel that legislation is an appropriate response in the circumstances. As for the IMI, they are entirely independent in determining training policy and programme content.
Would the Minister indicate whether he would be in favour of pressing his colleagues in the European Community to further legislation in this area? After all, it is one which can increase productivity and encourage better working on the shop floor. Many of the countries in the Community have already structures which enable worker participation in private enterprise. Would he not consider pressing the matter at Community level?
We shall shortly have in the House the Bill on worker participation in the public sector. Any company in the private sector can go ahead with their own arrangements. The Fifth, the Vredeling Directive, is at draft stage and I would support that. The reason why I do not think at this stage one should go ahead is that the advisory report on worker participation is divided on what should happen. Until there is more awareness and more people are in support of the idea of worker participation in the private area, we shall not make much progress. There are some very successful schemes at present in operation in some of the larger companies in the private sector, so the idea is growing. At this stage I do not think that we should legislate.
Is it not true to say that the group divided, not so much on whether there should be legislation as on whether there should be bodies or organisations set up to aid the move towards worker participation? There is nothing to prevent the Minister from producing legislation which shows the way forward in this area. As an adjunct to this, I believe that the Irish Management Institute is a proper vehicle to introduce the idea into management. That is where it must emanate from. In private industry it cannot come from the workers. It will have to come from management.
I am not ruling out the idea of being involved in this. At present the Irish Productivity Council are the organisation taking the lead in participation, particularly in the public sector. If we are to get participation in the private sector, the last way to get it is by legislation. There is a programme. The Department of Labour for a number of years have been actively involved in promoting worker participation in the public and private sectors. I am taking the lead, as Minister for Labour, by bringing this into about 40 State organisations. It is hoped that that will set the example for further companies. I do not want to say no to the private sector companies to follow.
In response to Deputy Colley, the Minister referred to the draft Vredeling Directive. Did I hear correctly that he said he supported that directive?
What I am saying is that the discussion on worker participation will again come up when that directive is discussed.
Whether accidentally or otherwise, the Minister commented, in reply to Deputy Colley, that he supported that directive.
No, I did not.
The Minister may not have meant to do so.
Does the Minister not support the directive? Does he have any views on that directive?
This is another question, is it not?
It was the Minister who introduced that subject.
That is not the point. The Chair deals with the question before him on the Order Paper, and not what the Minister or anybody else says.
Could I ask the Minister if he would accept that the most substantial advance that there has been in this area in recent years has been with the legislation through successive Finance Bills to encourage wider share ownership? Would he and his colleagues, the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Finance, promote the attractiveness of that scheme as a way of breaking down the "them" and "us" barriers referred to by Deputy Colley?
There must be incentives.
There are incentives.
To make the point clear to Deputy Birmingham, what I am saying on the Vredeling Directive is that it would have implications for this country. Discussions on worker participation will arise.
I shall be fascinated to read the Official Report on this.
I shall have to correct it, then. My own view is that the work at present going on in a large number of firms to promote worker participation is both good for job creation and for the individual firms. Whatever assistance can be given will be given. There have been no requests or demands for State support in the areas, but many of the major companies are going ahead with this.
There are substantial tax incentives for share schemes.
Apart from that, I do not want to start naming individual companies but there are people now involved full time in a number of the major companies in the city in promoting worker participation. In the private sector, that is the road to follow. In the public sector, the legislation which it is hoped that we shall have in this House very shortly will assist.